Serious LGBT Discussion

yeah I was being flippant but at the end of the day it's a systemic identity disorder caused by running away from the difficulties of adolescence (and growing up in general) onto the online world, which is really common with our generation.

they run away so hard that they don't learn the basic life skills like
- 'not copying your identity off of those around you/making yourself the polar opposite'
- 'not thinking what you see is what you have to be'
-'learning to see others in a nuanced way by engaging with a variety of people who don't agree with you'
- 'not getting what you want and not feeling bad about it'
-'challenging yourself physically routinely as a habit and learning to enjoy what your body has to offer to you'
-'not making up stories about what's going on in everyone else's heads 101'
-'not spending your entire life in your head reading text and thinking about it'
- 'learning to set sequential goals and doing stuff with yourself daily for the enjoyment of doing things with yourself and seeing yourself progress'
- 'stop being a chunni'
- 'stop being prejudiced against people you're actually percieving as cooler than you and intimidating and try to befriend them instead. at least give it a shot'
-'resolving social conflicts with people that scare you productively'
-'stop creating identities to make yourself feel special by thinking in circles and recognize all you need and really want is to tackle your fears and progressively get better at concrete things rather than fulfilling the imaginary needs of a made up concept'
-'what you are is what you are, you are trying to subtract instead of accepting and building from there'
-'literally stop thinking with your dick'

basically they're so online they never learn how to live in a body. how to have a body. how to use their body. what their body really is and how it acts. how to control their body, when to not control their body and just process the information from their senses into actionable thoughts. how other people actually perceive their body. what other people are thinking when they see them. how to interact with others as a person that is just another person like all the other people are. how to become more of themselves, rather than reject themselves and become someone they've imagined they should be based on what they think other people are and what they think other people think they are.

At the end of the day, the skill of waking up loading into a 'yes, I am awake, hmm I'm going to do x today' instead of "I am awake I am a man I must do manly things oh god is that manly enough oh god what if I'm a woman I wonder what OnlineLoser425 thinks about this behaviour what if that's what my mom meant by 'just please go outside' like outside the box metaphorically?"

Fucking what they end up doing is escaping their body sensation into a rat maze of imagined perceptions, living out the horrors of unhealthy emotional attachment to the kafkian maze of online chunnis. they've the self-concept and self-awareness of a poorly-raised 12 year old, because that's where they stopped growing. only they can fix it, because only they can make themselves realize it's a problem.

ergo: skill issue, touch grass, get over yourself. can't? skill issue x2 git gud lol

and don't start going off on me about psychology studies because there's a four word, two emoji flippant phrase for that too: ✨correlation is not causation✨
I think you're oversimplifying it. The thing is, this didn't just arise out of nowhere.
It wasn't like one day people just forgot how to feel things and be human, they're the way they are because the structure of the modern world has come to encourage them to do so.

Think about how sick the entire work as a culture attitude has become, and how frequently people are expected to completely suppress and ignore their feelings or what they actually want. Humans are designed to be able to tolerate some level of self suppression and re-channeling of urges for the sake of social cohesion, but the level we've reached is extreme beyond anything any social animal is intended to tolerate. There are too many people and social institutions have become far too entrenched. You don't get to decide for yourself in most cases. You participate on their terms, or you don't participate at all.

You aren't supposed to be online? Better tell all those people who are forced to make a living in front of a computer. These people don't want to have to get paid shit to work, where are they going to get their money or housing? Will they just be homeless? On whose dollar? Is that what they want, growing old on the streets (edit: or in prison, if they keep acting on how they feel)? Feeling and wanting things won't materialize them.

And just personally, I guess anyone who's seen some of my posts here knows I kind of have my own way about things, but I'm aware that the fact I'm walking around doing what I want means there are other guys out there who aren't going to have that opportunity. What are they supposed to do, exactly? In another time a lot of these people would've died of sickness or through war, just like any of us could've (strength doesn't mitigate a bullet to the head) but what are they supposed to do now?

That's wonderful to say that you should feel things and act on them and be human, but if you're taking up space to swing your arms that means everyone else has less space, and not everyone's going to get to do that. We're in the situation we're in because there are other people who came before us who've taken up their own space, and left very little for us.

Without there being voids in the world around you, the opportunity to step up and carve your own sense of self doesn't exist.


This is rat utopia shit. Without the opportunity for role fulfillment, social organisms cannot thrive psychologically and will revert to neurotic, pathological behaviors.

That's why as much as I can tell people you treat trannyism by encouraging humanism, how do you do that? Touch grass? You live in some bughive city, where are you going to touch grass, exactly? There's no more grass left. It was all torn out to fit another apartment complex, which houses an entire other group of people who wish they could touch grass.

You're right about the root cause, but it's honestly a little arrogant to act like the solution is that simple. It's not, we didn't end up where we are by accident.
 
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Alright now that we’re back on here, let’s talk about the sore point that Keffals has brought up: virtue signaling transgender identities for children.


Let’s seriously set with that one that, shall we? I think it’s unethical to force and brainwash medication on children that don’t know the full consequences of taking hormones. If it takes you until you’re 18 to get to the age of consent just for sex stuff, that should also apply for medication.

Thoughts?
As someone who believes transgender people exist, I have to agree with you. Identify as you like, but if you're going to start hormones you should have to wait until you're 18 and fully know the side effects it can (or will) cause. The fact that there's people out there encouraging and helping kids get on unregulated. unsafe, homemade hormones is sickening and they should be in jail. Often times the issue isn't transgenderism, it's an issue with adjusting to society or learning to accept your body. I've seen many females who enter puberty and begin to hate their body due to now having men staring constantly and think transitioning to male is the solution.
 
unironically agree. everybody with body disphoria or dismorphia should try new hobbies preferably a sport or gym or anything outdoors paired with something more creative. if they tried that in only a couple of months most of them would get way better and would stop the gender bullcrap. the girls who think theyre men out because they hate themselves surely at least. not so sure about the coomer agp types who get turned on wearing their sisters panties.
AFAIK, a lot of bodybuilders have body dysmorphia. They will never see themselves as big enough, and will keep pumping iron and shooting steroids until they die from a heart attack.
 
AFAIK, a lot of bodybuilders have body dysmorphia. They will never see themselves as big enough, and will keep pumping iron and shooting steroids until they die from a heart attack.
thats true. gym doesnt solve disphoria or dismorphia. but i think many teens that say they are trans would benefit from sport. trans ideology pushes a lot the mind/body disconnection and they dont feel comfortable in their own skin. sports could make them finally learn that they ARE their body and that they can control it + all the health benefits from excercise. im not saying they would immediately stop saying they are trans, but i do think some of them would at least feel less in pain. a lot of teenage girls ftm have eds, so it could either be helpful or backfire really badly though lol
 
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Identify as you like, but if you're going to start hormones you should have to wait until you're 18 and fully know the side effects it can (or will) cause.
Am I a bad person if I think people considering HRT and surgery should be shown videos and pictures of people who have gone through with it and have side effects?
 
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> That's why as much as I can tell people you treat trannyism by encouraging humanism, how do you do that? Touch grass? You live in some bughive city, where are you going to touch grass, exactly?


Mmm no you've missed my point, or perhaps I said it incorrectly. In "touch grass", grass is not the key term, touch is.

To explain it in more conceptual terms, it is the sense of self being dual- the sense of the body as a person, and the sense of self, meta-awareness, as a person. You (your body) and you (your you) are two distinct identities and modes of experience that should be able to communicate and engage without obligation of one to override the other.

I would agree that the sense of the body as a person is culturally suppressed, but I wouldn't say it's because of having jobs or concrete jungles. It's a consequence of and a flaw of american culture - and, you may notice, other heirarchical cultures experiencing collapse experienced this as well. The long term consequence of strict mono-self heirarchical cultures has always been trannies followed by collapse.

It is a flaw of the heirarchy.
Work overriding the pleasant influence of community (which you can still have in a city). Online desires overriding the physical joy of the outdoors (which you can still have in a city). Mind overriding the presence of a self that is the body, forcing it into imagined shapes instead of following and experiencing its whims. These are distinct selves that should be friends, and yet a heirarchy is being forced. That is not a modern culture phenomenon, it is a consequence of heirarchy on the mind. Their mental them thinks it should have that kind of power to abuse their physical them. CNS self-input > PNS self-input prioritization.

The flaw is in the puritanical heirarchical heart of the culture, that feeds toxic capitalism and transgenderism both.

You can even see it in the appeal of tiktok and asmr. sure there's content thats basically just walls of text, but in essence the majority of tiktoks are someone else's experience of the physical self caught on video, and this is incredibly addicting to the average person because we are so disconnected from others by this forced stress heirarchy that we don't really see their non-mental selves. A tiktok of someone talking about doing a backflip then doing a backflip is someone communicating to you through their physical self without any judgment or analysis of your physical self relative to them in value or whatever. it's literally just vibes, calling to your physical self.

I'm encouraging dualism more than anything else.

something something monke matters
 
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Am I a bad person if I think people considering HRT and surgery should be shown videos and pictures of people who have gone through with it and have side effects?
Not at all, all aspects of medical transition should be widely available to those considering doing so. And medical transition should only be an option for people who are 100% sure they want this, even if it means that the results might not be what they hoped. Transitioning isn't just something you can do for "funsies"; it's a irreversible life-altering decision.
 
> That's why as much as I can tell people you treat trannyism by encouraging humanism, how do you do that? Touch grass? You live in some bughive city, where are you going to touch grass, exactly?


Mmm no you've missed my point, or perhaps I said it incorrectly. In "touch grass", grass is not the key term, touch is.

To explain it in more conceptual terms, it is the sense of self being dual- the sense of the body as a person, and the sense of self, meta-awareness, as a person. You (your body) and you (your you) are two distinct identities and modes of experience that should be able to communicate and engage without obligation of one to override the other.

I would agree that the sense of the body as a person is culturally suppressed, but I wouldn't say it's because of having jobs or concrete jungles. It's a consequence of and a flaw of american culture - and, you may notice, other heirarchical cultures experiencing collapse experienced this as well. The long term consequence of strict mono-self heirarchical cultures has always been trannies followed by collapse.

It is a flaw of the heirarchy.
Work overriding the pleasant influence of community (which you can still have in a city). Online desires overriding the physical joy of the outdoors (which you can still have in a city). Mind overriding the presence of a self that is the body, forcing it into imagined shapes instead of following and experiencing its whims. These are distinct selves that should be friends, and yet a heirarchy is being forced. That is not a modern culture phenomenon, it is a consequence of heirarchy on the mind. Their mental them thinks it should have that kind of power to abuse their physical them. CNS self-input > PNS self-input prioritization.

The flaw is in the puritanical heirarchical heart of the culture, that feeds toxic capitalism and transgenderism both.

You can even see it in the appeal of tiktok and asmr. sure there's content thats basically just walls of text, but in essence the majority of tiktoks are someone else's experience of the physical self caught on video, and this is incredibly addicting to the average person because we are so disconnected from others by this forced stress heirarchy that we don't really see their non-mental selves. A tiktok of someone talking about doing a backflip then doing a backflip is someone communicating to you through their physical self without any judgment or analysis of your physical self relative to them in value or whatever. it's literally just vibes, calling to your physical self.

I'm encouraging dualism more than anything else.

something something monke matters
We're separated from others because of population flow that results from modern technology, because we don't have any reason to go outside and talk to our neighbors anymore if all you do is get in the car and go drive off to some other place, or get on a computer and deal with people halfway across the world. People didn't interact historically because oh, better not wind up a tranny, they did it because they had to and the psychological benefits were an unintended side effect.

If anything I think your thinking is the kind that feeds into transgenderism, this sort of nescient strength of the mind type belief where the body is vestigial. And in fact it's almost insultingly cynical towards our species, that this level of impairment could arise just because people aren't thinking quite right or whatever.


People become familiar with themselves through struggle. Challenge and overcoming is what defines an individual.

If I'm sitting at a computer, there's no pronounced difference between me and some woman half my weight.
On the other hand, if I had to go out and wrangle some animals or go lift or fix shit, or she went to have a child, it would become very immediately clear where our differences lie.

In an environment where selective pressures are exerted there is no transgenderism, there is no mistaking the role you NEED to fill to survive and thrive. And role fulfillment is necessary for psychological function, they discussed that with the rat utopia experiments and the very similar social symptoms that occurred there.
If you don't need to fill any role to survive or thrive, then you're nothing. You can imagine yourself as whatever the fuck you want to, your body does become vestigial.

Technology sacrifices humanity at the altar of efficiency, and we're suffering from a lack of humanity. To put it in dramatic terms, the human spirit is rotting.

I think that's where our difference lies, because personally I've long since shed myself of the belief that my mind somehow transcends my humanity or that the human mind is capable of independently shaping a person's being. It's all one big thing, and if my body isn't being used as a tool to its full potential my mind won't be satisfied, and vice versa. I'm one whole thing. I don't know what that thing is, but whatever it is I am it.

I think people should have to go through a rigorous mental evaluation before posting in this thread.
I feel bad because I think this thread is mainly supposed to be for gays to discuss being homos and their favorite brand of lavender scented lubricant or whatever, and it winds up being focused on either trannies or people claiming butt sex is the downfall of western civilization. Poor homos already put up with trannies stealing the spotlight enough as is.
 
Not at all, all aspects of medical transition should be widely available to those considering doing so. And medical transition should only be an option for people who are 100% sure they want this, even if it means that the results might not be what they hoped. Transitioning isn't just something you can do for "funsies"; it's a irreversible life-altering decision.
I disagree, it shouldn't be "widely" available. There shouldn't be (and aren't) enough of these people to justify training doctors in their treatment. There is no reason for this to exist outside of dedicated specialists and clinics in cities.
 
@Uberpenguin : Well, it is the LGBT thread. Petition to start a new, cis-only LGB thread? Some trannies are going to cry out and say "but we're also gay/lesbian/bi!!!"
I have always been against the T in LGB, and the general vibe from other LGB is that they agree. Being gay is so far from having body dysmorphia, which what being a tranny is.
 
I have always been against the T in LGB, and the general vibe from other LGB is that they agree. Being gay is so far from having body dysmorphia, which what being a tranny is.
Right, LGB is about attraction, T speaks to nothing about that and is completely about self-identity.

Then again I always said that about the addition of the Q as well. What is being queer even? Like you're gay but also quirky and dye your hair pink? Anything beyond the LGB is nonsense that's just tacked on there to pander to clowns who look at the whole thing as a fashion statement rather than a description of an instinctive response one has when exposed to certain stimuli.

Your brain can tell you're into someone/something within a fraction of a second of it entering your visual periphery, by that point your subconscious has already processed it and told you to look over there. It's primal and reflexive.
Meanwhile, the idea of wanting to be "another gender" requires complex connections to be made and is totally internal.

They're two entirely difference concepts, and now that I'm thinking about it it's a little insulting, like "Yeah whatever, they're a deviant, go throw them in the alphabet bin with the others"

@Uberpenguin : Well, it is the LGBT thread. Petition to start a new, cis-only LGB thread? Some trannies are going to cry out and say "but we're also gay/lesbian/bi!!!"
It might not be the worst idea: drifting into discussion of the T is probably unavoidable I think, but even if the title of this thread was different to de-emphasize trannies to people clicking in here, that would probably help.

Of course I'm a standard straight dude and I've indulged in tranny discussion in this thread before, so I can't act like I'm innocent.
 
It might not be the worst idea: drifting into discussion of the T is probably unavoidable I think, but even if the title of this thread was different to de-emphasize trannies to people clicking in here, that would probably help.

Of course I'm a standard straight dude and I've indulged in tranny discussion in this thread before, so I can't act like I'm innocent.
The frustrating thing is that there's also a dedicated "General transgender discussion thread" a few threads down.
 
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