SCOTUS to Overturn Roe V Wade according to draft opinion obtained by Politico - And here we go

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The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.
The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v. Casey – that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”


Deliberations on controversial cases have in the past been fluid. Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate and major decisions can be subject to multiple drafts and vote-trading, sometimes until just days before a decision is unveiled. The court’s holding will not be final until it is published, likely in the next two months.
The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. It’s unclear if there have been subsequent changes to the draft.
No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. The unprecedented revelation is bound to intensify the debate over what was already the most controversial case on the docket this term.
The draft opinion offers an extraordinary window into the justices’ deliberations in one of the most consequential cases before the court in the last five decades. Some court-watchers predicted that the conservative majority would slice away at abortion rights without flatly overturning a 49-year-old precedent. The draft shows that the court is looking to reject Roe’s logic and legal protections.
Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division.”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.


The three Democratic-appointed justices – Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan – are working on one or more dissents, according to the person. How Chief Justice John Roberts will ultimately vote, and whether he will join an already written opinion or draft his own, is unclear.
The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10. If the Alito draft is adopted, it would rule in favor of Mississippi in the closely watched case over that state’s attempt to ban most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
A Supreme Court spokesperson declined to comment or make another representative of the court available to answer questions about the draft document.
POLITICO received a copy of the draft opinion from a person familiar with the court’s proceedings in the Mississippi case along with other details supporting the authenticity of the document. The draft opinion runs 98 pages, including a 31-page appendix of historical state abortion laws. The document is replete with citations to previous court decisions, books and other authorities, and includes 118 footnotes. The appearances and timing of this draft are consistent with court practice.
The disclosure of Alito’s draft majority opinion – a rare breach of Supreme Court secrecy and tradition around its deliberations – comes as all sides in the abortion debate are girding for the ruling. Speculation about the looming decision has been intense since the December oral arguments indicated a majority was inclined to support the Mississippi law.
Under longstanding court procedures, justices hold preliminary votes on cases shortly after argument and assign a member of the majority to write a draft of the court’s opinion. The draft is often amended in consultation with other justices, and in some cases the justices change their votes altogether, creating the possibility that the current alignment on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization could change.
The chief justice typically assigns majority opinions when he is in the majority. When he is not, that decision is typically made by the most senior justice in the majority.

‘Exceptionally weak’​

A George W. Bush appointee who joined the court in 2006, Alito argues that the 1973 abortion rights ruling was an ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and unwisely sought to wrench the contentious issue away from the political branches of government.
Alito’s draft ruling would overturn a decision by the New Orleans-based 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that found the Mississippi law ran afoul of Supreme Court precedent by seeking to effectively ban abortions before viability.

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Roe’s “survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant to the plainly incorrect,” Alito continues, adding that its reasoning was “exceptionally weak,” and that the original decision has had “damaging consequences.”
“The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions,” Alito writes.
Alito approvingly quotes a broad range of critics of the Roe decision. He also points to liberal icons such as the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, who at certain points in their careers took issue with the reasoning in Roe or its impact on the political process.
Alito’s skewering of Roe and the endorsement of at least four other justices for that unsparing critique is also a measure of the court’s rightward turn in recent decades. Roe was decided 7-2 in 1973, with five Republican appointees joining two justices nominated by Democratic presidents.
The overturning of Roe would almost immediately lead to stricter limits on abortion access in large swaths of the South and Midwest, with about half of the states set to immediately impose broad abortion bans. Any state could still legally allow the procedure.
“The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion,” the draft concludes. “Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.”
The draft contains the type of caustic rhetorical flourishes Alito is known for and that has caused Roberts, his fellow Bush appointee, some discomfort in the past.
At times, Alito’s draft opinion takes an almost mocking tone as it skewers the majority opinion in Roe, written by Justice Harry Blackmun, a Richard Nixon appointee who died in 1999.
Roe expressed the ‘feel[ing]’ that the Fourteenth Amendment was the provision that did the work, but its message seemed to be that the abortion right could be found somewhere in the Constitution and that specifying its exact location was not of paramount importance,” Alito writes.
Alito declares that one of the central tenets of Roe, the “viability” distinction between fetuses not capable of living outside the womb and those which can, “makes no sense.”
In several passages, he describes doctors and nurses who terminate pregnancies as “abortionists.”
When Roberts voted with liberal jurists in 2020 to block a Louisiana law imposing heavier regulations on abortion clinics, his solo concurrence used the more neutral term “abortion providers.” In contrast, Justice Clarence Thomas used the word “abortionist” 25 times in a solo dissent in the same case.


Alito’s use of the phrase “egregiously wrong” to describe Roe echoes language Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart used in December in defending his state’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The phrase was also contained in an opinion Kavanaugh wrote as part of a 2020 ruling that jury convictions in criminal cases must be unanimous.
In that opinion, Kavanaugh labeled two well-known Supreme Court decisions “egregiously wrong when decided”: the 1944 ruling upholding the detention of Japanese Americans during World War II, Korematsu v. United States, and the 1896 decision that blessed racial segregation under the rubric of “separate but equal,” Plessy v. Ferguson.
The high court has never formally overturned Korematsu, but did repudiate the decision in a 2018 ruling by Roberts that upheld then-President Donald Trump’s travel ban policy.

The legacy of Plessy v. Ferguson​

Plessy remained the law of the land for nearly six decades until the court overturned it with the Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation ruling in 1954.
Quoting Kavanaugh, Alito writes of Plessy: “It was ‘egregiously wrong,’ on the day it was decided.”
Alito’s draft opinion includes, in small type, a list of about two pages’ worth of decisions in which the justices overruled prior precedents – in many instances reaching results praised by liberals.
The implication that allowing states to outlaw abortion is on par with ending legal racial segregation has been hotly disputed. But the comparison underscores the conservative justices’ belief that Roe is so flawed that the justices should disregard their usual hesitations about overturning precedent and wholeheartedly renounce it.
Alito’s draft opinion ventures even further into this racially sensitive territory by observing in a footnote that some early proponents of abortion rights also had unsavory views in favor of eugenics.
“Some such supporters have been motivated by a desire to suppress the size of the African American population,” Alito writes. “It is beyond dispute that Roe has had that demographic effect. A highly disproportionate percentage of aborted fetuses are black.”
Alito writes that by raising the point he isn’t casting aspersions on anyone. “For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” he writes.
Alito also addresses concern about the impact the decision could have on public discourse. “We cannot allow our decisions to be affected by any extraneous influences such as concern about the public’s reaction to our work,” Alito writes. “We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision.”


In the main opinion in the 1992 Casey decision, Justices Sandra Day O’Connor, Anthony Kennedy and Davis Souter warned that the court would pay a “terrible price” for overruling Roe, despite criticism of the decision from some in the public and the legal community.
“While it has engendered disapproval, it has not been unworkable,” the three justices wrote then. “An entire generation has come of age free to assume Roe‘s concept of liberty in defining the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions; no erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe‘s central holding a doctrinal remnant.”
When Dobbs was argued in December, Roberts seemed out of sync with the other conservative justices, as he has been in a number of cases including one challenging the Affordable Care Act.
At the argument session last fall, Roberts seemed to be searching for a way to uphold Mississippi’s 15-week ban without completely abandoning the Roe framework.
“Viability, it seems to me, doesn’t have anything to do with choice. But, if it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?” Roberts asked during the arguments. “The thing that is at issue before us today is 15 weeks.”

Nods to conservative colleagues​

While Alito’s draft opinion doesn’t cater much to Roberts’ views, portions of it seem intended to address the specific interests of other justices. One passage argues that social attitudes toward out-of-wedlock pregnancies “have changed drastically” since the 1970s and that increased demand for adoption makes abortion less necessary.
Those points dovetail with issues that Barrett – a Trump appointee and the court’s newest member – raised at the December arguments. She suggested laws allowing people to surrender newborn babies on a no-questions-asked basis mean carrying a pregnancy to term doesn’t oblige one to engage in child rearing.
“Why don’t the safe haven laws take care of that problem?” asked Barrett, who adopted two of her seven children.
Much of Alito’s draft is devoted to arguing that widespread criminalization of abortion during the 19th and early 20th century belies the notion that a right to abortion is implied in the Constitution.
The conservative justice attached to his draft a 31-page appendix listing laws passed to criminalize abortion during that period. Alito claims “an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment…from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.”


“Until the latter part of the 20th century, there was no support in American law for a constitutional right to obtain an abortion. Zero. None. No state constitutional provision had recognized such a right,” Alito adds.
Alito’s draft argues that rights protected by the Constitution but not explicitly mentioned in it – so-called unenumerated rights – must be strongly rooted in U.S. history and tradition. That form of analysis seems at odds with several of the court’s recent decisions, including many of its rulings backing gay rights.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision....”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.
“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”
The Supreme Court remains one of Washington’s most secretive institutions, priding itself on protecting the confidentiality of its internal deliberations.
“At the Supreme Court, those who know don’t talk, and those who talk don’t know,” Ginsburg was fond of saying.
That tight-lipped reputation has eroded somewhat in recent decades due to a series of books by law clerks, law professors and investigative journalists. Some of these authors clearly had access to draft opinions such as the one obtained by POLITICO, but their books emerged well after the cases in question were resolved.
The justices held their final arguments of the current term on Wednesday. The court has set a series of sessions over the next two months to release rulings in its still-unresolved cases, including the Mississippi abortion case.
 
Hererra went to a hospital. It was self induced; she was still charged under state laws because certain state laws view even self induced abortions as murder, vs one taken in a clinic. Medical professionals in the Texas hospital she was at reported her to the authorities, and she was held on a $500,000 bond.
Doesn't matter if the charges were dropped. She was near the US- Mexico border.
She got an apology, yet she was still charged.
Both of those links say themselves that the details are "unclear"- including gestational age and everything else.

And lots of people get charged with a crime they didn't commit, then the charges are dropped. It's unfortunate they had to go through that, but how is this somehow worse than say, a guy arrested for a murder it turns out he didn't commit- especially since it looks like she actually did the crime?
 
So she had 2 abortions by the time she was 21? The fact she is so skittish about this topic and they've never discussed this in detail in 13 years is crazy. I simply do not believe she hasn't aborted one of his kids.
I kinda feel bad for her. Yes, she killed her children. But it seems that her guilt is gonna catch up with her in the worst of ways.
 
I kinda feel bad for her. Yes, she killed her children. But it seems that her guilt is gonna catch up with her in the worst of ways.

Our shared religious belief is that she will go to hell, which is definitely worse than being dumped by her boyfriend.

Incidentally, why do you feel bad for her?
 
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i actually went through the bill and basically what it does is make it so the fetus is to be considered a person under the law, meaning that killing it can get you charged with homicide.
so, what other parts of the law apply to homicide? this one, for instance:




an ectopic pregnancy absolutely constitutes an imminent danger of losing your life or receiving great bodily harm, and removing (killing) the fetus is absolutely necessary to save yourself from that danger. airtight case of self-defense.

so no, you will not be sentenced to death (or anything else) for terminating your ectopic pregnancy in louisiana.​
Yes, but the bill doesn't have any exemptions for it. The 'justified' part only applies to those who forced a woman to get an abortion. It doesn't mention medical emergencies; if it did, it should have made it clearer or added an amendment.
Both of those links say themselves that the details are "unclear"- including gestational age and everything else.

And lots of people get charged with a crime they didn't commit, then the charges are dropped. It's unfortunate they had to go through that, but how is this somehow worse than say, a guy arrested for a murder it turns out he didn't commit- especially since it looks like she actually did the crime?
Say it was a late term abortion. Say she dumped a baby in a dumpster. I would agree that what she did was bury viable baby. But if it was during a non viable stage, she was charged under a self induced, unsafe abortion. They still viewed it as murder. Let's put it in the ball park of, say, 1-2nd trimester.
 
Yes, but the bill doesn't have any exemptions for it. The 'justified' part only applies to those who forced a woman to get an abortion. It doesn't mention medical emergencies; if it did, it should have made it clearer or added an amendment.

Say it was a late term abortion. Say she dumped a baby in a dumpster. I would agree that what she did was bury viable baby. But if it was during a non viable stage, she was charged under a self induced, unsafe abortion. They still viewed it as murder. Let's put it in the ball park of, say, 1-2nd trimester.
I'm wondering just how fucked up what she did had to be for a Texas hospital employee to call the cops on her. If you know any medical workers, especially in down-at-heel areas, you'll have some idea for just how out-of-this-world insane and disgusting shit would have to be to even get their attention.
 
I kinda feel bad for her. Yes, she killed her children. But it seems that her guilt is gonna catch up with her in the worst of ways.
You know reddit is going to convince her to dump this guy who stayed with her for 13 years. I bet she will be a cat lady in no time. Hopefully the guy finds a good woman who won't kill his kids.
 
You know reddit is going to convince her to dump this guy who stayed with her for 13 years. I bet she will be a cat lady in no time. Hopefully the guy finds a good woman who won't kill his kids.
If she killed his kids, he should do a lot more than dump her. Or at least I'd do a lot more than that...anyway, that may be true...but eventually she will realize
 
I can't imagine how she will cope when she comes to the realization that she killed her children. It's gonna hit her like a ton of bricks.

She’s had thirteen years. I honestly don’t think she’s that bothered. Women know what they are doing when they go for abortions. It is an exercise of agency. Some people do express abortion regret, but…. The frequency of abortions, including repeat abortions, recorded in western countries isn’t compatible with a lot of people feeling real cut up over the whole affair.

You don’t have to feel bad for her. She doesn’t. She feels some type of way about finding out that her perpetual boyfriend would be pissed if he knew she had had previous abortions.
 
Ben Sasse weighs in on Peppermint Patty's press conference from earlier:

1651803625378.png
 
Yes, but the bill doesn't have any exemptions for it. The 'justified' part only applies to those who forced a woman to get an abortion. It doesn't mention medical emergencies; if it did, it should have made it clearer or added an amendment.

other abortion laws have specific exceptions listed because they treat abotion as its own crime. this louisiana bill doesn't do that, instead it makes existing homicide law apply to the unborn fetus, and self defense provisions are part of that existing homicide law.
 
It isn't hyperbole when Louisiana states that it plans on sending any woman who gets an abortion, even if it is actually a medical emergency - and this includes ectopic pregnancies - as murder, full murder, and that carries the death penalty. There are no exceptions whatsoever in the bill for rape, incest, or medical emergencies which even Texas and Oklahoma do.

It isn't 'lies and hyperbole'. You're just going to see dead women, even those who wanted those kids.

Alito's opinion alluded to private decisions being void, include homosexual activity in your own home, and it is that precedent that opens the door for the government or the state to decide what to do with your body. It's cute to use that 'my body my choice' thing for vaccines while joking about women dying from abortions, but it isn't when the state or government decides you aren't worthy of life because of a personal medical decision.
That's complete and utter bullshit. None of those procedures are considered an Abortion for purposes of any statute in the US. The only people that even present those as something resembling abortion are in my experience a remarkably small subset of often Catholic Lunatics long disavowed by the Catholic Church. If the fetus is not viable or has already expired and is endangering the mother it is not considered an Elective Abortion. Ectopic Pregnancies do not require an elective abortion. They require emergency surgery. Placental Separation with the women bleeding internally requires emergency surgery. This is not the same thing as "abortion". And only a complete idiot or a bad actor attempts to equate them or imply women will be left to suffer from them.
 
other abortion laws have specific exceptions listed because they treat abotion as its own crime. this louisiana bill doesn't do that, instead it makes existing homicide law apply to the unborn fetus, and self defense provisions are part of that existing homicide law.
The issue there is what would be considered self defense, as it's vague as hell. The exceptions for the murder charge aren't listed and I'm wondering if there will be any amendments to this. If not, this is one of the vaguest anti abortion bills drafted by a state yet. At least with Texas and Oklahoma they have exceptions and wrote it in the provisions.

@RodgerDodger Sure, but the bill doesn't have exceptions or state that those medically necessary procedures are fine. It just has a vague protection clause that mentions force, but little else.
If it is just a minority holding those beliefs, it certainly doesn't appear that way in this context.

@Leon Breitling Maybe, but it doesn't explicitly say that and it should, because otherwise it would count as a 'justifiable homicide'. So they would still view it as murder, with the penalties therein, but it would not be as severe as first degree murder.
 
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Oral and anal sex are concepts that exist, that don't lead to a baby. Safer than a condom, birth control, or abortion.
This is faggot logic.

Fucking an asshole just makes your dick smell like doodoo. Turbosluts have learned how to use an enema but most women don't wash out their rectum. Too much anal also causes prolapse and incontinence.

Oral only feels good if your girl is really good at it.

Bottom line: vaginal sex feels the best and if you disagree, you might be a little bit gay and in denial.
 
After having decreed that the "b" in "black people" be capitalized while explicitly keeping "white people" lower-cased, the Associated Press has now put out the new progressive Democratic strategy in light of the latest rabbling over abortion:
1651803598453.png

So there you have it, "women" wins. "Pregnant/Birthing people" will now be restricted to articles specifically about trannies.

I tried looking up the source directly but it appears that the AP style guide is a paid subscription service.
 
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