Crime Gunman at a Texas elementary school kills 19 students and two adults before being fatally shot, officials say - yeehaw

(CNN)A suspect is in custody after a shooting incident at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, left at least two dead and injured 14 people, including students, authorities said.

The Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) posted about an "active shooter" at Robb Elementary at 12:17 p.m. local time and said law enforcement was on site.

The suspect was taken into custody as of 1:06 p.m. local time, according to the Uvalde Police Department.
Two have died after the shooting at Robb Elementary School, a spokesperson from Uvalde Memorial Hospital told CNN.

The hospital received 13 children at their facility who were being treated for varying injuries, he said. Two children were transported to San Antonio and another is pending transfer, Tom Nordwick said.

Additionally, two patients were dead on arrival, he said. Nordwick was not sure of the ages of the two deceased. A man in his 40s was also being treated there, he said.

Nordwick did not have conditions on any of the victims.

This is a developing story and will be updated.

 
NYT journos have been doing some digging into how Uvalde police were trained to respond to a mass/school shooting. Not too surprisingly, they were taught to do the correct thing - put aside any risk to their safety to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. The Uvalde school district also did an active shooter training sesh only 2 months ago. And yet they chose to ignore not only their moral responsibility to save innocent children, but also ignored their training.
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It just keep getting worse, at the rate we are going, we’re gonna be under hell and deep into the shadow realm.
 
"Nazi Infantry"...

Are you fucking kidding me?

AR-15s or Armalite AR-15 were made in the late 1950's by Colt I believe. How the fuck could Nazis make them?
I assume that they are taking a tiny nugget of information- that the german army fielded a very early version of the 'assault rifle' (intermediate caliber, capable of automatic fire, shorter barrel length) during the war and using it to poison the well by conflating that it's basically the same thing as an ar-15. This seems to be a curious position to stake out as it makes one wonder why a design that has been around since world war ii has suddenly become so dangerous.
I take it you're a close relative of that redditor that dreamed of taking on a T-84 with a bushmaster and can do spirit shortly before being blown away by a bemused tank crew.
Tanks do not hold territory.

Like, I get what you're saying and it's not wrong, but it assumes the sort of conventional conflict which does not happen anymore.

Remember Waco? Some nuts with small arms held off the federal government for how many weeks? How much money was spent there? Eventually they DID bring in the tanks and the place ended up scorched earth. Lotta dead kids. National scandal and, for some, a symbol (along with Ruby Ridge). Eventually the reverberations would include the Oklahoma City bombing. And that was one compound, one group, out in the wilderness where tanks could be used- yet federal agencies were stretched to the limit. What if there had been three such incidents at once? There's a reason the feds didn't try to storm the wildlife refuge and it wasn't because that bundy guy was white.

How would that look in the city? Well, we have a few examples, the most notorious of which might be Philadelphia's MOVE group. Local police dropped a bomb out of a helicopter on a residential area that eventually took out two city blocks in the blaze because of guys with rifles. The result was more dead kids and court findings that, no, you can't fucking do that (although that was about all that the courts did). It didn't seem to arouse as much infamy as you might think- either because the dead were black or because the movement had pissed off everyone in the city.

What about the exact scenario from this thread? One lunatic with an AR-15 held off dozens of heavily armed cops (with an armored vehicle!), who were trained to deal with this precise situation, until he had done tremendous damage.

It's weird that rifles are at once seen as toothless because "an AR can't kill a tank" but I've also that they are a '"threat to democracy" if there's a hint that they may be near a protest.

Edit: in any case, the origins of the reasoning behind the bill of rights are what they are, even if one thinks that they no longer apply (like if you think a nuclear bomb is a reasonable weapon in a civil disturbance).
 
article?

"Still, the elder Ramos insisted his son 'was a good person,' saying he dropped out of high school because he was bullied over his clothes."
Well then, now it makes sense. Who wants to bet the school tried to do something, but his crack hoe mother was convinced he was good didu and the school was racist or what the fuck over? God, so many deserve so much retributive justice!
 
Mulling over this, and seeing the Cable News Network's profile on the guy (to summarize, he had no support from dad, mum would rather string herself out than care for her kid along with no community support, that's combined with constant vicious bullying), it appears as if the shooter was a fatherless kid that was treated like he was the second coming of "el diablo".
The golden rule of society is to not do unto others as you wouldn't want done unto you. All the locals of Uvalde gave him was contempt or ignorance. If you give a kid hell, all the way into adulthood, what do you think will come out?

Columbine, Virginia Tech, the Santa-Monica fratricide, Sparks Middle School. Anything seem familiar between those shootings and this one?
There's also an argument to be made about pop culture being extremely drab and raising up single mothers at the expense of vilifying fathers.
 
Do you guys think the NRA convention should've been rescheduled for another week or somewhere around mid june?

Logistically impossible. Most of the booths at the NRA convention are small businesses who are trying to network with the larger firearms industry. These people can't afford to spend another week on a pricey business trip because some sped decided to shoot up a school (and the police decided to not respond.) It's hard enough raising the capital to attend one of these conventions in the first place; spending twice the allotted time on selling your wares makes going to the NRA show a net loss for most of the companies who have purchased space.

On top of that, a lot of the people there this year have been fucked by covid for the past two years due to the cancellations. The NRA can't have the companies running their booths at this event wait another year to get their space and network with larger companies or shill their wares to the attendants. They'd start asking for refunds, and the NRA can't have that.
 
The border patrol aren't the police that should be defunded. It's your local beat cops shaking down law abiding citizens and letting people shoot your kids that need to be put out of a job.
This I agree with unironically, they've proven themselves less than useless. Like the meme says, they're powerless to help you, not punish you. Also, I thought leftards hated border patrol because "no human being is illegal"
We don't have the 2nd Amendment for self-defense, hunting, or fun shooting sports.

The Founders of the USA didn't just get back from a sweet hunting weekend when they wrote the 2nd Amendment, they had just thrown off an oppressive tyrannical government.

The 2nd Amendment is for stopping government tyranny. Self-defense / hunting / etc are side benefits, not the use intended by the 2nd Amendment.

Pick up a history book (and a dictionary to learn how to spell 'successfully' and 'defense'). You're embarrassing yourself.
This idiot is probably the same kind of person who thinks unironically "oh no, people with rifles sick of me fucking with them are fighting back! Call in an airstrike...scratch that...an airstrike with a TACTICAL NUKE"
Nobody has been better at creating gun owners by making anti-gun arguments that are either silly, or, making the serious ones silly through their own mismanagement...

"You don't need a gun, you can just let the police handle it" - Marginally true in the 90's, completely untrue in the 20's with defunded police and those who remain being hamstrung by diversity and inclusion measures by diversity-hire superiors or just plain incompetent like these guys.

"You don't need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine, you think 30 people are going to show up on your lawn suddenly, form a mob, try and get you, and the police won't stop them?" - Far fetched scenario in the 90's, documented as actually happening in 2020 with BLM riots and civic "leaders" who stand down the police and refuse to prosecute the mob, but, will prosecute you for "threatening" them as they busted down your door.

The greatest advancement of gun rights the last decade and a half wasn't from the NRA, but, liberals who turned the screws too tight in an effort to just "gently nudge" everyone over to the right side, showing that even under draconian/silly rules, shootings still happen and they have no real solutions aside from the nebulous "expanded background checks" or the flat-out impossible (repeal the 2A) Except now they're doing it before the bodies are even cold, turning off even more people with the absolute naked partisanship.
30 rounds of 5.56 NATO wouldn't be enough for 30+ baddies showing up, I'd rather have the Devastator with 69 mini-rockets ready to go.

At the rate things are going, heavier shit than your local mom and pop shop can offer should also be protected by 2A. If the government is going to use it within its own borders, we should be allowed to own it ourselves.
 
Mulling over this, and seeing the Cable News Network's profile on the guy (to summarize, he had no support from dad, mum would rather string herself out than care for her kid along with no community support, that's combined with constant vicious bullying), it appears as if the shooter was a fatherless kid that was treated like he was the second coming of "el diablo".
The golden rule of society is to not do unto others as you wouldn't want done unto you. All the locals of Uvalde gave him was contempt or ignorance. If you give a kid hell, all the way into adulthood, what do you think will come out?

Columbine, Virginia Tech, the Santa-Monica fratricide, Sparks Middle School. Anything seem familiar between those shootings and this one?
There's also an argument to be made about pop culture being extremely drab and raising up single mothers at the expense of vilifying fathers.
The most tragic thing about the Dead Crackhead Riots of 2020 is that the half of the country that got burned down didn't include CNN.

I can't believe I have family members who actually watch that shit.
 
At the rate things are going, heavier shit than your local mom and pop shop can offer should also be protected by 2A. If the government is going to use it within its own borders, we should be allowed to own it ourselves.
With the argument people like to use about level of technology the founding fathers had we should be able to own artillery that can level the lot of a shopping mall but instead of a building comprised of drywall and plywood on the land it's a fort made of concrete and brick several feet thick.

It's amazing how the same people believe they are the arbiters of truth and "the science"(I hate religious people unaware that they're religious) unaware of basic history they learned every year for 13 years of their life. more if they went to college and decided to take US history courses.
 
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Some woman linking the gun debate to abortion and saying that you can’t be pro-gun and pro-life
Pro lifers should be supporting school shootings at this point.
School zones are huge and they're 24/7. I committed a felony by taking out the trash at night because there's a school somewhere around. I can't see it, and there are no students or teachers there in the middle of the night, but it's still a school zone. I didn't intend to enter the school zone, I was locked out and had to step into the alley to walk to another door, but it was still a felony. It's an insane law.
The whole idea of that is just absurd. People demanding gun free zones have a mosquito buzzing around their head. Normally, if you have a mosquito buzzing around you, you'd swat it and kill it. But anti-gunners? They let it fly into their ear canals and nest behind their retinas.
Hey I don't want to take your guns, more dead americans means something to make small talk over. Buy ten more if you want.
Europe still has monarchies, seems like you're a few hundred years behind. Also we went over how the US doesn't rank high in gun deaths like 40 something pages ago.
Now upstate New York and Long Island are completely fucking cucked. Most people hear the nightmares of Bronx/Queens/Brooklyn/Manhattan and assume the entire state is the same way.
Bail Reform.
 
Mulling over this, and seeing the Cable News Network's profile on the guy (to summarize, he had no support from dad, mum would rather string herself out than care for her kid along with no community support, that's combined with constant vicious bullying), it appears as if the shooter was a fatherless kid that was treated like he was the second coming of "el diablo".
The golden rule of society is to not do unto others as you wouldn't want done unto you. All the locals of Uvalde gave him was contempt or ignorance. If you give a kid hell, all the way into adulthood, what do you think will come out?

Columbine, Virginia Tech, the Santa-Monica fratricide, Sparks Middle School. Anything seem familiar between those shootings and this one?
There's also an argument to be made about pop culture being extremely drab and raising up single mothers at the expense of vilifying fathers.
That reminds me of this article of American Thinker. https://www.americanthinker.com/art...otings_if_it_was_simple_wed_have_done_it.html

May 28, 2022

School Shootings: If It Was Simple, We’d Have Done It​

By Steve Feinstein

There are no easy answers for school shootings. If there were, we’d have done it by now. But that doesn’t mean there are none at all. There are, but they’re neither simple nor easy and they’re exceedingly difficult to hear and acknowledge, especially for the stubbornly unintellectual.
There are several broad categories of American societal norms that have changed dramatically in recent times that exacerbate the aberrant tendencies in emotionally conflicted young people. These have occurred mainly since the 1960s, for the last few generations, Baby Boomers to Gen Xers to Millennials.
  1. There is a markedly lessened sense of absolute right and wrong
This has come about primarily from lower religious participation than was normal several decades ago. This is merely an observation, not a promotion of any specific religion. However, what the presence of religion in everyday American life did was to cement the notion of an absolute right and wrong, especially in the minds of children. The parents in a household conveyed the tenets of correct behavior to their children (even as the kids squirmed and fussed when sitting in church or synagogue), and in the back of their young minds, every nine-year-old grew up knowing what was and wasn’t acceptable conduct.
Religion also served to illustrate the existence of a chain of unquestioned authority and it further demonstrated that there were unpleasant consequences for violating the decorum of socially acceptable practices. Note that in past decades, these concepts of absolute right and wrong and a chain of authority permeated throughout American culture amongst all the inhabitants, not merely among faithful religious attendees. In the 1960s, the awareness of ideas like the Golden Rule, the Ten Commandments, respect for law enforcement, fear of the principal’s office, etc. were part and parcel of American thought.
These thoughts diminished considerably as the 1960s turned into the 1980s and 1990s. Religious participation went down, with a lower and lower percentage of the American public attending services on a regular basis. This has led to a corresponding reduction in the highly beneficial societal effects that come from the religious teachings of moral correctness and respect for authority. Again, to reiterate the point: Religious attendance didn’t need to be at the 100% level for these concepts to be widely accepted as “normal.” Religious participation just needed to achieve so-called critical mass and having done so, all of American society benefitted accordingly. Today, America has slipped well below critical mass.
  1. Since the 1990s, young people have been increasingly indulged and made to feel entitled
American culture has dramatically lowered the expectations and standards of achievement for our youth. Sometime in the 1990s, ideas like “participation trophies” and organized sports games with no winners or losers took hold. Nonaccountability became the norm. “It’s never your fault” has now become the accepted way.
Our adult daughter lives in Europe. In her country, the scores of kids’ games matter, and there are winners and losers, at all ages. Children are accountable, not coddled. The scores count, their grades count, there are no automatic do-overs, and the goal isn’t to protect children from any negative feelings whatsoever. The term “self-esteem” may not even exist there. On the contrary, in her country, children learn to deal with personal disappointment, grow from the experience and move on.

And they're on a roll, they posted an other article about Uvalde. https://www.americanthinker.com/art...tical_failures_led_to_the_uvalde_tragedy.html
May 28, 2022

A Series Of Critical Failures Led To The Uvalde Tragedy​

By Ted Noel

With all the noise about the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, it’s easy for the voice of reason to be lost. Gefühl über alles! Emotion above all! The only thing that matters is our anger. That’s how Hitler launched the Holocaust. He demonized non-Germans and non-Aryans, stirring massive hatred that led to the deaths of millions. And hatred is all that the Left is purveying in the wake of the evil manifested in Texas. However, a critical analysis reveals that a gun was only the last cause, not the only one.
This isn’t the place to recite statistics on gun ownership, gun crime, and defensive use of firearms. Those are well handled elsewhere. We have a classroom full of innocent children lying on slabs in the local morgue, not due to any actions by an AR-15, but by the actions of a demented eighteen-year-old, made possible by a chain of critical incidents. This is where we should look. But first, an illustration of the process.

On December 29, 1972, around midnight, Eastern Airlines flight 401 from New York crashed into the Everglades, killing 101 of the 176 people on board. The National Transportation Safety Board investigated the crash and slowly assembled the sequence of events that led to it.
As the plane descended into Miami, the crew noticed that the indicator light for the nose gear being “down and locked” was unlit. Landing without nose gear would be a major hazard, so the crew took manual measures to ensure that the gear was down. The light stayed dark, though, because it was burned out, not because the gear wasn’t down. So, the plane entered a holding pattern over the Everglades to sort out the problem. The crew engaged the autopilot to reduce workload.
While crew members were in the avionics bay below the cockpit, the autopilot changed modes when the pilot gently leaned on the yoke as he turned to discuss the gear difficulty with the copilot. The jet slowly drifted down toward the surface. No one noticed, partly because it was late at night and there were no lights on the ground. When the crew finally noticed a problem with the plane’s altitude, there was no time to correct it.

There were a number of steps in this daisy chain of disaster that, had any one of them been effectively interrupted, would have seen the plane land safely. Each error had to be in the critical incident chain, or nothing bad would have happened. Let’s put that in plain English: Any single change in the critical events would have saved 101 lives. And that includes having the senior, highly experienced pilot fly the plane instead of leaning on the yoke accidentally.
This process is “critical incident analysis.” It identifies every moment when someone can “put a finger in the dike” to prevent a bad event. So, let’s start with the screaming lefties. They want “common sense gun laws” and other pablum. Space prevents a full discussion but they don’t offer a single reason why any of their nostrums would change a single step in the chain. So, their approach must be discarded out of hand.
This leads us to the predictable Republicans. “He was mentally disturbed. We need more mental health services.” And so on. Perhaps the much-touted but unconstitutional Red Flag laws would have helped? Texas doesn’t have a Red Flag law but the Texas Health and Safety Code Chapter 573 allows a police officer to detain someone who appears to be mentally unstable and a likely danger to others. Any weapons can be put into lockup. But no one bothered to tell the cops that the future shooter was coco-loco. They saw his posts, and he was a known bad apple, but this link in the chain didn’t get broken.
By not breaking that link, the shooter was able to buy guns because he didn’t have any red flags in the NICS database. This isn’t the first time that’s happened. Dylann Roof bought his gun “legally” because a police department didn’t report his arrest on a drug charge. Nine people died at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, because that link was still intact.
Details remain unclear, but the shooter in Uvalde drove to the school and then crashed his vehicle. An eyewitness reports that he fired on nearby people as he left the truck. It was twelve minutes before he entered the school. It’s unclear why either the police or the school did not get the message that he was headed to the school. Had that message been passed on, the school could have locked down, preventing his entry. This isn’t new, since Uvalde schools get locked down almost every week due to violence related to illegal immigration. Another link in the chain remained intact.
Related to this link is the fact that the back door of the school was unlocked. Had entry been restricted to one or two monitored points, his gun would never have been pointed at defenseless children. And that brings us to the last link in this critical incident chain.

 
I do not know a single firearms owner or enthusiast under the age of 55 who supports the NRA and the grifters who run it.
The NRA is not a firearms rights organization. At best, it used to be an industry advocacy organization shilling for gunmakers.
Now it's just a fundraising tool.
The pity of this is that Wayne LaPierre will use this event to shake down a bunch of gullible Boomer fudds, getting them to send in more donations so he can buy another closet full of Italian designer suits.
It's gotten to a point where other firearm organizations get shilled by your local mom and pop gun shop like Second Amendment Foundation, Firearms Policy Coalition, and GOA or even state firearm gun lobbies.
 
Is 'teacher' a singular person in these three instances? Or were these different people? If the teacher that propped open the door and called 911 I would put that failure on par with the local cops. Edit to add: I guess this will be the end of hearing about people advocating for 'Open Door' policies...
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The cops are still impotent, worthless pieces of shit. That said, they wouldn't have been in a position to make such a terrible call if this certified Woman Moment didn't happen.
Same teacher. According to McCraw's statements at the press conference, she propped the door and went outside at 11:27. I'm presuming for a smoke. 11:28, she sees the truck crash and runs back to room 132 for her phone (according to McCraw). She's back outside (or heading there) calling 911 at 11:30.

By that time, the two guys from the funeral home have approached the vehicle but are being driven off by Ramos. The teacher tells 911 that shots are being fired. Ramos moves towards the school and is crouched behind car at 11:31 when ISD Resource officer (who wasn't on scene, but apparently heard the 911 dispatcher's radio call and was somehow on scene a minute later and drove by Ramos, thinking the teacher (a teacher? different teacher?) was the shooter -- that sounds like bullshit to me, the time makes no sense.)

Also, the 911 call was made at 11:30. According to the press conference, cops were at the funeral home at 11:31. Tjhat also makes no sense unless they were already following Ramos causing the accident, or if they just happened to be parked there already.

No mention of ISD officer going forward in the press conference, but Ramos started shooting outside the school and entered it at 11:33 throuigh the propped door. Presumably, that's where the teacher and the ISD officer went without closing the door.

That teacher is fucked, but maybe that will be forgotten in what the police did.
Nobody needs the BFG-9000!
Little known fact. They used to just be called BFGs, but after the anti-gun laws of 2083, they were renamed, since, by law, you had to keep them behind 9000 servers.
 
That teacher is fucked, but maybe that will be forgotten in what the police did.
So it wasn't even one of the teachers that wound up dying?! This just gets worse and worse. I'm not going to pretend I don't know how annoying auto-closers are or how hard it is to ignore the call of the siren Nicotine, but fucking hell think about the rules when you bend/break them! Stay within eye-sight of the door you prop, it's only done for yourself. Always unprop the door on re-entry. This is basic security shit when there isn't fucking gunfire going on outside. I understand this is partly due to panic but this is like a driver who lost control throwing their hands up and stomping their feet to handle it. Regardless of what happens afterwards, that is ultimately the failure that lead to this many bodies. If they lived I hope this haunts them.
 
Just a layout for those interested...

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Considering firearms are only succesfully used in self defence in less than 1% of cases and having a gun on you is more likely to result in your death in a mugging, you'll have to be more specific.

and seethe
except that's only *lethal* instances of self defense. One can defend themselves without killing the assailant or even firing a shot.
 
I take it you're a close relative of that redditor that dreamed of taking on a T-84 with a bushmaster and can do spirit shortly before being blown away by a bemused tank crew.
Tanks don't hold territory. Tanks dont do midnight raids for contraband. Tank crews need to eat, sleep and shit. Tanks need regular maintenance. Tanks are far from impervious.
 
I've don't understand why schools still insist on the lockdown procedure. Even when I was a kid, I wondered how it makes sense to all huddle up and stay in the classroom when realistically if someone's going to shoot up our school, they're going to target classrooms during school hours and we're all just sitting there like nice meaty targets? You really think they're going to nicely knock on the door and if no one answers, they're just going to be like, "oh this one's empty" like they do in the drills? The fact that school shooters are often young, and have presumably gone through these lockdown drills every year for most of their lives, means they KNOW all of those classrooms are full of kids just sitting there, and if they actually want to kill people, they're going to.

We do safety training every year at my company and the rule is "run, hide, fight". You only hide if there's no way for you to safely evacuate and you need to barricade the fuck out of every door. You need to have escape routes and know your emergency exits. I know the complaint is always "We ShOuLdN't HaVe To TeACh KiDs ThEsE tHiNgS!" but lunatics are still going to kill people even if guns were banned, and we're just teaching kids to sit and wait. Sit and wait for someone to come in with a knife or a homemade bomb and get yet another high score because you're not teaching them to GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE ATTACKER.
I’m going to guess someone is still stuck in the 50s when the thing to worry about was nukes being launched. At least fire drills still seem logical.
I do not know a single firearms owner or enthusiast under the age of 55 who supports the NRA and the grifters who run it.
The NRA is not a firearms rights organization. At best, it used to be an industry advocacy organization shilling for gunmakers.
Now it's just a fundraising tool.
The pity of this is that Wayne LaPierre will use this event to shake down a bunch of gullible Boomer fudds, getting them to send in more donations so he can buy another closet full of Italian designer suits.
If the NRA is useless, who else is there to advocate for gun owners besides the owners themselves?
 
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