General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

GIANT POWERLEVEL (BUT WHERE ELSE IF NOT HERE?)
Am FtM and suffer from severe gender dysphoria. Been on hormones for a while, and I'm pretty stoked with the effects. Getting a double mastectomy in a few years, absolutely no bottom surgery. I've seen so many botched results and even the "good" ones look like shit. Still don't pass in public, but I've lived with that my whole life, so it's kinda moot at this point. I only date other trans because honestly never met a real cis gay man or cis straight woman that would date me, which is fine. I'm engaged anyway, so it's not like I need to date anymore.

I don't use the men's room, I've been threatened with violence before so it's not worth it. Plus I look more like a butch lesbian anyway, so women don't bat an eye. That or single stall bathrooms.

Definitely agree that troonism and autism come hand in hand, as I'm an example.

The community is fucking batshit, so I get why we're so fucking hated. I tolerate 99% of "our" community at best. Stick to my own little circle of people.

Hopefully someday the trans community calms the fuck down. Probably not, but here's hoping.

Do your due diligence and speak to some women who have had mastectomies due to cancer and find out about the following quite likely sequelae:

1. Neuropathic pain (can be severe and intractable)
2. Lymphedema.

You should be honest with the women whose input you seek on this answer and stoically bear the distress they will likely express as a result of hearing that you're electively taking on a loss that was to them terrifying and devastating. Take it like a man. Don't complain or assume a victim stance.

Consider that for every surgical procedure you have done there is significant risk of severe infection, and of anesthesia complications. If you are pursuing a major surgical procedure that is not necessary to preserve life or limb, but think "if I die on the table, so what, I don't care that much about my life anyways!" consider that you are passively suicidal. And passively suicidal people should not, as a very widely agreed upon rule, make life-altering decisions. You should postpone the surgery until you fear death from it and wish to avoid death. At which point, what was the reason for taking on the risk in the first place again?

Consider also that if the risk of shortened lifespan- from a good handful of serious causes- due to testosterone boosting is acceptable to you that you are again, passively suicidal. You are killing female-you (the only you there is or ever will be) in hopes of reincarnating in a better life as male-you (a fiction that does not and cannot ever exist.) You should pause the drug use until you have gotten this mental health bit in order.

You will never be a man. Like most other female to males, you cannot even pass for a male online in anonymous forums. You don't know what it's like. It is a mystery that is impossibly opaque to you and always will be. All you can do is make yourself outwardly visible as a miserable deformed female who hates herself. And you don't want to do that, do you?

 

[Sealbaby]

The community is fucking batshit, so I get why we're so fucking hated. I tolerate 99% of "our" community at best. Stick to my own little circle of people.

Hello there. Many people here on KF and in the wider world are unaware of or just don't want to think about the moral and scientific complexities of trans issues and politics, and many of them don't have much sympathy for the suffering and confusion that's involved in the myriad experiences under the label of 'gender dysphoria'. I understand that that can be aggravating. But it's really good that you don't seem to be letting that make you bitter.

I agree with you about staying loyal to your own personal circle of people who get you. A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that there is just some group they can join, or ideology they can subscribe to, that will fulfill our needs for meaning, purpose, and a sense of status and belonging. Some of them become furries, others join far-right groups, others join far-left groups, others join cults or religions. But I think that in the end you can only rely on your family, your partner, and your small circle of trusted friends.

For example CIA Nigger said:

View attachment 3229017

He got temporarily banned here on KF because he deleted one of his furry friends' threads and then KFers shat all over him for doing that and being a furry. Then his furry friends abandoned him and shat all over him for being a KFer and being 'problematic' online.

Anyway, what I'm basically trying to say is just keep trying hard to be the best person you think you can be. Let your own conscience be your guide and let your family and your loved ones be your guide. Everyone else's opinion doesn't really matter, because they won't be there for you when you really need it. They can't be because that's just the way big communities (like trans, furry, or Kiwi Farms) work.

 

[Marvin]

That is exactly it I imagine the majority of those crimes were not really trans men or women at all, rather just dangerous men faking transsexualism to commit antisocial behaviour and fill on murder.

Transsexualism usually refers to those who've undergone surgery. It's possible to suffer from gender dysphoria but not undergo surgery. (because the surgeries are awful is one good reason)

But even if we're talking about transgenderism, in many places in the US, the law is based on self ID. If you say you're trans, you're trans. In those places, you can't "fake it", because of how transgenderism is defined in law.

Their seems to be this rhetoric here that liek 80% of all trans people are like Patrick Bateman level Psychos who want to waste anyone who so much as misgenders them. There are definitely a fair few that are like that, but not nearly as many as you think there are.

I don't think that's the case. Virtually all trans people are indeed fucked up, but not in the way that they're necessarily psychos (psychos in the sense that they're dangerous to other people).

And I don't think people here think they're all violent. I'm not sure why you think that. People here don't joke about trannies murdering people, so much as trannies being sex predators (which many of them are).

Any troon who mentions experiencing "gender euphoria", that's a creepy sex thing.

But if we're going to talk about the ones who are dangerous, many, probably most, of them are dangerous to themselves in one way or another. Not so much other people.

There are plenty of trans people who are just as smart as you or me, an old friend of mine who years later I found out was trans grew up to study computer graphics in a high ranking English University and engineering and hes pretty much one of the most intelligent people I know. He’s a little eccentric and has some of the strange eye rolling views trans or autogynephiliacs often have but that doesn’t automatically make him a shithead, I’m tired of this line of thought and I know it’s wrong, I’ve seen it first hand.

Going into computer graphics isn't a smart person thing, it's an autistic savant thing.

It's exactly those types of people who really should've been screened better psychologically when it comes to trans issues.

Even the studies that the trans brigade hasn't institutionally shut down has shown disturbing correlations between autism and transgenderism.

He's not a shithead, but he's most likely a somewhat spergy guy who developed some goofy ideas and the medical system is failing him by indulging them.

"getting your dick cut off and having your body, personal relationships and sex life ruined permanently because shrinks don't want to do their jobs" is a hell of a story.

It's like an addiction counselor who doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so they tell you that you can shoot up all the smack you want. And when your family refuses to answer the door because last three times, you hocked their TV, lawn mower and gramgram's jewelry, the addiction counselor tells you they're just "junkie-phobic".

 

[thegooddoctor]

I don't think that's the case. Virtually all trans people are indeed fucked up, but not in the way that they're necessarily psychos (psychos in the sense that they're dangerous to other people).

And I don't think people here think they're all violent. I'm not sure why you think that. People here don't joke about trannies murdering people, so much as trannies being sex predators (which many of them are).

Any troon who mentions experiencing "gender euphoria", that's a creepy sex thing.

But if we're going to talk about the ones who are dangerous, many, probably most, of them are dangerous to themselves in one way or another. Not so much other people.

Perhaps a lot are, but not for the reasons that they are trans but perhaps from other mental illnesses associated with depression, isolation that are triggered not from dysphoria but a huge lack of acceptance from society and general distrust. Admittedly a lot more do display antisocial behaviour then I would like to admit, but I really don’t think it can all be attributed to them. Societies conditioning of LGBT people in general has no doubt led to a lot of the hostile nature of such Marginalised groups and did a lot of damage to a lot of gay men and woman’s psyches due to the historical mental and physical abuse they received.

A lot of the more hostile sexual behaviours do not come out of willing choice but rather of the severe social isolation and ostracisation they received historically leading to a lot of the mental illnesses we perceive today, I usually hate the cliche of ´society to blame’ for explaining the evils of today but in this case it really is an apt explanation. I’m not excusing a lot of the deviant and dangerous behaviours a lot do them do, I understand a lot of damage is done by the belief owe should excuse mentally ill people of any damage they do to themselves and others because it’s simply ‘nature’ But even do blaming trans people for all their strange behaviours is not fair, society itself is absolutely partially to blame for how many of them act.

Going into computer graphics isn't a smart person thing, it's an autistic savant thing.

I’m sorry but that is a subjective opinion, you can be intelligent and work in computer graphics and engineering and not be a sperg. What job would you consider to be a smart person thing? not trying to bait, genuinely curious.

It's exactly those types of people who really should've been screened better psychologically when it comes to trans issues.

Even the studies that the trans brigade hasn't institutionally shut down has shown disturbing correlations between autism and transgenderism.

Perhaps, I’ll admit we both went to all boys high school in the early 2010s, I don’t think he could’ve been given such screening since he was too young to display any tendencies and my school was sadly very homophobic so I can’t imagine the social ridicule he would’ve received if he came out as gay and trans. Is that true? there is a high correlation between trans and being autistic? that is very surprising I’ll admit, I’d like to hear more about this research, I wouldnt have thought they came hand in hand particularly.

He's not a shithead, but he's most likely a somewhat spergy guy who developed some goofy ideas and the medical system is failing him by indulging them.

Trust me, you may not seem to think so but he is extremely intelligent, he was like one of those high grades in everything back in high school, and knows more about technology than anyone I’ve met, yes he is a spergy guy but I should preface that he hasn’t transitioned yet. He is aware how dangerous the surgeries can be and well aware of the insanity a lot of his people cause. He is currently more of an autogynephiliac now more than anything. But he is far from insane.

getting your dick cut off and having your body, personal relationships and sex life ruined permanently because shrinks don't want to do their jobs" is a hell of a story.

It's like an addiction counselor who doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so they tell you that you can shoot up all the smack you want. And when your family refuses to answer the door because last three times, you hocked their TV, lawn mower and gramgram's jewelry, the addiction counselor tells you they're just "junkie-phobic".

This sounds like a pretty state centric problem, I don’t know about the addiction counsellors you’ve heard about, but I can’t imagine there are many awful at there job enough to literally encourage the very thing they are helping their patient push against.

Transsexualism isn’t an ´addiction’ comparable to drugs, a good sex therapist could certainly help a trans man or woman transition healthily, they would just not feed into the more antisocial parts of their personality, steer them away from deviant and antisocial behaviour and remind them of how cared about by their friends or family. Most importantly, they should make absolutely sure it was something they truly wanted and spend months to years discussing their decision before transitioning,

I definitely agree their are critical issues of younger people being able to get harmful and life altering surgeries way too early in life because they latch on to the mildest feeling of dysphoria and want to transition without considering the huge health risks these admittedly terrifying surgeries entail. Maybe age restrictions should be set to those seeking gender reassignment surgeries, nobody under 21 could circumvent the large number of depressed and mentally damaged teens and young adults who transitioned far too early and probably shouldn’t.

 

[Skookum Jim]

I think there are a few different types of trans people. You've got the AGP types who either are forcing the whole world to participate in their extremely esoteric fetish or took a different fetish (crossdressing, male chastity etc.) to it's logical extreme in an effort to finally catch that dragon. You can also probably throw Fujoshits in this category too, because they too are chasing a dragon, but in their case it's more that theyve decided they want to become the ideal yaoi boy of their dreams, as opposed to just reading and writing shitty fiction about them.

Then there are the FtM Aidan types who seem to come from either extremely traditional or generally abusive upbringings. They grew up with an extremely rigid idea of what Femininity was, and sort of identify Masculinity as anything that is not feminine, which causes them to transition in an effort to gain access to the perceived freedom of "manhood." Of course this freedom is false, and ideally most everything is androgynous enough that either sex can participate in things and never be considered weird. Of course, one thing I've noticed about households like that is that the one thing they don't teach very well is self reflection, so this conclusion never occurs to them, and at that point all it takes is one predatory influence over the internet.

The last type I see is your average zoomer/millennial MtF. These people usually come from atomized suburban upbringings, causing them to have not much cultural or group identity to latch onto as they go through adolescence and try and find an identity for themselves. Previous generations had subcultures, Geek, Goth, Punk, Emo, Scene, and a hundred others for these disaffected kids, and they would latch onto these subcultures until college or their first job or whatever coming of age experience they had, at which point they safely discard the label, as they have had enough life experience to form their own identity, independent of a rigid subculture. I believe transgenderism is serving that function for a lot of MtF guys, the difference being that a combination of social media purpose built to construct echo chambers and drive "engagement" and a group identity that demands more of its constituents than "get a piercing, dye your hair, smoke cowboy killers behind the bike racks because you want to rebel," it demands surgical change to be "the other gender" and a fundamental change in how you understand the language you speak. In that way it's much more poisonous than any other subculture ever was, because it demands much more, and is more likely to trap people in the identity hole forever because of that.

 

[Marvin]

Perhaps a lot are, but not for the reasons that they are trans but perhaps from other mental illnesses associated with depression, isolation that are triggered not from dysphoria but a huge lack of acceptance from society and general distrust.

Depression is a symptom of gender dysphoria.

There's no reason to believe more or less acceptance from society does much. Honestly, more acceptance seems to antagonize the situation, by presenting the (unscientific) concept of "born in the wrong body" as a legitimate medical concept. For kids with autism spectrum disorders or girls with body image issues, that's fucking poison.

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that, at its core, is a delusional (in a literal sense, not an insulting sense) belief about the individual and their relation to the facts about their body. Just like body dysmorphia (skinny girls thinking "I'm too fat").

They're factually male or female, and wish/believe they were the opposite. Society reacts to that and maybe that makes them feel worse, but that's ancillary. That's not the primary cause.

If it was, then society wouldn't have progressed past the stone age, when populations diverged and developed contradictory spiritual/religious beliefs. When Ook and Benk disagreed about whether the sun god or the rain god ruled the world, they didn't develop symptoms of depression.

Scientologists don't develop dysphoria when people tell them thetans aren't real. (Of course, scientologists are pretty fucked up, but because that's how cults operate, but that's neither here nor there.)

A lot of the more hostile sexual behaviours do not come out of willing choice but rather of the severe social isolation and ostracisation they received historically leading to a lot of the mental illnesses we perceive today, I usually hate the cliche of ´society to blame’ for explaining the evils of today but in this case it really is an apt explanation. I’m not excusing a lot of the deviant and dangerous behaviours a lot do them do, I understand a lot of damage is done by the belief owe should excuse mentally ill people of any damage they do to themselves and others because it’s simply ‘nature’ But even do blaming trans people for all their strange behaviours is not fair, society itself is absolutely partially to blame for how many of them act.

Their strange sexual behaviors don't come from ostracization. Their strange sexual behaviors are a result of overconsumption of pornography, especially at an early age. In bygone times, you had the occasional autogynephile fetishist, but it's been kicked into overdrive when you're exposing kids to this material en masse, right as they progress into puberty.

At the very least, that normalizes behaviors to kids that should rightfully be understood as unhealthy and abnormal. In the worst case, it leads to them imprinting on weird shit.

This sounds like a pretty state centric problem, I don’t know about the addiction counsellors you’ve heard about, but I can’t imagine there are many awful at there job enough to literally encourage the very thing they are helping their patient push against.

I used that as a ridiculous example. Obviously no addiction counselors behave that way because they'd be fired. But gender shrinks regularly behave that way.

Transsexualism isn’t an ´addiction’ comparable to drugs, a good sex therapist could certainly help a trans man or woman transition healthily, they would just not feed into the more antisocial parts of their personality, steer them away from deviant and antisocial behaviour and remind them of how cared about by their friends or family. Most importantly, they should make absolutely sure it was something they truly wanted and spend months to years discussing their decision before transitioning,

Medical transition is a treatment first and foremost, not a non-medical life choice.

It's not (primarily) about whether you "want" it or not. Plenty of people want heroin. The question is whether heroin is an appropriate treatment for their condition.

I know that ultimately doctors do present choices at times to their patients. (X% of breast cancer, do you want a mastectomy?) But I think the conversation with trans medicine is severely fucked up, because they simultaneously talk about transgenderism being a lifestyle choice (ie not medical) but they demand medical resources (licensed doctors, controlled substances) to support it because gender dysphoria is a psychological condition. These two things cannot both be true.

When we're talking about gender medicine, the questions are:

1. Is medical transition the best treatment for gender dysphoria for this particular patient?
   1. Considering costs and benefits?
   2. Compared to alternative treatments, including no treatment?
2. Is it even ethical to treat psychological conditions with physical interventions?

Modern gender shrinks do not consider these issues.

I’m sorry but that is a subjective opinion, you can be intelligent and work in computer graphics and engineering and not be a sperg. What job would you consider to be a smart person thing? not trying to bait, genuinely curious.

Spoiler: spergy programmers

It is a subjective opinion, and it's not really very important. But yes, you can be intelligent and work in computer graphics and engineering. But just because you work in computer graphics and engineering, doesn't mean you're smart.

There's a certain type who's good with more restrictive programming models and they're almost always huge spergs. In my professional experience, they suck to work with.

Other types of software engineering are fine.

Is that true? there is a high correlation between trans and being autistic? that is very surprising I’ll admit, I’d like to hear more about this research, I wouldnt have thought they came hand in hand particularly.

Yes, there's a lot of studies out there that have established the correlation. It's most likely because a very noticeable feature of autism spectrum disorders is rigid thinking. When spergs engage in gender non-conforming behavior, so like a girl who likes stereotypically boyish things, this causes them distress because they think girls = barbie, boys = gi joe, so she concludes that she must be a boy.

The correct way to approach this would be to provide therapy to help the spergs chill out and learn to accept some nuance in the world. In the same way that they receive therapy to deal with any other aspect of their autism disorder. Like autists who experience social awkwardness. We don't prescribe them the life of a hermit, we give them therapy to help them cope with that awkwardness.

Likewise, if an autistic girl feels uncomfortable because being good at science is a "boy thing", we don't chop her tits off, we give her therapy to help her to be more comfortable being gender non-conforming. Or at least that's what we should do.

The only reason they refuse to be consistent about this is because of politics.

Trust me, you may not seem to think so but he is extremely intelligent, he was like one of those high grades in everything back in high school, and knows more about technology than anyone I’ve met

Yeah... you're not really convincing me he's not a sperg. But that's fine.

yes he is a spergy guy but I should preface that he hasn’t transitioned yet. He is aware how dangerous the surgeries can be and well aware of the insanity a lot of his people cause. He is currently more of an autogynephiliac now more than anything. But he is far from insane.

That's good. And I wasn't saying he was insane. I was saying that he got some goofy ideas in his head. We're all human, and fall into bad crowds and make bad decisions.

 

[smegma lover 69]

I think the concept of being transgender, on its own, is not unusual and understandable. But I find that all the negativity that comes with it is very external and goes a lot deeper than just "I don't identify with the gender I was given at birth".

The thing is that, even in trans circles, there's always little to no positivity about being trans. It feels disengenuous to promote trans pride while at the same time being depressed because you don't pass, are misgendered, etc. I'm not going to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do with their life, but if being trans brings you more misery than happiness, it almost feels like they're purposely feeding off of it.

It's definitely not a coincidence that a lot of trans people have depression, even if it's not depression solely due to gender dysphoria.

My two cents is that everything surrounding transitioning (physically) just seems like a total fucking nightmare. You're permanently changing your body, even taking HRT will change you in ways where you can't turn back. Not to mention how incredibly expensive it all is. If you ever end up changing your mind in the future about your identity, you can't go back.

And even then, I find that there's never going to be a point where you pass 100%, which is the worst part. You can take hormones, got top surgery, bottom surgery, but there's no way to completely stop misgendering.

tl;dr being trans seems to take pride in being incredibly depressed at all times and nothing about that is healthy.

 

[senpaigender]

I always wonder if I'm missing something huge where trans stuff is considered. The fact that I've yet to see one single person answer the simple question:
What is a woman/man?
without relying on stereotypes or a non-answer such as "it's impossible to define because umm it's personal and spiritual! uwu" makes me genuinely question how anyone can support this movement after thinking about it for more then ten seconds. I can't even claim it's because most people are idiots. I know lots of smart, kind people who buy into it so hard (some of them are trans themselves!). Pure insanity to me.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I always wonder if I'm missing something huge where trans stuff is considered. The fact that I've yet to see one single person answer the simple question:
What is a woman/man?
without relying on stereotypes or a non-answer such as "it's impossible to define because umm it's personal and spiritual! uwu" makes me genuinely question how anyone can support this movement after thinking about it for more then ten seconds. I can't even claim it's because most people are idiots. I know lots of smart, kind people who buy into it so hard (some of them are trans themselves!). Pure insanity to me.

You'll never get a straight answer, because there isn't one. The entire concept of alternate gender identity is predicated on feelings, mood, and stereotypes, and often defined against the stereotypes of the person's own sex. It's a case of "I feel things that I've been told are unmasculine/unfeminine, so I must be something else" and nothing more.

There are so many people I want to ask this sort of question to, but I can't afford to burn those bridges right now. I guarantee you however, if they're actually pressed, they'll mentally short-circuit and refuse to answer. They can't, because actually trying to answer it honestly would tear the foundations out of their entire belief system.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Lgbt stuff was fine until you see Desmond is amazing at drag clubs snorting ketamine and children pushed into being trans.

 

[byuu]

"Trans rights are human rights" is the shittiest slogan I've ever heard.

Compare it to "We're here, we're queer, get used to it". Simple, catchy, encapsulates the heart of the issue.

While "trans rights are human rights" is awkward, about abstract shit like human rights, and I have no fucking clue what it's even trying to say.
What are those trans rights you're screaming for? Why would you expect me to know that?
Or are they just human rights? We already got those.
What the fuck do you want from me, trannies? You're protesting out on the street but you're not even telling me your actual demands.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

I always wonder if I'm missing something huge where trans stuff is considered. The fact that I've yet to see one single person answer the simple question:
What is a woman/man?
without relying on stereotypes or a non-answer such as "it's impossible to define because umm it's personal and spiritual! uwu" makes me genuinely question how anyone can support this movement after thinking about it for more then ten seconds. I can't even claim it's because most people are idiots. I know lots of smart, kind people who buy into it so hard (some of them are trans themselves!). Pure insanity to me.

Its a contradiction at a basic level, literal mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance.

>I don't know what a woman is
>Trans women are women

Pick one, because both statements should never be said by the same person in congruence.

The best way to define a woman Ive seen is frankly that women's biology is oriented around a reproductive system that births children. That basically includes women who can give birth, or can't, but whose bone structure, physical body, the majority of their internal organs, hormones, muscles, etc have been oriented around this, whether or not they function properly.

Regardless, we all know what a woman is, so the disingenuous "I dont know what a woman is" just instantly causes me to get disinterested in a conversation, because said person parroting that just isn't being honest with themselves, and is indoctrinated at some level.

 

[Marvin]

Its a contradiction at a basic level, literal mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance.

>I don't know what a woman is
>Trans women are women

Pick one, because both statements should never be said by the same person in congruence.

The best way to define a woman Ive seen is frankly that women's biology is oriented around a reproductive system that births children. That basically includes women who can give birth, or can't, but whose bone structure, physical body, the majority of their internal organs, hormones, muscles, etc have been oriented around this, whether or not they function properly.

Regardless, we all know what a woman is, so the disingenuous "I dont know what a woman is" just instantly causes me to get disinterested in a conversation, because said person parroting that just isn't being honest with themselves, and is indoctrinated at some level.

Basically yeah. And to preempt the well acktually's you'll get, say female instead of woman. (And then if you want, say that a woman is an adult human female, which is true.)

The female of a mammalian species is the sex that develops towards the production of large, immobile gametes (ovum, eggs). Males are the ones that develop towards the production of small, mobile gametes (sperm).

This is true for all mammals. No mammals switch sexes, even with modern medical technology. There are no in-betweens either.

 

[Anti-Social Social Club]

I'm probably desperate but I think the best place to peak normies is r/stupidpol since it's not just reeeing about trans people it also features normal leftist topics like unionizing

It's kind of miserable how there are no spaces where you can redirect people to if they wanted to learn about the censored stuff. Kiwifarms, LC and it's diary-free sister site will scare away most people for good reason. Ovarit is a joke because it just comes off as tumblr during the height of the feminist movement and some of them get very defensive about criticizing white women again not ideal for normies and anyone that's PC.

I think I reached a point where I will refuse to acknowledge nonbinary even with friends, It's amazing how if I switched to my native language all problems of misgendering disappear and I'm not a hateful transphobic bigot!. I think I'm generally fine for MTF/FTM if they have gender dysphoria since I don't understand a lot of it and don't want to toss it out the window just because I don't understand it.

I always wonder if I'm missing something huge where trans stuff is considered. The fact that I've yet to see one single person answer the simple question:
What is a woman/man?
without relying on stereotypes or a non-answer such as "it's impossible to define because umm it's personal and spiritual! uwu" makes me genuinely question how anyone can support this movement after thinking about it for more then ten seconds. I can't even claim it's because most people are idiots. I know lots of smart, kind people who buy into it so hard (some of them are trans themselves!). Pure insanity to me.

You're not missing anything it's a braindead ideology. I was talking with someone about gender shit and he said I have to be agender/nonbinary because I believe that the whole "internal gender" is bullshit. It was such a stupid conversation I must have lost some braincells. I said that outside of biology "feeling like a woman" or "feeling like a man" isn't a thing because gender expectations, roles, and expressions change. According to him I was being unscientific because I was rejecting the idea that there's an internal gender, I can't wait for sociology and the other social sciences to ditch the whole "gender is an internal feeling uwu" but I don't think it will happen.

It's so frustrating how their words are shallow and meaningless yet they insist it's deep and revolutionary. You keep searching for answers and find nothing.

 

[thegooddoctor]

I’ll admit, Trans culture and it’s people are far more insane than I’d ever thought to be. It’s such a shame that a community in theory that could be relatively sane and grounded has such a wide variety of sexual deviancy, Perverted narcissists and full on antisocial psychopaths in some cases. While I still do agree that the concept of gender itself Is artificial. These traits that’s define as masculine and feminine are entirely based on pre conceived social concepts that we’ve associated with genders throughout the centuries. The concept of biological sex itself is definitely scientifically correct as evidenced by clear physical differences between a man and a woman, differences in biology all backed with well documented science and clear evidence. The Trans communities outright ignorance of these clear facts is admittedly laughable and I completely understand the rage and irritation so many users here feel towards their delusions, cognitive dissonance and outward lunacy.

However, genuinely curious about, that despite this sites huge vendetta and open disdain for the entire Trans community and the very ideology itself. Despite all of your colourful but admittedly sometimes very detailed and intelligent thought out deep criticisms of these people as a whole. Despite all the endless complaints, analysis’s, rants and many, many memes, not a single person here to my knowledge has ever gone out of their way to make a stand and actually do something about this huge community they claim to show such disdain for. You have spent literally thousands of pages voicing your complaints and often outright hatred for this community. Yet from my knowledge no kiwi has ever gone out of their way to actually take their complaints and try to express them openly IRL, be it through protests or just being vocal to others about how you vehemently oppose everything this important and increasingly supported social movement is trying to achieve.

The point being is that despite all your complaints, all your detailed analysis’s and endless vitriol towards this group claiming they are all degenerates and how you know what is right, you have never gone out of your way to make actual changes towards this group, instead being more compliant to simply complain on this forum about the deviancy and damage that the trans population are doing to society. Rather than making a stand and going to work collectively to fight back or create a group that preaches anti-trans views and warns society of the dangers these people are to medicine, LGBT and children . You have been more content to simply complain about the issue instead of taking any action against these people, and ultimately It kind of sounds like whining.

I get it, the role of the farms is to watch and observe and not interact with the cows It chooses to mock, ‘don’t pozload my negholep’ as it’s crudely said. But Trans people are not lolcows, although I’m sure some cows are indeed trans too, nevertheless, the Trans community are well known to the vast majority of mainstream society and their visibility is deeply ingrained in society unlike the relatively obscure internet community of lolcows.

Therefore, since this an increasingly more important part of the LGBT community and it’s visibility is well known, why don’t more people here try to speak out against them or set up rally’s, protests, or trying to repeal damaging laws that allow trans people to transition and indoctrinate people so easily? There is literally nothing standing in your way other than wokeists screaming at you and risking becoming a big target of hate in the Trans communities and being labelled a cis -male or female. But their opinion probably matters to you as much as an ant fart on Mars, so what’s the issue?

I’m being serious, literally go up to a trans person or group next time you see them and are pushing their ideas or trying to convert you and flat out tell them point blank their being shitheads or that you think them and their entire ideologies are idiotic, delusional or flat out wrong. It seems like something many here are really itching to do but haven't for whatever reason which I don’t understand. The farms I imagine doesn’t necessarily despise the Lolcow community as much as laugh at their idiocy, strange behaviours and astonishing egos and lack of ability to learn from their behaviours. There are some exceptions of course, but the majority I imagine merely laugh rather than get angry at the cows we choose to document.

This is different with trans community, Transgenders, or rather the entire Transgender community, has been at the forefront of the farms scorn and criticisms since its inception. They probably have the second highest amount of hatred given to them as a group second to only literal pedophiles, threads and pages dedicated to shitting on Transgenders probably accumulate to nearly half of all the combined lolcow threads, a huge third at most. They are almost like the personal 'archenemy' of this site, combined with SJW and their culture but specific disdain for trans in particular. So I ask you? Why aren't you making a stand and trying to do something about this dangerous social movement led by apparently antisocial perverts who indoctrinate children, flaunt societies rules and encourages people to mutilate themselves through dangerous, life changing surgery?

You can make all the detailed points you want, tell every joke, give the most complex and nuanced answers for your anti-trans views around, tell every joke, make the best cases in the world for why you the Trans Ideology is flawed and dangerous to its core. But ultimately no matter how much vitriol you want to spray about your grievances towards this group, than ultimately, no matter how intelligent your points may be, it really just kinda seems like whining more than anything else. I think its time people here saw it for what it really Is.

You have been willing to spend such inordinate amounts of time criticising this entire Social movement you claim to despise, yet you have not once done anything to try and make any notable difference in the grand scheme of things despite all your ire. The very fact that you have been more comfortable to keep your views strictly to this niche forum, without expressing them publicly In fear of being hated for such conservative and discriminatory views, all In which i imagine is to protect your own ego's or be an enemy of the very people you claim to hate anyway. Proves ultimately you are either:

1. A coward
2. An asshole

Im sorry if you disagree with me, but that is simply the truth, Kiwis have spent all this time expressing every single criticism under the sun on why they don't like Trans people and think that they are filled with antisocial perverts who cause destruction to themselves and others through flaunting societies rules in order to live out a sexual fantasy in name of an ideological construct that is dangerous at best and flat out insane at worst. You may very well be right, I am not sure myself due to the ridiculous nuances and complexities of such broad concepts alone. But it doesn't matter if all you are doing Is simply voicing your frustrations time and time again, as they continue to grow clout and power. Its equivalent watching a house on fire and complaining It's on fire, yet not realising the fire hose right in your hands, All i'm saying is stop talking and start doing. You can make the very best arguments in the world for why you hate this Social movement, but if all your doing is expressing it through a keyboard and on a forum, It ultimately does not matter.

Be the change you want to be.

Otherwise, your really nothing more than a whiner, or a coward, thats all there is to it, Sorry.​

 

[teriyakiburns]

@thegooddoctor Have you paid any attention at all to what happens to people who push back even a little?

And yes, I am an asshole. So what? Doesn't change the fact that you're simping for a movement that you now openly admit consists of perverts, who will gleefully destroy the lives and livelihoods of anyone who so much as fails to keep up to date with the latest trans nomenclature, never mind disagree with their premises.

Your premise is false. It's also retarded.

 

[Help Me Move This Table]

I’ll have you know I tithe the full 41% to Earl’s ongoing fundraisers

 

[thegooddoctor]

@thegooddoctor Have you paid any attention at all to what happens to people who push back even a little?

And yes, I am an asshole. So what? Doesn't change the fact that you're simping for a movement that you now openly admit consists of perverts, who will gleefully destroy the lives and livelihoods of anyone who so much as fails to keep up to date with the latest trans nomenclature, never mind disagree with their premises.

Your premise is false. It's also retarded.

I also said coward don't forget, If your perfectly happy to say whatever you want it shouldn't be an issue, if your afraid of being and an enemy or attacked simply support yourself with like-minded people, I don't suppose any of your friends know you use this place but do they know about your anti-trans views? I imagine a lot of them hold similar views to you since their your friends so simply protect yourself with those who support you ideologically and have your back, Its not too hard.

 

[Sergeant Major Buzzkill]

@thegooddoctor Thanks for the unneeded PSA, buddy. Through that wall of text you wrote, do you honestly understand the responses people give to you when questioning the bullshit you've been saying? The "unneeded criticism" Kiwis give towards trans people is justified, whether you like reading it or not. And maybe, just maybe, entertaining a mentally vulnerable person's delusions (which are literal, and I'm not saying that to be a douche) is not worth it. At all. @Marvin gives you the sources where the medical field is exploitative, along with other well-founded evidence that I strongly doubt that you even fucking read lol.

 

[Marvin]

The point being is that despite all your complaints, all your detailed analysis’s and endless vitriol towards this group claiming they are all degenerates and how you know what is right, you have never gone out of your way to make actual changes towards this group,

What makes you think that, at all? Plenty of kiwis are politically active.

But even so, it's exceptionally risky to push back on the trans nonsense in public.

Like look what happened to this guy. That guy's daughter was sexually assaulted by some little enby faggot in a school bathroom. And it wasn't the first time the little shit did it. The first time he did it to another girl, all the school board did was shift him around, so he was free to do it to a second girl (the guy's daughter).

The man was rightfully pissed off, so he went to a school board meeting to screech at the school board. They had him dragged out of there, bloodied, and charged him with some bullshit charge. (Yeah, I'm sure he should've stayed calm and gone through the proper channels blah blah blah)

That picture of him was spammed all over the internet and suddenly he found himself having to defend himself and explain in the court of public opinion how he wasn't a bigot.

If you know any mainstream liberal types, they probably think that dude was some sort of gay-bashing republican, and probably racist too. Even if they read up about it, and they start to sympathize with him, it'll take a long time before they admit he had anything legitimate to complain about. Like deep in his soul, some sort of gay bashing hate lurked, he probably wouldn't have been as mad if it was a good straight boy who raped his daughter. (legit, lots of people think this way)

It's really a huge uphill battle to peak someone on the trans issue because there's an absurdly powerful lobby behind it. They have it beat into their skulls that trannies are downtrodden weirdos who everyone picks on and they're murdered by the millions annually. (Despite trannies having a much lower murder rate than the general population.) And even when they do suspect there's something funny going on in trannyland, they know there's the immense threat of having their lives ruined over it.

Like look at what JK Rowling. She's like the nicest old liberal lady ever, and yet somehow now she's tranny hitler.

So I really, totally understand why someone says "fuck that" and doesn't want to stick their neck out.

That being said, I do think people should risk it. This is a serious issue, and tranny shit is a massive sexist campaign against women. We all have mothers.

I personally am active in politics over this issue. I give to various organizations (Like Women's Liberation Front) and I write to my politicians about these issues. In my state, Maryland, they tried to pass a similar law to California's which effectively makes all prisons self-ID gender-wise. When California did that, and the women complained, they basically said "lol here's some condoms".

I complained and wrote to my politicians about it and thankfully it did not pass.

This is an important issue to me because when I was a teenager, my mother did a stint in prison on drug charges. If that happened today (it won't, because she's no longer with us), and some prison official or judge put a man in a cell with her, I'd fucking kill them. That's not fucking funny.

And really, this is how it is with every trans issue. There's no metric by which a troon matches up stronger with women that you couldn't equally say about ordinary gay men. But ordinary gay men don't get all these societal asspats. So what's the point?

But yeah, nah, the trans establishment is full of vindictive shitheads who will ruin your life for speaking out about them. The people who vocally criticize them are brave as fuck. (Not me, I take very little risks, the people who are super public about it are heroes.)

Not speaking up about troons isn't cowardice, it's a legitimate concern for one's safety and wellbeing.

For everyone who isn't willing to go public, the least you can do is peak friends and family privately.

(Like I'd say that writing to your representatives should be safe, but even then, we just saw that Roe v Wade leak from within the fucking supreme court. And I trust supreme court staffers way more than my ordinary woke rep/senator staff.)