General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[White Stone]

How is immigration situation in Japan right now?

I have always been wondering about this fact .Those who keep shitting on Cover for not getting their talents to Japan, do they have a firm understanding on Japan's entry process? Do they know how easy/hard exactly for someone to get in? I have zero idea about this so I usually hold myself from shitting from them, but I guess I could share a few of my thoughts (more like questions actually) on the matter.

Aren't the girls considered as contractors? Would they even be allowed Work Visas?

Are "vtubers/internet streamers" even considered as proper occupations by the Japanese government? With how backwards they are I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.

Even if everything checks out, how long would it take? Didn't Kiara also mention that she was confident they would be able to visit Japan by the end of this year. It could just be unfortunate timing for her part since they are not able to get it done on time before her birthday.

Calli seems to be able to leave and renter Japan as many times as she likes. I know she already stopped her "scythe-swinging" lesson long ago. So they somehow able to procure a Work Visa for her? She is still a US citizen right?

 

[EliteDoragon]

No, but they are their employers and have been happy to take the money they earn from ID and EN branches and provide the fraction of the support they give to JP. They have the good fortune of having an unquestioning customer base who think this is fine as long as A-Chan tweets an enthusiastic message out in English once and a while or the girls come out and say a kind word about the company which is sounding more and more hollow. There was no real chance of getting Visa's month ago, but we're into late June/July and the borders have started to open up. They aren't some small business anymore. They wanted to grow past Japan but clearly haven't put a lot of actual thought into what that requires. They can't even provide the overseas talents with what they need on time.

Pretty sure they are literally not their employers and thats why the visa issue is so complicated. They are very likely just contractors.

Thats why this entire talk is always pointless.

 

[RainwaterDrop]

I thought Vegemite was a form of punishment, and also against the Geneva Convention?

I've had this stuff once and it was fucking disgusting, couldn't finish the slice of bread it was on. Ina's reaction is on point here lol!

No, I'm thinking fuck Cover for not covering at least some of Ame and Myth's expenses for setting up the studio she's making, and fuck Cover for being slow on the getting them in the country.

Amelia has this thing of not liking to make boatloads of money, she probably invested in this out of her own pocket and is doing it for her own streams, meaning she won't be pissed with Cover. Still, they should be financing her on this, HoloEN is their largest overseas branch and equivalent to almost a whole fifth of their overall talents (11 out of 68 total). If it's not logistically viable to build a studio in the U.S., they should refund every single purchase related to this by Amelia, including her power and internet bills. It's the smart thing to do unless they want to piss off one of their most creative and technically gifted talents, who is in very good terms with other high profile members including their most subbed talent of all!

Frankly, if they're going to kiss the floor where Sora walks by putting her fucking everywhere, it's fine, just treat your other talents with respect. Amelia isn't the best singer but she does a whole fucking lot for the company and should be treated as such, if they didn't learn from losing Coco they fucking should by now!

 

[Sevatonius]

Pretty sure they are literally not their employers and thats why the visa issue is so complicated. They are very likely just contractors.

Thats why this entire talk is always pointless.

You were the one pushing for this talk my guy, not me. I just wanted to say "Fuck Cover".

 

[EliteDoragon]

You were the one pushing for this talk my guy, not me. I just wanted to say "Fuck Cover".

No, you specifically went out of your way to elaborate on your rant when told to just drop it, twice.

If you don't want people replying to what you say, then just don't comment. Just say "Fuck cover" out loud next time.

Or just argue about it and don't complain.

In less retarded news:

The doggo is gonna be in the Sonic channel again

 

[Sevatonius]

No, you specifically went out of your way to elaborate on your rant when told to just drop it, twice.

If you don't want people replying to what you say, then just don't comment. Just say "Fuck cover" out loud next time.

Or just argue about it and don't complain.

You're the one making implications about what I was saying, forcing a response. If you're really annoyed by it, do yourself a favor, scroll over my name and press the ignore button.

 

[Lyra94]

How is immigration situation in Japan right now?

Tourists are still super limited in what they can do and where they can go, pretty sure you still get chaperoned around by a guide when outside the place you're staying.

Current border stuff

Aren't the girls considered as contractors? Would they even be allowed Work Visas?

Calli seems to be able to leave and renter Japan as many times as she likes. I know she already stopped her "scythe-swinging" lesson long ago. So they somehow able to procure a Work Visa for her? She is still a US citizen right?

Probably contractors yes, which makes work visas a nightmare.

IIRC Kiara had a weird visa, whereas if Calli's on a proper work visa then as far as I know you can usually keep it even when switching jobs, so long as you fill out the 8000 forms required by the immigration bureau. I only personally know people who've stuck to the one job so I'm not sure exactly how it works.

 

[EliteDoragon]

Probably contractors yes, which makes work visas a nightmare.

IIRC Kiara had a weird visa, whereas if Calli's on a proper work visa then as far as I know you can usually keep it even when switching jobs, so long as you fill out the 8000 forms required by the immigration bureau. I only personally know people who've stuck to the one job so I'm not sure exactly how it works.

Wtf was Keeki even doing for a job before becoming the Chicken? If she was properly employed then maybe she was doing what Calli is currently doing to extend her visa with her previous employment.

 

[DumDum Did Nothing Wrong]

Watching the Until Dawn stream Pomu did any word on when/if she'll get to do The Quarry?

 

[NuPerezzorcjunmunospolkos]

You're the one making implications about what I was saying, forcing a response. If you're really annoyed by it, do yourself a favor, scroll over my name and press the ignore button.

I'm not sure why you're angry over this. It was accepted months ago that this is out of Cover's hands and that Amelia was gonna have to put things together herself. Cover doesn't have the expense to build studios everywhere, and the country is such a clusterfuck with foreigners that just flying them over wasn't an option.

Calm the fuck down.

 

[Sevatonius]

Wtf was Keeki even doing for a job before becoming the Chicken? If she was properly employed then maybe she was doing what Calli is currently doing to extend her visa with her previous employment.

Keeki was using a Work Holiday Visa which is a year long visa where someone can go on holiday and work if they need to and it's valid for up to a year. As Rainwater said it was for the Olympics.

Nasa is streaming

 

[EliteDoragon]

I'm not sure why you're angry over this. It was accepted months ago that this is out of Cover's hands and that Amelia was gonna have to put things together herself. Cover doesn't have the expense to build studios everywhere, and the country is such a clusterfuck with foreigners that just flying them over wasn't an option.

Someone joked about, but it actually is true that Ame has freedom to use her studio, rent it and to do w/e the fuck she wants with it(Within reason for her activities as Amelia, of course since she still has a contract for her actual vtuber activities).

Cover having no involvement means they also have no ownership.

 

[Boopersnout]

Watching the Until Dawn stream Pomu did any word on when/if she'll get to do The Quarry?

She said she wants to do it when the multiplayer mode is released, so she can play with other nijien members. Thinks in early July

 

[RainwaterDrop]

Wtf was Keeki even doing for a job before becoming the Chicken? If she was properly employed then maybe she was doing what Calli is currently doing to extend her visa with her previous employment.

She originally came to work in the Olympics as far as I know, it didn't work out (obviously) so she stuck to trying to find work and living on her savings until she got the job at her last shot before coming back to Austria. That's what I recall reading!

This is what lead to her special stream with Calli, where they spent a "final weekend" together before her visa expired and she moved back home. Pretty sweet it all worked out for her, all things concerned!

 

[Burnt Fish]

No, but they are their employers and have been happy to take the money they earn from ID and EN branches and provide the fraction of the support they give to JP. They have the good fortune of having an unquestioning customer base who think this is fine as long as A-Chan tweets an enthusiastic message out in English once and a while or the girls come out and say a kind word about the company which is sounding more and more hollow. There was no real chance of getting Visa's month ago, but we're into late June/July and the borders have started to open up. They aren't some small business anymore. They wanted to grow past Japan but clearly haven't put a lot of actual thought into what that requires. They can't even provide the overseas talents with what they need on time.

as tiresome as it is to rehash this shit every couple weeks I guess we're time looping this for the dozenth time.
None of what you're saying here holds any water whatsoever.

Hololive talents are contractors and not employees, as Japanese labor laws are fucking retarded. If they were proper
employees terminations like Rushia's would be genuinely difficult for Cover to pull off. that changes the ballgame for juggling visas entirely. you're not getting in on a work visa as a contractor in the way you think they can provide.

And we know thanks to coco that the equipment Cover uses for their studio 3d costs a small fortune, tens of thousands of dollars. EN and ID are in no way centralized, there is no central location to put an external studio. Do they put one in north America and make the ID girls, the Aussies, and European hop continents whenever they want to use it? Does it make sense for them to rent a location and hire staff to work such a studio on top of the astronomical equipment costs for what still remains their side branches? individually some of these factors might be able to be handwaved, but when it's all of them and more it starts to get a lot more muddy.

Are all of these wrinkles attractive to deal with if on the whims of the Japanese government, things could open up more freely next month leaving them locked into leasing a studio overseas they no longer need, paying to staff it, and more than half the girls who it's intended for still have to travel internationally to use it anyway meaning they might as well just go to japan at that point.

Ironically from what you said, thinking "cover can just give EN and ID their own 3d studios like japan has" is more the stance that requires one to be unquestioning and not "put a lot of actual thought into what that requires." No business large or small likes to waste money on the scale this would require it's a bummer, it sucks, but it makes business sense.

Half the reason I even bothered writing this out was just so I can quote it later when the topic inevitably comes up again.

 

[Sevatonius]

Half the reason I even bothered writing this out was just so I can quote it later when the topic inevitably comes up again.

Fair enough, Not sure where I left the impression on people that think I want Cover to build studios for EN and ID (which has always been unreasonable) when all I suggested was financing Ame, but alright.

At least there's a happy ending to the Myth girls' shitshow of a day.

 

[Rezza]

as tiresome as it is to rehash this shit every couple weeks I guess we're time looping this for the dozenth time.
None of what you're saying here holds any water whatsoever.

Hololive talents are contractors and not employees, as Japanese labor laws are fucking retarded. If they were proper
employees terminations like Rushia's would be genuinely difficult for Cover to pull off. that changes the ballgame for juggling visas entirely. you're not getting in on a work visa as a contractor in the way you think they can provide.

And we know thanks to coco that the equipment Cover uses for their studio 3d costs a small fortune, tens of thousands of dollars. EN and ID are in no way centralized, there is no central location to put an external studio. Do they put one in north America and make the ID girls, the Aussies, and European hop continents whenever they want to use it? Does it make sense for them to rent a location and hire staff to work such a studio on top of the astronomical equipment costs for what still remains their side branches? individually some of these factors might be able to be handwaved, but when it's all of them and more it starts to get a lot more muddy.

Are all of these wrinkles attractive to deal with if on the whims of the Japanese government, things could open up more freely next month leaving them locked into leasing a studio overseas they no longer need, paying to staff it, and more than half the girls who it's intended for still have to travel internationally to use it anyway meaning they might as well just go to japan at that point.

Ironically from what you said, thinking "cover can just give EN and ID their own 3d studios like japan has" is more the stance that requires one to be unquestioning and not "put a lot of actual thought into what that requires." No business large or small likes to waste money on the scale this would require it's a bummer, it sucks, but it makes business sense.

Half the reason I even bothered writing this out was just so I can quote it later when the topic inevitably comes up again.

ID  is centralized on one area, despite what the ID members' Opsec want you to believe. The problem is, Indonesia doesn't have any appetite for Mocap, yet. So building a Mocap studio is not only going to be expensive in material and labor cost, but it's most likely going to sat unused for most of the time it's going to bleed more money to maintain

 

[Diya]

Will be interesting to see the production value of full committed 10 Million yen 3D home set up. Maybe Ame and Kson could share user experience as content creator if Cover continue to sit on their hands.

 

[sbm]

as tiresome as it is to rehash this shit every couple weeks I guess we're time looping this for the dozenth time.
None of what you're saying here holds any water whatsoever.

Hololive talents are contractors and not employees, as Japanese labor laws are fucking retarded. If they were proper
employees terminations like Rushia's would be genuinely difficult for Cover to pull off. that changes the ballgame for juggling visas entirely. you're not getting in on a work visa as a contractor in the way you think they can provide.

And we know thanks to coco that the equipment Cover uses for their studio 3d costs a small fortune, tens of thousands of dollars. EN and ID are in no way centralized, there is no central location to put an external studio. Do they put one in north America and make the ID girls, the Aussies, and European hop continents whenever they want to use it? Does it make sense for them to rent a location and hire staff to work such a studio on top of the astronomical equipment costs for what still remains their side branches? individually some of these factors might be able to be handwaved, but when it's all of them and more it starts to get a lot more muddy.

Are all of these wrinkles attractive to deal with if on the whims of the Japanese government, things could open up more freely next month leaving them locked into leasing a studio overseas they no longer need, paying to staff it, and more than half the girls who it's intended for still have to travel internationally to use it anyway meaning they might as well just go to japan at that point.

Ironically from what you said, thinking "cover can just give EN and ID their own 3d studios like japan has" is more the stance that requires one to be unquestioning and not "put a lot of actual thought into what that requires." No business large or small likes to waste money on the scale this would require it's a bummer, it sucks, but it makes business sense.

Half the reason I even bothered writing this out was just so I can quote it later when the topic inevitably comes up again.

You're not wrong that it's a big investment, but they could do it and it's getting to the point where it's worthwhile. The studio in Japan is booked solid for months already. They're pumping out 3d content at a miraculous pace and adding in 20 more regular users between ID and EN will stretch that well past the breaking point. I think there's already a solid argument for a studio in Jakarta (9 ID + 2 aussies), and it'd only be one more EN gen to get the same number in NA. Birthday merch sales are 250k-1mil each, being able to promote that even 10-15% more with a good 3d event could be worthwhile, and that's just one potential use-case.

I honestly don't think 10k or even 100k of equipment cost is a massive object, staffing is a far bigger and more expensive issue. And Cover didn't start with some incredible mocap studio. They started with this scuffed-ass setup:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1s4411s77q

(at about 3:55. if the link doesn't work copy it instead)

I'm not going to point fingers at Cover for being behind on supporting their expansion, the growth of both ID and EN vtubing happened in a flash, but even if they're playing catchup it's going to happen eventually, and the demand is there now. Just their Japanese talents are firing off 3d events multiple times a week, every single week.

 

[Burnt Fish]

ID  is centralized on one area, despite what the ID members' Opsec want you to believe. The problem is, Indonesia doesn't have any appetite for Mocap, yet. So building a Mocap studio is not only going to be expensive in material and labor cost, but it's most likely going to sat unused for most of the time it's going to bleed more money to maintain

aye my angle there was more that they just aren't going to do a studio for both ID and EN since I don't think they'd ever do a full setup for just 9 girls given the costs of setting it up and operating it. so it would have to be for "EN and ID" together, at which point a studio in ID isn't so "centralized" any more. easy to access for the Aussies and the ID girls and that's about it.