Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Niggerphobe]

I hear David Holl sexes up minors. Guilty until proven innocent

I thought he got fired because of that

 

[Mr.Bones]

Yeah, it's safe to say that this nonsense has completely dried out. The guy who started this nonsense with his stupid "I'm exposing Vivziepop!" Tumblr thread has gone completely silent and it's now just a bunch of noisy clout vultures trying to defame her for Twitter Likes.

 

[MuuMuu Bunnylips]

Yeah, it's safe to say that this nonsense has completely dried out. The guy who started this nonsense with his stupid "I'm exposing Vivziepop!" Tumblr thread has gone completely silent and it's now just a bunch of noisy clout vultures trying to defame her for Twitter Likes.

But for us, it was Tuesday.

 

[immigrant32]

 

[Racist Trash]

Spoiler: Spoils for that vid

Oh shit Octavia did the owl 180 neck turn thing

 

[Gaymead]

Thr trailer for season 2 has dropped.

Late, but necessary:

Spoiler: Archive of Trailer

In my opinion, this trailer was pretty disappointing, a disjointed mish-mash of different ideas cobbled together with little cohesion and intrigue apart from new characters that look like someone's OCs; especially for a follow-up season to one that was really about putting out new ideas with little further development througout, apart from the whole Stolitz-Ship, which I hate because it adds little flavor to the show apart from the "gaesecks" factor that tries to become more than a joke and ends up becoming pointless petty drama.

Spoiler: Archive of Leaked Footage

Here's the link: https://files.catbox.moe/gqkq9k.mp4

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

apart from new characters that look like someone's OCs

That's because they ARE someone's OCs. Viv's to be specific.

 

[SafetyDancer]

I want figures dropped. Like, how much was she paying them, how often, how many hours were worked in total, etc. It's problematic to act like you're a professional when you don't pay your people like professionals.

I'm a 2D animator and worked on features, tv shows and indie projects, and once applied for a job at Spindle Horse. I thanked them for the job and didn't even bother with the test, because pay was way below the norm, and there were various red flags. I'll try to break it down:

- Pay was $60 per approved second (12 drawings) of cleanup. However, for the job of cleanup, they also expected you to finish animation on details like eye shadows, clothing, hair.... and they expected you to color the animation. They use gradients in their character designs, so it takes some effort to color these gradients consistently (which they demanded with emphasis). So you're essentially doing three jobs. Altogether, you're looking at 3-4 hours to finish one take of a simple shot, or $120 a day if you're lucky enough to not get retakes. Minimum standards on indie projects are $200 a day.
- They don't specify a limit of retakes. So they can just keep requesting changes. The norm on low budget projects is a maximum of 2 retakes.
- They don't differentiate the complexity of shots. Usually a studio will pay a higher price for more complex shots, because it will take you longer to finish. Or they just offer a daily rate instead of paying per approved second. So who knows how long it will take you to work on a more complex shot for just $60 per second.

The problem with projects like Vivziepop's is likely that she has a lot of internet artists working for her who either don't know normal prices, or don't care because they're fans and they're excited to work on her shows. So I don't know, maybe it's on them if they accept the job under these conditions. Or maybe they were too inexperienced to know beforehand just how much work it really is.

 

[S@credC]

The problem with projects like Vivziepop's is likely that she has a lot of internet artists working for her who either don't know normal prices, or don't care because they're fans and they're excited to work on her shows. So I don't know, maybe it's on them if they accept the job under these conditions. Or maybe they were too inexperienced to know beforehand just how much work it really is.

That tracks with what Erin Frost said about the type of employee Viv hires. They were excited for the chance to work with an artist they admired, regardless of the working conditions or the pay. I know Erin's basically been cast as the embittered, entitled ex employee who couldn't hack it, but it does sound like there are legit grievances about pay in relation to the amount of work thats required to get the final product out (not to mention working with such complex character designs). A lot of people are impressed with how Viv has managed to get a pilot and a whole show off the ground on her own, but I think it's worth looking closer at how she achieved that. It sounds like 1) this is far outside the industry standard and 2) is driven mostly by the cult of personality that thrives on social media, particularly of the Tumblr/Twitter variety.

 

[samuraicrack]

Sam Heft (and some others) still going hard on the defense.

Lmao this dude is more or less like a glorified PR manager for Vivzie at this point, even if you like her and think the accusations against her are stupid idk how you can look at this sycophantic circlejerky shit and not roll your eyes at how gay the whole thing is

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Lmao this dude is more or less like a glorified PR manager for Vivzie at this point, even if you like her and think the accusations against her are stupid idk how you can look at this sycophantic circlejerky shit and not roll your eyes at how gay the whole thing is

Eh, the over the top accusations and “literally Hitler!” people are much more irritating, imo. But I just really despise manufactured drama.

 

[One Man Bland]

I'm a 2D animator and worked on features, tv shows and indie projects, and once applied for a job at Spindle Horse. I thanked them for the job and didn't even bother with the test, because pay was way below the norm, and there were various red flags. I'll try to break it down:

- Pay was $60 per approved second (12 drawings) of cleanup. However, for the job of cleanup, they also expected you to finish animation on details like eye shadows, clothing, hair.... and they expected you to color the animation. They use gradients in their character designs, so it takes some effort to color these gradients consistently (which they demanded with emphasis). So you're essentially doing three jobs. Altogether, you're looking at 3-4 hours to finish one take of a simple shot, or $120 a day if you're lucky enough to not get retakes. Minimum standards on indie projects are $200 a day.
- They don't specify a limit of retakes. So they can just keep requesting changes. The norm on low budget projects is a maximum of 2 retakes.
- They don't differentiate the complexity of shots. Usually a studio will pay a higher price for more complex shots, because it will take you longer to finish. Or they just offer a daily rate instead of paying per approved second. So who knows how long it will take you to work on a more complex shot for just $60 per second.

The problem with projects like Vivziepop's is likely that she has a lot of internet artists working for her who either don't know normal prices, or don't care because they're fans and they're excited to work on her shows. So I don't know, maybe it's on them if they accept the job under these conditions. Or maybe they were too inexperienced to know beforehand just how much work it really is.

This makes sense. It should also be noted that typically one episode of an animated series produced by a studio takes about 10-12 months to complete. Even assuming Frost was exaggerating about the 1-2 month deadlines and production for the rest of the episodes was happening alongside of not long after the pilots, that still puts the deadlines at around 6-8 months an episode roughly.

Even if Frost turns out to be a shit-stirrer, the project having deadlines and pay issues lower than what’s standard don’t seem that far fetched.

 

[S@credC]

Lmao this dude is more or less like a glorified PR manager for Vivzie at this point, even if you like her and think the accusations against her are stupid idk how you can look at this sycophantic circlejerky shit and not roll your eyes at how gay the whole thing is

Eh, the over the top accusations and “literally Hitler!” people are much more irritating, imo. But I just really despise manufactured drama.

The lack of level-headed-ness and nuance is grating.

 

[Elpizo]

Here's Husk.

 

[The Fair Lady]

I think the suspenders are a nice touch.

 

[HarpersFerryWest]

Here's Husk.

View attachment 3442648

I like it. They simplified the design in a way where Husk is still easily identifiable, but it won't destroy the animators' hands when filling in the fine details.

Original Twitter link and archive for posterity's sake:

https://twitter.com/HazbinHotel/status/1542538528881606657?cxt=HHwWgoC8pdGnmegqAAAA

https://archive.ph/v8jwI

 

[Racist Trash]

Hmm we can't see the bottom of the wings which had the card symbols on which I assume they will be gone to save some sanity considering the design in general has been simplified.

 

[AnOminous]

I like it. They simplified the design in a way where Husk is still easily identifiable, but it won't destroy the animators' hands when filling in the fine details.

Original Twitter link and archive for posterity's sake:

https://twitter.com/HazbinHotel/status/1542538528881606657?cxt=HHwWgoC8pdGnmegqAAAA

https://archive.ph/v8jwI

The new designs really seem to show Vivz has in fact been thinking about the impact of these complex designs on the animators, as well as the necessities of working on an actual network schedule, and is willing to compromise on some things.

Also is that heart in the inside of his ear new? I can't find it in the pilot gallery. I wonder if there's a different suit in the other ear.

 

[Yamma Damma]

Here's Husk.

View attachment 3442648

holy shit they hardly toned down anything on him. Fuck the prayers I hope there's a physical therapist on call for the poor bastards.

I like it. They simplified the design in a way where Husk is still easily identifiable, but it won't destroy the animators' hands when filling in the fine details.

I disagree. Compare the redesign to the pilot design.

His tattoos are still all over the place over-exemplifying he's a card-dealing demon who despite claiming he lost the will to love years ago, has mostly hearts everywhere. There shouldn't be so many hearts to convey this symbolism though (and on his nose like a fucking care bear). Husker's design is a mess but at least he has potential character-wise.

The new designs really seem to show Vivz has in fact been thinking about the impact of these complex designs on the animators, as well as the necessities of working on an actual network schedule, and is willing to compromise on some things.

Also is that heart in the inside of his ear new? I can't find it in the pilot gallery. I wonder if there's a different suit in the other ear.

I got it for you. They used to be stripes, now it's more hearts.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Husk looks alright. The only redesign I really don't like is Charlie herself. Too much red, and I miss her old hair.