General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[2DUM4U]

The Chum Chalice has been proposed.

Wuzzat mean?

---

New animation.

 

[Retink]

Consume the chum chalice.

Calm down Ben Garrison.

 

[Renmai]

Are there other vtubers, apart from Pippa and Amelia, who have made mention of ubiquitous surveillance? I know Mumei has "joked" about watching some of her viewers in a threatening way (like "I'm in your walls" type stuff) so I guess that sort of counts.

Kiara does, apparently she knows some of their secret accounts and reads her more well known fan's thirsty posts even when they're not hashtagged.

 

[Erika Furudo]

I think @Deluxe's post about oshis and idol culture back during Rushia's termination sums up some of my thoughts
View attachment 3277948

I'm just going to ask it here due to this post, but what the fuck is an idol? Being a filthy waito piggu I have never understood idolfags or their culture, it has always been a mystery to me. Kiara and Suisei are both insanely strange people to me, as is hololive itself.

To me, an idol is a living doll. It has no autonomy or authenticity and every aspect of its life is controlled by marketing and management. I have never understood why people aspire to be idols, when you hear you cant date, you have stalkers, have women having their hands hacksaw'd by fans or being forced to apologize for having a boyfriend (and shaving their head), it just seems like an insanely miserable life, add in accusations of idols being pimped out/sexually assaulted by those controlling their career and it just seems hellish and undesirable. Has Kiara or Suisei ever stated what an idol is to them?

Suisei is especially strange, she has an amazing voice but she was always insecure about it (according to a clip I recently saw), she already has her own songs and does dancing, so what's her obsession with being an idol? Am I wrong n thinking idols are just girls who have to sing and dance for fans, since she and others do that already aren't they already idols?

Kiara is weird since she became an idol, got stalked and then wanted to become an idol again. I'm glad life is better for her, but I don't get how you can look at idols and image a life without creeps stalking you, it's like being a surgeon but not wanting to go near blood, not gonna happen.

I just never understood the idol idea, from all the abuse that comes with it making it undesirable, to the fact Japan has famous people who do actually get married/date and everything is fine. (What is the difference between an idol an a celebrity, was I right about idols being controlled for parasocial relationships with customers, or is there more to it?)

It's honestly bothered me for a while the whole idol thing. People freak out over idols dating, yet Korone supposedly has kids. Idols are famous, but so are other celebrities and they can date/marry just fine. I've never understood idols and tbh the Rushia saga made me like Hololive since they straight up said their talent's private life is none of their business, making me view hololive as not part of the idol industry due to the lack of an abusive relationship.

TL;DR I have no idea what an idol is supposed to be and I think I hate them.
Excuse any spergery I've been drinking.

 

[Zinnaha]

Are there other vtubers, apart from Pippa and Amelia, who have made mention of ubiquitous surveillance? I know Mumei has "joked" about watching some of her viewers in a threatening way (like "I'm in your walls" type stuff) so I guess that sort of counts.

Plenty. The Niji girls made mention they stalk their fans to a degree, some more than others (Enna/Millie/finana were more open about it and probably the biggest SCers more than just general people), Korone takes note of some people as well. Lulu used to at times. Gura made mention before "even if I don't really reply or respond" so honestly I think most if not all do to some degree (ego searching) or to keep tabs on certain people (idiots being blatant about past life posting.)

Edit:

but what the fuck is an idol?

Varies. If we go by (modern) Japanese standards, it's simply just a musical/dance star either solo or in a group setting. They usually start at a very young age (sometimes as young as like 4-5) and tend to get viewed in that "pure/seiso" image because their entire purpose is to take your money and make you want to buy their merch/cds and knowing what we know of men, its less likely if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend (or more serious) which is why in the classic sense, relationships are a nono, especially of the opposite sex. Modern days that's not as serious as people believe. Kpop Idols though it might still be more serious, but fans are getting less and less sensitive to that subject.

yet Korone supposedly has kids

You're TECHNICALLY not supposed to know if she does (or doesn't), let alone that she was previously married. You're only supposed to know "Korone" unless of course you knew her before she joined Hololive. The reason the Rushia shit happened was only partly the "idol" image, and 99% more she sold GFE (Girlfriend Experience) and farmed lonely simps for their money. So she doubled down on "if I fuck up it's gonna go nuclear"...and it did. There's definitely more in depth shit on it but it depends on how seriously you look into the culture because it's been changing and honestly doesn't exist outside of Japan and Korea (and probably China too.) Japanese celebs do get married and the like, but they aren't idols, they're just TV stars/Voice actors/actresses most of the time, so yeah they have some parasocial fans, but you're not being sold stuff strictly by them in the same fashion. It's unlikely to run into fanclubs for a Tv star compared to AKB48 for example.

Aspiring to be an idol is perfectly fine and many do have secret boyfriends/girlfriends, some are just way better at keeping it hidden and out of their content (online or off) than others. It's like how when you're a kid many aspired to be a TV star, you want those millions of buckeroos and to become famous.

 

[Avokado]

I'm just going to ask it here due to this post, but what the fuck is an idol? Being a filthy waito piggu I have never understood idolfags or their culture, it has always been a mystery to me. Kiara and Suisei are both insanely strange people to me, as is hololive itself.

To me, an idol is a living doll. It has no autonomy or authenticity and every aspect of its life is controlled by marketing and management. I have never understood why people aspire to be idols, when you hear you cant date, you have stalkers, have women having their hands hacksaw'd by fans or being forced to apologize for having a boyfriend (and shaving their head), it just seems like an insanely miserable life, add in accusations of idols being pimped out/sexually assaulted by those controlling their career and it just seems hellish and undesirable. Has Kiara or Suisei ever stated what an idol is to them?

Suisei is especially strange, she has an amazing voice but she was always insecure about it (according to a clip I recently saw), she already has her own songs and does dancing, so what's her obsession with being an idol? Am I wrong n thinking idols are just girls who have to sing and dance for fans, since she and others do that already aren't they already idols?

Kiara is weird since she became an idol, got stalked and then wanted to become an idol again. I'm glad life is better for her, but I don't get how you can look at idols and image a life without creeps stalking you, it's like being a surgeon but not wanting to go near blood, not gonna happen.

I just never understood the idol idea, from all the abuse that comes with it making it undesirable, to the fact Japan has famous people who do actually get married/date and everything is fine. (What is the difference between an idol an a celebrity, was I right about idols being controlled for parasocial relationships with customers, or is there more to it?)

It's honestly bothered me for a while the whole idol thing. People freak out over idols dating, yet Korone supposedly has kids. Idols are famous, but so are other celebrities and they can date/marry just fine. I've never understood idols and tbh the Rushia saga made me like Hololive since they straight up said their talent's private life is none of their business, making me view hololive as not part of the idol industry due to the lack of an abusive relationship.

TL;DR I have no idea what an idol is supposed to be and I think I hate them.
Excuse any spergery I've been drinking.

Japanese idol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://ultimatepopculture.fandom.com/wiki/Japanese_idol

I think the first sentence, and also the last sentence of the first paragraph, on Wikipedia summed the general idea of Japanese Idol. The details are varied from era to era.

An idol (アイドル, aidoru) is a type of entertainer marketed for image, attractiveness, and personality in Japanese pop culture

Idols are commercialized through merchandise and endorsements by talent agencies, while maintaining a parasocial relationship with a financially loyal consumer fan base.

Regarding stalking & relationship in the scope of Virtual YouTuber Idol, IDEALLY those are non issue due to anonymity.
Since the product is the character, anything happened to the person behind the character is not relevant.
But, the reality is not ideal.

 

[PassiveUnaggressive]

Not Theo has a good oshi to clip

 

[2DUM4U]

Kiara does, apparently she knows some of their secret accounts and reads her more well known fan's thirsty posts even when they're not hashtagged.

The stalkee becomes the stalker. See, this is the kind of character development that's missing in modern TV.

We can add Pikamee to the list of idols who stalk their fans too.

(This all means that if you comment regularly on different streams, you may have been stalked by multiple vtubers. A group of anime girls could be watching you right now.)

---

Kobosogaki

 

[Retink]

I turn around to my second monitor and notice Pippa updated her upcoming stream image from the Eve

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

I turn around to my second monitor and notice Pippa updated her upcoming stream image from the Eve
View attachment 3278881

Pippa...

 

[Thomas Talus]

Faithful Yabbit

 

[Retink]

Pippa...

Be patient with her, she has autism and I haven't fixed her yet.

 

[PassiveUnaggressive]

I turn around to my second monitor and notice Pippa updated her upcoming stream image from the Eve

I don't need that thumbnail in my list of liked videos....

 

[Kusogaki]

I'm just going to ask it here due to this post, but what the fuck is an idol? Being a filthy waito piggu I have never understood idolfags or their culture, it has always been a mystery to me. Kiara and Suisei are both insanely strange people to me, as is hololive itself.

To me, an idol is a living doll. It has no autonomy or authenticity and every aspect of its life is controlled by marketing and management. I have never understood why people aspire to be idols, when you hear you cant date, you have stalkers, have women having their hands hacksaw'd by fans or being forced to apologize for having a boyfriend (and shaving their head), it just seems like an insanely miserable life, add in accusations of idols being pimped out/sexually assaulted by those controlling their career and it just seems hellish and undesirable. Has Kiara or Suisei ever stated what an idol is to them?

Suisei is especially strange, she has an amazing voice but she was always insecure about it (according to a clip I recently saw), she already has her own songs and does dancing, so what's her obsession with being an idol? Am I wrong n thinking idols are just girls who have to sing and dance for fans, since she and others do that already aren't they already idols?

Kiara is weird since she became an idol, got stalked and then wanted to become an idol again. I'm glad life is better for her, but I don't get how you can look at idols and image a life without creeps stalking you, it's like being a surgeon but not wanting to go near blood, not gonna happen.

I just never understood the idol idea, from all the abuse that comes with it making it undesirable, to the fact Japan has famous people who do actually get married/date and everything is fine. (What is the difference between an idol an a celebrity, was I right about idols being controlled for parasocial relationships with customers, or is there more to it?)

It's honestly bothered me for a while the whole idol thing. People freak out over idols dating, yet Korone supposedly has kids. Idols are famous, but so are other celebrities and they can date/marry just fine. I've never understood idols and tbh the Rushia saga made me like Hololive since they straight up said their talent's private life is none of their business, making me view hololive as not part of the idol industry due to the lack of an abusive relationship.

TL;DR I have no idea what an idol is supposed to be and I think I hate them.
Excuse any spergery I've been drinking.

Idol culture only works on and for the japanese culture, and japanese society its like another world compared even with other asian countries. When you show the idol culture to the western culture, rejection its normal because its not made for them and the way its structured.

I dont know if its still on netflix, but i recommend you to watch the documental "Tokyo Idol" to understand why idol culture exists in Japan the way it is.

 

[Retink]

I don't need that thumbnail in my list of liked videos....

I'm pretty sure she just does it for a bit before the stream to lure in stray hornies and then changes it back to what it was before, which was a very innocent image of Eve. The worst part is I had the actual stream open, so when I saw it was full monitor sized, scared the shit out of me.

 

[Erika Furudo]

Japanese idol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://ultimatepopculture.fandom.com/wiki/Japanese_idol

So by that logic (in the video), isn't the term itself irrelevant?
The second link imo is just applicable to any entertainer. Any entertainer wants to get more fans, yet not all of them are viewed as idols.
I just don't get why a talented person would say "I want to be an idol" instead of becoming a singer, actor, etc.

Idol culture only works on and for the japanese culture, and japanese society its like another world compared even with other asian countries. When you show the idol culture to the western culture, rejection its normal because its not made for them and the way its structured.

I dont know if its still on netflix, but i recommend you to watch the documental "Tokyo Idol" to understand why idol culture exists in Japan the way it is.

Kpop seems to be doing well and I consider that idol culture. But it is easier to assume as a westerner I will just never understand it.

 

[augment]

Kpop is crafted and geared towards a global tween audience, turned up to 11. Japan's idols are only set to the expendable-income gachikoi.

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

Kpop is crafted and geared towards a global tween audience, turned up to 11. Japan's idols are only set to the expendable-income gachikoi.

From what I've gathered, the major difference between kpop and jpop is the fact that the jpop idols put all of their statpoints into cute, while the gooks have a 75%/25% split of slutty to cute.

 

[Rezza]

From what I've gathered, the major difference between kpop and jpop is the fact that the jpop idols put all of their statpoints into cute, while the gooks have a 75%/25% split of slutty to cute.

The Koreans idol have select templates of images they want to sell. "Cool", "Cute", "Sexy", etc. This is what JP companies are trying to learn

 

[Avokado]

Idol culture only works on and for the japanese culture, and japanese society its like another world compared even with other asian countries. When you show the idol culture to the western culture, rejection its normal because its not made for them and the way its structured.

There is Korea

So by that logic (in the video), isn't the term itself irrelevant?
The second link imo is just applicable to any entertainer. Any entertainer wants to get more fans, yet not all of them are viewed as idols.
I just don't get why a talented person would say "I want to be an idol" instead of becoming a singer, actor, etc.

Kpop seems to be doing well and I consider that idol culture. But it is easier to assume as a westerner I will just never understand it.

the video probably the most subjective definition of idols by the idols (or the one market the idols) themself.

The core of idol concept is the fans. Idols only exist to get dedicated fans.
The product is the personality, the image, not the songs, the movies, the stream, etc.
Songs, movies, streams, concerts, etc are just the tools to gain more fans.

Some idols treat their idol career as a stepping stone to the regular entertainment industry like singer, actor, etc.
To be successful as a singer probably you need an amazing performance from the start of your career. While as an idol you can start your successful career as a sub par singer or even a bad singer. You can then train your singing skill while being an idol, then graduate from your idol career to become regular singer.

The Korean idol culture is not far off from the Japanese one, including the dark side.

The Koreans idol have select templates of images they want to sell. "Cool", "Cute", "Sexy", etc. This is what JP companies are trying to learn

did they actually copy that from Korea?