Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

[DumbDude42]

Russian wanting older recruits is bad, but Zalensky offering children rifles and molotovs is heroic and brave.

getting desperate when you are surprise invaded by a much larger neighboring country is understandable
getting desperate in an offensive war you chose to start in the first place is just pathetic

 

[Ponzo]

getting desperate in an offensive war you chose to start in the first place is just pathetic

Look at the sheer amount of troops that Russia was able to mobilize in WW2, i doubt even 250k soldiers are currently fighting on Russias side.

 

[Su-27 Flanker-B]

I was never talking about infantry, I'm saying the whole "Hurr durr the guy in charge of Ukraine's military was trained by the US Army and this is just like the Americans vs British!!!" point is inapplicable.

British are relevant though as even the BBC is touting this apparent new media agenda.
(archive)
(link)

I love this bit

The leaders of France and Germany have urged Russia's Vladimir Putin to hold "direct [and] serious negotiations" with Ukraine's president, the German chancellor's office said.

I believe it was ukrainians whi withdrew from talks. At this point I believe the "serious negotiations" mean "retreat from ukraine then we *might* talk with you".

 

[White_N]

I wonder if they offered something in return?

Based on previous proposals, they most likely offered to lift 0.2 percent of sanctions in exchange for his agreement to be deposed.

 

[Ponzo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860595/US-ready-send-long-range-rocket-artillery-Ukraine.html

 

[The Ugly One]

Burn that shit down, I suppose. The shells were made in the 1960s. I have no idea how effective they are now, but they're beautiful.

No one is encroaching on your pension, my friend.

It's just kids playing video games and using tactics from a real-life combat conflict.

Things I learned from this war that helped me in war strategy games:

1. Don't send your paratroopers off by themselves. Just use them to support an existing objective, and hook them up with the main forces ASAP
2. Big, sexy maneuvers like the Kesselschlacht and the decapitation strike are extremely hard to pull off reliably. Just have a really good fundamental game of keeping your front supplied and advancing on key positions.
3. Don't worry about overpriced wunderwaffen. Units that are adequate, able to be fielded in large numbers, and easy to supply & repair are far more worth it.
4. Prioritize destroying the enemy's army before capturing a city. The city isn't going anywhere.
5. Sieges never lose their relevance.
6. The purpose of your air power is to support ground objectives.
7. CAS is your air force's most valuable role.
8. On the ground, artillery is king. If you can get your artillery into an impenetrable position near an objective, you've already won it.

 

[Hell on Earth]

Look at this beast/monstruosity :



It's a Ukrainian DShKM machine gun

EDIT : btw, there's reports that Severodonetsk has fallen but take the reports with a grain of salt.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

All of this insurgency talk would have some kind of merit if we were talking about western Ukraine but it just so happens that much of eastern Ukraine is Russian-speaking and the Russians have a solid base of pro-Russian sentiment in eastern Ukraine.

Your invincible insurgency has done negligible damage to the Russians so far and most of the damage inflicted to the Russians was done by the actual Ukrainian military.

And acting as if the Ukrainians have the same amount of materiel and equipment as the Russians is laughable (I can't remember how many videos and reports i've been seeing and reading about Ukrainians complaining about low morale, low supplies and low ammo)

I never said anything about a Ukrainian insurgency fighting the Russians now. I explained what would have caused an insurgency. If they Russians had been successful in Western Ukraine and had to occupy Ukraine it would have led to an insurgency. I never said the Russians are fighting a Ukrainian insurgency now. Of course, they are fighting the Ukrainian military because they failed to take Kiev and topple the Ukrainian government.

That's Eastern Ukraine which is much smaller than Western. They can have all the pro-Russian sentiment they want. They are still in Ukraine. They are looking for support from Russia which is being defeated by Ukraine. I think they have a decision to make very soon. Either be Ukrainian or go live in Russia.

The Ukrainian army sure has done some damage to the Russians though. Almost 30,000 Russians killed in a few months. That's pretty bad. The US lost 50,000 soldiers in Vietnam in a decade. The Russians have lost nearly 30,000 in 3 months. Russia's population has been declining since the 70's. That's definitely not good.

Where did I say the Ukrainians have the same amount of equipment as the Russians? I never said that anywhere. The Russians have more equipment but how much of it is in operational order? Reports coming out of Ukraine are saying that the Russian vehicles they have found abandoned and the ones that the Ukrainians have captured are in terrible condition. Showing that the Russians aren't doing the routine maintenance on these vehicles while they keep them in storage. They aren't doing it because they can't afford it and the Russian military is very corrupt. Also, all that equipment has to have soldiers assigned to it to be effective. A Russian tank needs 3 men. The Russians most likely can't afford to pay enough soldiers to put in all their vehicles or to hold and fire all the guns they have. You can talk about Russia have 10,000 tanks, probably a bit less now thanks to Ukraine, but how many of them are operational? How many have been used for parts? Fielding all those tanks cost money as well. Then you have all the support units that go along with the tanks. It all has to be operational, and the Russians have to be able to afford it.

 

[NynchLiggers]

They are looking for support from Russia which is being defeated by Ukraine.

lol, this may age well, but it's not the time to say this.
also nice sources bro

 

[Ponzo]

Uke agents assailing people in gas lines and giving them mobilization orders (Lvov)

Krasnopol hit on a group of Ukes - one survives to tell the tale…

Locals meet Dagestany servicemen returning from the Military zone.

EDIT : btw, there's reports that Severodonetsk has fallen but take the reports with a grain of salt.

Kadyrov announced the capture of the residential area of Severodonetsk and the ongoing cleansing of the city after the flight of units of the 115th Volkssturm Brigade, which abandoned its equipment in the city.

Melitopol

Video footage of the launch of the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile at a target in the White Sea, from the frigate 22350 of the Russian Navy.

 

[JosephStalin]

Notable.

Today's Russia isn't my namesake's Soviet Union. Thirty years of relative freedom is encouraging more and more people to speak out against the Russian war in Ukraine. Expect to see more such utterances as the grind goes on. Suggest many, many Russians are asking themselves how many Russian sons, brothers, fathers, and uncles have to die to feed one man's ego.

The Ukrainians know why they are fighting. More and more Russians have no idea why Russia is fighting; they see no benefit to the Rodina, just hardship. When the Soviet Union ended, said to myself, "Russia has found its' soul again." Like to think Russia is finding their soul yet again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/2-russian-lawmakers-branded-traitors-and-ordered-out-of-meeting-for-demanding-putin-end-invasion-of-ukraine/ar-AAXPimX?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL

https://archive.ph/ZAucg

 

[Hell on Earth]

I never said anything about a Ukrainian insurgency fighting the Russians now. I explained what would have caused an insurgency. If they Russians had been successful in Western Ukraine and had to occupy Ukraine it would have led to an insurgency. I never said the Russians are fighting a Ukrainian insurgency now. Of course, they are fighting the Ukrainian military because they failed to take Kiev and topple the Ukrainian government.

That's Eastern Ukraine which is much smaller than Western. They can have all the pro-Russian sentiment they want. They are still in Ukraine. They are looking for support from Russia which is being defeated by Ukraine. I think they have a decision to make very soon. Either be Ukrainian or go live in Russia.

The Ukrainian army sure has done some damage to the Russians though. Almost 30,000 Russians killed in a few months. That's pretty bad. The US lost 50,000 soldiers in Vietnam in a decade. The Russians have lost nearly 30,000 in 3 months. Russia's population has been declining since the 70's. That's definitely not good.

Where did I say the Ukrainians have the same amount of equipment as the Russians? I never said that anywhere. The Russians have more equipment but how much of it is in operational order? Reports coming out of Ukraine are saying that the Russian vehicles they have found abandoned and the ones that the Ukrainians have captured are in terrible condition. Showing that the Russians aren't doing the routine maintenance on these vehicles while they keep them in storage. They aren't doing it because they can't afford it and the Russian military is very corrupt. Also, all that equipment has to have soldiers assigned to it to be effective. A Russian tank needs 3 men. The Russians most likely can't afford to pay enough soldiers to put in all their vehicles or to hold and fire all the guns they have. You can talk about Russia have 10,000 tanks, probably a bit less now thanks to Ukraine, but how many of them are operational? How many have been used for parts? Fielding all those tanks cost money as well. Then you have all the support units that go along with the tanks. It all has to be operational, and the Russians have to be able to afford it.

Yes, the Russians lost 30.000 men because daddy "funnyman" Zelensky told you and I don't know how much Russian equipment is still functioning but Ukraine is getting mauled right now with huge amounts of artillery.

The Russian military has always been very corrupt but so is the Ukre military, plus, the logistic situation is a lot better in the Russian side (they're not supplying a half-encircled bulge and are much closer to Russia, you know)

 

[Aidan]

The point, is that Politically speaking, Ukraine has no incentive to give up the fight, because defeat in this scenario means absolute defeat. Just like the war between the American Colonies and the British. Britain, like Russia is under no such existential restraint, which means political pressure can definitely build up on the homefront to question why so many resources are being expended on a fools errand.

Further, just as with the American War with the British, and Ukraines present war with Russia now, there is a homefield advantage as Ukraine and America were both being invaded. In both scenarios the overall goal is not defending any one place to the last, its preserving the existence of the military and the government. Part of why the American Independence war dragged on for so long was the British could not pin the Americans down into one decisive battle that they could win. They came close on several occasions, but in the end Washington always managed to get away. Ukraine is under a similar scenario here. I expect we will start to see a retreat from Sieverodonetsk in the coming days/weeks. If Russia is unable to pin the Ukrainian Army to the wall, then and there, they will have issues. Much like the British when they took Philadelphia and New York City.

Namely, Ukraine is fucking huge, and the bulk of its military power comes from further into the interior. The fighting right now is centered in a part of Ukraine Russia has been preparing to invade for almost a decade now. They have the built up rail and ammunition infrastructure to support it. The population is also slightly more permissive. This becomes less and less relevant the further west the Russians go.

My point was that Ukraine doesn't have to win any decisive battles. They just don't have to lose any decisively and instead bleed Russia until their economy starts to crack. Just like the Americans did to the British. This war is astronomically expensive, and Russia I don't think can spend the next 4 years fighting it. Maybe 1 year at the most optimistic. But as I pointed out at the beginning the longer it goes on the harder its going to get.

Just because a US Army officer trains someone doesn't mean he referenced or trained them on principles from the American Independence war Revolutionary War.

To expand upon me saying it doesn't seem like our training really stuck, one thing that sets the US military apart is its unusually strong reliance on enlisted leadership. Russia doesn't do it and Ukraine doesn't appear to be doing it even though we've been working with them for years. I guess it isn't palatable to foreign officers to tell them to let their enlisted plebs take initiative on the orders of the day. If Ukraine did take it to heart I haven't seen it in practice; all the bitching we're starting to read about in the news (+ videos) was from enlisted saying they're being told to do the impossible without proper support and then sent off to die.

>Namely, Ukraine is fucking huge, and the bulk of its military power comes from further into the interior. The fighting right now is centered in a part of Ukraine Russia has been preparing to invade for almost a decade now.
Source this. It doesn't even make sense.
The bulk of Ukraine's forces have been in the East for a long time. They don't have some massive reserves on stand by that Russia is going to crash into, which is one of the big problems they have and presumably why they decided to effectively draft every able-bodied male in the country early on. Azov exists with official support for a reason and it isn't because the AFU are an experienced institution with tons of able bodies at their disposal.

>My point was that Ukraine doesn't have to win any decisive battles.
They do if they want to keep the Donbas and reclaim other areas.

You can make all sorts of similarities to any war you want but this isn't a greater power crossing an ocean to avoid losing a cash cow.
Done sperging about it but it's just really dumb and characteristically oldschool-American to try argue this.

Notable.

Today's Russia isn't my namesake's Soviet Union. Thirty years of relative freedom is encouraging more and more people to speak out against the Russian war in Ukraine. Expect to see more such utterances as the grind goes on. Suggest many, many Russians are asking themselves how many Russian sons, brothers, fathers, and uncles have to die to feed one man's ego.

The Ukrainians know why they are fighting. More and more Russians have no idea why Russia is fighting; they see no benefit to the Rodina, just hardship. When the Soviet Union ended, said to myself, "Russia has found its' soul again." Like to think Russia is finding their soul yet again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/2-russian-lawmakers-branded-traitors-and-ordered-out-of-meeting-for-demanding-putin-end-invasion-of-ukraine/ar-AAXPimX?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL

https://archive.ph/ZAucg

>msn
What does the average Russian gain if Russia backs out of this today?

 

[White_N]

It's a Ukrainian DShKM machine gun

In service	1938–present

When the Soviet Union ended, said to myself, "Russia has found its' soul again." Like to think Russia is finding their soul yet again.

So Western partners refused to even consider the possibility of Russian free will, now it is said that only recently they received a soul.

It's really too much

 

[Hell on Earth]

Notable.

Today's Russia isn't my namesake's Soviet Union. Thirty years of relative freedom is encouraging more and more people to speak out against the Russian war in Ukraine. Expect to see more such utterances as the grind goes on. Suggest many, many Russians are asking themselves how many Russian sons, brothers, fathers, and uncles have to die to feed one man's ego.

The Ukrainians know why they are fighting. More and more Russians have no idea why Russia is fighting; they see no benefit to the Rodina, just hardship. When the Soviet Union ended, said to myself, "Russia has found its' soul again." Like to think Russia is finding their soul yet again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/2-russian-lawmakers-branded-traitors-and-ordered-out-of-meeting-for-demanding-putin-end-invasion-of-ukraine/ar-AAXPimX?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL

https://archive.ph/ZAucg

lol, can you tell me how many times Russians have died due to one's man ego?

 

[JosephStalin]

lol, can you tell me how many times Russians have died due to one's man ego?

Too many. Lots of Russians died to my namesake's ego. Lots of Ukrainians. Lots of Soviet people, period.

 

[Su-27 Flanker-B]

Many old weapons still have their place on the battlefield - russias main towed artillery gun is well over 50 years old, with some of the other howitzers having been created in 1943. DshKM is old, maxim is old, M2 is old. Weapon doesnt need to be modern to be effective.

 

[White_N]

It is reported about missile launches on Ukrainian territory. According to sources, Iskander missile defense systems hit targets in the city of Merefa near Kharkiv.

Presumably, the target of the strike was a local railway junction.

 

[GoPro]

@GoPro

this part i wouldn't be so sure about
the issues that china and russia face are severe, no doubt about it. but they are, in principle, fixable.
the wests issues on the other hand, while less severe in the present, are essentially impossible to fix under its current political system.

a better analogy therefor would be russia as a man with a few broken ribs, china as a man with a dislocated shoulder and broken wristbones, and the west as a man with early stage brain cancer. the first two can recover, but the third is utterly doomed.

Fixing demographic issues has never been done to my knowledge and letting demographic crisis pass will take generations.
China used to downplay that problem, until it was finally forced to scrap one child policy in favor of two child policy in 2015. That was then replaced by three child policy in 2021. Russia was debating commie era childlessness tax and offering incentives, but noting was done yet to my knowledge.
China's and Russia's rapidly growing elderly populations will become drains on resources. Both countries won't have enough young people to pay taxes needed to fund healthcare and retirement funds. Deficit of working taxpayers will lead to a lack funding in other areas and fewer workers to bolster economies. People will flee abroad due to bad economy, that will further shrink the pool of taxpayers, and cause a brain drain. That leads to a self-perpetuating downward spiral. China and Russia have to do something quick, and it will take decades to see if their fixes even worked.
Demographics alone is one existential iceberg China and Russia are heading towards but Americans do not have to deal with.

What makes you think that the U.S. won't fix its issues by implementing necessary reforms like they did in past?
America was in a similar situation back in 1860s and 1910-1930s. Despite predictions of American collapse back then, USA came back stronger than before each time. China and Russia head towards internal unrest too, and they both ended up with communism last time.

 

[Regenbogen]

The Taliban banned marriage under age 15. Without getting into an autistic slapfight about definitions, social censure of sex with prepubescent children is far closer to a universal human behavior than drawing a bright line between "child" and "adult" at age 18.

The USA officially accepted literally purchasing a nine-year-old slave boy and chaining him to your bed. As a cultural practice, there's a huge gulf between that and marrying off girls a few years after puberty.

damn, TIL