Home Buying / Housing Market Griefing Thread - You're going to rent until you die.

If you're landlording, you need to pay attention to property tax and equity more than cost for a mortgage, cause those stack up. I have a friend who rents his properties out to college kids, and property tax nearly killed him when he was starting out. Equity made it almost impossible to sell the place and recoup sunk costs. Basically had to act as his accountant while he was still figuring things out
 
Once we're talking about tens of thousands of dollars, you should be investing that money. Letting $30,000 sit in a savings account benefits the bank, not you. Savings accounts are generally a scam anyway, even when you account for taxes on interest.

Plenty of secure and predictable investment options exist. If you don't plan on touching your savings for several years, you can commit them to bonds. Right now, 1-year investment-grade corporate bonds are running at about 2.5% on average, and 5-years are running at ~3.8% on average. If you hold bonds to maturity, the market value of those bonds will not matter as long as the company doesn't fall bankrupt-and even if it does, bondholders have first claim to the company's assets during liquidation. Invest to your risk tolerance. If you want to go a little riskier, B-rated and lower bonds will offer better yields. Bankruptcy is basically a negligible risk for A-rated bonds, especially after Enron.

I think Charles Schwab is one major eBrokerage that lets you trade bonds. It's barely harder than maintaining a savings account, and it eliminates a parasitic middleman. Just do it.
 
I had a thought. When you buy a house, you pay maybe up to 20% of the cost of the house up front, but the bank covers the other 80% and effectively "owns" the house until you pay them back. So they might as well pay 100% and just rent the house to you, right? Wouldn't they make more money in the long run? What's stopping just all the banks from owning all the houses?

This seems like such an obvious idea that I'm sure I'm missing something simple.
They don’t hold that 80%. They borrow cash from the federal reserve at a lower rate, at a multiplier above their deposits. Then they sell the bonds to Freddie Mac or Fannie May who in turn secures them and sells MBS including 1000s of various mortgages of different risk levels. The bank makes money off that short term arbitrage and is then free and clear of the risk or reward of holding that loan. Smaller credit unions may actually secure your loan for its entirety as they are community and member focused but rarely will a national bank hold onto yours for a few months.
 
I'm not a fan of never owning a house, but simultaneously buying and owning a house is a hard fucking sell currently. Especially in the uncertain job market, inflation excuse laden gouging and the generally price to live fucked modern era. That and the feeling of actually owning a damn thing has never felt weaker.

The most basic dummied down explanation and expectations to keep if you want to own a home right now has been explained to me as the following.

"Could you go to bed without a care in the world if you just decided to flush five to ten thousand dollars down the shitter once every 4 years potentially. Or would you be ruined in year one?"

Since a lot of properties not already being sat on or snapped up by the great bracklock buyout might have a stealth issue waiting to creep up on you, or some long term poverty problem that was allowed to go to shit silently in the background and it's why it's being sold in the first place. Or you buy it KNOWING it's a fixxer upper and you have drastically under estimated.

And when you own the damn thing you're responsible for every last bit of it now. I've seen people where I live lose their asses after inheriting a white elephant of a property from a deceased relative or in an inheritance.

Relatedly, For renting instead of owning a strong incidental benefit there is the sheer "Can't someone else do it?" factor in terms of maintenance and disaster concerns. As long as you're not being a dickhead and actively contributing to something going to shit - There's usually no problem.

Since if you don't get overly attached to nor delusionally view a rental property as your forever yours house like some special people do. You now have the freedom to simply pull up stakes and say fuck it if the neighborhood goes to shit without recourse and without losing a dime of house value. And owe nothing on repairs if hurricane rosco rolls in and throws your roof into the ditch.
 
I'm waiting to settle in my current job before buying a house.
Until them I am going to rent a place that is cheap as fuck.
Not glam but who gives a shit.
 
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Long time lurker here and figured I’d chime in.

Reading this thread is a great reminder that “hindsight is 20/20” but it seems many forget how darn precarious things were when the lockdowns started in early 2020 and the economy started to blip downwards at an exponential rate (prior to the free government money).

I considered buying a house in early 2020, but my job situation was exceptionally precarious due to the environment at the time and I don’t exactly come from money, so at the time I made the snap decision to rent for a year or so, then re-evaluate. Looking back on it, maybe I should have fought harder to purchase when I had the chance, but once again, hindsight comes into play. I had no idea that the super low interest rates, stimmy checks, and sweeping forgiveness on PPP loans would have caused the conditions we see today.

There seems to be an air of smugness around here with homebuyers who lucked out. To them, I do say congrats for having the foresight to buy when you did, but have some grace and understanding for those who didn’t manage to buy before the massive inflationary period we are in now. It kind of reeks of an attitude of “fuck you, I’ve gotten mine” which is getting kind of old. The cryptocurrency cohort, particularly on Reddit, acted very similarly during the last bullrun.

For someone like myself, and countless others I’m sure, renting will be the only reasonable option until the mortgage rate hikes apply more downward pressure on housing prices. Since real estate is slow, and some house flippers are in denial about the whole mortgage rate affecting buying power thing at the moment, it probably won’t be for another year or so until I can even begin to look. I’m utterly priced out at the current rates… full stop.

In the meantime, I’ll continue to build a nest egg on which to use towards a down payment. Hoping for the best, but frankly anything is bound to happen. I’ll hedge my bets in the meantime with my IRA, index funds, emergency food supplies, etc.
I think the issue is back in 2020 people around here started clanging the alarm bell really loudly. What smugness there is is probably less aimed at the people who didn't get out in time, and more that for once the doomers were right.
 
Before the pandemic and the housing market really exploded I almost bought an incredible house with one of the most insane backyard decks I've ever seen. I had a number I was focused on and got beat out by like $5,000. Looking back on it now it was definitely one of my worst decisions and 4+ years later I'm still living in a fucking apartment.
 
Before the pandemic and the housing market really exploded I almost bought an incredible house with one of the most insane backyard decks I've ever seen. I had a number I was focused on and got beat out by like $5,000. Looking back on it now it was definitely one of my worst decisions and 4+ years later I'm still living in a fucking apartment.
When I went hunting with my mortgage approval amount, I didn't play games. When an opportunity came up, I told my agent to shove all the chips onto the table. In the case of where I live now, that came out to $20,000 over asking price and no pre-sale inspection. Property "as is". The seller agreed 3 days later. Agent said I was nuts and would have to come down because there was no way the mortgage lender would agree once the assessment came back. Assessment said I had undervalued the property by $5,000. Lender agreed to close. A year later if zillow is to be believed the property is worth $25,000 more today then it was a year ago.

It really just underscores how absolutely insane the housing market is right now. And just how lucky I was. For one thing there was nothing majorly wrong with the property. The most I had to do was repair the AC/Heating unit. Also, the only reason I even shoved so aggressively was thanks to this shithole forum convincing me I needed to get out of my shitbox urban apartment post haste.

For those still trying to get out, it's not too late, yet. Provided you are willing to make some serious sacrifices vis a vis location. You will have to buy out in bumfuck nowhere or the ghetto to get a reasonable price. Though at this point wait and see may also serve you well. Mortgage rates have actually gone down recently due to crashing demand for mortgages. Really strong bubble popping indicators when it comes to real estate.
 
When I went hunting with my mortgage approval amount, I didn't play games. When an opportunity came up, I told my agent to shove all the chips onto the table. In the case of where I live now, that came out to $20,000 over asking price and no pre-sale inspection. Property "as is". The seller agreed 3 days later. Agent said I was nuts and would have to come down because there was no way the mortgage lender would agree once the assessment came back. Assessment said I had undervalued the property by $5,000. Lender agreed to close. A year later if zillow is to be believed the property is worth $25,000 more today then it was a year ago.

It really just underscores how absolutely insane the housing market is right now. And just how lucky I was. For one thing there was nothing majorly wrong with the property. The most I had to do was repair the AC/Heating unit. Also, the only reason I even shoved so aggressively was thanks to this shithole forum convincing me I needed to get out of my shitbox urban apartment post haste.

For those still trying to get out, it's not too late, yet. Provided you are willing to make some serious sacrifices vis a vis location. You will have to buy out in bumfuck nowhere or the ghetto to get a reasonable price. Though at this point wait and see may also serve you well. Mortgage rates have actually gone down recently due to crashing demand for mortgages. Really strong bubble popping indicators when it comes to real estate.

It's an interesting time. I believe the odds are very good we'll see ~20% reductions in prices for the majority of markets, and maybe around ~30% for the heavy overvalued markers like Boise, Dallas, most of Florida, etc. The primary driving force being the decrease in demand, which will likely wipe out any of the "covid gains." This definitely won't be a repeat of 2008 though. The market is healthier than its been for a long time, and lending standards have only gotten stricter (don't think I've seen anybody get an ARM since like 2010 lol).

That being said, mortgage rates are only going to increase to combat double digit inflation. Simultaneously, rent is only going to keep increasing as a result, likely keeping demand for homes high (not 2020/21 high but still higher than average).

I find it unlikely that rates will be dropping in the next 5 years or so (but could be wrong), so no matter what you'll get buttfucked, whether or not you overpaid, or interest will rape you. However, any corrections in the market will likely rebound way faster than 2008, as there isn't a subprime crisis or underlying housing issues this time around. Just a massively skewed supply and demand. This will allow you to sell and/or refinance hopefully within 5-10 years, only if need be of course. Plus, supply overall has still not recovered from the housing crisis, which was one of the variables in homes becoming so expensive in the past decade.

All in all, don't worry about timing the market. If you want to buy a house and you are financially and mentally ready, go for it. Houses are long term investments, and unless you know exactly what you're doing (you probably don't) you shouldn't be purchasing a home unless you wish to stay in it for at least 5 years. Preferably more than 10 if the market so deems it.

As an aside, I bought my second home in early 2007 (yikes). Needless to say, my ass got fried. But I still own it, its worth ~$50k more than I bought it for, and it's almost paid off. Yeah, I could have gotten a better deal, but I'm not going to be a sulky little bitch about it. Just buy and hold.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, I'm old and tired.
 
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All in all, don't worry about timing the market. If you want to buy a house and you are financially and mentally ready, go for it. Houses are long term investments, and unless you know exactly what you're doing (you probably don't) you shouldn't be purchasing a home unless you wish to stay in it for at least 5 years. Preferably more than 10 if the market so deems it.

This right here is key. Thinking about my current lifestyle choices, I really like "new" experiences and locations. Being tied down doesn't sound ideal unless I plan on getting married or something in the future, in which case, yeah sure, sign me up for a property for a decade plus.

I still cringe at not pulling the trigger on buying a new house in early 2020, but it is what it is.
 
Walking around my neighborhood, I noticed an increasing trend. There is no HOA and where I live is unincorporated so a lot of anything goes. More and more of my neighbors have sublet parts of their properties to travel trailers or fifth wheels. So far, there hasn't been problem, but it does concern me for a few reasons. I think this is where a lot of the missing workers are ending up - black market employed and living in someone's backyard for a quarter of what they would pay for an apartment, let alone a house.
 
Walking around my neighborhood, I noticed an increasing trend. There is no HOA and where I live is unincorporated so a lot of anything goes. More and more of my neighbors have sublet parts of their properties to travel trailers or fifth wheels. So far, there hasn't been problem, but it does concern me for a few reasons. I think this is where a lot of the missing workers are ending up - black market employed and living in someone's backyard for a quarter of what they would pay for an apartment, let alone a house.

Could be something called "house hacking," where people build additions or sublets on their homes to have a renter pay a majority of the costs (if having a roommate in the same structure isn't possible, usually).

Most likely though it's your neighbors taking out irresponsible HELOCS to finance trailers and other toys. A lot of people got star eyed at the amount of equity they had and figured they could leverage it to buy stupid shit.

If they did so, they're probably hurting from higher interest rates, and the potential for their home values to drop a bit.
 
Could be something called "house hacking," where people build additions or sublets on their homes to have a renter pay a majority of the costs (if having a roommate in the same structure isn't possible, usually).

Most likely though it's your neighbors taking out irresponsible HELOCS to finance trailers and other toys. A lot of people got star eyed at the amount of equity they had and figured they could leverage it to buy stupid shit.

If they did so, they're probably hurting from higher interest rates, and the potential for their home values to drop a bit.
Am I a complete poorfag, and you can tell me if I am, but why do people feel comfortable doing this? If I had a home and it was spitting out money, I'd use it to pay off the house faster.
 
Could be something called "house hacking," where people build additions or sublets on their homes to have a renter pay a majority of the costs (if having a roommate in the same structure isn't possible, usually).

Most likely though it's your neighbors taking out irresponsible HELOCS to finance trailers and other toys. A lot of people got star eyed at the amount of equity they had and figured they could leverage it to buy stupid shit.

If they did so, they're probably hurting from higher interest rates, and the potential for their home values to drop a bit.
No, there are people living full time in these things. It is not some retardedly bought RV. There are three to four of these things on some properties with full electric ran to them.
 
No, there are people living full time in these things. It is not some retardedly bought RV. There are three to four of these things on some properties with full electric ran to them.


Probably house hacking then. Its getting more and more common, especially as rent has been increasing fairly substantially. If you are able and willing, it's a great way to pay down your mortgage and/or cut costs.

Not sure about the legality of it all but what the county/borough doesn't know won't hurt them lol. I've heard of similar instances of this but it was back during the dot com burst. Pretty sure those dudes were cooking meth though.

Personally, I've always had a roommate for most of my life (never married). But I buy homes that can accommodate that.


It's mostly because of these dipshit realtors thinking they can still appreciate homes at 10%+ every month as interest rates rise. Demand simply isn't what it was, and the market is starting to return to a normal state.

I wrote up a long boomer post about it, but it's fair and reasonable to expect ~20% price drops, especially in super overvalued areas like Boise.
 
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Walking around my neighborhood, I noticed an increasing trend. There is no HOA and where I live is unincorporated so a lot of anything goes. More and more of my neighbors have sublet parts of their properties to travel trailers or fifth wheels. So far, there hasn't been problem, but it does concern me for a few reasons. I think this is where a lot of the missing workers are ending up - black market employed and living in someone's backyard for a quarter of what they would pay for an apartment, let alone a house.
Huh, this is an interesting idea. What's the going rate for this? I ain't doing shit with the back half of my property. Wouldn't mind someone paying me 300 bucks a month for someone to park their van there and live out of it or a tent. It's also not like I have any neighbors to complain either.
 
Huh, this is an interesting idea. What's the going rate for this? I ain't doing shit with the back half of my property. Wouldn't mind someone paying me 300 bucks a month for someone to park their van there and live out of it or a tent. It's also not like I have any neighbors to complain either.
I'd suggest looking around FB marketplace or Craigslist or the equivalent in your country for ideas of what your local market will bear. But this does appear to be a thing where the local ordinances allow. I have seen it also outside my hood.
 
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After the market gets corrected and supply costs for construction go down to a normal level, more people should hire local architects and construction to build a real home. Growing up I lived in a neighborhood of mostly historic homes with 2-3 beds and half baths (1920-30s) and they are all different in layout and design. It creates a more human looking setting with places people would feel at home with. Nowadays, we have suburban hellscapes that come in 4 layout options, built by mexicans who can't give a shit to make the exterior concrete smooth. Imagine looking at an angle to your house during sunrise and the walls look lumpy.
 
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