Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Kulee Baba]

I just started this video but I'm glad Rick is bringing attention to the different versions of the OT.

It's crazy when you realize how many times the OT (and the PT) have been changed over the years. There's no "true" version of the OT, just version with more or less changes. That's why people complaining about not getting the "unaltered" version of the OT on blu ray never made sense to me. Depending on when and where you saw ANH, ESB, and ROTJ, parts of those films are radically different. They just want what they remember from their individual childhoods in an attempt to recapture that feeling that they can never have again.

As a person who has happily purchased Criterion Editions of classic films and cherishes gamer passion projects like "Crispy/Chocolate Doom" I just think there's something worthwhile when it comes to preserving the original version. And frankly the more versions I can get the better. Something I cherish in my film collection is my Blu-Ray 30th Anniversay Edition of Blade Runner, which comes with every major version of the film. I also love that my Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays have both the original versions of the show along with the updated special effects from the 2000s. And I love that I can choose between watching The Lord of the Rings Theatrical or Extended Edition.

It's not just that Special Editions changed things so "IT'S BAD." Some of the changes were alright. The problem is that Lucas made changes and additions that were bafflingly STUPID. And there's so many examples, adding Jabba back into ANH was unnecessary since the Greedo scene already tells the viewer what's going on between Han and Jabba. There's the bad cheesy CGI most notable in the Jedi Rocks music number in ROTJ. But what pisses me off the most and fucks the story significantly is how Lucas altered the key scene where Vader talks to the Emperor in ESB.

Did you notice the dialogue change? Because I sure did. In the new versions of ESB it's now Palpatine who informs Vader that Luke Skywalker is his son! And Vader is now so stupid he says "How is this possible." to which Palpatine in this new version says "Search your feelings, you will know it to be true."

This fucks up the character of Darth Vader so much, it means that at the start of the film when Vader mentions Skywalker to his underling he didn't know that Luke was his son. Is Skywalker just a generic surname that lots of people have? He didn't put any thought at how peculiar it was that Obi-Wan decided to go into the Death Star with a young force sensitive boy that shared his last name and was the right age to be Vader's biological child? And finally I just hate that how now Vader in the series most emotional setpiece was now copying the words of Palpatine.

Now look I agree, Disney for the time being will never properly release the original theatrical cuts. And fans like me who notice and find significant faults with changes like this are in a vast minority. But don't strawman OT Purists into a silly argument that we're just so mad over additional rocks over R2-D2 and Obi-Wans new scream. Lucas damaged the character of Darth Vader and for no damn reason.

EDIT: I got to the point where this Rick guy tries to rationalize the new Vader/Palpatine scene. He suggests that Vader is feigning ignorance to Palpatine. This is a straight up asspull of an explanation, you shouldn't have to make unconfirmed fan theories especially when the original version is clear cut and straightforward.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

This fucks up the character of Darth Vader so much, it means that at the start of the film when Vader mentions Skywalker to his underling he didn't know that Luke was his son. Is Skywalker just a generic surname that lots of people have? He didn't put any thought at how peculiar it was that Obi-Wan decided to go into the Death Star with a young force sensitive boy that shared his last name and was the right age to be Vader's biological child? And finally I just hate that how now Vader in the series most emotional setpiece was now copying the words of Palpatine.

The name "Skywalker" was described by George Lucas to be a common name. There's even Skywalker wine, and the fact that it was the surname of a couple of slaves......well, that just seals it.

 

[Kulee Baba]

The name "Skywalker" was described by George Lucas to be a common name. There's even Skywalker wine, and the fact that it was the surname of a couple of slaves......well, that just seals it.

Even with that being a reasonable lore detail I still don't like how it effects Vader's character. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi is about Vader and his desire to bring his son into his evil grasp. The force and simple deduction should have led Vader to knowing without Palpatine telling him anything.

Also it's weird that Palpatine says Luke Skywalker is the son of Anakin. Now even the bad guys run under the "a certain point of view" logic?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Even with that being a reasonable lore detail I still don't like how it effects Vader's character. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi is about Vader and his desire to bring his son into his evil grasp. The force and simple deduction should have led Vader to knowing without Palpatine telling him anything.

Not really. With all the people named Skywalker running around, obviously, more than a few would have the Force. Vader would know, he is one of them.

Also it's weird that Palpatine says Luke Skywalker is the son of Anakin. Now even the bad guys run under the "a certain point of view" logic?

Of course. Vader did say that the name Anakin meant nothing to him.

 

[Michael Wade]

The thing with Rogue One is that I really would like to know the full story on what happened and see the film Edwards originally intended to make and based on the clips we saw did in fact make. What fuckery did they pull and what was changed.

Just go back and look at that first trailer for it that had the rebel pilot prisoners being led through the streets and scenes of beach combat with that big white furred alien. What was that film?

They never will release a behind the scenes book because the true story of what happened cant be revealed.

I see and hear about this kind of shit happening all the time when it comes to creative vision, just look at the synder cut. Hell I like rogue one and id like to see what they cut out. I remember hearing vader had a couple alternate scenes and less of a presence besides an opening flashback of him sabering some dudes.

The worst offender has to be rise of skywalker...... I know that dam thing has like 3 alternate cuts. One at least WORSE then the version we got.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

As a person who has happily purchased Criterion Editions of classic films and cherishes gamer passion projects like "Crispy/Chocolate Doom" I just think there's something worthwhile when it comes to preserving the original version. And frankly the more versions I can get the better. Something I cherish in my film collection is my Blu-Ray 30th Anniversay Edition of Blade Runner, which comes with every major version of the film. I also love that my Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays have both the original versions of the show along with the updated special effects from the 2000s. And I love that I can choose between watching The Lord of the Rings Theatrical or Extended Edition.

It's not just that Special Editions changed things so "IT'S BAD." Some of the changes were alright. The problem is that Lucas made changes and additions that were bafflingly STUPID. And there's so many examples, adding Jabba back into ANH was unnecessary since the Greedo scene already tells the viewer what's going on between Han and Jabba. There's the bad cheesy CGI most notable in the Jedi Rocks music number in ROTJ. But what pisses me off the most and fucks the story significantly is how Lucas altered the key scene where Vader talks to the Emperor in ESB.

Did you notice the dialogue change? Because I sure did. In the new versions of ESB it's now Palpatine who informs Vader that Luke Skywalker is his son! And Vader is now so stupid he says "How is this possible." to which Palpatine in this new version says "Search your feelings, you will know it to be true."

This fucks up the character of Darth Vader so much, it means that at the start of the film when Vader mentions Skywalker to his underling he didn't know that Luke was his son. Is Skywalker just a generic surname that lots of people have? He didn't put any thought at how peculiar it was that Obi-Wan decided to go into the Death Star with a young force sensitive boy that shared his last name and was the right age to be Vader's biological child? And finally I just hate that how now Vader in the series most emotional setpiece was now copying the words of Palpatine.

Now look I agree, Disney for the time being will never properly release the original theatrical cuts. And fans like me who notice and find significant faults with changes like this are in a vast minority. But don't strawman OT Purists into a silly argument that we're just so mad over additional rocks over R2-D2 and Obi-Wans new scream. Lucas damaged the character of Darth Vader and for no damn reason.

EDIT: I got to the point where this Rick guy tries to rationalize the new Vader/Palpatine scene. He suggests that Vader is feigning ignorance to Palpatine. This is a straight up asspull of an explanation, you shouldn't have to make unconfirmed fan theories especially when the original version is clear cut and straightforward.

I just love Robot Chicken’s version where Vader suddenly goes “what a second…” and realizes Palpatine lord to him.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

Since Obi might end with the Black chick being the hero, what the fuck is going to happen with "Ahsoka"?

She's going to ascend to Godhood and take the Lightside Goddess's place and probably somehow end up saving Rey from Ochi or some crap.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

The name "Skywalker" was described by George Lucas to be a common name.

Where?

 

[Sneeds_Sniggerly]

She's going to ascend to Godhood and take the Lightside Goddess's place and probably somehow end up saving Rey from Ochi or some crap.

YAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS QUEEN SLAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I think his obsession with wolves was the biggest dead giveaway that he had some form of tism. Even his obsession with Ahsoka seems to mainly stem from his desire to see her horns as 'symbolic' wolf ears.
View attachment 3264551
Even retconning Togruta horn growth to better express his desire to make them wolf-like. I mean just look at the man's office and twitter.

https://www.comicon.com/2017/10/31/dave-filoni-on-his-fascination-with-wolves-and-star-wars-rebels-return-to-lothal/

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-10994752
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-10995717
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-11080195
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...rise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-6048222
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-11450032
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-11104330

Nothing but drawings of wolves, and his favorite movie and book was Never Cry Wolf by Marley Fowat, who aside from the wolf-obsessed narrative was also infamous for his autobiography describing his youth of sexual experimentation with dogs and the neighbor boys, and retconning souls into wolves, retconning the afterlife into wolves, retconning the creation story into wolves, retconning the heart of the universe into wolves or making it so wolves taught man how to survive and use the Force.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/star-w...ise-of-skywalker-spoilers.32492/post-11450032

View attachment 3264563

And then there was his birthday tweet to George Lucas.
View attachment 3264583View attachment 3264585
A wolf is there for no reason at all. And whenever he's in public now, Filoni usually has (aside from his cowboy hat) a piece of wolf memorabilia on him, either a shirt, a pin, a belt, a watch, a bracelet, a badge or something else with a little wolf icon hidden somewhere.

I might have missed something, but did he ever give a reason for all the wolf shit? Like, what they "mean" or "symbolize"? It's just so on the nose. In a universe as alien as Star Wars, he puts normal fucking wolves in it. WTF? At least the owl is kind of different from a real owl. Fucking furfags, man.....

 

[Screamer]

Since Obi might end with the Black chick being the hero, what the fuck is going to happen with "Ahsoka"?

She will time travel to the moment of Anakin's conception. Use the force to change the gender. She walks into the Jedi Temple. They all bow to her leadership and peace is maintained for a thousand more years. Her leadership is followed by Anaka Skywalker who ushers in The Collective where space communism spreads throughout the galaxy. Completely erasing the entire canon of Star Wars.

 

[Creep3r]

Where?

August 2010, Star Wars Celebration V when asked why Obi-Wan and the Lars family let Luke keep his father's surname while Obi-Wan hid him on Tatooine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110717150103/http://www.starwars.com/fans/events/jon_stewart_george_lucas_main_event/index.html

On Luke Skywalker's name not being changed to protect his identity:​

So there's Luke Skywalker, who they're trying to keep hidden from Darth Vader who's also called Skywalker. When Vader saw on CNN that is was Luke Skywalker who blew up the Death Star, he would have thought, 'That name sounds familiar.' Where there any thoughts on making it Luke Ginsberg or Stewart, maybe? (Question from Dave in San Francisco)​

​

"There is a logic to that," Lucas says. "The first part being is that there's a lot of Skywalkers. Is there one Skywalker in the universe? No. You should see the phone book!"​

​

"I always thought Skywalker name was somewhat unique?" Stewart asks.​

​

"No, no, no, there's even the Skywalker wine," Lucas says. "Then the other part which is the one place that is the most painful for Anakin Skywalker is Tatooine, because that's where he grew up, that's where he lost his mother. The core of his sense of loss is on that planet. It's called denial. You'll notice also the Emperor has long suspected that there are children. You got to remember that Vader didn't even know that there are children at all. He killed Padme and didn't even know that the babies existed. He just put that out of his mind. "But the Emperor knew there was a possibility because he told a lie that said, 'You killed her,'" continues Lucas. "He knew she was pregnant and that there was a possibility these kids might still be alive. When Luke blows up the Death Star and you come back to this movie we're celebrating now, the first thing he says is 'Skywalker's alive. You son lives.' And that's the first time Vader really finds out he does have a son. The Emperor kind of knew it, he was just waiting for something to get in sense a ripple in the Force and say 'A-ha!'"​

And George on the idea for the names.

On how Lucas comes up with character names:​

​

"Right from the very beginning, the one thing about writing is that I don't want to do it. So I go to work at 9, I get up at 6, and all the writing is done between 5:45 and 6. I have to get my three pages a day done or I'm toast. So I spend my day doing things that are supposed to be important but don't really matter like waiting to get the mail, and one of those things is to write down names. I have a book that has names and I write names with my son. Wherever we are if I see something I like I'll write it down." ​

​

"If you look real hard, you'll see some of that," Lucas says. "Where we live and where Skywalker Ranch is an old Indian site of the Miwok Indians. So that's where Ewok came from. Dexter Jettster is named after my son who I call Jettster. Darth Vader is dark water or dark father in Dutch, or Dutch-ish."​

Outside of that, the earliest instance of Skywalker's name being considered common was in the 1991 Heir to the Empire when Mara Jade questioned whether there was a connection between Luke and Vader. And in A New Rebellion, native american sounding names like Skywalker, Starkiller, Fardreamer, etc are considered common on Tatooine. May or may not be related, but in the 1998 Alien Exodus/Alien Chronicles trilogy, which was originally commissioned by George to serve as a tie-in to his 1993 Monsters & Aliens guide and concept art book, and would've acted as a legendarium for star wars and its species, originally featured the origin of the name Skywalker as being the title and later surname of one of the first major human leaders in galactic pre-history; so someone like that was bound to get around.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

She will time travel to the moment of Anakin's conception. Use the force to change the gender. She walks into the Jedi Temple. They all bow to her leadership and peace is maintained for a thousand more years. Her leadership is followed by Anaka Skywalker who ushers in The Collective where space communism spreads throughout the galaxy. Completely erasing the entire canon of Star Wars.

you jest, but I can totally see them making the "If Anakin had been born a Lesbian black Woman none of this would have happened"

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Where?

Jon Stewart and George Lucas talked about it:
"I always thought Skywalker name was somewhat unique?"
"No, no, no, there's even the Skywalker wine."―Jon Stewart and George Lucas at Celebration V

https://web.archive.org/web/20110717150103/http://www.starwars.com/fans/events/jon_stewart_george_lucas_main_event/index.html

 

[Adamska]

August 2010, Star Wars Celebration V when asked why Obi-Wan and the Lars family let Luke keep his father's surname while Obi-Wan hid him on Tatooine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110717150103/http://www.starwars.com/fans/events/jon_stewart_george_lucas_main_event/index.html

On Luke Skywalker's name not being changed to protect his identity:​

So there's Luke Skywalker, who they're trying to keep hidden from Darth Vader who's also called Skywalker. When Vader saw on CNN that is was Luke Skywalker who blew up the Death Star, he would have thought, 'That name sounds familiar.' Where there any thoughts on making it Luke Ginsberg or Stewart, maybe? (Question from Dave in San Francisco)​

​

"There is a logic to that," Lucas says. "The first part being is that there's a lot of Skywalkers. Is there one Skywalker in the universe? No. You should see the phone book!"​

​

"I always thought Skywalker name was somewhat unique?" Stewart asks.​

​

"No, no, no, there's even the Skywalker wine," Lucas says. "Then the other part which is the one place that is the most painful for Anakin Skywalker is Tatooine, because that's where he grew up, that's where he lost his mother. The core of his sense of loss is on that planet. It's called denial. You'll notice also the Emperor has long suspected that there are children. You got to remember that Vader didn't even know that there are children at all. He killed Padme and didn't even know that the babies existed. He just put that out of his mind. "But the Emperor knew there was a possibility because he told a lie that said, 'You killed her,'" continues Lucas. "He knew she was pregnant and that there was a possibility these kids might still be alive. When Luke blows up the Death Star and you come back to this movie we're celebrating now, the first thing he says is 'Skywalker's alive. You son lives.' And that's the first time Vader really finds out he does have a son. The Emperor kind of knew it, he was just waiting for something to get in sense a ripple in the Force and say 'A-ha!'"​

And George on the idea for the names.

On how Lucas comes up with character names:​

​

View attachment 3270317​

"Right from the very beginning, the one thing about writing is that I don't want to do it. So I go to work at 9, I get up at 6, and all the writing is done between 5:45 and 6. I have to get my three pages a day done or I'm toast. So I spend my day doing things that are supposed to be important but don't really matter like waiting to get the mail, and one of those things is to write down names. I have a book that has names and I write names with my son. Wherever we are if I see something I like I'll write it down." ​

​

"If you look real hard, you'll see some of that," Lucas says. "Where we live and where Skywalker Ranch is an old Indian site of the Miwok Indians. So that's where Ewok came from. Dexter Jettster is named after my son who I call Jettster. Darth Vader is dark water or dark father in Dutch, or Dutch-ish."​

Outside of that, the earliest instance of Skywalker's name being considered common was in Heir to the Empire when Mara Jade questioned whether there was a connection between Luke and Vader. And in A New Rebellion, native american sounding names like Skywalker, Starkiller, Fardreamer, etc are considered common on Tatooine. May or may not be related, but in the 1998 Alien Exodus/Alien Chronicles trilogy, which was originally commissioned by George to serve as a tie-in to his 1993 Monsters & Aliens guide and concept art book, and would've acted as a legendarium for star wars and its species, originally featured the origin of the name Skywalker as being the title and later surname of one of the first major human leaders in galactic pre-history; so someone like that was bound to get around.

Hence why most normies aren't really too aware that Skywalker was pretty common. Ex cathedra statements are usually a pretty shit idea, but at least some EU books included and built on it, which lessens that from the chair bullshit. Speaking of which I think I remember an older take on the name was the equivalent of the surname they hand out to orphans who had none somewhere. Basically just handed out.

Still gonna disagree with Georgie here on the whole Emps knowing since while Ian's fun I kind of like the delivery of the previous Emperor more for that scene in Empire TBH.

 

[ZMOT]

Just go back and look at that first trailer for it that had the rebel pilot prisoners being led through the streets and scenes of beach combat with that big white furred alien. What was that film?

you gotta remember rogue one is basically 2 movies mashed together, hence being all over the place (apparently the first take was too gritty for disney). there are good pieces in there I can enjoy on it's own while ignoring the ones that seems to tilt most people. fwiw I have to give them props for killing everyone off, as underused as they were, instead of milking the shit out of them (and possibly ruin what little there was).
inb4 "lul ofc if you ignore everything bad it becomes good" - it's simply that the bad parts don't ruin the movie for me, even the worst scene with vader just to have another meme line trying to ape ANH doesn't.

Solo is weird in that you can definitely sense the styling of the original directors, which were the ones from The LEGO Movie and many comedy films. I think the that aspect shines through pretty well in Solo as it definitely feels like a more comedy heavy Star Wars film from what I remember. I think a comedy Star Wars can work in a way that isn’t TFA cringe, MCU humor, and I think Solo had pieces of that. The main issue with Solo was Disney kicking directors off because queen Kathleen no like humor unless shat out by JJ. It also suffers from Disney injecting lore shit into it such as the Solo name and the Darth Maul reveal.

this. if you can ignore that it's supposed han solo's origin story it's actually enjoyable. trying to connect it to the old cast actually made it worse.

 

[Kulee Baba]

"No, no, no, there's even the Skywalker wine," Lucas says. "Then the other part which is the one place that is the most painful for Anakin Skywalker is Tatooine, because that's where he grew up, that's where he lost his mother. The core of his sense of loss is on that planet. It's called denial. You'll notice also the Emperor has long suspected that there are children. You got to remember that Vader didn't even know that there are children at all. He killed Padme and didn't even know that the babies existed. He just put that out of his mind. "But the Emperor knew there was a possibility because he told a lie that said, 'You killed her,'" continues Lucas. "He knew she was pregnant and that there was a possibility these kids might still be alive. When Luke blows up the Death Star and you come back to this movie we're celebrating now, the first thing he says is 'Skywalker's alive. You son lives.' And that's the first time Vader really finds out he does have a son. The Emperor kind of knew it, he was just waiting for something to get in sense a ripple in the Force and say 'A-ha!'"​

So btw this quote from Lucas himself utterly kills Rick Worley's silly fan theory defense that Vader was feigning ignorance to The Emperor. In the now final cut of the Original Trilogy with Lucas's confirmation Vader learned that Luke Skywalker is his son from The Emperor. And I just hate it so much.

To me it totally kills Darth Vader's sense of agency. In the Non-Special Edition versions of Star Wars we never truly know when Darth Vader learned that Luke Skywalker was his son. Most likely you can imagine it happened after the Battle of Yavin, when stories spread that a young kid named Luke Skywalker from Tatooine blew up The Death Star. Or he had a vision of it, like Luke did in the mysterious cave on Dagobah.

But I digress, this new little tweak to the story means that Vader was still highly dependent on Emperor Palpatine. And that makes his villainous goal in both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi feel ridiculously half-baked. From Vader's perspective Palpatine was a living corpse whose time was coming to an end. But he couldn't rule things by himself and more importantly he needed his son to have his heroic victory of triumphing over "evil", which would have been murdering Palpatine and then learning the true power of the force under his father Vader.

Vader is somewhat of a dummy in Lucas's special edition. It sucks.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Anybody here ever play the game Star Wars: Rebellion?

So btw this quote from Lucas himself utterly kills Rick Worley's silly fan theory defense that Vader was feigning ignorance to The Emperor. In the now final cut of the Original Trilogy with Lucas's confirmation Vader learned that Luke Skywalker is his son from The Emperor. And I just hate it so much.

To me it totally kills Darth Vader's sense of agency. In the Non-Special Edition versions of Star Wars we never truly know when Darth Vader learned that Luke Skywalker was his son. Most likely you can imagine it happened after the Battle of Yavin, when stories spread that a young kid named Luke Skywalker from Tatooine blew up The Death Star. Or he had a vision of it, like Luke did in the mysterious cave on Dagobah.

But I digress, this new little tweak to the story means that Vader was still highly dependent on Emperor Palpatine. And that makes his villainous goal in both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi feel ridiculously half-baked. From Vader's perspective Palpatine was a living corpse whose time was coming to an end. But he couldn't rule things by himself and more importantly he needed his son to have his heroic victory of triumphing over "evil", which would have been murdering Palpatine and then learning the true power of the force under his father Vader.

Vader is somewhat of a dummy in Lucas's special edition. It sucks.

To be fair, he was kind of dumb in the original ROTJ, as well. His whole shtick in ESB was to recruit his son to fight the Emperor. In ROTJ, his son shows up, fully trained and everything, ready to help him kill the Emperor. He chickens out instead and defends the Emperor from Luke, when clearly, he should have done the opposite to try and kill the Emperor. He should have instead asked his son if Yoda taught him how to counter the Dark Side, so that when they come to face the Emperor, they'd be ready.

My own silly fan theory is that the Emperor found out about Vader trying to recruit Luke in ESB for his little regicide trip, and the Emperor decided to torture and break Vader, so when Vader faces Luke in ROTJ, the ambitious warlord we saw in ESB is gone, replaced with a broken shell who bows to his master the way Padawans do, instead of the way a Sith would; with a knife at his back.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

August 2010, Star Wars Celebration V

Just as I thought. People rightly complain about having to read obscure comics or watch shitty Disney+ shows to understand plot points in other media. But this plot point was made available at a convention for the most obsessive stans.
Decades after the film was released, too.

 

[Sex Cannon Lupa]

She's going to ascend to Godhood and take the Lightside Goddess's place and probably somehow end up saving Rey from Ochi or some crap.

What's funny (in a sadly bitter way) is that George sold SW to Disney so they'd produce that weird Coruscant gangster show of his, and instead they just autistically churn out Tatooine garbage year after year despite it supposedly being the ass-end of the galaxy.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

https://twitter.com/thatstarwarsgrl/status/1524287804489969664?