Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

Aso please don't tell me what I think that's extremely annoying.

Fuck off pansy.

 

[AnOminous]

Stomach cancer used to be a common cause of death in the U.S., although probably not the same type, and has decreased dramatically in incidence, probably due to the reduction in consumption of smoked meats (which used to be a necessity if you wanted to eat meat when it wasn't butchering season) and fewer people using chewing tobacco.

It was probably fairly similar, as a lot of the Chinese stomach cancer is considered to be related to excessive consumption of preserved foods, often with pretty questionable preservatives. Before the FDA, food poisoning and toxic adulterants were a common thing.

At this point I just want to follow @Thomas Eugene Paris around the farms and learn medicine. Between the Hartley post here and the MRIs on Lunas thread, I think my brain grew three sizes today.

Uh-oh. You're turning into Luna!

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

At this point I just want to follow @Thomas Eugene Paris around the farms and learn medicine. Between the Hartley post here and the MRIs on Lunas thread, I think my brain grew three sizes today.

Careful, or we are going to put you in a gait trainer and drag you around the Kiwi Pavilion by your head. If you do a GOOD JAAAAAHB, you may have a breastmilk, calf liver, and pureed squash waterboarding, but I make no promises.

 

[Jeep1971]

That’s an interesting point and I think perpetual one-upmanship is a universal trait in all mommy communities online, no matter what the topic.

I stumbled across a Tiktok account a while ago from a woman who’d lost her little girl and put a Wendy house on top of the grave, fully kitted out with lights, soft furnishings and books so she could spend all hours of the day and night there. The account seems to be 50% flexing about what a dutiful loss mama she is, and 50% arguing with people who say what she’s doing isn’t the healthiest outlet for her grief.

Wendy house? I'm not familiar.

 

[Wine em Dine em 69 em]

Fuck off pansy.

I’m going to jump in here, then I’ll stfu about it. @A tree has some extremely relevant posts in this thread when it comes to what these Tard moms are doing wrong. Personally I like trying to figure out what’s going on in these women’s heads, and it is a bit more sophisticated than regular shitposting.
If you take A Tree at face value, she lost a newborn herself, and reads to me as though she has healthy insightful takes on grief, which is at the core of this thread.

 

[DatBepisTho]

Wendy house? I'm not familiar.

It's like a miniature house for children to play in but they also serve as she sheds.
Some get pretty technical and fancy in their designs, too.

 

[A tree]

I’m going to jump in here, then I’ll stfu about it. @A tree has some extremely relevant posts in this thread when it comes to what these Tard moms are doing wrong. Personally I like trying to figure out what’s going on in these women’s heads, and it is a bit more sophisticated than regular shitposting.
If you take A Tree at face value, she lost a newborn herself, and reads to me as though she has healthy insightful takes on grief, which is at the core of this thread.

I'm not here to argue or get MOTI. It's only pixels on the Internet. Personally I feel I have something of value to add to the discussion that I can't talk about with 100% honesty anywhere else online. I could provide proof of all of it if the mods wanted to see it but I'd like to think my lived experience speaks for itself . If it makes someone angry that's their own shit and they can keep it or mute me or whatever.

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

I’m not so sure all of that was technically even cancer. Before the days of refrigeration, you were taking a gamble by buying meat at the local market, especially in cities where you couldn’t own livestock. It’s why Heinz invented ketchup. The meat tasted so bad it had to be drowned in sauce just to make it palatable. Lots of “stomach issues” were going around. Scary times.

People who are interested in this subject should Google "ptomaine" or "ptomaine poisoning", which was a hugely prevalent cause of death during much of the 19th century. It was sort of akin to the miasma theory of disease, but food-specific. It was believed that bacteria contained in decaying plant or animal matter produced toxic alkaloids called ptomaines, which were purported to cause severe or even fatal illness when consumed.

Fear of ptomaine poisoning was widespread, with many reports of illness outbreaks and deaths from ptomaine consumption in newspapers throughout the 19th century and well into the 20th, persisting even after the theory of ptomaines was thoroughly debunked. The concept was so deeply etched into the collective consciousness that natural death by "ptomaine poisoning" appears in several Agatha Christie novels as a potential alternate explanation for a murder. Writing in the Lancet, the English medical historian William Bynum, who was born in 1943, explains,

Ptomaine poisoning, along with polio and botulism, was one of the terrors of my childhood. (I also feared I had tuberculosis.) Three of these scourges are still with us, but the niche usefully filled by ptomaine poisoning has had a variety of other tags, often imprecisely used: gastric flu, “a virus”, food poisoning, Salmonella, and E coli.

Now, ptomaine poisoning is often described as synonymous with foodborne illness, but it's important to note that it actually was believed to be caused not by bacteria themselves, but by toxic substances they produced. While it is true that some bacteria do produce substances that can cause foodborne illness, it's not the most common mechanism.

Spoiler: History of medicine tangent

Also, I highly recommend Bynum's writing for anyone interested in the history of medicine, particularly in the 19th and early 20th centuries. He frequently collaborated with the late Roy Porter, his colleague at the erstwhile Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine at University College London. Porter is one of my favorite authors and I think a lot of posters here would like his writing, as well. I recommend starting with his book The Greatest Benefit to Mankind: a Social History of Medicine, which is lengthy but very readable. His writing about madness and the asylum is also excellent.

 

[allthecheese]

I'll PL about Dobyns a bit. I've taken my daughter to see him twice. He's extremely dry and no-bullshit. This creates a huge rift in the parent community. I appreciate it, because, after constantly hearing all the stupid platitudes of "God won't give you more than you can handle" it was refreshing to have someone come right out an say "your kid probably won't live past her 20s." Some people take that incredibly personally and take it as a challenge. I see it all the time in the groups. "The doctor says my kid won't ever walk?" "Don't listen momma, they don't know your baby like you do" "doctors don't know anything" "just keep doing the therapies" The idea being if you do the work, you can overcome anything.
Sometimes the brain is just too messed up, and the kid doesn't walk. It isn't personal.
So they'll even ask, "Should I go see Dobyns?" Literally the BEST guy in the field, and other parents will talk them out of it, because he's "too negative."
I didn't even find him to be an asshole, and I'll agree with the previous poster, some of these guys that are the top in their field are extremely up their own ass. He's just not a warm fuzzy type.

 

[Allo Vera]

Wendy house? I'm not familiar.

Sorry, it was a phrase I thought was universal but maybe it’s strictly a Britbong term. I mean a miniature playhouse.

This is it:



And this is how it’s decked out inside:

 

[AnOminous]

The concept was so deeply etched into the collective consciousness that natural death by "ptomaine poisoning" appears in several Agatha Christie novels as a potential alternate explanation for a murder.

I've actually heard really old people use "ptomaine poisoning" as a synonym for food poisoning in general. The specific person I'm thinking of died of old age over 20 years ago though.

 

[Melankia]

Wow that list of disorders. Although that's about really strict sects like amish and mennonite I bet it applies to a lesser degree to other types of Insular fundies. Thinking of JillPMs janessa and her funky brain structure.
It's probably not a coincidence to many tater moms are fundies and not just because they won't abort.

I hate to be fair to Jillpm but Janessa is a tard due to having a stroke in-utero likely brought on by Jill’s continued use of plexus during her pregnancy

 

[Murder Bunny]

I didn't even find him to be an asshole, and I'll agree with the previous poster, some of these guys that are the top in their field are extremely up their own ass. He's just not a warm fuzzy type.

Nothing makes me feel safer than a specialist or attending physician who thinks my chart is extremely effing boring. It's like a seal of approval. If their eyes light up you should update your life insurance.

 

[A tree]

Sorry, it was a phrase I thought was universal but maybe it’s strictly a Britbong term. I mean a miniature playhouse.

This is it:

View attachment 3534992

And this is how it’s decked out inside:

View attachment 3534997

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/little-nadine-earles-doll-house-grave-lanett

Here's a well known historic example. I wonder if they're trying to copy it.

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

I'll PL about Dobyns a bit. I've taken my daughter to see him twice. He's extremely dry and no-bullshit. This creates a huge rift in the parent community. I appreciate it, because, after constantly hearing all the stupid platitudes of "God won't give you more than you can handle" it was refreshing to have someone come right out an say "your kid probably won't live past her 20s." Some people take that incredibly personally and take it as a challenge. I see it all the time in the groups. "The doctor says my kid won't ever walk?" "Don't listen momma, they don't know your baby like you do" "doctors don't know anything" "just keep doing the therapies" The idea being if you do the work, you can overcome anything.
Sometimes the brain is just too messed up, and the kid doesn't walk. It isn't personal.
So they'll even ask, "Should I go see Dobyns?" Literally the BEST guy in the field, and other parents will talk them out of it, because he's "too negative."
I didn't even find him to be an asshole, and I'll agree with the previous poster, some of these guys that are the top in their field are extremely up their own ass. He's just not a warm fuzzy type.

This is one of the most informative posts in this thread, so I want to acknowledge it. Thank you for posting.

When I described him as likely an "asshole", I didn't really mean that he was wanton or cruel. I just meant, having interacted with more than my share of people like him, that he's probably a hardcore realist and might be a little brusque or curt. He didn't become what he is by telling people that their children's severe brain malformations have no real effect and their little rockstar is going to be just fine when neither of those things are true. Honestly, a realistic, factual summary of what is wrong, the likely cause, and what will happen as a consequence, without a lot of euphemism or equivocating, is far, far kinder than telling desperate parents in their worst hour that everything will be just fine when you know it probably won't be. Personally, I think it's unfathomably cruel to spend decades learning about something, then withhold that knowledge from those it impacts the most simply because it might hurt them to hear the truth. I suspect in many cases, parents do understand that he's likely correct and he's not just sharing the grimmest possibilities to be unkind to them or their children specifically, but there's likely an element of denial at play.

Spoiler: Got a little ranty, sorry.

I also think that it's a pretty uniquely American thing to view a poor prognosis as a "challenge" which can be used to prove that an expert is actually a moron just like everyone else. We're very big on mythologizing seriously ill or disabled people as heroes and warriors, tasked with fighting a battle on behalf of the weak and underestimated. A diagnosis isn't a statement of fact, it's a challenge. A person with a serious illness who decides not to exhaust all treatment options, no matter how slim the odds of a cure or even a meaningful difference in survival, has "given up" or lacks courage and needs goddamn everyone to tell him encouraging anecdotes. A drug that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars but only improves survival for a few miserable weeks or months is hailed as a cutting edge treatment that every patient must be allowed try. Obtaining "compassionate use" allowances for drugs means that there's still a chance of cure! Even though Grandpa was just diagnosed with pneumonia, has late-stage dementia, and his tumors have doubled in size despite aggressive treatment, he would definitely not want a DNR, so you better CPR the shit out of that motherfucker and put a tube down his throat in case he gets momentarily discouraged and quits breathing. Your uncle in a persistent vegetative state after that motorcycle accident is just as likely to wake up tomorrow as anyone else, because he's not a pussy-ass quitter; he's just sleeping it off and needs more time. A baby born at 22 weeks gestation deserves aggressive intervention. People who die as a result of their diagnosed illness "lost the battle" or "laid down their swords".

We also value democracy to a fault, so we seek out anything that might possibly be construed to support the idea that education and intelligence are meaningless and everyone is equal. A renowned scientist and physician might have worked his ass off to become what he is, but if a regular person can prove him wrong, even in a seemingly trivial way, then maybe his fancy education doesn't actually mean anything after all.

Anyway, I'll stop now, but you get the idea. I am rather curious about what Dr. Dobyns would think of this discussion. I'm sure he's aware of his reputation among parents.

@allthecheese, I hope you and your daughter get many more good days together. I wish for her to be comfortable and know peace. Thank you for sharing your (and her) personal experience with Dr. Dobyns.

 

[Jeep1971]

That’s an interesting point and I think perpetual one-upmanship is a universal trait in all mommy communities online, no matter what the topic.

I stumbled across a Tiktok account a while ago from a woman who’d lost her little girl and put a Wendy house on top of the grave, fully kitted out with lights, soft furnishings and books so she could spend all hours of the day and night there. The account seems to be 50% flexing about what a dutiful loss mama she is, and 50% arguing with people who say what she’s doing isn’t the healthiest outlet for her grief.

Wendy house? I'm not familiar.

It's like a miniature house for children to play in but they also serve as she sheds.
Some get pretty technical and fancy in their designs, too.

Thanks I'm "tardy" some days myself.

Back on topic,any news about the Hollie saga? Have they pulled the plug yet? Poor kid deserves to be at peace.

 

[swiggety_swoogitty]

It wouldn’t let me direct reply, but in response to “I would love to know what actually happened during that office visit and what Dr. Dobyns thinks of it and its aftermath”

I can confirm that someone at Dobyns’ level ha a full time admin assistant who screens mail and email and only alerts him to what he needs to know/see. The Annual Hartley Missive was surely filed under “t” for trash, or perhaps if the admin felt generous, sent down to be filed with their patient records, never to be seen again. Dobyns probably never saw a single letter and has no idea what happened to Claire and Lola after their visit.

 

[Breadbear]

I also think that it's a pretty uniquely American thing to view a poor prognosis as a "challenge" which can be used to prove that an expert is actually a moron just like everyone else.

Nah, I see it here in Euroland too.

Spoiler: long and no1curr

Sometimes it's denial, either on the part of the family or the person, sometimes a way to cope. Sometimes it's a complete lack of understanding, like the one who wound up hemiplegic after a massive stroke X years ago, refuses to work with her physical therapist because it's uncomfortable, but still thinks she'll walk again. Because there's an "undo" button that the doctor has yet to find.
When I have someone who's telling me about all they've suffered (and sometimes what's to come), I've found it best to listen and just say "Wow. That sucks." Because, chances are, lots of people before me have barfed out the same platitudes about strength, patience, resilience and maybe God, but nobody's just said "Yeah, nah, that sucks and of course you feel like shit. How could you not?"

Tl;Dr sometimes things just suck.

 

[Jacinthe]

Back on topic,any news about the Hollie saga? Have they pulled the plug yet? Poor kid deserves to be at peace.

Hollie's got her own thread now. I'm also behind, so I can't actually answer your question, sorry.

 

[swiggety_swoogitty]

I'll PL about Dobyns a bit. I've taken my daughter to see him twice. He's extremely dry and no-bullshit. This creates a huge rift in the parent community. I appreciate it, because, after constantly hearing all the stupid platitudes of "God won't give you more than you can handle" it was refreshing to have someone come right out an say "your kid probably won't live past her 20s." Some people take that incredibly personally and take it as a challenge. I see it all the time in the groups. "The doctor says my kid won't ever walk?" "Don't listen momma, they don't know your baby like you do" "doctors don't know anything" "just keep doing the therapies" The idea being if you do the work, you can overcome anything.
Sometimes the brain is just too messed up, and the kid doesn't walk. It isn't personal.
So they'll even ask, "Should I go see Dobyns?" Literally the BEST guy in the field, and other parents will talk them out of it, because he's "too negative."
I didn't even find him to be an asshole, and I'll agree with the previous poster, some of these guys that are the top in their field are extremely up their own ass. He's just not a warm fuzzy type.

hell, I have to adopt this kind of manner just acting as an adjunct…people don’t want to hear bad news, whether it’s feedback on their essay or a terminal diagnosis for their kid. If you “soften” the message they latch onto the soft part and completely ignore what you’re trying to tell them. You HAVE to deliver information in a completely straightforward way so that there can be no confusion as to what the issue is at hand. If Dobyns had said something like “Claire’s life expectancy based on this diagnosis is x years, but she is such a fighter so she could exceed it!” That would be a serious fucking problem because now you’ve got a family who will be hell-bent on making their kid a “fighter” instead of just making them comfortable. Then you have a lawsuit on your hands because “the doctor told me we could fight this but the treatments made my baby suffer and get sicker!” A narc like Gwen and Robyn will do what they did no matter what any doctor tells them. The straightforward presentation of information protects the doc and gives reasonable people information they can actually use to inform care.