Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[Driedsoap]

Brain death is never a temporary condition it is a medical diagnosis. But the brain may be dead and the brain stem is still alive which allows for respiration, heart beat, etc. Primitive reflexes also return mimicing life.

The very few people who woke up from long comas were not in a good state either:

Yeah. It is very unpredictable in terms of who could regain some marginal function and who can't. That's why people want to keep them plugged in because the alternative is permanent forever death versus stasis.

 

[MysticMisty]

Because this is a thread for mocking dying kids

Actually we have a lot of compassion for these dead and dying kids (and living very young kids forced to pose with corpses), it's the parents we mock for their own lack of compassion. Or for hauling potatoes around and pretending they have enough brain function for personalities and shit.

 

[Onewhohides]

Yeah. It is very unpredictable in terms of who could regain some marginal function and who can't. That's why people want to keep them plugged in because the alternative is permanent forever death versus stasis.

...You do not understand what brain death is do you? The reason kids like Archie are still alive is he is on a vent. That is a machine that forces his lungs to inflate and deflate. Now, while he is on such a machine it sends oxygenated blood to the brain stem. Said brain stem keeps the heart beating but only just. This is the way Organ donors normally have to die. Brain death is death. The brain cannot recover from complete death. You remove the vent and his body will die. Today, tomorrow, or next year. And even on the vent, his body will eventually die. Check out the Jahi thread to see what happens to the dead body while the vent barely keeps them alive. Also for God's sake LURK more. Read the OPs I've seen you in two threads I follow so far... Learn how the farms work.

 

[Driedsoap]

...You do not understand what brain death is do you? The reason kids like Archie are still alive is he is on a vent. That is a machine that forces his lungs to inflate and deflate. Now, while he is on such a machine it sends oxygenated blood to the brain stem. Said brain stem keeps the heart beating but only just. This is the way Organ donors normally have to die. Brain death is death. The brain cannot recover from complete death. You remove the vent and his body will die. Today, tomorrow, or next year. And even on the vent, his body will eventually die. Check out the Jahi thread to see what happens to the dead body while the vent barely keeps them alive. Also for God's sake LURK more. Read the OPs I've seen you in two threads I follow so far... Learn how the farms work.

Don't try and PL me over a couple dead kid threads. You're glossing over my initial comment which was the UK gov shouldn't have enforcement to take kids off life support. Disagree fine but you're incorrect over what point an individual can recover. There will be damage but people have been assessed as "zero activity brain dead" and gained some function back. It's rare but that is why parents don't immediately agree to turning the machines off.

 

[Shitted Scaredless]

It is the duty of healthcare to preserve life. Cost and arbitrary timelines of care only make sense when unnecessary medical procedures are not covered. But they are. So why restrict care when someone is on life support? Being brain dead is only a portion of actual death and it has been a temporary phase in some cases. The costs can be cut elsewhere such as elective procedures or have the next of kin pay towards the keep.

Because this is a thread for mocking dying kids and not some ethics debate I will leave you to your fun.

What East Jesus Nowhere Christian community did you crawl out of?

 

[Driedsoap]

What East Jesus Nowhere Christian community did you crawl out of?

I was raised an atheist and still am.

 

[Shitted Scaredless]

I was raised an atheist and still am.

Ah. So some kind of "life must go on" mad scientist. Do you work for Umbrella?

 

[Driedsoap]

Ah. So some kind of "life must go on" mad scientist. Do you work for Umbrella?

No. I understand the necessity of ending life for many reasons but I don't believe it's appropriate for public healthcare to decide when my kid gets unplugged. I'm thinking back on when armed police guarded the hospital room of a child because it was decided he had to die in the UK and not be allowed experimental treatment abroad. That's fucked up to me.

 

[Shitted Scaredless]

No. I understand the necessity of ending life for many reasons but I don't believe it's appropriate for public healthcare to decide when my kid gets unplugged. I'm thinking back on when armed police guarded the hospital room of a child because it was decided he had to die in the UK and not be allowed experimental treatment abroad. That's fucked up to me.

Look. Most of these kids don't have anything that'll make them live without the life support in this thread. They have no brain function, no feelings, nothing. And thats what we're talking about when it comes to being unplugged. Not just, say, medically induced short term comas.

 

[Dunkleosteus]

If I remember the Alfie Evans shit properly, he had a 100% fatal mitochondria disease. The UK legal system sees children as their own persons and ruled that allowing him to Italy or whatever to be experimented on, with 0 chance it would benefit him, was cruel to him. He could not benefit from them in any capacity, would only continue declining and it was decided that taking him off all support was doing what was best for him.

I can understand the side that the parents should have 100% say but imo the UK court made the best decision for Alfie as a person and I hope if there's an afterlife, he's able to do everything he couldn't here.

EDIT: I think I got Alfie Evans confused with Charlie Gard but my general point still stands. Rip little dudes.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Look. Most of these kids don't have anything that'll make them live without the life support in this thread. They have no brain function, no feelings, nothing. And thats what we're talking about when it comes to being unplugged. Not just, say, medically induced short term comas.

Just plant a brain seed in the noggin. GGEZ

 

[Beautiful Border]

If I remember the Alfie Evans shit properly, he had a 100% fatal mitochondria disease. The UK legal system sees children as their own persons and ruled that allowing him to Italy or whatever to be experimented on, with 0 chance it would benefit him, was cruel to him. He could not benefit from them in any capacity, would only continue declining and it was decided that taking him off all support was doing what was best for him.

I can understand the side that the parents should have 100% say but imo the UK court made the best decision for Alfie as a person and I hope if there's an afterlife, he's able to do everything he couldn't here.

The worst part of that case was the way American wingnuts tried to use it as evidence that universal healthcare doesn't work. If Alfie had been born in the US he wouldn't have even got to the stage of being put on life support in the first place, his parents wouldn't have been able to afford it.

 

[A tree]

No. It's a phase of death, you need to stop the circulatory system as well.

Hi, resident parent who had to pull the plug here. Check my post history for details if you wish. I use this thread as a form of therapy. I know every time I come here that I made the right choice not to prolong the suffering. This is not a life. This is not a life I would want imposed on my worst enemy. If I'm ever laid low like this they damn well better let me go. If I had fought to keep my kid alive I would have my very own Luna and that's a fate worse than death. Sorry for the PL (again) but a little humility when all the doctors are telling you there's nothing they can do, is what these parents need to hear. Brain dead is dead. Incompatible with life is as good as dead. Thank fuck I have a background in biomedical science and couldn't be swayed by Christians and idiots.

Re:hollies scrubbed profile i expect the lawyers she was fishing for a few days ago told her to stop the conspiritard shit accusing the hospital of trying to steal your kids organs, it's not going to help your case.

 

[The Only Fruit]

It's possible for brain dead patients to regain further measurable signs of life

This is the problem, right here, this confusion. Patients don’t recover from brain death. They can wake up from comas, which are something different, and they can sometimes regain further function after being in a continuous vegetative state, which is something different again, although it is limited, rare, and less and less likely the longer the state persists.

As I understand it Archie Dance has not been declared brain dead, although the doctors believe he is. The first court case was about whether they could perform further tests to confirm that, which the mother refused.

(I’d also like to point out that it’s not ‘the UK government’ making these decisions, I agree that would be totally fucked. It’s judges assessing medical evidence and legal arguments and making rulings. The current UK government doesn’t even like judges, because they have this traitorous habit of ruling that government policies and actions are unlawful!)

 

[A tree]

This is the problem, right here, this confusion. Patients don’t recover from brain death. They can wake up from comas, which are something different, and they can sometimes regain further function after being in a continuous vegetative state, which is something different again, although it is limited, rare, and less and less likely the longer the state persists.

As I understand it Archie Dance has not been declared brain dead, although the doctors believe he is. The first court case was about whether they could perform further tests to confirm that, which the mother refused.

The test failed because he had no peripheral nerve response. It's pretty much academic becuse anyone who understands these things knows that there's no meaningful survival after an insult to the brain like that.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

& Alfie Evans. When the police get involved to ensure your kid dies that's a level of fucked up to avoid.

Say what you will about the cost benefit of keeping an extremely disabled person alive but if the same medical system is happy to shell out funds for costly and unnecessary procedures (such as trans'ing) one would think life support wouldn't come with arbitrary time limits.

Charlie Guard is a little different than the one atm and Alfie Evans because Charlie Guard's parents wanted to try experimental treatment but it was blocked by an ethics committee and courts in the UK so they tried to go to New York to have it done but were literally blocked by the government from doing so.
I consider that unethical. I'm sure there would have been a scientific benefit to see what would happen in such a rare disease and the choice should have come down to the parents. The kid was still screwed, don't get me wrong, but it's their kid and as long as it's not on the government's dime, they should have been allowed to try.
Just keeping people on life support indefinitely in futile cases should be avoided and is just as senseless as tranny rot pockets and arm dongs.
The more pertinent issue to me is why two major causes: both Alfie Evans and Charlie Guard were both mito sufferers. That shows to me that the UK is managing these diseases poorly and neglecting them til they're braindead. Depends on the disease itself though as you can prevent damage in some with timely intervention and some are progressive and degenerative no matter what.
I wouldn't consider time limits on life support arbitrary either. Medfags could explain it a lot better but the vast majority will never get better if they don't regain some level of functioning within a certain amount of time.
People also use the term "braindead" in common speech non scientifically but there are different degrees of reduced consciousness and sometimes vegetative and minimally conscious states are called "braindead" but they actually aren't. Brain death literally means zero activity in the brain. You can consider it just as dead as a heart that will no longer beat.
So if medical people say they're brain dead, you should really accept that as much as death in any other form and take it very gravely. They aren't fooling around. People think they should keep their braindead relative hooked up for years bc some people very rarely wake from a minimally conscious or vegetative state but they're confusing definitions. You can't wake up from death.

Spoiler

Unless you're a revenant, but I digress.

 

[A tree]

Charlie Guard is a little different than the one atm and Alfie Evans because Charlie Guard's parents wanted to try experimental treatment but it was blocked by an ethics committee and courts in the UK so they tried to go to New York to have it done but were literally blocked by the government from doing so.
I consider that unethical. I'm sure there would have been a scientific benefit to see what would happen in such a rare disease and the choice should have come down to the parents. The kid was still screwed, don't get me wrong, but it's their kid and as long as it's not on the government's dime, they should have been allowed to try.
Just keeping people on life support indefinitely in futile cases should be avoided and is just as senseless as tranny rot pockets and arm dongs.
The more pertinent issue to me is why two major causes: both Alfie Evans and Charlie Guard were both mito sufferers. That shows to me that the UK is managing these diseases poorly and neglecting them til they're braindead. Depends on the disease itself though as you can prevent damage in some with timely intervention and some are progressive and degenerative no matter what.
I wouldn't consider time limits on life support arbitrary either. Medfags could explain it a lot better but the vast majority will never get better if they don't regain some level of functioning within a certain amount of time.
People also use the term "braindead" in common speech non scientifically but there are different degrees of reduced consciousness and sometimes vegetative and minimally conscious states are called "braindead" but they actually aren't. Brain death literally means zero activity in the brain. You can consider it just as dead as a heart that will no longer beat.
So if medical people say they're brain dead, you should really accept that as much as death in any other form and take it very gravely. They aren't fooling around. People think they should keep their braindead relative hooked up for years bc some people very rarely wake from a minimally conscious or vegetative state but they're confusing definitions. You can't wake up from death.

Spoiler

Unless you're a revenant, but I digress.

Respectfully disagree about Charlie gard. The experimental therapy being offered was nothing more than a special milkshake. Basically a different type of enteral feed.

There was a suggestion that If the mitochondrial disease hadn't progressed the formula may have been able to slow the progress. It was already too late for Gard by the time his parents realised he was sick, and the doctor in the US who was suggesting this initially changed his line after seeing his scans and said it was futile.

It was all moot because Charlie was too fragile to be moved. The case at the end was the parents wanting to bring him home to die but it had to be explained to them that he would have to be manually bagged the whole way, in a helicopter and almost certainly die horribly in the process. No vent existed that would be able to fit into the parents flat so they would manual bag him all the way home and then keep doing it until their arms got tired and then he would die. Moving him vs allowing him to pass in hospital was not even a choice. It would have broken the hippocratic oath to attempt it.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

Respectfully disagree about Charlie gard. The experimental therapy being offered was nothing more than a special milkshake. Basically a different type of enteral feed.

There was a suggestion that If the mitochondrial disease hadn't progressed the formula may have been able to slow the progress. It was already too late for Gard by the time his parents realised he was sick, and the doctor in the US who was suggesting this initially changed his line after seeing his scans and said it was futile.

It was all moot because Charlie was too fragile to be moved. The case at the end was the parents wanting to bring him home to die but it had to be explained to them that he would have to be manually bagged the whole way, in a helicopter and almost certainly die horribly in the process. No vent existed that would be able to fit into the parents flat so they would manual bag him all the way home and then keep doing it until their arms got tired and then he would die. Moving him vs allowing him to pass in hospital was not even a choice. It would have broken the hippocratic oath to attempt it.

At the beginning, they considered doing the treatment there in the UK hospital which I believe they should have allowed and let the parents pay for it with all that fundraising money. I read the US doctor eventually said it was futile, but during the time that was being deliberated, could further damage have been delayed if he was allowed to do the treatment sooner?
Either way, I agree his death was inevitable and it sounded very severe and incompatible with life. I guess I'm really just like... let the parents have hope. The doctor offering the experimental treatment said it was a lot more likely to help his muscles than his brain but it was not a zero percent possibility it could improve his brain (though I assume it would be temporary with a degenerative and progressive condition).
I know the "experiment on a living minor" thing would be shot down by any ethics commitee by a mile a minute but that's why I feel like it shouldn't be up to them.
As for @Driedsoap soap comparing this to futile life support for the braindead, I don't think it should be bc rational ppl (not prolife retards) were more concerned about the precedent for the rights of the parents than the dumb crap about how taking him off life support would kill him and was Literally Hitler Evil Socialist Medicine Killing Babies .
I find your opinion fully respectable though.

 

[discombobulated]

Can anyone say at what stage in situations like this the patient stops being a viable option for organ donation? How late is too late?

I'd like to think, if I were the parent of this kid, that's the route I'd be looking at now, trying to help as many other kids as possible.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

Can anyone say at what stage in situations like this the patient stops being a viable option for organ donation? How late is too late?

I'd like to think, if I were the parent of this kid, that's the route I'd be looking at now, trying to help as many other kids as possible.

I followed Jahi and stuff and I think if you force a braindead person on life support for an extended period of time, they slowly break down and their organs are useless.