War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Not that the discussion isn't interesting, but several recent posts deserve a "Sir, this is a Ukraine megathread."

The latest is that Ukraine is wasting no time in pressing their gains:
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Pro Russian shills, much like they army they root for, now running away like little bitches.
It makes me wonder. Where are the retards that would non stop bash Vince McMahon for not joining the UAF? I sure hope they are on telegram screaming at their phones at the hundreds of thousands of Russian men fleeing Conscription.
I was thinking the exact same thing. This entire situation is incredibly ironic.

You have shills calling people who just support civilian aid for Ukraine chickenhawks who should be sent to the frontlines for it, but you don't hear a single peep from them when Russians are fleeing en masse to avoid fighting in a war that they started. Worse still, you have them shitting on people who did the exact same thing, and yet when Russians, the invading force, do it, it's either radio silence, or excuse upon excuse.

Look, I'm not gonna pretend that all Russians fleeing their country are responsible for this shitshow, don't know what's actually going to happen to them if they get conscripted, that they deserve it for just being Russian, or that they even remotely support the war to begin with, but let's just be honest here:

It is pretty goddamn funny that for all their bluster, the moment they're called upon to fight for their big, strong, "based" Mother Country they all scatter like cockroaches to the "decadent West" that they were just vehemently bitching about.
 
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@LORD IMPERATOR
On the nuclear stuff, I'll never say never, but I think the odds are exceedingly low.

Putin knows that if he uses any form of nuclear weapon that it will attract a kinetic response from NATO and the US, than they cannot afford to allow such action as they would lose credibility globally.

He will also knows, or should know, that there are people whose entire job is to put together options for strike packages against Russia for these exact scenarios. I would expect this to hasten his end.

I could be wrong, but even Putin doesn't want a nuclear exchange, yet he would be escalating on uncharted territory.
So I suppose he's only using nuclear threats as a hollow way to scare the West. Then it's a bluff that would just backfire on him, because the West isn't stopping the aid to Ukraine anytime soon.

Not that the discussion isn't interesting, but several recent posts deserve a "Sir, this is a Ukraine megathread."

The latest is that Ukraine is wasting no time in pressing their gains:
View attachment 3706609
I suppose Putin annexed those border territories so that he can claim Ukraine is invading Russia when Ukraine inevitably reaches those eastern regions and retakes them. Then maybe he can bitch to the UN about Ukraine being the aggressor.

Except, since he started this war, no one will believe him.

I was thinking the exact same thing. This entire situation is incredibly ironic.

You have shills calling people who just support civilian aid for Ukraine chickenhawks who should be sent to the frontlines for it, but you don't hear a single peep from them when Russians are fleeing en masse to avoid fighting in a war that they started. Worse still, you have them shitting on people who did the exact same thing, and yet when Russians, the invading force, does it, it's either radio silence, or excuse upon excuse.
Of course they pile on excuse after excuse. That's all they're good for; excuses. These shills are just cheerleaders, when the side they cheer on starts losing, they fall silent, because they have no answer for what's going on.

Look, I'm not gonna pretend that all Russians fleeing their country are responsible for this shitshow, don't know what's actually going to happen to them if they get conscripted, or that they deserve it, or that they even remotely support the war to begin with, but let's just be honest here.
Some Russians fleeing are just innocent refugees. Others are "patriots" only when it's convenient, but they don't want to be shipped to the frontlines.

It is pretty goddamn funny that for all their bluster, the moment they're called upon to fight for their big, strong, "based" Mother Country they all scatter like cockroaches to the "decadent West" they were just vehemently bitching about.
Of course they run like cockroaches to the West. This whole tough guy act is a sham by keyboard warriors who want to pretend like they're warriors. When push comes to shove and bullets start flying, their survival instinct kicks in and they run like rats.

It all depends on what is the external lens through which you look at the situation, but yes.
There is no moral stake here just a struggle for supremacy.
Sadly I have only to lose regardless of which side wins here, may Allah burn all their kuffar souls in jahannam.
Then why bother fighting for hierarchy?

Because there are different ways of implementing hierarchy.
One is based on a claim to regal blood, or at holding mystical truth, which are both lies.
False. The best hierarchies are based on higher truths or royal power. Vitality and strength are temporary, one day they will be taken from you if you're not careful, but God's backing stays forever.

Another way is based in claims of vitality, strength, proving oneself in a struggle, like battle, or scientific discovery, or carrying 5 children. The "trad" stuff is more based in pragmatism for me, i.e. national borders and tribal cohesion offer safety to economically develop etc. And yes, the masses need to be kept happy, so they don't revolt, and the elites are nearly always degenerate and should be uprooted, if we're talking about the current system, as none of them has proven themselves in anything of use for humanity or tribe.
Strength is temporary, scientific discoveries don't put you in a position of power, and bearing children only counts if you raise them well.

If you want to uproot elites, then you're not for hierarchy. Hierarchy implies an elite class that stands above the peons. And no matter what you do, there will always be elites who were born into their role instead of earning it, because those who do earn it on their own pass their status and wealth to their kids.
 
He will also knows, or should know, that there are people whose entire job is to put together options for strike packages against Russia for these exact scenarios. I would expect this to hasten his end.
I'll do you one more and say that much like CNN had a perfectly polished video obit for the Queen ready to go, there have been 78 years of Americans wargaming this out and figuring which exact building to deliver which exact missile into.

I'm saying there were perfectly polished nuke plans for Ivan before this fucker was born.
 
More likely, Putin will get kicked out by the oligarchs and be exiled to some neutral country like the Kaiser back in WW1. Maybe he can live in Hungary with Orban? Wait, no, that would be too close to the EU, and some assassin could come and kill him.

Maybe he can live as a monk in Mount Athos? Live a life of penance, praying and making icons in reparation for all the damage he's caused?

No, it really is cope. Teleology comes from religion and tradition, everything falls into place from God's plan.


You can't fulfill any of that without religion and tradition. Because without those two, gaining as much pleasure as possible without constraints from religion is no longer verboten. Which means gay sex and internet porn become legitimate life choices.

The majority's social behaviors come from religion and tradition, not the other way around. And the more ground religion and tradition loses, the more deviant behavior becomes common.

Putin could go to China. All vatniks tell me that CHYNA loves Russia.

I think one of the things Putin has that Mussolini didn't is the oligarchs with their own planes, boats, mansions, and so forth.

He might be riding the last chopper out of Saigon, but it's going to be a chopper with a gold toilet.

Mussolini had the Grand Council of Fascism and its members voted to depose him once the Allies landed in Sicily. Mussolini was rescued by German commandos and then spent the next 18 months as the leader of the Social Republic in northern Italy until he was caught and killed by partisans who then displayed his corpse hanging from its feet in a public square and encouraged the public to abuse it further.

What I'm saying is that I think that a coup is more likely than mob justice in Putin's case.
 
Glad the Farms are back and this thread is back as well!

It's been really long since the last time I posted here, to be honest, I never really had much hope in Ukraine as I thought they were doing a good job defending themselves but were eventually going to lose to Russia, however, it seems I underestimated Russia's abilities to mess stuff up.

Why do you guys think Russia is performing so poorly?
 


A clip from the taking of Lyman. Hopefully not posted, apologies if so.

@Nico

Honestly years of corruption, I think. Now corruption can be a useful way for a dictator to gain allies, but it means money is wasted. Equipment is not maintained, the quality of officers and soldiers low. The main result is that the generals had palaces and soldiers either shivered or were good only for pummelling protestors, ie VDV and the veteran bodies used for mobilising them. The only thing Russia has had in recent times is artillery spam. Despite overwhelming superiority on paper, they never had air superiority. Not during that bungled rush on Kyiv, not now has there been any systematic effort to carrying out things like destroying air bases or essential infrastructure. Logistics seems to have become a den of thieves and drunks.
 
Putin could go to China. All vatniks tell me that CHYNA loves Russia.
He's going to be Xi Jinping's bitch there. But at least he'd be a pampered little parrot as opposed to being dead.

Mussolini had the Grand Council of Fascism and its members voted to depose him once the Allies landed in Sicily. Mussolini was rescued by German commandos and then spent the next 18 months as the leader of the Social Republic in northern Italy until he was caught and killed by partisans who then displayed his corpse hanging from its feet in a public square and encouraged the public to abuse it further.

What I'm saying is that I think that a coup is more likely than mob justice in Putin's case.
I agree. The oligarchs are more likely to be the ones to kill Putin, not the populace. Which explains why more and more of them are winding up dead.
 
View attachment 3706774

A clip from the taking of Lyman. Hopefully not posted, apologies if so.

@Nico

Honestly years of corruption, I think. Now corruption can be a useful way for a dictator to gain allies, but it means money is wasted. Equipment is not maintained, the quality of officers and soldiers low. The main result is that the generals had palaces and soldiers either shivered or were good only for pummelling protestors, ie VDV and the veteran bodies used for mobilising them. The only thing Russia has had in recent times is artillery spam. Despite overwhelming superiority on paper, they never had air superiority. Not during that bungled rush on Kyiv, not now has there been any systematic effort to carrying out things like destroying air bases or essential infrastructure. Logistics seems to have become a den of thieves and drunks.
I think, just as much as the catastrophic corruption - like various officers buying cheap parts from China and pocketing the price difference like happened with all of their radios - is the way the US makes a show of being "concerned" about every new piece of Russian hardware and they buy into it hard. Also the fact that they don't really spend anything on training. They might budget for it, but the general staff needs big watches and yachts, too.

Thus war went from a stalemate to an embarrassment because of 16 pieces of artillery and Ukraine wasn't even give the good rockets for it. Sixteen.
 
Russia is losing territory as they annex it. For comparison, Iraq officially annexed Kuwait at the end of August 1991 after turning it into a puppet state for a month, and Germany officially annexed Belgium in September 1944 as they were retreating from it.

Also I really wished the 41st Internet Groomer Brigade, the ACKing Eagles, didn’t launch their attack when the war was getting interesting.
 
It was always the plan to fall back to Kamchatka.

>Kiev in 72 hours!

>This is a setback, two more weeks!

>It's not a retreat, merely a reorganization!

>The Kiev thrust was a feint, the troops lost were expendable!

>We will take Odessa!

>We didn't need those landing ships!

>We don't need the Moskva!

>Snake Island is ours!

>Those Spetsnaz were Ukrainian!

>We never needed Snake island!

>We never wanted Odessa!

>The pace of our advance is fine!

>We'll advance when we're ready!

>You didn't hit our planes in Crimea!

>We moved our planes from Crimea after the attack, we didn't need that airport!

>The Kherson offensive exists only on twitter!

>The Kharkiv rout is actually defense in depth!

>Alright it's a complete defeat, but we didn't lose that many troops, you're lying!

>The Kherson front, at least, will hold!

>The Kherson front is not collapsing!

>We're not conscripting untrained meat to plug the gaps!

>The untrained conscriptions were bad boyars, the tzar is still good!

>All conscripts are necessary, training isn't important anyway!

>Lyman is going to be relieved by the 58th combined arms army and Wagner Group

>We don't need Lyman, it never mattered!
(YOU ARE HERE)

>You'll never reclaim Donetsk!

>You'll never execute the fifth columnist traitors!

>Crimea will hold!

>You'll never invade Russia proper or we'll nuke you!

>You'll never execute us for our crimes!

>You'll never dissolve the Russian Federation!

>Russia will never be turned into an open pit mine by Ukraine and its western allies, along with the backstabbing Chinese!
 
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View attachment 3706774

A clip from the taking of Lyman. Hopefully not posted, apologies if so.

@Nico

Honestly years of corruption, I think. Now corruption can be a useful way for a dictator to gain allies, but it means money is wasted. Equipment is not maintained, the quality of officers and soldiers low. The main result is that the generals had palaces and soldiers either shivered or were good only for pummelling protestors, ie VDV and the veteran bodies used for mobilising them. The only thing Russia has had in recent times is artillery spam. Despite overwhelming superiority on paper, they never had air superiority. Not during that bungled rush on Kyiv, not now has there been any systematic effort to carrying out things like destroying air bases or essential infrastructure. Logistics seems to have become a den of thieves and drunks.
What they are discovering is even artillery spam requires chimps with at leastca basic understanding of how to aim the artillery. According to some intercepts and interviews most of their artilleymen had about a weeks training outside Moscow a few weeks before the invasion. They are just as likely to drop rounds on their own forces as they are anything else. They are literally just loading and firing with no idea which way its pointing.
 
I am not so sure about this, if you took over from Putin would he not be your first target? Ex-KGB mafioso, ex-ruler with a personality cult who has a penchant for murdering his opponents in very painful, very public ways... He is far too dangerous for any would be leader of Russia, even a reformist if one was to take power would need to have him disposed of, and even if a reformist did take over they would be inheriting a gangster state where such actions would be common place.

Plus, Russia could, for all we know, shatter further with their disparate ethnic minorities vowing for power as Putin's legitimacy in the toilet. In this scenario, he would undoubtedly catch a bullet.

I struggle to see how he lives after power, but if I am honest I would say there is better than even odds he stays in power until he dies of old age or becomes senile.
We're far more likely to see a Russian Civil War Part 2 than anything else at this point. Those outer territories are barely Russian in terms of culture and loyalty, they have no real physical connections (as in transit connections) to Moscow either, so if the federal government just takes a big enough hit we're likely to see some breakaway attempts. After all, they're poor as shit and with conscription stepping up its not like rebellion is going to put their lives in any more danger. Hell, even the Confederacy started falling apart internally starting in 1862 as losses meant conscription and taxation got stepped up hard. Hell, a band of deserters turned Jones County, Mississippi into a de facto independent country with the intensity of their rebellion against Richmond. Should some of the Russian peasants start rebelling Russia's going to have to choose between pointing guns at them or the conscripts in the front lines. And with the distances and infrastructure problems involved anyone sent to put down a rebellion is going to need to be written off almost as harshly as if they had been sent to the Donbass.
So I suppose he's only using nuclear threats as a hollow way to scare the West. Then it's a bluff that would just backfire on him, because the West isn't stopping the aid to Ukraine anytime soon.
Russia has, in one form or another, been threatening to nuke the West ever since 1949. A nuclear threat from Russia may as well be China's final warning for all the weight it carries.
Thus war went from a stalemate to an embarrassment because of 16 pieces of artillery and Ukraine wasn't even give the good rockets for it. Sixteen.
1664673738545.png
As early as 2016 the USA had already called out Russian ammo dumps as giant, glaring weaknesses, not just because of their importance to logistics chains, but because of the complete lack of safety standards. Its no surprise that a few rockets is all it took to have them go up like British battlecruisers.

EDIT: To give you guys an idea of just how fucked Russia is should there be any serious rebellions, out of a population of 140 million Moscow is 13 million, or less than 10%. St. Petersburg is only another five million. Combined that's 12% of the total population of Russia, and with no access to significant natural resources or food. When you consider that the only truly reliable internal suppression forces Putin has come from either of those two cities, the math is definitely not in his favor, especially since he has to decide if those forces are pointing guns at the conscripts in Ukraine or shooting rebels in some uppity federal republic in the ass end of nowhere. Now, obviously, there's going to be local forces he can count on that are loyal to the governor or whoever, but whoever Putin sends is going to have to keep an eye on those to make sure they're actually loyal and said governor isn't trying to play both sides. And of course any conscripts sent in are going to need to be watched like hawks by said Muscovite suppression forces... and there's a non-zero risk they side with the rebels anyways.

TL;DR: Putin doesn't have enough of the absolutely loyal manpower he needs to maintain power should some assholes in Novosibirsk, Omsk, or Vladivostok start shit.
 
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