Better Call Saul

[Internet War Criminal]

I love the idea of you watching Gene play keepaway with a Cinnabon and getting as pants-shittingly angry as old women were at Daenarys being a murderer

Imagine being such a sped that because I think the last four episodes of a tv show that's otherwise brilliant are shit, you fucking freak out every time you quote me because you can't stand I'm not riding the show's dick as hard as you.

Keep guzzling that vince gilligan cum, faggot.

Now, onto the finale:

That's how you end your show. The fact is, it was perfection. You didn't need El Camino. You didn't need Better Call Saul. At the very least, you didn't need Walter to appear on El Camino or BCS.

Everything is wrapped up perfectly, every loose thread is tied, the scene with Gretchen & Elliott is perfect, so is the last cameo from Badger & Skinny Pete, the last conversation between Walt & Skylar, his admission that he did it all for himself because he liked it (which is blatantly not true, he was doing it all for his family, until he started to do it for himself). Then we end with the last scene where he deals with the men who killed Hank & Gomez, stole his money, and enslaved the son he wish he had. Jesse gets to kill Todd and leave with a cathartic scream. Lydia gets killed. All the bikers are dead. That final last look and nod between him & Jesse, and the understanding. His family is finally safe, they will have $10m to help them through everything, and Walt gets to die in a lab, where he felt maybe the most alive.

As a side note: Walt possibly even planned on getting out of it alive, but ultimately decides to sacrifice his life so he can save Jesse by jumping on him before he starts the car, and as a result getting shot (if he had just lied down on the ground he would have easily survived as a result. He also clearly never planned on putting Jesse in danger, as he only brings him up as a last resort because he's separated from his keys. Or, at the very least, decided that if he was gonna die, it would be at Jesse's hand because of everything he did to him.

What a fucking show. What a fucking finale.

 

[AnOminous]

Everything is wrapped up perfectly, every loose thread is tied, the scene with Gretchen & Elliott is perfect, so is the last cameo from Badger & Skinny Pete, the last conversation between Walt & Skylar, his admission that he did it all for himself because he liked it (which is blatantly not true, he was doing it all for his family, until he started to do it for himself).

He said that because she needed to hear it. It was the only kindness he had left to give her.

Or, at the very least, decided that if he was gonna die, it would be at Jesse's hand because of everything he did to him.

Similarly, he gave Jesse what he needed. An actual choice about his own life. I think he was proud Jesse basically told him to go fuck himself.

What a fucking show. What a fucking finale.

It's really rare for a show never to fuck up beyond belief during its run and then avoid a shitty ending, but BB did it.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

He said that because she needed to hear it. It was the only kindness he had left to give her.

I mean he also lied knowing he was being taped by the DEA, basically saying that Skylar had no part in what he did, and whatever little part she did, she was fearing for her life. He also gave her the lotto ticket that would give the coordinates of Hank and Gomez's body so she would be able to use that to strike a deal with the DEA, almost guaranteeing that she'll have no real consequences legally when really she should have been arrested and spend decades in prison for knowingly laundering his drug money. He knows how it's gonna make him look like, much worse than he really was, but he does it for his family. He also left that $10 million for them to rebuild their lives afterwards, on top of killing every single person left alive who could be a threat to his family. That's why he murders Lydia alongside the bikers.

At the end of the day, he did do it for his family (while also doing it for himself, and really enjoying it).

Similarly, he gave Jesse what he needed. An actual choice about his own life. I think he was proud Jesse basically told him to go fuck himself.

Yep. That last look between them reflects that. Him being proud of Jesse, and an almost paternal love for him, and Jesse's respect back for finally being frank with him, giving him said choice, and just not bullshitting one way or another.

It's really rare for a show never to fuck up beyond belief during its run and then avoid a shitty ending, but BB did it.

Yup. I can't think of a single bad episode of Breaking Bad except for The Fly, and while there are a few moments here and there in the last season that I felt went longer than they had to, it was just fantastic overall.

The third season is almost perfect.

 

[The Great Chandler]

I think a big reason is very simple:

Vince Gilligan knew when to end it, let alone have an ending in mind.

One of the problems with a lot of shows, even ones written by competent writers, is that either they don't have an ending in mind, it goes woke, creators become a retard (can overlap with the former), executive meddling, trying to prolong the show for ratings, trying to end the show sooner than it flows. You name it! It helps that each episode are worth each watch, but that's kinda a given since there's more expectations for serial driven shows than episodic ones.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Imagine being such a sped that because I think the last four episodes of a tv show that's otherwise brilliant are shit, you fucking freak out every time you quote me because you can't stand I'm not riding the show's dick as hard as you.

Keep guzzling that vince gilligan cum, faggot.

Imagine being so redditbrained you think vince gilligan is responsible for jeff not being le epic marvel villain where saul builds a robot to fight him

See my criticisms are consistent and you can read them back but my problem is the series pacing out the season too long and rushing character turns too quickly when they happen. Ive been very consistent in criticizing the final season. However my criticism is actually good lol. You guys like barely understand the characters sometimes

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Imagine being so redditbrained you think vince gilligan is responsible for jeff not being le epic marvel villain where saul builds a robot to fight him

What are you even talking about, I never complained about Jeff and shit, I was one of the few who was perfectly fine with the actor switch and I thought both he and his mother did a good job for what they were supposed to do, my complaints were 100% that Saul was acting out of character/it didn't make sense for the show to be happening so soon after Breaking Bad/the show should have ended on episode s06e09.

I don't know what is smaller, your dick or your brain. Not to mention that I've moved on from discussing BCS to discussing BB like two fucking weeks ago and you keep dragging that shit up like it's relevant.

How about instead of trying to ride my dick so you can feel something, you actually try to contribute to this thread? Cause all you've been doing lately is walking around with shit dribbling out of your outstreched prolapsed anus while the rest of us are trying to actually talk about the show. Or better yet, shut the fuck up.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I mean he also lied knowing he was being taped by the DEA, basically saying that Skylar had no part in what he did, and whatever little part she did, she was fearing for her life.

People forget that part of Walt's motivation in his rampage is indeed to put an end to anyone who would ever bother his family. He knows that if he gives his family the money from Gretchen and Elliott that there could be some minor infinitesimal chance that Jack or Lydia know about it. Or that if someone is still making blue meth that Skyler will still be watched by the DEA. So not only does Walt have to wipe out his last remaining cartel associates. He needs to do it publicly AND die in public leaving no doubt that Heisenberg is dead.

If Walt rampages everyone then goes into hiding they will probably never leave Skyler alone. Thinking that she knew about the massacre and knew Walt was hiding somewhere. With Walt and everyone dead and Hank and Gomez having their bodies discovered it would basically end the investigation.

I think a big reason is very simple:

Vince Gilligan knew when to end it, let alone have an ending in mind.

We know that they made more episodes of BCS simply to make it have the same number of episodes as Breaking Bad. When really BCS could have been cut down by a season or two. Or honestly just ended with Chuck's death and then an epilogue. The fact that they stretched it out. Then stretched out the Gene episodes just destroyed the pacing. Last season was nonstop filler at anime levels.

Imagine being so redditbrained you think vince gilligan is responsible for jeff not being le epic marvel villain where saul builds a robot to fight him

The way you argue is pathetic. You never address the points anyone makes. You just invent a hyper retarded strawman, projecting your own juvenile and mindless behavior on a fictitious person, and ignore the adult level discussions that people are trying to have. You are the typical babbling internet persona autistic dweeb that would never hold an interpersonal conversation with people in real life because no one would give you the time of day. But over the internet you can endlessly babble.

See my criticisms are consistent and you can read them back but my problem is the series pacing out the season too long and rushing character turns too quickly when they happen. Ive been very consistent in criticizing the final season. However my criticism is actually good lol. You guys like barely understand the characters sometimes

Notice you offer nothing specific. No examples from the show. No quotes or specific moments. No analysis. Just "I am smart you are dumb". You argue like a kindergartner. A child. "I understand the show you do not". Yet there is no proof you understand anything beyond a third grade education.

BCS had a mediocre last season. A mediocre ending. Everyone has given their specific points in this thread on why that is so. So far no rebuttals have been made beyond name calling like a total spastic dork.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

People forget that part of Walt's motivation in his rampage is indeed to put an end to anyone who would ever bother his family. He knows that if he gives his family the money from Gretchen and Elliott that there could be some minor infinitesimal chance that Jack or Lydia know about it. Or that if someone is still making blue meth that Skyler will still be watched by the DEA. So not only does Walt have to wipe out his last remaining cartel associates. He needs to do it publicly AND die in public leaving no doubt that Heisenberg is dead.

If Walt rampages everyone then goes into hiding they will probably never leave Skyler alone. Thinking that she knew about the massacre and knew Walt was hiding somewhere. With Walt and everyone dead and Hank and Gomez having their bodies discovered it would basically end the investigation.

Also, I don't think that Walt ever planned on going into hiding. I think it's clear that at this point, he was going to turn himself over to the DEA in an attempt to shield his family from the consequences of his action. If they weren't going to take his money, the least he could do was lie and say he did it all alone, try and find a way to get his family out of it. That's why, after he spoke to his son who told him to go fuck himself and that they didn't want their money, he calls to turn himself over. I assume that when going to the DEA, he would have immediately given up Lydia, Jack, etc.. as a bid to keep his family safe.

It's only because he sees Gretchen and Elliott on TV that he realizes that 1) there's another way to get money to his family 2) fuck them for denying his part in Grey Matter and 3) his Blue Meth is still being sold and people think he's still cooking. I think then he turned his plan to 'Fuck it, I'm gonna make sure that my family is gonna get the money they need, and I'm gonna kill anyone who could get in the way. I might as well see them one last time before I end up behind bars'.

I think that's why he says to Skylar that the cops are going to 'come to him' that night. I genuinely think that he planned on surviving, giving Jesse the choice to either kill him or not, and then surrender to the cops if he was still alive at the end. All of this was basically closure for his family (which includes Jesse). When he realizes that Jesse is cooking again, he's probably sure already that he's not doing it willingly, and since it's being distributed by Jack, that's where he probably is, etc..

So, ultimately, Walter's last stand was also all about doing what's right for his family, in the end.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

People forget that part of Walt's motivation in his rampage is indeed to put an end to anyone who would ever bother his family. He knows that if he gives his family the money from Gretchen and Elliott that there could be some minor infinitesimal chance that Jack or Lydia know about it. Or that if someone is still making blue meth that Skyler will still be watched by the DEA. So not only does Walt have to wipe out his last remaining cartel associates. He needs to do it publicly AND die in public leaving no doubt that Heisenberg is dead.

If Walt rampages everyone then goes into hiding they will probably never leave Skyler alone. Thinking that she knew about the massacre and knew Walt was hiding somewhere. With Walt and everyone dead and Hank and Gomez having their bodies discovered it would basically end the investigation.

We know that they made more episodes of BCS simply to make it have the same number of episodes as Breaking Bad. When really BCS could have been cut down by a season or two. Or honestly just ended with Chuck's death and then an epilogue. The fact that they stretched it out. Then stretched out the Gene episodes just destroyed the pacing. Last season was nonstop filler at anime levels.

The way you argue is pathetic. You never address the points anyone makes. You just invent a hyper retarded strawman, projecting your own juvenile and mindless behavior on a fictitious person, and ignore the adult level discussions that people are trying to have. You are the typical babbling internet persona autistic dweeb that would never hold an interpersonal conversation with people in real life because no one would give you the time of day. But over the internet you can endlessly babble.

Notice you offer nothing specific. No examples from the show. No quotes or specific moments. No analysis. Just "I am smart you are dumb". You argue like a kindergartner. A child. "I understand the show you do not". Yet there is no proof you understand anything beyond a third grade education.

BCS had a mediocre last season. A mediocre ending. Everyone has given their specific points in this thread on why that is so. So far no rebuttals have been made beyond name calling like a total spastic dork.

And you never address any argument that debunks your own beyond giving it downdoots like a sperg. Your entire point on why you didnt like the ending was you didnt understand the concept that a guy could be miserable on the outside of prison and want to redeem himself. You legit didnt see how prison was a better place for him, and I debunked your points and dunked on you for being a low IQ retard like 400 times for not getting the entire point that if he took the deal he'd just start reoffending and would be bored and unloved in a golf course prison. As well as in the outside constantly being at risk of a beating or worse. Then you insisted if Jimmy wrote a book no one would want to kill him, which is the most retarded argument ever. Which I repeatedly dunked on and you couldn't think of a way to refute my counterpoints that people admire criminals who do the time like Larry Lawton. They dont respect people who get children poisoned

 

[Internet War Criminal]

So, rewatching El Camino and... it's not bad. It's not terrible. It's good, really. The bigger problem, here, is that it just doesn't add anything to the Breaking Bad conclusion that we needed to know. There's no... growth for Jesse. There's no resolution of his character. In a sense, the character who steals the spotlight as far as character growth is ironically Walter. That last 10 minutes before Jesse leaves for Alaska, you get that tender moment of a dying Walter trying to push Jesse to go to college, and that he believes in him and he could do so much more than what he does, he could be better. It's nice to see how much he cared for Jesse, even early on (that flashback happens when they are cooking in the desert and then get stuck because of an empty battery.

It's pure fan service, and in a sense it's almost fan fiction. Like 'Oh man, what happened to Jesse after he left?!'. The answer is so thin that over half of the movie is just flashbacks.

It's not terrible, not at all, and in a vacuum it's really good, like 8,5, almost 9/10. It's just... pointless in the grand scheme of things. It's basically Breaking Bad's The Force Awakens

 

[Raiken]

As a side note: Walt possibly even planned on getting out of it alive, but ultimately decides to sacrifice his life so he can save Jesse by jumping on him before he starts the car, and as a result getting shot (if he had just lied down on the ground he would have easily survived as a result. He also clearly never planned on putting Jesse in danger, as he only brings him up as a last resort because he's separated from his keys. Or, at the very least, decided that if he was gonna die, it would be at Jesse's hand.

I always saw it that he wanted Jessy to be in the room to kill him to for bestraying him, because he thought he worked with the extremist, and only changed his mind when he saw he is actualy enslaved by them.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I don't think you are reading the scene right at all. First off, he already gave him over to Jack to be killed in a moment of anger, when he blames him for Hank getting killed, losing all of his money, and ratting him out to the DEA. He felt (and was) in the clear thanks to the Hank tape, and Jesse fucked it all up. Knowing Jack & all there's no way he didn't figure out that Jesse was forced to cook meth, especially considering how often Jesse said he was done with cooking meth, how many more people are gonna die, that he wanted to leave it all behind, etc..

When he's in the room with them, he finds himself separated from his wallet and keys. There's a shot that clearly shows him eyeing them and wanting to get them, but before he can even talk, already Jack is like 'Ok Walt, time to die' so he panics and tries to get for the keys but they start to drag him out and THEN as a last resort, he plays the Jesse card. He's shocked by how Jesse looks, because it's even worse than what he imagined, I mean living in a hole in the ground getting tortured and shit isn't exactly what anyone would expect either.

I think the show makes it clear, or at least tries to make it clear, that he didn't want Jesse in the room at all, it's only that he didn't have a choice because he was gonna get killed and didn't have his keys on him to start the shooting.

I assume his plan was to start coughing and get on his knees, and from there start the shooting.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Knowing Jack & all there's no way he didn't figure out that Jesse was forced to cook meth, especially considering how often Jesse said he was done with cooking meth, how many more people are gonna die, that he wanted to leave it all behind, etc.

Walt assumes either Jesse is enslaved and cooking meth for the Nazis. Or that they tortured the formula out of him and have a new cook making blue meth and Jesse is already dead. He basically surmises that Jesse gave up the formula when he and Badger and Skinny Pete are talking about who is making the new batches of blue meth. And Badger and Skinny Pete assume it is Walt. But when Walt says it is not him they all know it is likely Jesse because only Jesse knew the formula.

So Walt goes to the Nazi compound to kill everyone. Jesse possibly included. But cannot do it when he sees the condition Jesse is in. Old Yeller.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Walt assumes either Jesse is enslaved and cooking meth for the Nazis. Or that they tortured the formula out of him and have a new cook making blue meth and Jesse is already dead. He basically surmises that Jesse gave up the formula when he and Badger and Skinny Pete are talking about who is making the new batches of blue meth. And Badger and Skinny Pete assume it is Walt. But when Walt says it is not him they all know it is likely Jesse because only Jesse knew the formula.

So Walt goes to the Nazi compound to kill everyone. Jesse possibly included. But cannot do it when he sees the condition Jesse is in. Old Yeller.

Walt is in full on repentance mode, to right every wrong as much as they can be. Hearing on TV that the Blue Meth is still out there, and from Skinny Pete and Badger that Jesse might still be alive, there's no way to read that Walt wanted to kill him alongside Jack & the Nazis.

How do we know? You don't go from 'I'm gonna go and murder that meth cooking rat bastard who cost me everything' to 'Oh they mistreated you for six months? Please take my gun and shoot me in the head' like that. If he was still angry enough at him to kill him when he got there, maybe he lets him live when he sees what he went through, but no way he goes all the way from 'I'm gonna kill that motherfucker' to 'I deserve to die at your hand for what I did to you' like that. I don't see any way to read the scene like that.

From the moment he shows up at Gretchen & Elliott's house, he says it himself, it's about making things right. That's what he does with them and how much they fucked him over, they make sure his family will get money, that his wife will get off, that his family is going to be protected from those that could be a threat, makes sure Hank & Gomez will get a proper funeral, and the one missing piece here, in a way the most important, is Jesse. To right the wrongs with Jesse, it's not about killing him, it's about being selfless, truthful, and letting Jesse decide for himself for once.

No way he was ever going to kill him.

Even when he gave him to Jack, it's only because he literally just saw Hank die in front of him, was robbed of everything he worked for, and blamed Jesse for being a rat and betraying him after he was telling anyone 'No way we're killing Jesse' and protecting him.

 

[God of Nothing]

After rewatching both BCS and BB to partly through their final seasons, I can safely say that Walter, Skyler, Chuck, and Hector are prime midwit material. I say that because they all pass themselves off and act like they're intelligent people who know more than they really do. When it comes to their competency in general, they're actually abysmal. Walter outright just runs out of luck. No more coincidences, lucky calls from Hank, or people dumb enough to buy his bullshit by the end. Skyler is just your average housewife who once worked a somewhat prestigious job and thinks she can protect her children from her drug dealer husband while she still lives with the fucker. Chuck knew the law and only the law. He could not put aside his ego to actually work with and better people, much less his own family. What can I say about Hector that isn't obvious? I doubt he would've ended up any different if Ignacio didn't swap the pills, to be honest. They were all intentionally written that way though, which I absolutely love. Makes the actual intelligent people a lot more distinct and noticeable.

 

[Su-27 Flanker-B]

So watching BCS now, and... did anyone think that after the desert deal in season 5 it felt like a slog? Feels very repetetive in last few episodes.

 

[The Great Chandler]

So, rewatching El Camino and... it's not bad. It's not terrible. It's good, really. The bigger problem, here, is that it just doesn't add anything to the Breaking Bad conclusion that we needed to know. There's no... growth for Jesse. There's no resolution of his character. In a sense, the character who steals the spotlight as far as character growth is ironically Walter. That last 10 minutes before Jesse leaves for Alaska, you get that tender moment of a dying Walter trying to push Jesse to go to college, and that he believes in him and he could do so much more than what he does, he could be better. It's nice to see how much he cared for Jesse, even early on (that flashback happens when they are cooking in the desert and then get stuck because of an empty battery.

It's pure fan service, and in a sense it's almost fan fiction. Like 'Oh man, what happened to Jesse after he left?!'. The answer is so thin that over half of the movie is just flashbacks.

It's not terrible, not at all, and in a vacuum it's really good, like 8,5, almost 9/10. It's just... pointless in the grand scheme of things. It's basically Breaking Bad's The Force Awakens

Some had an idea that would've seemed to me El Camino work, but that would mean involving Hank.

Fans deride Hank for being too dumb for not bringing in backup. Say he does confront Walt, but with backup, get engaged in a shootout with the neonazis, and ended up shot and in a coma. Then Hank wakes up some couple years or something were he learns that Walt has died, but there was one person left on the run, one other person who was associated with Walt. El Camino would be about Hank pursuing Jesse like a tiger, but the two eventually learn that both of them are just victims of Heisenburg.

A lil far-fetched, but just a thought.

 

[Ishtar]

As I understand it, Hank knew his career was over(or at least he felt like it was).

He didn’t tell anyone in the DEA except Gomez. He even told Huell not to talk to the guard outside his door(the ostensible reason was not to distract him, but the real reason being if the DEA knew he was running his own investigation they would have immediately shut it down).

Remember Hank is operating on his own, his boss doesn’t know what’s going on, the APD doesn’t know what’s going on, it’s just him and Gomez. And then roping Jesse into both confessing and trying to entrap Walter into a confession.

The fact is-all the evidence was circumstantial and by the time of Jesse’s confession tape, most people involved were already dead-Mike, Gus, the Salamanca’s, etc…

So Hank needed to actually bring Walt in, with the money and Jesse’s confession tape. Face the music for his brother in law being Heisenberg and then arrest Lydia, and Todd and Saul.

TLDR: Hank was operating independently trying to build a case on hearsay and a single accomplice/co conspirator turned witness. Even Skylar was not cooperative.

He absolutely had to bring Walt in, with the tape, get Jesse into protective custody, and then find the money and arrest anyone else. If everything went Hank’s way, the humiliation would be mollified by actual evidence and a confession, and either he could have gone after the money and everyone else or the DEA could have finished the job.

So what does all that mean? Hank couldn’t bring backup because his own agency had no idea what he was doing. Maybe if he has gone to his boss and asked for help in seeing it through, but then that would be an admission of failure and there is no guarantee the DEA higher ups wouldn’t have said “wait…firstly you have broken a lot of protocols here, secondly you’re career is done for you know not finding out about this sooner, and thirdly, it’s off, you don’t have any evidence”. His boss from what I recall liked Hank but he was a by the book guy-and would not have allowed Hank to complete his solo investigation.

Walt slips away as Hank is humiliated and likely dismissed or pushed to retire. Maybe the DEA would still look into it, but Walt would never be seeing the inside of a prison.

 

[TheHarbinger]

As I understand it, Hank knew his career was over(or at least he felt like it was).

So? He was not operating like that was the case. He was operating like his life was over. Suicidal levels of police work. And Gomez had no connection to Walt. Did he have to act like a total retard as well? And throw his life away chasing the most dangerous person in the cartel game? Did Hank not want to contact Marie? Would Marie not immediately call for backup for Hank knowing how insane Walt was? No one arrests a high ranking fugitive without an army of backup in real life. Someone like Walt in real life would almost assuredly be handled by something like Delta Force or an FBI Swat unit.

Hank went into the desert alone because it was part of the plot. End of story. So that the main characters can have a shootout. With one team winning. And no civilians know about it. That exact same scenario is used in every other crime drama or western and so on. Two sides meeting in the middle of nowhere, having a shootout, no witnesses. They used it in both BCS and El Camino and multiple times in Breaking Bad.

Hank was just a poor DEA agent. Or poorly written. He knew Walt killed all of those prisoners. And blew up Fring. And knew, in his own mind, that Walt set him up to die by Tuco or by the Twins. Hank was a moron who wanted the glory of the arrest and died like a loser. If Walt is capable of blowing up a cartel head then you need backup.

He didn’t tell anyone in the DEA except Gomez. He even told Huell not to talk to the guard outside his door(the ostensible reason was not to distract him, but the real reason being if the DEA knew he was running his own investigation they would have immediately shut it down).

And Gomez also told no one else. Neither did Jesse. Three nimrods. Going into the desert alone against the most dangerous person they have ever faced. The same desert where Jesse had seen Walt set traps for Krazy 8 and Emilio with mere minutes to improvise. Now Walt is a year deep into the cartel game and ferocious and wild.

Ever watch The Sopranos? Tony is arrested on an illegal firearm charge and they send like 50 officers and Tony wonders why the FBI is not with them as well. For a guy who runs a garbage company in the suburbs. When Johnny Sac is arrested the FBI sends an entire regiment. But the DEA for Walt sends two guys and like total retards bring their most valuable CI.

Why was Jesse there? Why not have him in protective custody? Just because the plot demands Jesse get captured by the Nazi. Nothing more.

 

[Raging Capybara]

I never followed the Emmy in my life, actually I didn't even know it would happen yesterday, but I'm really happy BCS lost everything.

Fuck you, Vince Gilligan