War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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I'm saying your allegory sucks and should feel bad, just using the other side as reference. In any case Vietnam isn't ever going to be a perfect representation of the invasion of Ukraine so such comparisons are moot, you can really say anything for either side using Vietnam and Ukraine.

For me it's the lies about how well they're doing that drive me nuts, all while asking for absurdly generous aid that is 1 step shy of boots on the ground from western powers. You're either killing over 9000 Russian tanks a day and shooting down every plane while capturing 100k Russian POWs and don't need billions in aid, new tanks, new planes, and various countries' near-god-tier intelligence, or you're fighting a formidable foe who is marching on your soil and you need everything you can get to stop them and are not ashamed to ask.
You don't get it both ways.

We're starting to see that those lies did nothing but maybe betray their own troops.
Nah the allegory is pretty solid. You're just arguing in bad faith as you're prone to do. I'm not here to argue for the exaggerated kill counts of the Ukr military. I never cited the inflated kill counts issued from the Ukrainian government and now that you mention it the Russians are just as dishonest claiming major defeats were feints or the Cruiser Moskva sank in a storm. No government in war publishes true numbers of personnel and equipment losses unless they have to. The Allies and the Axis did the same in WW2, claiming major victories and delaying the news of major defeats during their darkest hours to keep their citizenry from losing faith in the war efforts. The argument of "Why does Ukraine want more aid if they are winning?" is dumb. No matter what the situation is they're going to want and need a steady flow of material as they cannot produce it locally until the cessation of hostilities.
 
you've been saying stupid shit, i like pointing out stupid shit.
Your way of pointing out stupid shit is very explosive and often reads as you being emotionally invested in the subject matter. Nothing wrong with that, I think, only if you are honest with yourself and others.
This shit is gonna end with stacks and stacks of people dead that didn't ask for this.
They are dying already, mind. Civvies and military alike. Considering how Russia dragged their riot police in the first wave of invasion and how much raping and pillaging there was, civvies would've been fucked regardless. I remember when this shit just started in 2014 and there were a lot of those stories. People getting thrown to "the basement" for ransom, shits and giggles, people getting their possessions nicked at the gun barrel. And those were supposedly "local insurgents" (yeah, right, I remember seeing a drunken dude with a German Reichsadler on his hip on a summer day and he was asking me directions in a very uncharacteristic Central Russian accent).

For someone who supposedly served, your understanding of war seems to be weird and limited.
but the didn't do it unprovoked.
The only crime Ukraine is guilty of is existing and existing close enough to Russia. You will never understand the generational angst of being a neighbour of Russia.

Referring to people as subhuman has some real genocide vibes.
Maybe Russia indulging in genocide, and ethnic cleansing in the past had to do something with it? Maybe the hatred of everything Ukrainian by the Russian elite doesn't help. Maybe, the accidental leakage of the "Final Solution to Ukrainian Problem", where a very prominent political pundit outlines the cultural destruction of Ukrainian identity and literal enslavement of Ukraine didn't help either? Have you considered that?
 
vietnam and ukraine are the exact same - smoothed brain faggot
I never said the situation was exactly the same you illiterate retard. What a hilarious take in your last post as the russian dick riders in this and the other thread can't stop calling the Ukrainians non-human. niggers and subhuman for denying the will and glory of Vladimir Putin. Go cry for Russia on the other thread with the other retards as they defend baby rape or shooting trucks with non combatants in them.
 
I never said the situation was exactly the same you illiterate retard. What a hilarious take in your last post as the russian dick riders in this and the other thread can't stop calling the Ukrainians non-human. niggers and subhuman for denying the will and glory of Vladimir Putin. Go cry for Russia on the other thread with the other retards as they defend baby rape or shooting trucks with non combatants in them.
Point to one single case of me demeaning ukes. ONE!!!!
I was done posting here, but you telling me not too, well, I think i'll keep posting just to annoy you, you dumb cunt.
 
Point to one single case of me demeaning ukes. ONE!!!!
I was done posting here, but you telling me not too, well, I think i'll keep posting just to annoy you, you dumb cunt.
I don't recall demanding you leave or accusing you of demeaning Ukrainians (though you seem to think they should submit to the will of Russia in order to trigger the libs). Just you crying for the aggressor state as their fans excuse their crimes on civilians. Stay and look more retarded with dumb takes by all means.
 
Ignoring the rest of your post as it's not actually relevant. I never said Russkies don't lie, I've said the opposite but it's not important as it was said ages ago.
The argument of "Why does Ukraine want more aid if they are winning?" is dumb. No matter what the situation is they're going to want and need a steady flow of material as they cannot produce it locally until the cessation of hostilities.
That isn't my argument. I've also said that I understand why Zelensky asks for anything he can get, but you don't get to tell the world how much ass you're kicking while demanding billions in foreign aid and then saying "You're next if you don't give me the aid" without being a bad guy. Fuck Zelensky for that.
As an American I'm tired of being directly involved in things thousands of miles away just because our own leaders have some corrupt connections to maintain.

This is largely a European issue, not a NATO issue, so Poland can send in 40 billion in aid, donate anti-tank weapons, offer western training, etc. Germany, France, and others too. I know they've helped but my point is that this is only a US problem because our government has been chomping at the bit for this for years and wants it to be, meanwhile we have a slew of domestic issues that need addressing that are ignored so yeah I kinda want to focus inwardly for once in my life instead of on foreign wars.

Rant aside, this is ultimately just a way for the West to bleed Russia for cheap. Ukrainian lives mean nothing to the West.
 
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"you're prolonging this rape by fighting against it, just give in and let the rapist rape you or else you'll just get hurt even more, all your injuries are your fault for not just laying down and submitting!"

some supreme gaslighting skills vatnigs have, too bad most people aren't dumb enough to fall for it

Calm Down pedo your constant projections about rape are getting annoying. Go to Tumblr with your shit.
 
Well i intend to talk in this thread i dont think you can call in the favor from mods team to temp ban me again, Freedom of speech aint easy fortification to take my nigger.
You can say all the dumb small penis shit you want, it’s the humans arguing with you who I take exception to. You can’t blame a raccoon for eating garbage, but you can sure the fuck blame the person for leaving garbage where raccoons can get at it.
 
That isn't my argument. I've also said that I understand why Zelensky asks for anything he can get, but you don't get to tell the world how much ass you're kicking while demanding billions in foreign aid and then saying "You're next if you don't give me the aid" without being a bad guy. Fuck Zelensky for that.
If you don't understand why a head of state wouldn't sell their war effort as anything but a certain victory I don't know what to tell you. This is the first time you mentioned the Ukrainian head of state as as usual you shifted gears to something else that wasn't the argument.
This is largely a European issue, not a NATO issue
Things going on in NATO's border are exactly a NATO issue.
Poland can send in 40 billion in aid, donate anti-tank weapons, offer western training, etc. Germany, France, and others too.
Poland and most of our allies are helping proportionally to their defense budgets, with Estonia out matching most. If you think playing the isolationist card is going to net us some benefit I'll have to disagree.
this is only a US problem because our government has been chopping at the bit for this for years and wants it to be, meanwhile we have a slew of domestic issues that need addressing that are ignored so yeah I kinda want to focus inwardly for once in my life instead of on foreign wars.
I disagree with this point as well. This is the first war I've supported in a long time as we aren't aiding anti American muslims to fight other muslims for the first time in several decades. You can chirp about domestic issues but don't lie to yourself and think they would be addressed by this administration if there wasn't a war in Europe to focus attention and if they did it would have been another hilarious car wreck from the Biden cabinet.
Rant aside, this is ultimately just a way for the West to bleed Russia for cheap. Ukrainian lives mean nothing to the West.
Historically speaking they matter a lot more to the West than to the Russians, who see them as a subhuman people.
 
You can say all the dumb small penis shit you want, it’s the humans arguing with you who I take exception to. You can’t blame a raccoon for eating garbage, but you can sure the fuck blame the person for leaving garbage where raccoons can get at it.

Well its either engaging the racoon or just let him shit on the floor, Either way not everything in life goes your way for every 2020 there will be 2016. Deal with it.
 
I don't recall saying the South Vietnam president was a good guy.
Diem was long buried before the US became officially involved in 'Nam. The country couldn't hold itself together without him and Johnson wanted to prop them up until the next guy took charge. Ho Chi Minh couldn't alive enough to make it to the end of the war either so the aftermath was a shitshow of purges and interventions for the entire region. It's better now but it has been a strong lesson in power and imperialism, if anything, and nobody has learned shit from it. Which is really sad.

If anyone wants to know why I distrust official narratives put out by governments, it is shit like this. It becomes "history" somehow.
 
Diem was long buried before the US became officially involved in 'Nam. The country couldn't hold itself together without him and Johnson wanted to prop them up until the next guy took charge. Ho Chi Minh couldn't alive enough to make it to the end of the war either so the aftermath was a shitshow of purges and interventions for the entire region. It's better now but it has been a strong lesson in power and imperialism, if anything, and nobody has learned shit from it. Which is really sad.

If anyone wants to know why I distrust official narratives put out by governments, it is shit like this. It becomes "history" somehow.
The whole Vietnam war was a tragedy of failures of western policy. I blame the French. Thankfully the modern Vietnamese aren't another DPRK.
 
If you don't understand why a head of state wouldn't sell their war effort as anything but a certain victory I don't know what to tell you. This is the first time you mentioned the Ukrainian head of state as as usual you shifted gears to something else that wasn't the argument.
No it isn't. Nothing I've said in this post is new and it's very relevant to my overall reply.
Things going on in NATO's border are exactly a NATO issue.
Oh ok so NATO includes NATO members and their border states, got it.
Poland and most of our allies are helping proportionally to their defense budgets, with Estonia out matching most. If you think playing the isolationist card is going to net us some benefit I'll have to disagree.
Most of our allies don't even meet the NATO 2% defense spending target lol. Suddenly they're doing their part? I applaud Estonia and Lithuania the most for their part because they truly are smol and doing their part. Everyone else can band together to pick up US slack for all I care, especially rich countries who still rely on the US for defense.
I disagree with this point as well. This is the first war I've supported in a long time as we aren't aiding anti American muslims to fight other muslims for the first time in several decades. You can chirp about domestic issues but don't lie to yourself and think they would be addressed by this administration if there wasn't a war in Europe to focus attention and if they did it would have been another hilarious car wreck from the Biden cabinet.
It's a cop out to say the administration sucks so we may as well get involved in another conflict but we're never going to agree on any of this so I'm not going to push it.
Historically speaking they matter a lot more to the West than to the Russians, who see them as a subhuman people.
Nope. The average Westerner doesn't give a damn about dying Ukrainians. As soon as the media machine stops talking about it then Ukraine may as well not exist in America and I'm sure will resume existing as it did in Euros' minds prior to the invasion aside from refugees who people will grow dispassionate towards with time. We're already seeing it with #PrideMonth taking over social media and the news cycle.

Anecdotally, talking with normal people who never kept up with the invasion, they already don't care.

Usual last post for now as these are typical e-arguments that don't really go anywhere.
 
You're either killing over 9000 Russian tanks a day and shooting down every plane while capturing 100k Russian POWs and don't need billions in aid, new tanks, new planes, and various countries' near-god-tier intelligence, or you're fighting a formidable foe who is marching on your soil and you need everything you can get to stop them and are not ashamed to ask.
1) who the fuck says that
2) who the fuck believes it if they said it

The cards were dealt 100 days ago. You are cherry-picking the worst/best case scenarios simultaneously to create this scenario. Everyone else is far more pragmatic about it. Especially the ones dealing out "aid". Shout out to Poland for being bros on this particular point.

Here's how it actually is:
1) (nation) provides X weapons
2) Ukraine provides this many dead Russians and destroyed equipment

It is all about making the math equation balance. Is it worthwhile for NATO nations to throw arms at the conflict or not? Whatever survives is pointed at them.

Simple as.
 
was a tragedy of failures of western policy.
Uh. Did you miss the part where the ChiComs got their shit pushed in with a shooting war with the Vietnamese shortly after? It was a shitshow at least as far as Vietnamese foreign policy was concerned longterm. Their benefactor, the USSR, ate shit a decade or so later. They took every wrong offramp possible but somehow managed to be better off than most.

The people that righted that ship during the "peace" are more deserving than the war leaders, imo.
 
1) who the fuck says that
2) who the fuck believes it if they said it
Retard it was blatant hyperbole. I thought "over 9000" was hint enough, good grief.
The cards were dealt 100 days ago. You are cherry-picking the worst/best case scenarios simultaneously to create this scenario. Everyone else is far more pragmatic about it. Especially the ones dealing out "aid". Shout out to Poland for being bros on this particular point.

Here's how it actually is:
1) (nation) provides X weapons
2) Ukraine provides this many dead Russians and destroyed equipment

It is all about making the math equation balance. Is it worthwhile for NATO nations to throw arms at the conflict or not? Whatever survives is pointed at them.

Simple as.
Here's how it's working: The US and others fuel one side of the war machine to further cripple the war machine they've hated for decades. Ukrainian deaths along the way are a risk Biden et al. are willing to take. See: effectively expired AT weapons graciously gifted by Germany.
 
Retard it was blatant hyperbole. I thought "over 9000" was hint enough, good grief.
"only pretending to be retarded"
We all know what you meant. You exaggerated the opposing side to make yours sound somewhat reasonable.
Here's how it's working: The US and others fuel one side of the war machine to further cripple the war machine they've hated for decades. Ukrainian deaths along the way are a risk Biden et al. are willing to take. See: effectively expired AT weapons graciously gifted by Germany.
Oh no. The stockpile that was going to go bad and be totally obsolete has found a purpose killing the enemy it was built to kill.

What a strong argument you have. M109A3GNs were drug out of storage and brought into this conflict. 1960's American SPGs sold to Germany then to Norway then kept in a shed for 30 years. They have a role here. The question should be how these SPGs are adopted so readily, in weeks, rather than "OMG so old". It's ammo is NATO standardized. How long do they want the 155mm pain to last? Surplus stored Norwegian M109s are the pimple on the ass of nothing in the collective arsenal. They could send them all. What should worry vatniks is what they send after that. The logistics chain will be fully established then. Fun times.

Also, pretty fuckin' sure that Ukrainians signing up for the army signed up to kill Russians. It's kinda been a notable thing since 2014 when the Russians invaded and started breaking off parts of the country. They absolutely know what they signed up for. They want this. It isn't a brother war. Fuck off shill.
 
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