Containment What will happen when Barb dies?

If Chris is found capable of standing trial and found innocent, (both very lofty assumptions btw) I doubt he'll be returning to 14 Branchland due to the shit he committed.

Pretty much nobody is found "innocent" in a criminal trial, they are found "not guilty". The difference is that "innocent" means you proved innocence, "not guilty" means the state failed to prove guilt.

Since the state is under the burden of proof, and cannot punish without proof of guilt, there is no need to prove someone innocent. There are exceptions like a writ of actual innocence, but those are rare, and are generally only needed to exonerate someone who was previously found guilty (because the burden of proof is reversed). A writ of actual innocence can also, rarely, be used in an associated civil lawsuit.

It's extremely, extremely doubtful that Chris will be found not guilty.

Also doubtful, but much less so, is that the charges will be dropped. This is different from a not guilty verdict -- it is the complete lack of a verdict.
 
If she dies while Chirs is in jail I can't even imagine where he'll go when he gets out.
Group home, homeless, or dead. And that's if he survives to see release. There's really not a lot of great ways for it to end for him now (not that there were any before, but this saga makes everything worse for him)
 
Group home, homeless, or dead. And that's if he survives to see release. There's really not a lot of great ways for it to end for him now (not that there were any before, but this saga makes everything worse for him)
Honestly, him going to some kind of psychiatric group home would definitely be the best way this could end. He'd be safe from trolls, he wouldn't have to deal with the responsibilities he's clearly not mentally equipped to handle, and he could probably be diagnosed with any other mental disorders he most likely has.

Probably her grave to "crack open a cold one" just for old times sake
Is this "Cold One" his frozen semen from the fridge?
 
There are exceptions like a writ of actual innocence, but those are rare, and are generally only needed to exonerate someone who was previously found guilty (because the burden of proof is reversed). A writ of actual innocence can also, rarely, be used in an associated civil lawsuit.
Apparently this is fairly recent in Virginia, although something in the nature of a prerogative writ like coram nobis would probably have been previously available in the few extraordinary cases where such a writ can issue. Any such writ will have to be backed up by nearly indisputable facts, such as DNA evidence conclusively proving someone else guilty of the crime, the victim actually being alive, etc.
 
Pretty much nobody is found "innocent" in a criminal trial, they are found "not guilty". The difference is that "innocent" means you proved innocence, "not guilty" means the state failed to prove guilt.
It's the same shit, different wording. Regardless, he's a damned son of a bitch, ain't no two ways about it.
 
It's the same shit, different wording. Regardless, he's a damned son of a bitch, ain't no two ways about it.

It's a very significant difference. "Not guilty" just means the state failed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It makes no statement that you *didn't* do the crime, just that they couldn't prove it sufficiently.

For instance in the OJ trial, he was found not guilty, but then in a civil suit he was found liable for the deaths. If instead he had been proven innocent, he would not be liable.

Being proven innocent also protects you against those who libel and slander against you. If you are found not guilty, people are still free to say that you did the crime and ruin your life. Proving yourself innocent allows you to shut down public accusations. (Except for those couched in reservations like "I believe the evidence is incorrect".)
 
It's a very significant difference. "Not guilty" just means the state failed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It makes no statement that you *didn't* do the crime, just that they couldn't prove it sufficiently.

For instance in the OJ trial, he was found not guilty, but then in a civil suit he was found liable for the deaths. If instead he had been proven innocent, he would not be liable.

Being proven innocent also protects you against those who libel and slander against you. If you are found not guilty, people are still free to say that you did the crime and ruin your life. Proving yourself innocent allows you to shut down public accusations. (Except for those couched in reservations like "I believe the evidence is incorrect".)
Just so I'm sure I understand this correctly: Chris would be found not guilty if, hypothetically, there was no proof he porked Barb, and would be found innocent if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt he was physically incapable of porking Barb?
(Disclaimer because only 10% or so of people here can read: I am aware there is plenty of evidence for Chris' crime, this is just a dumb example)
 
Just so I'm sure I understand this correctly: Chris would be found not guilty if, hypothetically, there was no proof he porked Barb, and would be found innocent if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt he was physically incapable of porking Barb?
(Disclaimer because only 10% or so of people here can read: I am aware there is plenty of evidence for Chris' crime, this is just a dumb example)
Yes, that example would be correct. Essentially it's like this:

Guilty = court proves you did the crime.
Not guilty = court can't prove you did the crime but also can't prove you didn't do it.
Innocent = court proves you didn't do the crime
 
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It's a very significant difference. "Not guilty" just means the state failed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It makes no statement that you *didn't* do the crime, just that they couldn't prove it sufficiently.

For instance in the OJ trial, he was found not guilty, but then in a civil suit he was found liable for the deaths. If instead he had been proven innocent, he would not be liable.

Being proven innocent also protects you against those who libel and slander against you. If you are found not guilty, people are still free to say that you did the crime and ruin your life. Proving yourself innocent allows you to shut down public accusations. (Except for those couched in reservations like "I believe the evidence is incorrect".)
It's hard to prove a negative.
 
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Yes, that example would be correct. Essentially it's like this:

Guilty = court proves you did the crime.
Not guilty = court can't prove you did the crime but also can't prove you didn't do it.
Innocent = court proves you didn't do the crime

A clarification though, ordinarily criminal court is not interested in whether or not you are innocent, only whether or not you are guilty. You don't get an "innocent" verdict in a criminal trial, because you are already presumed to be innocent.

Being declared by the court to be innocent is a separate procedure, and is usually only done when circumstances require it. That is, a person usually only goes through the effort when they are faced with a situation where the presumption of innocence does not apply (appeals after a guilty verdict, or civil cases that involve acts that would otherwise be criminal). It's usually not done for civil cases as it's easier just to fight the civil case with the same evidence. It's more useful if you're expecting a multitude of civil cases, and want one piece of paper to shoot them all down quickly.

Thus, an innocent ruling is almost exclusively used for the purpose of overturning previous convictions.

For instance, let's say you were convicted for a crime you didn't commit. You appeal it, but the judge finds no problems with the trial, and doesn't declare a mistrial. i.e. the court did its job properly with the evidence it had. Your attorney, however, found evidence that definitively shows you didn't commit the crime. This evidence just was not available when the trial happened (if it was, and was improperly denied from being used in the trial, then a mistrial would be declared)

Or perhaps you took a guilty or an Alford plea to avoid a trial, because the evidence wasn't known of at the time. A mistrial would not be declared unless it was discovered that the prosecution intentionally hid the evidence from you.

The judge agrees with this and orders you released on the time you've served if it's within his power to resentence you to a shorter sentence. Or, he may agree that you didn't commit the crime, but mandatory sentencing length doesn't allow him to release you. Either way, you are *still* convicted of that crime, and you must go through a hearing process to be declared innocent in order for your name to be cleared and the crime to be removed from your record. Since you are not on trial for the crime, you do not have the presumption of innocence, and instead must prove your innocence to the court.

Scots law (i.e. in Scotland) *does* have a three-verdict system. "Guilty", "Not Proven", and "Not Guilty". In this case, "Not Guilty" is functionally closer to a ruling of innocence in the US. "Not Proven" is actually rather unpopular, but if they remove it, it will mean that the "Not Guilty" ruling will become more like the one in the rest of the western world.
 
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It's a very significant difference. "Not guilty" just means the state failed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It makes no statement that you *didn't* do the crime, just that they couldn't prove it sufficiently.

For instance in the OJ trial, he was found not guilty, but then in a civil suit he was found liable for the deaths. If instead he had been proven innocent, he would not be liable.

Being proven innocent also protects you against those who libel and slander against you. If you are found not guilty, people are still free to say that you did the crime and ruin your life. Proving yourself innocent allows you to shut down public accusations. (Except for those couched in reservations like "I believe the evidence is incorrect".)
Fair enough
 
A clarification though, ordinarily criminal court is not interested in whether or not you are innocent, only whether or not you are guilty. You don't get an "innocent" verdict in a criminal trial, because you are already presumed to be innocent.

Being declared by the court to be innocent is a separate procedure, and is usually only done when circumstances require it. That is, a person usually only goes through the effort when they are faced with a situation where the presumption of innocence does not apply (appeals after a guilty verdict, or civil cases that involve acts that would otherwise be criminal). It's usually not done for civil cases as it's easier just to fight the civil case with the same evidence. It's more useful if you're expecting a multitude of civil cases, and want one piece of paper to shoot them all down quickly.

Thus, an innocent ruling is almost exclusively used for the purpose of overturning previous convictions.

For instance, let's say you were convicted for a crime you didn't commit. You appeal it, but the judge finds no problems with the trial, and doesn't declare a mistrial. i.e. the court did its job properly with the evidence it had. Your attorney, however, found evidence that definitively shows you didn't commit the crime. This evidence just was not available when the trial happened (if it was, and was improperly denied from being used in the trial, then a mistrial would be declared)

Or perhaps you took a guilty or an Alford plea to avoid a trial, because the evidence wasn't known of at the time. A mistrial would not be declared unless it was discovered that the prosecution intentionally hid the evidence from you.

The judge agrees with this and orders you released on the time you've served if it's within his power to resentence you to a shorter sentence. Or, he may agree that you didn't commit the crime, but mandatory sentencing length doesn't allow him to release you. Either way, you are *still* convicted of that crime, and you must go through a hearing process to be declared innocent in order for your name to be cleared and the crime to be removed from your record. Since you are not on trial for the crime, you do not have the presumption of innocence, and instead must prove your innocence to the court.

Scots law (i.e. in Scotland) *does* have a three-verdict system. "Guilty", "Not Proven", and "Not Guilty". In this case, "Not Guilty" is functionally closer to a ruling of innocence in the US. "Not Proven" is actually rather unpopular, but if they remove it, it will mean that the "Not Guilty" ruling will become more like the one in the rest of the western world.
Jesus Law is ridiculously complex, Im amazed how well-versed you are In its workings. Well done
 
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