General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Foolish Samurai Warrior]

Hold on, Nijisanji mech controversy? I wasn't here for that, what happened?

 

[Scuttle]

Luxiem getting 3D is going to fuck with that "line" and it means that Anycolor gives no shits about the 3 other EN gens who got 100k first.

Not even just the EN gens. It would fuck with about 20 JPs who are also ahead of them. It would go well above and beyond EN seething. That list has some of the SEEDs in there. Luxiem outfits are a more likely avenue of drama.

That said, I don't think it'll be 3D. Debuts take preparation and you need to fill that hour with rehearsed shit to do. All of Luxiem barring Shu have been flitting off to Paris to hang out and only 2 of them can sing without much prep. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that they've been diligently working on a 3D routine in the background.

Well a lot of them are graduating now no?

Not really. Even the two that recently did were signed on to record labels, already had their 3D, and were mainstays in the company. One of them graduated due to long-standing poor health.

Considering he watched VTubers since before any EN branches, I wonder how many people are just like him

Oh yeah? Well MY friend said that he doesn't watch Holo anymore because he felt their content got too samey and stale and wanted to look for something else. Like, they only play the really popular games and like to play it safe too much. Considering he is also a V-Tuber watcher, I wonder how many people are just like him.

Of course, 'my friend said' anecdotes can be tossed in the trash because it's literally the most pointless addition to a discussion the Farms can muster. Shock horror: people pick and choose what isn't for them. More at 11.

Have a graph instead. As NijiEN accelerated, as did interest in the branch.

I'll also cough this back up for you:

I look at the NijiEN graphs because I am a faggot. I will not compare them to other graphs because I could do without getting ass blasted.

Typically, what you'd expect to see is a huge rush-in of attention at the start, and then a constant decline into flatline with maybe the odd bump every now and then if they release a banger song or secure some big collabs.

But look at these:

Spoiler: LazuLight

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Spoiler: Obsydia

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Spoiler: Ethyria

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Not only growth, but unanimous, coordinated momentum across the board, to the point where members have recorded their best month three or even four times this year.

So while I can't determine if the audience is growing or if they're coming from existing fans who want a change of pace, I can say that there is at least a willingness to try new things and support other businesses, and that ebb and flow is quite healthy.

People have probably jumped from NijiEN to HoloEN, and they've almost definitely jumped from HoloEN to NijiEN. Nothing out of the ordinary. Most people aren't drones.

 

[EenGevolg]

New cover by Enna in a couple days
It's another neverending climax that doesn't reach climax song

After hearing the original, you're not wrong to be honest. I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like a verse that never reaches its chorus. This one sounded decent for a short, so it's not like he can't do it.

But, how I personally view it though is that Nijisanji livers aren't ALL meant to be enjoyed equally and instead are meant to target their own niche.
Like, if you're going into Nijisanji expecting to be able to enjoy each member/gen that comes in, then you're already doing it wrong and just setting yourself up for either disappointment or being overwhelmed.

That probably is a good way to put it. There's a bunch of smaller pockets that you can focus on, and if you're interested in anyone outside it (ex. you see a collab), you can watch them too. While I can understand why the A C C E L E R A T E would feel intimidating, I can't really understand size being a point of contention. Hololive is definitely more compact, but don't people do the same with Holo? Or do they just watch all 68 members too?

 

[Tyrvalla]

Hold on, Nijisanji mech controversy? I wasn't here for that, what happened?

Nijisanji announces merch that looks like it plagiarize other existing products

Here's the post:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/virtual-youtubers.69525/post-11445341

 

[I am not here]

what even is this thumbnail new Watame did nothing wrong. She's trying to do can do puns and Flare is having none of it

 

[Che merda di posto]

After hearing the original, you're not wrong to be honest. I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like a verse that never reaches its chorus. This one sounded decent for a short, so it's not like he can't do it.

He also wrote End of a Life for Calli, there's no question that he can do it, it's just how is it with artists, they love some tropes and sometimes they repeat themselves.

 

[White Stone]

But, how I personally view it though is that Nijisanji livers aren't ALL meant to be enjoyed equally and instead are meant to target their own niche.
Like, if you're going into Nijisanji expecting to be able to enjoy each member/gen that comes in, then you're already doing it wrong and just setting yourself up for either disappointment or being overwhelmed.

While I can see this be applicable to the Japan branch, is it really applicable to NijiEN though?

From what I can see, livers of NijiEN collab and simp for each other all the time. You can have a schedule where every stream is either a collab, or a solo turned into collab part way because they love joining into each other's vc. You will be unintentionally exposed to others even if you only intend to stick with the ones you like.

 

[Rezza]

Nijisanji announces merch that looks like it plagiarize other existing products

Here's the post:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/virtual-youtubers.69525/post-11445341

There's also the one where Luxiem got half-annive merchs while the girls got nothing like that. But yeah, the plagiarism merch was a bigger issue since it got cancelled in the end

 

[A Lurking Dumbass]

I can still see a new costume reveal being a point of contention for people because both Obsydia and Ethyria haven't gotten theirs yet and the two have already surpassed half a year.
A song might be a possibility too but I think it's kind of dumb to make another original song for a gen where 2/5 members can actually sing and the other gens have a better singer:non-singer ratio (especially Ethyria) and have had no originals yet aside from their debut songs. But then again, Luxiem's the money pig and I wouldn't put that past Anykara.


I know a couple people who have experienced the same and either moved to primarily watching Holo or indies.
But, how I personally view it though is that Nijisanji livers aren't ALL meant to be enjoyed equally and instead are meant to target their own niche.
Like, if you're going into Nijisanji expecting to be able to enjoy each member/gen that comes in, then you're already doing it wrong and just setting yourself up for either disappointment or being overwhelmed.

The problem with this critique in Nijisanji is just nijifags get elitist and say "REAL NIJISANJI FANS ONLY WATCH SPECIFIC MEMBERS OR GENS AND STICK TO THEM! THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW EVERYONE ELSE!" as if it immediately invalidates the feelings of those that actually want to get into Nijisanji as a whole. You can even see people complaining everywhere on Twitter about this aspect when Nijisanji launched the audition call for Niji EN wave 6 literally 2 weeks after Noctyx debuted. In this regard, there's a reason why most would-be Nijisanji fans just turned to supporting indies and small corpos.

The thing about nijifags and holofags is that when you point out a flaw in either agency's system, they immediately get defensive and attack anyone trying to criticize the church of their anime gods and goddesses, valid or not. It's fucking sickening. A couple months ago, I would have said Holofags were the worse of the two, but now with Nijisanji getting more traction, they're getting much more unbearable. Couple that with chink fujos getting in the equation, then it's even worse.

Hold on, Nijisanji mech controversy? I wasn't here for that, what happened?

They were accused of favouritism because their merch for a 6 month anniversary had more variety and was more thought-out than Lazulight's 1 Year Anniversary. They also plagiarised the artworks used there.

Not even just the EN gens. It would fuck with about 20 JPs who are also ahead of them. It would go well above and beyond EN seething. That list has some of the SEEDs in there. Luxiem outfits are a more likely avenue of drama.

It's really clear that Nijisanji's favourite branch right now is Luxiem and is trying to squeeze out those chink fujo bucks as much as they can. I just wish they'd pause for a fucking minute. In the 7 months that Luxiem was active, Niji has done more for them than literally all of NijiID and NijiKR, and even the NijiEN girls to a certain extent. Not a hardcore Luxiem fan, but as a fan of Lazulight, Ethyria, and NijiID, it makes me seethe.

 

[Foolish Samurai Warrior]

There's also the one where Luxiem got half-annive merchs while the girls got nothing like that. But yeah, the plagiarism merch was a bigger issue since it got cancelled in the end

WOW, now that's hurtful.

 

[Rezza]

WOW, now that's hurtful.

I personally don't blame them that much, got to make the financial report very good for that sweet sweet IPO money

 

[Scuttle]

Hololive is definitely more compact, but don't people do the same with Holo? Or do they just watch all 68 members too?

Of course they do, and Holo fans in this very thread have described HoloEN as 'In need of EN3 to spice things up'.

I guess having a whole year to 'get to know' Council didn't really pan out for some? Did they get to know them and determined that more shiny toys were needed immediately? Did people just stick with their established favourites and determine that they couldn't stretch themselves further to support anyone else? If so, it's really no different. The double-think is confusing.

The problem with this critique in Nijisanji is just nijifags get elitist and say "REAL NIJISANJI FANS ONLY WATCH SPECIFIC MEMBERS OR GENS AND STICK TO THEM! THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW EVERYONE ELSE!"

It isn't Elitist to explain the company mission statement, and nobody words it like this.

as if it immediately invalidates the feelings of those that actually want to get into Nijisanji as a whole.

That's literally their problem. You cannot tell me that someone saying 'I want to experience the company in a way that isn't intended, and because I can't that's their fault' is at all a fair position to take.

You can even see people complaining everywhere on Twitter about this aspect when Nijisanji launched the audition call for Niji EN wave 6 literally 2 weeks after Noctyx debuted. In this regard, there's a reason why most would-be Nijisanji fans just turned to supporting indies and small corpos.

Is this like the other day where you said that Japanese fans on twitter were bashing EN management for Yugo, and when I checked it was literally two tweets? There's nothing at all to support your idea that a disproportionate amount of people are turning away from Nijisanji in favour of other V-Tubers.

The thing about nijifags and holofags is that when you point out a flaw in either agency's system, they immediately get defensive and attack anyone trying to criticize the church of their anime gods and goddesses, valid or not. It's fucking sickening.

Sure, but criticism isn't exempt from scrutiny. There are valid things to criticise and then there is your post.

They also plagiarised the artworks used there.

This was debunked.

 

[A Lurking Dumbass]

It isn't Elitist to explain the company mission statement, and nobody words it like this.

It's funny to me that you've shat on Holofags, but haven't met a single Nijifag. Tons of people word it like this. That being said, the words of a couple dumbasses don't represent the whole, but you acting like they don't exist and that they're not a factor why people aren't getting into them is also just plain wrong.

That's literally their problem. You cannot tell me that someone saying 'I want to experience the company in a way that isn't intended, and because I can't that's their fault' is at all a fair position to take.

I never even mentioned anything like that. I said the people literally turning people away and are being defensive of Nijisanji are being assholes. I wasn't flaming the company in this regard. I flamed Nijifags.

Is this like the other day where you said that Japanese fans on twitter were bashing EN management for Yugo, and when I checked it was literally two tweets? There's nothing at all to support your idea that a disproportionate amount of people are turning away from Nijisanji in favour of other V-Tubers.

https://twitter.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1499610591953969153
Filter out the "I WANT TO MEET THE LUXIEM BOYS SO MUUCH", and you'll see. I also did not at all imply that a shit ton of people are actively avoiding Nijisanji for this reason. My wording doesn't even say as much, I said the reason why most people that actually DOES this had the aforementioned reason for why they're not sticking around. Aside from this, I can literally bring up multiple facebook posts, tweets, and 4chan threads complaining of the same reason (but I'm not gonna spare 30 minutes looking them up, I already spent too much time seething. Anyone can find them easily.) You literally cannot tell me they don't exist.

Sure, but criticism isn't exempt from scrutiny. There are valid things to criticise and then there is your post.

So I can't criticize tribalistic nijifags and the fact that Nijisanji has a big favouritism problem now. Got it.

 

[Ruka]

Hololive is definitely more compact, but don't people do the same with Holo? Or do they just watch all 68 members too?

I think it's less on who you watch regularly and more on who you can at least know a bit about outside of "they exist".
Hololive is definitely easier to get into without being overwhelmed/to be able to support a good handful of talents as they come out because each gen is spaced in a way that you have time to get a feel for the members before another gen comes by.
Meanwhile, Nijisanji rapid-fires members so fast that by the point you had just started to get into to "Gen A" through streams or clips or whatever, "Gen B" had already been announced and set to debut.

But, I also think it is a bit unfair because yeah, if you look at it the other way, I doubt anyone actually gives each member of Hololive the same amount of attention either.

The problem with this critique in Nijisanji is just nijifags get elitist and say "REAL NIJISANJI FANS ONLY WATCH SPECIFIC MEMBERS OR GENS AND STICK TO THEM! THEY DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW EVERYONE ELSE!" as if it immediately invalidates the feelings of those that actually want to get into Nijisanji as a whole. You can even see people complaining everywhere on Twitter about this aspect when Nijisanji launched the audition call for Niji EN wave 6 literally 2 weeks after Noctyx debuted. In this regard, there's a reason why most would-be Nijisanji fans just turned to supporting indies and small corpos.

None of what I said states "if you prefer it the other way, you shouldn't watch at all".
You can TRY, and if you can, then good for you but they aren't originally intended to be and newcomers shouldn't be forced to enjoy each gen if they feel they can't because that's what leads to people either getting overwhelmed or disappointed by new gens that aren't as eye-catching to them. If you go into Nijisanji for the first time with the expectation that every member is a fit for you and they aren't, then you can't blame people for being possibly disappointed if they don't because the agency isn't designed that way.

 

[You're an idiot]

Why is veibae hated?

I don't think anyone hates her. No one cares enough about her for something strong like hatred. It would be more appropriate to describe it as a general disliking of her content and personality. Obviously there's the 'peepeepoopoo big vagina lmao' stuff that most people tend to reference when talking about Vshojo, and it is seemingly more prevalent with her than most other members. However, I think it's more or less her personality that gets under people's skin. She just gives off the vibes of a nasty, spiteful, mean girl-esque individual, and that was mostly proven when she had her big oopsie with Shylily.

But even the people you dislike can be funny sometimes. Just watch the first 16 seconds, and don't bother with the rest.

 

[Rhialtokourai]

She liked it enough to do two streams of it in the same day. I should probably catch up on the VOD. Doubt she gets as emotional as Zeta did though. Also:

They're literal roommates last I heard, Lui the responsible/dominant one and Chloe the brat getting corrected. Lui's become an ironic harem protagonist, the cool opposite of Haachama's desperate autismo act, and she doesn't seem to count Chloe as part of her collection.

She's a great character, I think, but it's good to keep in mind that she's not as old as you'd first guess. If you're looking for a true hag experience, and not just an adult voice, she can't do it yet. She's a future wise old lady.

I love that I've become a hag collector in this thread lol

And cool, didn't know they were roommates. I'll have to give her a chance. I liked her at the start because she was at least somewhat bi-lingual. Her opening theme for her streams is amazing as well from my memory.

They aren't roommates. They did discuss it and turn it into a bit (see animation), but after that they both said, more seriously, that it might or might not happen. The last I heard in April or so was Lui saying in an English zatsudan that they'd live separately. I don't know if either of them have even moved. It's just as well. Not all friends can be roommates.

I agree with trailcamwhore on the other points, and that Lui's grind to learn English is part of her appeal.

A taste of how the Cuphead collab went

One would expect Kobo to be the more toxic malder of the two, but no.

 

[A Lurking Dumbass]

None of what I said states "if you prefer it the other way, you shouldn't watch at all".
You can TRY, and if you can, then good for you but they aren't originally intended to be and newcomers shouldn't be forced to enjoy each gen if they feel they can't because that's what leads to people either getting overwhelmed or disappointed by new gens that aren't as eye-catching to them. If you go into Nijisanji for the first time with the expectation that every member is a fit for you and they aren't, then you can't blame people for being possibly disappointed if they don't because the agency isn't designed that way.

Wasn't really referring to you in that post. You've said in a much calmer and reasonable manner. Only that Nijifags everywhere else tends to go the route I described they would. Again, i wasn't blaming the company for this because I do share your opinions that it's not a flaw of Nijisanji, nor their fault that people come into them expecting that experience. It's the general response of tribalistic nijifags that go about pointing this out like an asshole and in such a condescending manner that irks me. The main point of that segment was both Holofags and Nijifags don't take criticism against their respective agencies well even if they make sense, and lash out, most probably because they immediately accuse each other of being a member of the other tribe, and are being assholes for the sake of being one.

 

[RiverBear]

Pomu Rainpuff dox apparently

https://ja.twitcasting.tv/akibakoala/movie/276028219

Spoiler: original pic has tits out. Just censoring out of precaution

I have just been informed it may be a pic of Pomu while underaged. Deleting this because no one needs to see this

 

[NuPerezzorcjunmunospolkos]

He also wrote End of a Life for Calli, there's no question that he can do it, it's just how is it with artists, they love some tropes and sometimes they repeat themselves.

Is this bait, cause Calli wrote End of a Life herself. She gets help with songs here and there, mosy the composition and mix, but lyrics wise she largely writes her own songs.

 

[Scuttle]

I'm not going to humour this as a major argument. The last two pages have been random potshots at Niji but me correcting it is somehow MATI. After Null shows up twice in as many days I want to limit my responses here to only stuff that furthers discussion, however it's really bothersome that shitting on Niji/other companies is always whitelisted without friction, while questioning that is perceived as tribalism.

Spoiler: Replies

It's funny to me that you've shat on Holofags, but haven't met a single Nijifag. Tons of people word it like this. That being said, the words of a couple dumbasses don't represent the whole, but you acting like they don't exist and that they're not a factor why people aren't getting into them is also just plain wrong.

I don't deny that these people exist. You talk about it as if it's endemic but it's really not. It's not elitist to tell people that you aren't supposed to keep up to date with every single Niji member. Nothing else to it.

I never even mentioned anything like that. I said the people literally turning people away and are being defensive because of Nijisanji are being assholes. I wasn't flaming the company in this regard. I flamed Nijifags.

No, you said that saying it doesn't invalidate the feelings of people who want to get into Nijisanji 'as a whole' (I presume by watching all 150+ of them). I said that their feelings are nobody's problem but their own because that's not how the company wants you to consume the product.

https://twitter.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1499610591953969153
Filter out the "I WANT TO MEET THE LUXIEM BOYS SO MUUCH", and you'll see. I also did not at all imply that a shit ton of people are actively avoiding Nijisanji for this reason.

In this regard, there's a reason why most would-be Nijisanji fans just turned to supporting indies and small corpos.

This is a statement of fact. You stated that would-be Nijisanji fans are definitely going elsewhere, and that they're in the majority.

So I can't criticize tribalistic nijifags and the fact that Nijisanji has a big favouritism problem now. Got it.

You're not really saying anything, is the thing. People feeling obligated to correct perception on how Nijisanji is intended to be approached isn't tribalistic or elitist. People coming to the conclusion that they prefer Hololive, Indies, or other startups isn't indicative of a failing within Nijisanji.

The only thing I agree with is the Luxiem ass-licking but that was tethered on to the very end and is a totally separate discussion that's already been had.

Meanwhile, Nijisanji rapid-fires members so fast that by the point you had just started to get into to "Gen A" through streams or clips or whatever, "Gen B" had already been announced and set to debut.

On the surface, too, this is a perfectly reasonable trend of causation. 'I cannot catch up, and therefore I will not bother'. There are people like this and that's perfectly fine.

But it largely doesn't pan out that way in practice. Ethyria was released as the run of the litter: they stretched the existing fanbase thin, and came at a point where people were waiting for the men. Enna's first stream series of 'Lucius'(?) Struggled to break even 800 live viewers, and now she is the highest-watched and fastest-growing woman in the company behind Salome. Nina is the most-subscribed woman in NijiEN. Millie's covers are breaking 1m viewers. All of NijiEN are having their best months ever recently.

People want to feign concern about Niji's operations filtering too many people but all of the NijiEN girls are averaging 1K subs/day MINIMUM and have been doing so for months — even Nina who has been hamming it up in Paris before dying to COVID these last 6 weeks. The reality is that if people want to give a V-Tuber a chance, they'll give a V-Tuber that chance.