War Don’t believe those who say ending Roe v Wade will leave society largely intact - The Guardian reeeeally needs a Xanax prescription (and so does Android Raptor)

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Now that the dust has begun to settle after the inital explosive news that the US supreme court is poised to overrule the right to abortion and that Justice Samuel Alito’s draft opinion in Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization represents what a majority of the court initially voted to do, among the most revealing ways to understand the devastation the court appears ready to wreak on America’s long march toward “liberty and justice for all” is to examine the kinds of arguments being made in the opinion’s defense.

The argument that such a ruling would simply return a divisive issue to the people had long since been widely dismantled. It certainly wouldn’t be returned to the people most profoundly affected once women were told they may have to remain pregnant despite whatever urgent reasons they might have for seeking a safe and legal abortion. It couldn’t be described as returning the abortion issue to the states, now that the possibility of a nationwide ban that the supreme court might uphold is on the horizon. And to the extent the issue is returned to the states, it would be returned to state legislatures so gerrymandered that they often represent the views of a distinct minority of the people anyway.

The argument that “only” abortion is involved because Alito’s draft assures readers that the supreme court’s opinion won’t be treated as precedent for anything that doesn’t involve killing an unborn human is both profoundly insulting and manifestly misleading. It insults every sentient person by minimizing the significance of commandeering the bodies and lives of half the population – and re-inserting government power into every family. And it misleads every reader of Alito’s words by suggesting that a court has the power to shape how future lawmakers and judges will build on its decisions and the reasoning underlying them. Alito’s hollow promise brings to mind similar assurances in notorious cases like Bush v Gore, is inconsistent with how the judicial process works, and wouldn’t offer any solace to anyone who might become pregnant or whose miscarriage might be treated as a crime scene for police to investigate.

The foolishness of the argument that there’s nothing to see here other than the future of abortion law is underscored by some of what is said in its support. We’re told not to worry about the future of decisions like Loving v Virginia, ensuring the right to marry someone of a different race than your own because, after all, Justice Clarence Thomas is in an interracial marriage. We’re told not to worry about the right to same-sex marriage because, after all, Justice Brett Kavanaugh would never vote to overturn Obergefell v Hodges, the most iconic opinion written by his proud mentor, Anthony Kennedy – the man who left the court only after he had hand-picked Kavanaugh as his successor. We’re told not to worry about contraception (despite the way quite a few people view Plan B or IUDs as forms of abortion) because even supreme court nominees like Amy Coney Barrett, who were cagey about just how “settled” a precedent they deemed Roe v Wade, said they couldn’t imagine anybody today challenging Griswold v Connecticut. All that prognostication is cold comfort to the millions of people whose lives are profoundly affected by these shaky predictions.

The most substantial argument is one that is equally fallacious but more sophisticated and in some ways more devious and dangerous: it is the argument that supreme court reversals of precedent, like the reversal of Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board of Education, are often to be welcomed as needed course corrections, and that this “course correction” wouldn’t be the first time the supreme court has rolled back decades-old constitutional rights. The many commentators who persisted in describing Alito’s draft in those terms – as an unprecedented retreat in the arc of ever-expanding rights – have recently been denounced as either inexcusably ignorant or deliberately duplicitous by distinguished scholars like Yale’s Akhil Amar, who says that every first-year law student learns that the very same thing happened during FDR’s second term as president, when the supreme court in 1937 in West Coast Hotel v Parrish overturned a long line of decisions that had blocked minimum wage and maximum hours and other worker-protection laws in the name of employers’ rights of “private property” and the “liberty of contract”. To be sure, Amar’s argument echoes that of the Alito draft, which cites Parrish and says, in effect, “nothing to see here, we did the same thing before” when we rolled back the liberty of contract line of decisions in 1937.

Justice Alito and Professor Amar are simply wrong: profoundly so. That so-called (and quite misleadingly labeled) “switch in time that saved the nine” was nothing like the switch that Dobbs would represent. The 1937 “switch” was no sudden politically driven turnabout but was in fact the culmination of long-simmering movements in legal and economic thought – movements that were reflected both in scholarship and in judicial opinions from the earliest days of the 20th century in places like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’ dissent in Lochner v New York insisting that “the 14th amendment does not enact Mr Herbert Spencer’s social statics,” movements that represented the growing conviction that the “freedom” to work at low wages and in miserable conditions was an illusion lacking both moral and legal foundations and one that simply helped perpetuate economic inequality and the exploitation of relatively powerless, not-yet-unionized workers by wealthy and powerful corporations.

Indeed, it is noteworthy that West Coast Hotel v Parrishthe 29 March 1937 decision that is usually marked as the pivot point in the great constitutional upheaval – was handed down by precisely the same set of nine justices as the nine who had rendered a decision pointing in the opposite direction less than a year earlier, on 1 June 1936, in Morehead v New York ex rel Tipaldo. One justice of the nine, a moderate Republican named Owen J Roberts, who had been rethinking his position on the underlying legal theories, had foreshadowed his shifting views by writing a landmark opinion upholding milk price regulation, Nebbia v New York, by a 5-4 vote in 1934 – less than two months after the court had upheld a state mortgage moratorium law by a 5-4 vote in Home Building & Loan Ass’n v Blaisdell, a decision clearly foreshadowing the 1937 repudiation of Lochner’s legacy by reconceiving the meaning of the constitution’s clause forbidding all state impairments of the obligation of contracts.

That history is important to keep in mind if one is to understand the depth of the error made by those who seek to compare the 2022 tsunami that Dobbs would represent with the gradual shift in current represented by the 1937 movement away from liberty of contract to protection of workers and consumers. The head-spinning and altogether untimely switch in the supreme court’s abortion jurisprudence that Dobbs would represent – if the decision the court announces late this June or early July is in substance what the leaked Alito draft indicated it would be – will reflect not the steady maturation of a long-developing jurisprudential movement but the crude payoff to a partisan political program to take over the federal judiciary, one beginning with Ronald Reagan’s presidency and the rise of the Federalist Society, and advancing with supreme court appointments made by Republican presidents all of whom lost the popular vote (George W Bush, appointing Justice Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts; Donald J Trump, appointing Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett), and made in circumstances of dubious legitimacy.

Professor Amar treats as laughably naïve the observation by ACLU national legal director and Georgetown law professor David Cole that, although “Parrish took away some rights of business owners … its real effect was to expand rights protections for millions of Americans subject to exploitation by powerful corporations.” Amar’s rebuttal? He says, and I’m serious here, that it’d be equally legitimate to say that “Dobbs’ real effect would be to expand rights protection for millions of innocent, unborn Americans … unborn humans, subject to extermination by society.”
It’s hard to know where to begin in unraveling that alleged parallel. Suffice it to note that the status as rights-bearing persons of embryos and fetuses remains a matter of profound sectarian controversy in America and throughout the world while no such controversy attends the status as rights-bearing persons of the array of workers whose rights, at least under laws designed to limit economic exploitation if not directly under the constitution itself, were indisputably expanded by virtue of the Parrish decision and the overturning of the Lochner line of cases.

Perhaps no less important is the indisputable fact that, although there remain a few commentators who continue to think that Lochner was rightly decided and Parrish was wrong, there is a nearly universal consensus, certainly covering the ideological spectrum on the current supreme court, that the “rights” protected by Lochner and the other decisions that Parrish tossed into the dustbin of history were not constitutionally sacrosanct, and that inequalities of bargaining power prevented the common-law baseline that Lochner treated as immune to legislative modification from having any special constitutional status. At the same time, the notions of personal autonomy and bodily integrity that provide the constitutional foundation for the substantive “liberty” at stake in cases like Roe and Casey are almost universally accepted as real, although deep disagreements remain about whether, to what degree, and from what point in fetal development the protection of the unborn fetus can properly trump that liberty.

The upshot is that the radical change in law and society that Dobbs would represent truly has no parallel in the history of the supreme court or in the history of the United States. As David Cole writes, the “proper analogy is not Brown overruling Plessy, but a decision reviving Plessy, reversing Brown, and relegating Black people to enforced segregation after nearly 70 years of equal protection.” For, as Jamelle Bouie rightly observed, “equal standing is undermined and eroded when the state can effectively seize your person for its own ends – that is, when it can force you to give birth.” Whether or not one compares that compulsion and forced labor to literal enslavement, as I did in my 1973 article on Roe v Wade, attempts to minimize the huge retrogression this would represent must be dismissed as little more than shameful efforts to camouflage the carnage the supreme court of the United States is about to unleash both on its own legitimacy and, even more important, on the people in whose name it wields the power of judicial review.
  • Laurence H Tribe is the Carl M Loeb University Professor of Constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard University, the author of numerous books and articles, a distinguished supreme court advocate, and holder of 11 honorary degrees

Literally half this article has nothing to do with Dobbs or Roe.

"If the law's on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither are on your side, throw an autistic shitfit".
 
Just in case anyone here accidentally walks near a Penis-Haver and find themselves miraculously surviving childbirth and it's 6,000% death rate, here's some advice on handling an infant:

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I know you're crazy but have you ever interacted with a baby? I have, and while I'm generally a germaphobic mess the baby was still cute and amusing. Kids in general can be.

I don't get how someone can just blanket hate kids of all types, man. It's downright anti-human.
Yep, they're nasty and interacting with them is how I know damn well I'd snap and kill any I was the sole caretaker of. Humans managed to get the ugliest, nastiest babies that are the worst to gestate and birth.
Just in case anyone here accidentally walks near a Penis-Haver and find themselves miraculously surviving childbirth and it's 6,000% death rate, here's some advice on handling an infant:

View attachment 3315527
Actually the don't ones might be pretty good ideas if you live in a red state and couldn't abort your crotch maggot as an embryo
 
And those are all perfectly good reasons to have an abortion since kids are fucking expensive and hard to take care of properly.
You're not allowed to kill a human being just because their existence is costing you money and effort. That's not a justification or excuse for homicide in Western Civilization. If you want to argue that an individual can kill her children because she has determined their existence is expensive or inconvenient to her, you have to argue we can kill anybody we find expensive or inconvenient. I'd thrive in that world; I'm a net taxpayer and live a quiet, peaceable life. Statistically, I'm going to marry a woman who makes less money than me and and will provide her some degree of support; if I decide she's too expensive I can kill her, too. Good job, you've taken us back to the Roman paterfamilias.

Not every woman wants to be like Jill Rodrigues and just pop out kids until she physically can't, only to shove them in an RV and starve them because feeding 13 kids is expensive.
I have no idea who that is and I don't care.
 
Imagine being so privileged that at 15 you were not working a summer job or had some form of basic income for pocket cash.

At least baby sit if you hate the sun, teens.



Ah yes, I suppose that could take away from League of Legends time or whatever.

If you are…
1. So poor you can’t afford a bus.
2. Unable to get one day of PTO
3. Already have kids.

Congrats, you are retarded, should give up the kids to their grandparents and neck yourself for not only being irresponsible drug addict or whatever for you to get into this mess, but a legit monster and loser in society.

The only person to blame at that point is you. And before you say “but…but… my rapes…” get a plan B then. Holy shit, lol.
Not everyone has parents who make their kids work for their pocket money. A LOT of parents love the idea of making their kids utterly financially dependent on them, since it makes it easier for them to control/micromanage their lives. And babysitting is a joke, since most families won't hire strangers when they can gangpress a relative or a relatives' kid to work for free.

Personal story; my mom never gave me an allowance growing up and I had to basically bum money off of her if I ever wanted anything as a teenager as far as being at the mercy of her whims and moods. She wouldn't let me have a job as a teen, since "she felt it would distract me from my schoolwork" and if I ever did anything she disliked or got into trouble at school or didn't pass my classes, she would withhold money from me for extras as punishment. And this was in the 90s, when you didn't have the potential for side hustle crap like kids today have with online stuff.

Also, in this day and age with high gas prices, a lot of parents don't want their kids working after school gigs because "the money they make working part time ends up going entirely to paying for gas to drive to their job". At the height of the gas hike of the 00s, I had a couple of adult friends say they wouldn't let their kids work because of that above logic that their kids would be effectively working for free due to the high gas prices of the 00s.

Finally, you clearly don't work a real job in the real world. Unless you are white collar or work in an office job or union job, paid time office is a shrill shrieking lie that most Americans don't have fucking access to. If you work a crappy non-union service industry job, you DON'T have paid time off PERIOD. You either have to PRAY TO CHRIST that you have a sympathetic manager who will work with you to re-arrange your schedule to give you a regular unpaid day off (and just a single day off) so you can to get an abortion with the understanding you'll report to work the next day, or run the risk of being fired by taking the day off without telling anyone to get that baby killed and lose a day or two worth of pay while hoping your boss doesn't fire you for skipping.
 
You're not allowed to kill a human being just because their existence is costing you money and effort. That's not a justification or excuse for homicide in Western Civilization. If you want to argue that an individual can kill her children because she has determined their existence is expensive or inconvenient to her, you have to argue we can kill anybody we find expensive or inconvenient. I'd thrive in that world; I'm a net taxpayer and live a quiet, peaceable life. Statistically, I'm going to marry a woman who makes less money than me and and will provide her some degree of support; if I decide she's too expensive I can kill her, too. Good job, you've taken us back to the Roman paterfamilias.


I have no idea who that is and I don't care.
I have no idea either but I have a sense it's probably another plank in my argument that if Null nuked the Beauty Parlor and all its inhabitants from orbit the site would improve drastically.
 
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Nah I didn't have to ask my parents to know what they thought of me, since they made it pretty clear daily
Serious talk (God, I can't believe I'm doing this) but: You know your goal should have been overcoming the abuse, moving past it, and developing a good, stable life. To grow beyond the fear and misery of your youth and become something more.

You don't HAVE to live in your parent's shadow all your life. You don't have to prove them right. You CAN be more than just defined by your abuse and mental illness, right?

You don't HAVE to let them ruin your life. You can move on.

I mean, you seem pretty miserable in every thread, with your infanticide fantasies and your crippling fear of pregnancy.

You CAN rise above it all.

I really do hope you can find peace and learn to enjoy life without the constant thoughts of infanticide and terror of pregnancy.
 
Serious talk (God, I can't believe I'm doing this) but: You know your goal should have been overcoming the abuse, moving past it, and developing a good, stable life. To grow beyond the fear and misery of your youth and become something more.

You don't HAVE to live in your parent's shadow all your life. You don't have to prove them right. You CAN be more than just defined by your abuse and mental illness, right?

You don't HAVE to let them ruin your life. You can move on.

I mean, you seem pretty miserable in every thread, with your infanticide fantasies and your crippling fear of pregnancy.

You CAN rise above it all.

I really do hope you can find peace and learn to enjoy life without the constant thoughts of infanticide and terror of pregnancy.
I also don't have to gestate an unwanted pregnancy and legal or not if I get pregnant, abortion is the best choice by far for everyone

Especially since my crazy ass would be a prime candidate for post partum psychosis
 
I also don't have to gestate an unwanted pregnancy and legal or not if I get pregnant, abortion is the best choice by far for everyone
Well, according to you, you aren't planning on riding any dicks any time soon, so you should be safe from it.

Still, just try to overcome all of that. Just... try.
 
You're not allowed to kill a human being just because their existence is costing you money and effort. That's not a justification or excuse for homicide in Western Civilization.

And if it is, then I'm SO GLAD YOU SEE IT THAT WAY.

Because next we need to completely end welfare, food stamps, WIC, and EBT, oh--and completely defund Medicaid.
 
Well, according to you, you aren't planning on riding any dicks any time soon, so you should be safe from it.

Still, just try to overcome all of that. Just... try.
Unfortunately some dudes enjoy sticking their dicks in people who don't want them in their bodies. This is why even children, who are incapable of consenting to sex, sometimes get pregnant and need abortions.
 
Unfortunately some dudes enjoy sticking their dicks in people who don't want them in their bodies. This is why even children, who are incapable of consenting to sex, sometimes get pregnant and need abortions.
Christ, you're so far up your own ass that I say "Please try to be healthy and learn to live life instead of wallowing in your childhood abuse" and all you can do is "REEEEEEE! RAPE!"

NEvermind. I'm sorry I even fucking tried, you sped.
 
At 15 I could afford neither fast food nor a greyhound ride. I got money twice a year, at Xmas and my birthday and that was it.

There's also the fact that driving to a whole ass different state costs time as well, which poor women especially tend to not have in abundance especially if they already have kids (which is a good chunk of women who get abortions, women who already have kids and know they can't afford more).
It's probably already been said but I'm not reading ten pages: Man, this is always the worst excuse I see. "I can't afford it." My sister was perfectly able to afford birth control, and "morning after pills" and she neither had a job and my parents didn't give her money a lot of it came from either hospitals who were happy to share a few options or by pleading a random person in a grocery store to do random things like carry an old person's bags which people seeing a desperate girl in need were more than happy too. You don't even have to have the abortions most of the time if you get the first two options (bc/mapill ) and before "but sometimes it doesn't work." Ok, if you're that afraid of the risk or certain it's going to happen like that try not being a slut. Shocking I know.

Before you go "I couldn't go to the hospital or grocerery store." Then holy hell how did you survive major illnesses? If that's the case abortions are the worst of your worries. " But condoms fail." Very low chance, and there's very unlikely chance that a majority of abortions are from fails, I've known plenty of women who purposely got pregnant an then tried to blame bc/etc. when they didn't even use them. Trust the science/math. In before incest, rape excuse less than 5% of abortions at best 10%. I dunno carry a defense weapon or a gun, don't be a pathetic leftist afraid to use one?
 
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Christ, you're so far up your own ass that I say "Please try to be healthy and learn to live life instead of wallowing in your childhood abuse" and all you can do is "REEEEEEE! RAPE!"

NEvermind. I'm sorry I even fucking tried, you sped.
Normally when I see someone with a crippling fixation on their fears this severe I suggest they just rip the bandage off, do it, get it over with, see that they can live through it. "Fear is the mindkiller," etc. In this case, I don't think that will work.
 
Nah I didn't have to ask my parents to know what they thought of me, since they made it pretty clear daily
bitch got more issues than vogue. You're worse than a Jew at making yourself the victim. Get over your parents abuse of you because every moment you cry about muh abuse they are winning. Your dumb ass is taking that abuse and perpetuating it on yourself when the parents are long gone. Come out of your shell and actually be a human instead of being the same little girl that your parents fucked up. If you get raped, all you have to do is contact a hotline and they'll arrange the details for you to come and murder your baby. I hear they'll even move your feet for your self victimizing ass.
 
Not everyone has parents who make their kids work for their pocket money. A LOT of parents love the idea of making their kids utterly financially dependent on them, since it makes it easier for them to control/micromanage their lives. And babysitting is a joke, since most families won't hire strangers when they can gangpress a relative or a relatives' kid to work for free.

Personal story; my mom never gave me an allowance growing up and I had to basically bum money off of her if I ever wanted anything as a teenager as far as being at the mercy of her whims and moods. She wouldn't let me have a job as a teen, since "she felt it would distract me from my schoolwork" and if I ever did anything she disliked or got into trouble at school or didn't pass my classes, she would withhold money from me for extras as punishment. And this was in the 90s, when you didn't have the potential for side hustle crap like kids today have with online stuff.

Also, in this day and age with high gas prices, a lot of parents don't want their kids working after school gigs because "the money they make working part time ends up going entirely to paying for gas to drive to their job". At the height of the gas hike of the 00s, I had a couple of adult friends say they wouldn't let their kids work because of that above logic that their kids would be effectively working for free due to the high gas prices of the 00s.

Finally, you clearly don't work a real job in the real world. Unless you are white collar or work in an office job or union job, paid time office is a shrill shrieking lie that most Americans don't have fucking access to. If you work a crappy non-union service industry job, you DON'T have paid time off PERIOD. You either have to PRAY TO CHRIST that you have a sympathetic manager who will work with you to re-arrange your schedule to give you a regular unpaid day off (and just a single day off) so you can to get an abortion with the understanding you'll report to work the next day, or run the risk of being fired by taking the day off without telling anyone to get that baby killed and lose a day or two worth of pay while hoping your boss doesn't fire you for skipping.
I don't get what the point of all this is. If you are a kid living at home with a mean mom in the 90s, try not fucking around and getting pregnant. If you work a shit job, try not fucking around and getting pregnant. If you can't afford gas to drive to an abortion (??) don't fuck around, you won't get pregnant.

Pursue virtue and cultivate a monogamous relationship with someone who cares about you as a person rather than fucking around and all of these problems magically go away. Shit is still rough, gas is still expensive, jobs still suck, but you get through it together, as a family. Imagine that.
 
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