It wouldn’t let me direct reply, but in response to “I would love to know what actually happened during that office visit and what Dr. Dobyns thinks of it and its aftermath”
I can confirm that someone at Dobyns’ level ha a full time admin assistant who screens mail and email and only alerts him to what he needs to know/see. The Annual Hartley Missive was surely filed under “t” for trash, or perhaps if the admin felt generous, sent down to be filed with their patient records, never to be seen again. Dobyns probably never saw a single letter and has no idea what happened to Claire and Lola after their visit.
I could not agree more with this. The Harley Gremlins snd Gwen’s behavior loom large in our collective Kiwi Tard watching experience, but for Dobyns, they were a blip on his radar. I doubt he ever gave them a thought again, because no good assistant would give a very busy doctor and leader in his field time-wasting pissy letters to read, and because he’s likely seen many thousands of kids since.
He also knows his own worth and reputation, and Gwen is not the first nor last mother who is unable to face facts. He’s human, and I’m sure a few kids stay in his memory, but I doubt they were the ones he saw once for 30 minutes with the bitchy mother who refused to hear truth. I’d guess he remembers interesting cases more than the people behind them, unless the case and people were kind, respectful, and impressed him somehow, and he saw them more than once. But he worried/thought about the Hartleys not one bit.
Gwen wasted a lot of time and energy writing these letters every year, and I’d bet a lot the target never saw them. And, sadly, writing them clearly did not relieve her of any burden since she’s still in the same headspace years after her child’s death. She was just being a bitch. She’s actually sad she can’t keep chastising him and bragging how “well” her spud is doing. And that’s sad, distance has given her no new perspective.
@Thomas Eugene Paris and the other kiwi whose name I can’t remember can you answer me this: why Are professional sports players leaving their brains to the CTE research facility When they pass? Is it because their condition can be studied in death and there is a way to prevent CTE (beyond not playing sports).
a friend of mine contributed towards research on the percussion/pressure waves generated during explosions. Her research tied in directly with the doctor who I think now is heading up something with the NFL on redesigning helmets. Her research team got to meet with that doctor (who was played by Alec Baldwin in “concussion” but i think the project died due to lack of funding.
sorry for the tmi. It’s rare I can talk about my interest in this type of stuff life with like-minded folks and professionals. This is why I love coming to the farms: learn, cry, and laugh my ass off.
“
@Thomas Eugene Paris and the other kiwi whose name I can’t remember can you answer me this: why Are professional sports players leaving their brains to the CTE research facility When they pass? Is it because their condition can be studied in death and there is a way to prevent CTE (beyond not playing sports).
Probably to learn more about the repetitive brain damage that is caused by conussions. From what I've read it has its own unique presentaiton rather sure they beleive it was why one of the wrestlers upped and murdered his family once.
Double post but this is likely due to urbanization and the outbreak of communicable diseases. In the Middle Ages, and even in Ancient times, once you got past the age of 15 you were likely set for 'genetic continuation' if you will. Of course all other manner of things will kill you, but there were quite a few people who made it into their 60s. The ones who did, we are descended from. Genetic robustness has a way.
Certain climates can lower life expectancy. Life expectancy was lowered during the Irish Famine, and during the period after the first glaciation. In that point, there really is no benefit to breeding as the resources needed will just be wasted if you are going to die anyways.
TB, diphtheria, polio, smallpox, all these and more just exploded in the 1800s. Sure, they had inoculation but until that point people tended to live next to farms and be exposed to zoonotic diseases that gave them some protection (eg. milkmaids with cowpox and mounted riders with horsepox).
Median ages also fluctuate based on who is dying and who isn't. When times are bad, the vulnerable go first.
Polio is actually a disease that always existed, but improved sanitation led us to discover and identify it. Most people probably had it as babies, and the vast majority of them, if they had any symptoms at all, had a day or two of high fever and gnarly diapers, and the ones who were paralyzed didn't make it.
And here's a video I saw a while back, while people were excavating the abandoned Mount Moriah Cemetery in Pennsylvania. I agree - "Someone loved this little person!"
I’m not so sure all of that was technically even cancer. Before the days of refrigeration, you were taking a gamble by buying meat at the local market, especially in cities where you couldn’t own livestock. It’s why Heinz invented ketchup. The meat tasted so bad it had to be drowned in sauce just to make it palatable. Lots of “stomach issues” were going around. Scary times.
In parts of Europe you can buy raw meat and are expected to eat it the same day. Certain people have greater tolerance to eating raw meat than others. Ultimately food preparation and storage is what matters. Middle Ages didn't have refrigeration aside from using snow but they had cold basements that acted like fridges. Otherwise meat was salted and dried like jerky.
But yes, urbanization would've absolutely fucked that up. You don't know where the meat is coming from, and it's been rotting outside for hours.
It was probably fairly similar, as a lot of the Chinese stomach cancer is considered to be related to excessive consumption of preserved foods, often with pretty questionable preservatives. Before the FDA, food poisoning and toxic adulterants were a common thing.
Polio is actually a disease that always existed, but improved sanitation led us to discover and identify it. Most people probably had it as babies, and the vast majority of them, if they had any symptoms at all, had a day or two of high fever and gnarly diapers, and the ones who were paralyzed didn't make it.
And here's a video I saw a while back, while people were excavating the abandoned Mount Moriah Cemetery in Pennsylvania. I agree - "Someone loved this little person!"
iirc paralytic polio was the one that changed the game. Because it was the strain that put you in iron lungs or whatnot. But yes, it's an ancient disease.
Had a 20yo come in who had some kind of serious developmental disorder. Non-verbal, bed/chair bound, parenteral feeds, seizure disorder. Can't even remember what he came in for, but he had managed to stay out of hospital for a number of years, which was great. But this was the first time he had an admission under an adult Medical team and it's often quite a jarring difference for parents and patients alike to make that switch.
Anyway the kid was really well cared for but had one of Those Mothers. Borderline aggressive in advocating for her kid, makes kid her whole world, etc.
Now it's a policy in adult land that every patient must have a resuscitation order documented on admission. Even if it's a young healthy person getting their appendix out, you just have to fill in the form to say "yes for everything".
So I go talk to Mum to basically say "yeah so we all agree not to jump on your kid's chest if his heart stops, right?". I framed this by saying so our focus should always be on his quality of life, and I specifically said "he has a life-limiting condition" (ie. he is never going to live into old age).
Mum looks horrified, like this is new and incorrect information. Puts in a complaint, doesn't want me near her kid (lol no problem), says it was horrific that I said all this in front of the kid (he had pretty limited awareness at best).
I happen to mention this later to someone who cared for the kid under the Paeds service, I ask why nobody had ever brought this up with Mum in the last 20 years. They said repeatedly they had tried to discuss with her over many years but she wouldn't have it. Refused to listen or engage.
Probably made her dig in her heels even harder like Gwen.
I can't even imagine how upset everyone else is that she set up such a thing in the middle of a cemetery. What an incredibly disrespectful thing to do.
Paisley’s mother has been suspiciously quiet for the last few days. Can we dare to dream that Paisley may have been released from her cruel existence?
Or maybe hee mother is just busy making ads to sell hair ties and some weird vitamin powder.
@Thomas Eugene Paris and the other kiwi whose name I can’t remember can you answer me this: why Are professional sports players leaving their brains to the CTE research facility When they pass? Is it because their condition can be studied in death and there is a way to prevent CTE (beyond not playing sports).
a friend of mine contributed towards research on the percussion/pressure waves generated during explosions. Her research tied in directly with the doctor who I think now is heading up something with the NFL on redesigning helmets. Her research team got to meet with that doctor (who was played by Alec Baldwin in “concussion” but i think the project died due to lack of funding.
sorry for the tmi. It’s rare I can talk about my interest in this type of stuff life with like-minded folks and professionals. This is why I love coming to the farms: learn, cry, and laugh my ass off.
“
Yeah, CTE is something that can be learned about post-mortem. In that case, the brain starts out morphologically normal, so after death, the pattern of changes can be examined and compared to controls. There are some other neurological disorders that might be studied from brain and spinal cord tissue donation, as well. I mentioned Gift from a Child, which helps parents coordinate the donation of their child's brain, spinal cord, and tumor tissue at death, and and there are similar programs for adults. There are brain donation programs in place for people with Parkinson disease, Alzheimer and other types of dementia, and ALS, among others.
I think the key difference is that with CTE, as with dementia, Parkinson disease, or even ALS, there's a bigger cohort of affected people than there are people with multicystic encephalomalacia or asparagine synthetase deficiency. Studying dementia, for example, can tell us about how the human brain changes with age in general, not just in Alzheimer patients. That's millions of people who could benefit from a handful of scientists examining one brain. Something like asparagine synthetase deficiency, on the other hand, has only been diagnosed in <20 people. With the advent of precision medicine, we can study how the genetic mutation affects development without necessarily having to dissect complete organs. For example, scientists can take a tiny portion of tissue, crush it up into powder, make a solution, and use mass spectrometry to examine proteins or metabolites in affected people versus normal controls. This has to be done pretty much immediately after death, because changes in cellular activity happen instantaneously.
Also, not to sound like a cynic, but there's a lot of money being thrown at CTE, which is not happening with other disorders. There's just not the budget to pay scientists to study the brains of people with extremely rare disorders. There's probably not actually a budget to even store the tissue.
I looked into the specifics of some of the body donation programs (or "anatomical gift programs" if you're feeling fancy) and thought people might be interested in learning about the requirements for donation.
We need to make sure that your body can be used effectively and safely to educate our students. Therefore, when your loved one calls our program we will be asking the following questions:
Did you have a communicable disease?
Were you obese, emaciated or malformed?
Was an autopsy performed?
Were organs (other than the corneas) removed for transplant?
Did you have an open wound just prior to death?
Were you over the age of 18?
Is your body located within 60 miles of NYC?
Acceptance of an anatomical gift is contingent upon the decision of Harvard Medical School at the time of death of the donor. Autopsy, embalming, emaciation, obesity, advanced decomposition and history of contagious disease (Hepatitis, Tuberculosis, HIV/AIDS, etc.) are among the major reasons we cannot accept a donor. Harvard Medical School reserves the right, at any time, to decline a particular donor. Although most anatomical donations are accepted, donors and their families should plan alternative arrangements in the event that a donation must be declined.
Mayo Clinic's anatomical bequest program does not typically accept bodies donated for specific disease research. However, allowances are made to accommodate the requests of a Mayo Clinic primary physician or specialist.
Mayo Clinic might not accept a bequest if:
The potential donor has an infectious or a contagious disease (such as HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B or hepatitis C, or prion diseases)
The next of kin objects to the donation of the body
The body is not acceptable for anatomical study (extremely emaciated or extremely obese)
The body has been autopsied or mutilated or is decomposed
Donations are not needed at the time
Mayo Clinic encourages all potential donors to have an alternate plan in case the donation isn't accepted
.
Medical conditions including emaciation or obesity, extensive burns,
mutilation, advanced decomposition or a history of contagious diseases (hepatitis viruses, HIV/AIDS, Creutzfeldt-Jakob, tuberculosis, active MRSA, or COVID-19 infection, VRE, etc.) would make a donated body unusable. Cause of death may also be a factor. To help avoid any surprise or disappointment, family members
should be advised that acceptance of a candidate donor is not determined until the time of death and review of medical records.
UCLA only accepts donations of the entire body. With the exception of the removal of corneas for eye transplant, removal of other organs or tissue at the time of death renders the body unsuitable for anatomical study and acceptance would be on a case by case basis.
There is no upper age limit for the Donated Body Program. UCLA accepts donors who reside within the six Southern California counties of Los Angeles, Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside, San Diego and Ventura.
While the Anatomy Bequest Program reserves the right to decline whole body donation, the following circumstances are the most common reasons for the decline:
The individual has a disease such as HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, hepatitis C, tuberculosis, or a Prion disease
The individual has Coronavirus (COVID-19) within 30 days of death
The individual has pneumonia (other than aspiration pneumonia), bronchitis, influenza, Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS), sepsis, or septic shock at the time of death
The individual weighs more than 250 pounds at the time of death
There is significant family discord at the time of death or immediately thereafter
The condition or pathology of the remains precludes adequate and/or safe preparation, storage, or study
Btw if anyone is wondering why an emaciated person is declined (not just fatties), it's because when you do dissection you are relying on different 'planes' of tissue to be found so you can locate what you are looking for. The fat pads things out, especially visceral fat around organs.
When you do things like CT scans on emaciated patients they're so hard to read because you kind of lose the normal anatomical landmarks and ability to differentiate between organs. It all just looks like a glob of organs together.
Is this in the US? Because there's no way that shit would be allowed anywhere in Bongland. Here you don't buy or own the land that a grave is on - you just buy an "Exclusive Right of Burial" in that small section for a limited number of interments for a limited amount of time (usually about 75 years) & you can't erect anything on it but an approved headstone/memorial.
Body donation needs to be set up prior to death. You can't just decide to ship Grandma off to an anatomy lab because cremation's too expensive.
You might need to look into what the body will be used for, exactly. Saying "for science" isn't very precise - the military likes having human bodies for weapons testing, and crash test cadavers exist, for example. Yes, it is important, how else do you know if your body armor is effective? Or the newest safety feature in your car? But that may or may not be what you or your family wants.
And, as previously mentioned, there are a lot of reasons to be refused. Don't count on your donation to pay for your funeral.
Body donation needs to be set up prior to death. You can't just decide to ship Grandma off to an anatomy lab because cremation's too expensive.
You might need to look into what the body will be used for, exactly. Saying "for science" isn't very precise - the military likes having human bodies for weapons testing, and crash test cadavers exist, for example. Yes, it is important, how else do you know if your body armor is effective? Or the newest safety feature in your car? But that may or may not be what you or your family wants.
And, as previously mentioned, there are a lot of reasons to be refused. Don't count on your donation to pay for your funeral.
There was that story of the woman with the rare brain disorder that ended up being used for weapons testing instead of neurology study because the company that handled the bodies was shady.
You can do charity cremation in the US. You just don't claim the body and it's done in a mass burning. But if you want ashes back you get mass burned ashes. Of course you could look at that as a positive because you may have some ashes of a poor soul no one cared about in there. At least they aren't alone anymore. Of course you could also have the ashes of a pedo or a murderer. That's what I wouldn't want. It's like something out of a horror movie.
Paisley’s mother has been suspiciously quiet for the last few days. Can we dare to dream that Paisley may have been released from her cruel existence?
Or maybe hee mother is just busy making ads to sell hair ties and some weird vitamin powder.
I think if Paisley was finally released from the hell that is her body we'd hear about it. After all, the grift would be over but it might be just enough for some grief grifting before she's forgotten about.
There was that story of the woman with the rare brain disorder that ended up being used for weapons testing instead of neurology study because the company that handled the bodies was shady.
They could probably get body donations explicitly for weapons testing, with a little bit of rebranding. Just borrow that tweet about wanting to have your remains spread over Disneyland but not to be cremated. There's a demographic out there.
I work in neuroMRI research and CTE isn't on our radar. Granted I am more interested in MRI in the setting of oncology and do some side work MRIing the anatomic models but, I digress.
Edited because my spell check is like dragon dictation
I have personally heard of a pathology lab receiving a misdelivered brain specimen from a patient with CJD. Specimen was supposed to go to a state Department of Health and somehow ended up in the lab of a podunk little hospital, which didn't even have pathology services. The clinical lab staff didn't know what to do with it and were intrigued, so they OPENED THE CONTAINER. Someone finally had the sense to read the fucking submission paperwork and realized it was a possible CJD specimen and not for them. That was around the time that they discovered they didn't have anything on hand that would disinfect prions*. Someone had to drive 3+ hours with a bunch of formic acid to help them decontaminate, and the entire incident was immediately hushed up. I never heard how the specimen not only got routed to the wrong place, but somehow ended up at a hospital without a pathology department, but the whole thing sounded like a goddamn clusterfuck.
*Prions are extremely resistant to conventional sterilization methods, including alcohol, ammonia, hydrogen peroxide, UV light, microwave, and heat, and are transmissible after formalin fixation. They can even survive autoclaving.
