Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Also apparently Bothan lives don't matter, despite them being a major reason they got the damn plans anyway.
Weren't they the ones involved for the Second Death Star plans, not the first? Last I checked, it was originally Leia, Kyle Katarn, and Moff Kalast. Although the Bothans did have a minor role with aiding the Rebels to get the plans for the first Death Star, not a major one. It was still enough that the Emperor decided to visit Bothawui and execute a whole town with his Dark Side powers as a big "FUCK YOU" to the Bothans for choosing to aid the Rebellion.

I dunno where Stackpole's books specifically tie in but aren't there kind of a lot of X-Wing/Rogue Squadron properties? Some of which were kind of a big deal, too. I'm not rooting for it in particular but now that I think of it I wouldn't at all mind em going back to the classic-style spess dogfighting well.
Oh, if you want that kind of action, buy yourself a Gamecube or a Wii, and get the Rogue Squadron games. Lots of good space dogfighting action, nary a Jedi in sight. Well, outside of the few Darth Vader levels where you play as Vader and dunk on the Rebels, but the man stays inside his starfighter and doesn't swing his lightsaber around.

Literally nobody thinks that dude, we've all seen the movies. But there's a big difference from the blank slate of the original trilogy to the sterile stink of the prequels still being all over everything even when they made a point of trying to hit similar beats. It's no longer a mystery; when characters jack off over Jedi we now know they're talking about a skin-deep "religion" of faggots and posturing morons who sit around in council rooms being thick assholes.
That's the point, though. The Jedi and the Sith both have good points to their philosophy, but they're too thick-headed to see it that way. The Jedi are right in that having a calm mind and heart is the best way to deal with things, and the Sith are right in that strength and passion are needed to survive a harsh galaxy. The best heroes and villains are the ones that have good points, but are flawed in some way. Perfect characters are hard to pull off, and evil-for-the-sake-of-evil characters are old hat. Two things the Prequels did right was show some wisdom from the Emperor, and show that maybe, just maybe, there were some positives to the Empire, when the government that preceded it ran like a headless chicken.

It also casts doubt on what the Jedi Masters of the OT were saying about the Republic and the Dark Times of the Empire; maybe they were seeing the Republic with rose-tinted glasses and weren't really noticing the flaws, instead remembering the era of the Republic as a time when they were large, in charge, and were the ones dispensing justice. The Empire is evil, but as Vader said, their main goal was order, not pointless brutality.
 
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But there's a big difference from the blank slate of the original trilogy to the sterile stink of the prequels still being all over everything even when they made a point of trying to hit similar beats.
This is funny to me too. Hate the prequels as much as you want but they still lead directly into ANH and by extension the rest of the OT. All of the events of the OT happen exactly as they did before 1999 (post-97 changes notwithstanding). Luke still blows up the Death Stars becomes a Jedi, Vader still gets redeemed, the good guys still win in the end. We just didn't know the little autistic details beforehand that the PT gave us whether you like or dislike them. The story of the OT never changed.

The fucking sequels on the other hand......
when characters jack off over Jedi we now know they're talking about a skin-deep "religion" of faggots and posturing morons who sit around in council rooms being thick assholes.
I thought the entire point was that the Jedi were full of hubris by the time of the PT (which is the only way they could've been retarded enough to get wiped out by Palpatine) but as an organization they deserved to exist. Luke learned from the mistakes of the past and was SUPPOSED to fix them in the future. The Jedi used their powers for good, well that is until Disney decided the Jedi were shit and the galaxy is better off without them existing at all.
 
The story of the OT never changed.
I mean, no shit? I'm clearly speaking from the perspective of the narrative construction/presentation and audience perception of the original films, which were the basis of everything for most of us non-zoomers. The impact of the prequels (which I don't hate but they do suck) is entirely about the downstream effect.

Even after they came out, when it was just them, it was pretty easy to partition them out of your appreciation for the franchise. There was a bright line between actual Star Wars and prequelshit, and most people/spin-offs could kinda ignore them or pick and choose parts. But that's muddier and more difficult now the more official canon Jedi/Republic stuff we get, I don't wanna be reminded.

I thought the entire point was that the Jedi were full of hubris by the time of the PT (which is the only way they could've been retarded enough to get wiped out by Palpatine) but as an organization they deserved to exist. Luke learned from the mistakes of the past and was SUPPOSED to fix them in the future.
Yeah that's a good way to interpret it personally and maybe it was even the intent, but they seriously fucked up the landing by not having any contrast. The main pair don't live up to the legend enough to make the whole institution not seem like ineffectual poseurs: fucking Dooku's a more admirable Jedi archetype. Even if you can justify it, that's still a wet fart for the fans.
But the problem downstream is that later writers don't necessarily make this discrimination so it's become a template for how faggoty Jedi are supposed to be. There's exceptions (I really like the kid in Fallen Order) but you can tell it's snuck in. That and fucking council room scenes for some reason.

Disney decided the Jedi were shit and the galaxy is better off without them existing at all.
Based.
 
Stackpole's novels were greenlit to synergize with the release of the X-Wing game on PC in 1993, but I don't believe it's narratively connected in anyway.

As for the current canon offerings, there already are two properties that prioritize dogfighting and pilots--they were the Alphabet Squadron novels and the Squadrons game, and both were absolutely horrendous.

Not least of which because the novels do what all Disney media does, and makes laughable attempts to diminish the old heroes in an attempt to prop up their own OC's, like a fanfic writer autistically shrieking about the unlimited power level of their Gary Stu self-insert Sonic recolor:
Even the way this was written sounds like a bitter author vouching for an OC. You could write that in many ways without sounding like a cunt.
 
I thought the entire point was that the Jedi were full of hubris by the time of the PT (which is the only way they could've been retarded enough to get wiped out by Palpatine) but as an organization they deserved to exist. Luke learned from the mistakes of the past and was SUPPOSED to fix them in the future. The Jedi used their powers for good, well that is until Disney decided the Jedi were shit and the galaxy is better off without them existing at all.

That was always my read of it too. The Jedi got very complacent and increasingly wrapped up in the Republic's secular affairs as the post-Rusaan era went on, and thus were blinded to things that a more dynamic order would have noticed and chased down. Thus, the stagnation they represented was put to the torch by Big E and Little V, and then all that was left was wiping out the Sith to finish cleaning the slate and let Luke begin again.

As for the second part, while I enjoy a good normie/pseudo-normie adventure in the setting, you gotta have space wizards somewhere. I personally like space wizards with guns the most, but you gotta have them somewhere.
 
Just to Mary Sue up Jyn Erso, Disney erased one of the better illustrations of how evil the Empire was, removing all technology from Toprawa, making the people live in the stone age and forcing them to get on their bellies and cry about how sad they were over their 'role' in the death star plans being leaked, and whether they got food handouts or not based on how sincere the stormtroopers thought their crying was

I did always think it was kinda weird how we never got an EU story or at least a reference to the New Republic liberating Toprawa though, guess they had better stuff to do!
 
When it comes to the Jedi and their own failings as an Order, it’s never established by any resource, the films or the Expanded Universe, that the Jedi are flawed by their very existence, that their philosophy is the cause of their downfall, or that it’s in some way incompatible with the way people are supposed to live. That’s a fanboy argument generated by autists who want to roleplay as Grey Jedi, and desperately wanted to play with the whole slew of Light Side and Dark Side powers by pretending that the latter affinity is natural, and not the cancerous path it’s repeatedly depicted as being in every form of media.

This is where it’s important to remember that the Jedi Order’s “failure” during the Prequel Trilogy is not because of complacency or bureaucratic stuffiness. That’s also incorrect, as is the idea that their enforcement of the “no-attachment rule” or their inherent philosophy was their failure. Lucas has gone on record several times by stating that when Anakin bucks the trends of the Order by emotionally latching onto his wife, it’s Anakin who is the root cause of everything that comes next—not the Jedi and their stuffy, rigid philosophy, as so many believe. This is exemplified in this quote from The Making of Revenge of the Sith:

“What drove me to make these movies is that this is a really interesting story about how people go bad. [This] is about a kid that’s really wonderful. He has some flaws—and those flaws ultimately do him in.

“The core issue, ultimately, is greed, possessiveness—the inability to let go. Not only to hold on to material things, which is greed, but to hold onto life, to the people you love—to not accept the reality of life’s passages and changes, which is to say things come, things go. Everything changes. Anakin becomes emotionally attached to things, his mother, his wife. That’s why he falls—because he does not have the ability to let go.”

Anakin was not “let down” by the order, he was let down by his own actions. While it’s true that the films establish that a huge chunk of his fall is due to his own beliefs and mentality being opposed to the philosophy as the Order, that’s never due to the Jedi being wrong. It’s Anakin himself being incompatible with the core Jedi philosophy, which itself is designed for a faction of superhumans who are spiritually inclined to keep their emotional attachments and breaches of power in check due to their Force alignment being precariously tied to how they regulate themselves. Because of their connection to the Force, they’re more susceptible to becoming a force for evil than the average person. This is why I have to roll my eyes every time I see someone shriek: “Ugh, the Jedi are such monsters! How do they expect regular people to function with these rigid rules about attachments?” That’s the entire point…Jedi AREN’T regular people. If a regular person loses themself to grief, or anger, or interpersonal obsession, the consequences are exclusively human, and locked within the parameters of their own physical matter. You know what the consequence for playing fast and loose with emotional restraint is for a Jedi? Turning to the Dark Side and becoming a destructive font of power without even being aware of it. Hence why they live by different rules of restraint compared to the average person, because the consequences are far more dire.

This is at the core of what being a Jedi in the Star Wars universe is—whether it’s as the robed and spiritual version we see in the PT, or the scrappier and more guerilla version we see under Luke’s tutelage in New Jedi Order and beyond: there are degrees of lenience in the kind of emotional and interpersonal restraint each iteration of the Order emphasizes (as demonstrated by Jedi marriages in Luke’s time), but the message is still the same—let your attachments rule you, and you risk a Dark Side turn. This is one of the reasons why Luke chooses to not to be an active participant in the takedown of his nephew Jacen, because after the destructive emotional way he reacted to his own wife’s death, he doesn’t trust himself to deal with Jacen as coolly and calculatedly as a Jedi requires, relinquishing the bulk of active retaliation to others. And when operating as Grandmaster in the following series, he leads by example and demonstrates a balanced and healthy sense of closure over his wife’s loss, where his son Ben is still emotionally unstable and obsessing over it. It’s a recurring element that being objective and coolheaded, and not being bogged down by interpersonal hangups, is the chief function of the Jedi Knights…that was true in Anakin’s time, as well as Luke’s.

So the question is: if the Jedi’s complacency or cloistered religious inclinations weren’t the cause of their undoing during the PT, then what was? The closest thing to an explicit statement on this that we have from George Lucas comes from this Revenge of the Sith interview, regarding the Jedi’s downfall:

“The Jedi are always sort of fighting this reality—the fact that they’re, in essence, diplomats. They sort of persuade people to do the right thing. But their job really isn’t to go around fighting people, yet now, they’re being used as generals and fighting a war…they’re doing something they really weren’t meant to do. They’re being corrupted by this war…by being forced to be generals, instead of peacemakers.”

In essence, it wasn’t the Jedi’s philosophy or complacency that made them vulnerable. If anything, being guardians of the peace instead of the driving military force of the galaxy is them functioning as intended—and being guiding participants of full-scale war swayed them from their spiritual function. Now, I have to emphasize: this does not mean the Jedi aren’t supposed to fight at all. Some autists will run with that idea and assume that a faction called the Jedi Knights are supposed to be pacifist, when in fact, they fight all the time when driven to do so. A group of Jedi fighting as one in the Geonosis Arena, for instance, isn’t what corrupts them. Fighting, in and of itself, isn’t the problem—it’s partaking in the other necessary functions of war. Engaging in plots or secrecy, spreading the influence of war across the galaxy…making those callous but necessary decisions as a general, regardless of how seedy they might be. These are the kind of things that the Jedi would fall back on as a last resort, but the Clone Wars force them to employ as a constant part of their existence for three years of brutal conflict. This doesn’t turn them to the Dark Side, per se, but it’s so far out of their wheelhouse that it conditions them to make decisions they normally wouldn’t. Turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to matters they would normally resolve more rationally. (I should also note that some people mistakenly attribute this as to why the Jedi couldn’t sense Sidious in the Force, but it was established by Count Dooku that Sidious had succeeded in cloaking himself in the Force and hiding within the Jedi’s midst before the war had even started).

They are effectively people with good intentions, that fall into the trap of warfare set by Palpatine, and are eventually let down by their own willingness to become cogs of a greater war machine that’s secretly increasing the influence of their one true enemy. This is another crucial element that separates this Jedi Order’s participation in warfare different from others…because I’m sure a number of you are ready to point out: “What about the countless Jedi wars against the Sith in the past? What about the wars Luke spearheads after Endor against the Yuuzhan Vong or the Lost Tribe of the Sith?” And I think the major difference there is that the Jedi involved, Luke very much included, are not only able to pull themselves back and evaluate the trajectory of their actions and decisions where the PT Jedi didn’t—they also weren’t fighting a war that was secretly benefitting an enemy like Palpatine. Part of the tragedy of the Clone Wars is that every step they take to end the war just makes Palpatine more powerful—increases his reach across the galaxy, snatching up planets and resources in the name of ending the war, bloating his authority with endless emergency powers. They only realize the neverending nature of Palpatine’s power-grab at the last minute and, in Lucas’ attempts to mirror Nixon and Caesar, it’s already too late. That’s a unique circumstance that neither the Jedi of Old, nor Luke’s New Jedi Order have to contend with, hence why they weren’t corrupted in the same way and rendered helpless in the same way the PT Jedi were.

Ultimately, the Jedi of the Prequel Era were stunted by their actions, not their inaction. Their deviation from their typical duties and philosophies, rather than their rigid clinging to them. While it is true that revisions to the Order happened during Luke’s time, it would be incorrect to blame the Jedi Order’s downfall during the Clone Wars as their failure to institute those same revisions. I know it can sometimes get lost in Lucas’ garbled and somewhat confusing writing, but things like the Jedi Order regulating attachments or being too rigid is not why they fell. The Clone War itself, being victims of Palpatine’s machinations in their noble but misguided attempts to end said war, are what caused their downfall. I think far too many people let their personal hangups with the concept of the PT Jedi color their grasp of why they were ultimately defeated, often using it as a launchpad to declare “what they would fix about the Jedi”. It’s the Rian Johnson approach—woefully misunderstand something, and then demonstrate that cluelessness by loudly trumpeting their clueless “solution” to a non-existent problem…often failing to realize that said solution is antithetical to how Star Wars thematically functions. The reality is that the Jedi and their core philosophy isn’t all that complicated, and is very simple. Both are attuned to the binary nature of Star Wars’ universe. And while people would argue that creatively prohibits grey or complicated storytelling, I would disagree—because conflicts, actions and character decisions can still be morally complex, even when set in a world with binary factions like the Jedi and the Sith. Because much like other narrative tools like Star Trek’s Primary Directive or Batman’s No-Kill Rule, it induces writers to create inventive and fascinating scenarios and consequences for characters struggling to fit within that binary parameter of good and evil. Taking a simple rule, and making complex scenarios out of it.

My favorite EU stories like New Jedi Order, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi all deal with characters struggling to better adhere to the emotional restraint and inhuman levels of enlightenment demanded by the core Jedi philosophy…and it’s that struggle, that dilemma of how to fit within that so-called rigid, binary Jedi philosophy that yields some of the most fascinating stories in the franchise.

That’s where Star Wars is at its best: weaving complicated and intricate stories out of the simple thematic criteria dictated by the films, rather than in spite of it.

As for the second part, while I enjoy a good normie/pseudo-normie adventure in the setting, you gotta have space wizards somewhere. I personally like space wizards with guns the most, but you gotta have them somewhere.
Indeed. I always scratch my head a little when I see people claim to like Star Wars, but want the Jedi and Sith aspect surgically removed.

It's like, if you want solely space heroics or military sci-fi without that pesky cosmic fantasy of Sith and Jedi getting in the way, franchises like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 are right down the hall. The idea that Star Wars would ever permanently distance itself from the Force--the critical driving narrative element that many of these other franchises lack, but gives Star Wars its unique fantasy flavor--is farcical. As is the idea that the Jedi wouldn't be central players in a major story event transpiring/threatening in the universe, when logistically their power alone would guarantee their participation. That's like tuning in for some epic DC Crossover, and then being pissed that Superman shows up. Y'know, that incredibly powerful entity whose omission in a universe-ending conflict would be questionable at best?

I feel like some of these people don't even hear themselves...or are secretly bigger fans of outside sci-fi properties, bitter that SW doesn't do enough to conform to the sensibilities of those other franchises.
 
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I mean, no shit? I'm clearly speaking from the perspective of the narrative construction/presentation and audience perception of the original films, which were the basis of everything for most of us non-zoomers. The impact of the prequels (which I don't hate but they do suck) is entirely about the downstream effect.

Even after they came out, when it was just them, it was pretty easy to partition them out of your appreciation for the franchise. There was a bright line between actual Star Wars and prequelshit, and most people/spin-offs could kinda ignore them or pick and choose parts. But that's muddier and more difficult now the more official canon Jedi/Republic stuff we get, I don't wanna be reminded.
Really? To me, it wasn't that hard to see the line in-between. The old OT EU treated the Jedi of old as myths and legends and focused more on military sci-fi with some bits of fantasy here and there. (Dark Empire was the most they dipped into fantasy) But most of the EU save for the Tales of the Jedi comics were mostly military sci-fi works with nary a lightsaber. So I know which parts of the EU to partake in when I want something different.

If I want standard Jedi lightsaber-swinging action, I'll pop in some TCW episodes, the 2003 Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon, or watch some TOR trailers. If I want sci-fi military action, I'll play the Battlefront, Rogue Squadron, or Republic Commando games. If I want a power fantasy, I'll play the Jedi Knight, KOTOR, or Force Unleashed games. And the same goes for the books; Tales of the Jedi and Dark Empire are hard fantasy. Crimson Empire and the Thrawn trilogy are military sci-fi. James Luceno's books (Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader and Tarkin) are about space politics.

Yeah that's a good way to interpret it personally and maybe it was even the intent, but they seriously fucked up the landing by not having any contrast. The main pair don't live up to the legend enough to make the whole institution not seem like ineffectual poseurs: fucking Dooku's a more admirable Jedi archetype. Even if you can justify it, that's still a wet fart for the fans.
That's the point. Legends rarely live up to the reality. You hear about how great someone is, how smart they are, how wonderful, then you meet the guy and he's a piece of shit. There's a reason why they say "never meet your heroes."

I remember what Ice from KOTOR once said about her childhood celebrity, Bendak Starkiller:
"As a little girl, I used to dream about meeting him one day. When I finally did, the guy was a complete slime ball."

As an aside, that's pretty much the case for the inspirations of the Jedi: the Samurai and the Knights Templar. History is rife with legends speaking about Samurai and Templar honor and how they were the best warriors of their day, about how Templars are willing to die for Christ while Samurai will gut themselves if their lords order them to, but at the end of the day, they were both bossy assholes who met their end when the world moved on from them. The Samurai would kill peasants at the drop of a hat and wouldn't think twice of betraying their daimyo if it suits them, and they were mostly eradicated and replaced by the new Imperial Japanese army during the Meiji Restoration. The Templars got a little too arrogant and got their asses handed to them by the Muslim heathens they were fighting. Then they were eradicated by the French, because the snail-eaters owed way too much money to the Templars and the king didn't want to pay.

It's actually rather fitting that the Jedi do not live up to the legend that Kenobi tells Luke about in the OT. Because the legend he transmits to Luke came from a rose-tinted point of view of things gone by. Kenobi himself says that many of the truths they cling to depend on their point of view. So while Kenobi was nostalgic for the era of the Old Republic, because he saw the Jedi as enforcers of justice, the reality might have been very different; that they were pompous, arrogant brats who were barely doing the minimum to keep things running, and they were too stuck in their ways to see the truth, so they paid the price for it. Whether by accident or by design, Lucas communicated a basic fact from history to the big screen.

Well, they did make Luke say "the Jedi must end."
 
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So when did you guys all decide that actually Lucas is a good director? I must have missed that meeting.

Nothing in those movies lands the way he meant it to. Phantom Menace wasn't trying to be subversive, it ends with a water bomb fight ffs. WKUK are the only ones who ever pulled that off.
Love him or hate him, that was the point Lucas was trying to get across. They even have Obi-Wan say in ROTJ that "many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." And we see that in full effect in TPM; the Jedi are barely worthy of the legend Ben Kenobi spins about them in ANH, because the reality of the Jedi is far different than the myth.

The Jedi are powerful, possessing gifts that the rest of the galaxy can barely aspire to, but they are flawed, weakened by their arrogance and their dogmatism about the Force, preventing them from reaching their full potential. Even in the originals we see bits and pieces of this, where Yoda and Ben both believe that redeeming Darth Vader is a lost cause, yet Luke accomplishes it. Instead, Yoda would rather have Luke stay on Dagobah in EPV and let Leia and the others die-something that would've had a net negative effect on the galaxy overall.

It shows that for all his power, Yoda had lost what would be his humanity. He wanted to turn Luke into an unfeeling hitman to kill the Sith, a hitman who doesn't give a damn if his friends die-which is dangerously close to how the Sith operate. If that version of Luke succeeded in his mission, chances are he'd fall to the Dark Side after experiencing the anguish of losing his friends, and the galaxy would have to contend with an even more powerful Sith barking orders at them. And that's all in the OT, not the Prequels. The Prequels just unmasked the Jedi Order's flaws for all to see, but the flaw was already there, bubbling underneath in the OT.
 
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When he directed THX 1138, American Graffiti, and Star Wars (1977). He arguably fell off after that considering he stopped directing for 22 years but those 3 movies are perfectly watchable.
The first two Prequels weren't his best work, but they were good enough movies on their own. I'd argue Revenge of the Sith was almost as good as Empire Strikes Back, the one OT movie better than the other two. But I'd take an electric balloon fight between water creatures and robots over whatever the hell the MCU or the Sequels were trying to do.
 
My "grey Jedi" opinions mostly come from the whole Je'daii Order thing, the precursor to the actual Jedi. They'd kick your ass to the moon that best fit your sins if you went either full light or full dark, and only after 10,000 years did the light side cult gain dominance. I don't subscribe to the notion that the dark side is a cancer because of that; it's a natural part of the force. The cancer is the excess, either expressed through turning into a cenobite (the dark side, this sort of cancer is quick and easy) or through sinking into stasis and timidity (the light side, this one usually takes time to metastasize).

Now on the whole balance looks much more like light side Jedi than dark side Sith, and that's because the self-control necessary to engage safely with emotions like rage and hate lends itself to not feeling them in the first place. And at the end of the day, it's -much- safer to just... not, especially as the order evolved out of the Tython system and became a key part of the galactic community. Maybe if they were still cloistered monks that people sometimes came to for advice they'd be able to safely wield both sides of the force equally, but when acting as peacekeepers and diplomats for some shitty star federation they can't afford to spend the time developing that level of self-mastery or risk falling from the increasingly narrow tightrope. This does rob the order of a certain amount of dynamism, but usually that's alright, better than the alternative. They're just not trained to handle that anymore, so they go full retard immediately.

So while the dark side as a concept is a natural part of the force's balance, it tends heavily to the unhealthy extreme. This means that while powers like throwing lightning or choking someone tend to be fueled by dark side energies, they don't have to be, and a lightsider can use them if they're careful. There are no dark or light side powers, just users and uses... but maybe stick to ones more associated with the light, just to be safe. Luke and Katarn can do it, but they're pressure-forged diamonds and you're probably not.
 
Star Wars (1977)
By all accounts this was saved in the editing room.
It's been too long since I've seen the others. In any case, Phantom Menace is still talked about as the epitome of failing to adapt to digital production.

You guys are free to enjoy the way modern Jedi turned out (this conversation was originally just about why I think Andor's off to a good start, which is clearly a matter of subjective preference), but even if you think they're portrayed badly in the prequels "on purpose" that doesn't account for why characters who don't fit that mould or break out of it like Anakin are wooden and goofy. The whole thing is awful performances and it completely undermines that interpretation even if it really was intended.
By all means work that into your headcanon if it helps you still like that stuff, but I prefer the media which keeps well the fuck away from it.
 
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I just think people don't have a leg to stand on if they go from mocking one flawed or even bad item in the franchise and then feverishly defend their own trash and make up excuses for why they need to eat it.

Like yeah, I don't like Episode 2 for example; intentionally wooden acting still makes you intentionally awful, which I find more offensive tbh. But that doesn't mean the cheap piece of shit show starring a worse Kyle Katarn after we know he dies is any better than it actually is too. Especially since Disney has a reverse midas touch with the franchise and will fuck it up inevitably.
 
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I also prefer the Old Republic style Yin and Yang approach.

It makes things more interesting. The Jedi draw their power from the humanisitic, empathtic side of life, Sith power is more that of an animalistic predator.

I feel that this more oriental look fits the setting better than the western "evil and aberration against nature" thing that comes from jerusalem folklore and is more in vogue today.

How horrible is their newest Disney adventure, Endor the prequel?
 
Now that you mention it I think I noticed once that the font makes JEDIS really look like JEWS in the original crawl if you stand way back from the screen. I might have been high.

How horrible is their newest Disney adventure, Endor the prequel?
You'll be sad to hear no weeb stuff but I think it's pretty good so far. Nobody else has watched it.
 
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It's like, if you want solely space heroics or military sci-fi without that pesky cosmic fantasy of Sith and Jedi getting in the way, franchises like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 are right down the hall.
This. There are dozens of proper sci-fi stories that have way more nuanced political underpinnings and less black and white good vs evil morality, which is not realistic at all, but Star Wars at it's best isn't trying to be realistic. It's entertaining. The lore in SW makes just enough sense to not have the audience question what's going on every 5 minutes.
By all accounts this was saved in the editing room.
Ah ok

It's not like the movie was good because of the well structured script by George Lucas that managed to singlehandedly create an entire fictional universe that we're still talking about 50 years later, the great performances from the cast of actors, the perfect film score by John Williams that's one of the best film soundtracks ever written, the production design by Ralph McQuarrie that's filled with so many instantly iconic designs that still hold up today, John Mollo's brilliant costume designs, the innovative special effects from ILM, or Ben Burtt's sound design. Nah they just put a dogshit movie into an editing machine and it came out good because that's how people on the internet told me filmmaking works.

Let me guess, you think George's wife (her name's Marcia btw) edited the entire movie by herself?
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I also prefer the Old Republic style Yin and Yang approach.
From my point of view Yin and Yang implies that they need to co-exist for the force to exist (the sequels think of the force like this too), when the movies make the dark side into a cancer that needs to be wiped out. The whole "balancing of the force" really fucked up how people look at the force and nobody can agree on how it's supposed to be like. That's on George and the EU.

But that doesn't mean the cheap piece of shit show starring a worse Kyle Katarn after we know he dies is any better than it actually is too.
Nah man you don't get it. Andor is different because it's DARK and MATURE and they say the word SHIT which means this show is Star Wars for ADULTS.
 
I also prefer the Old Republic style Yin and Yang approach.

It makes things more interesting. The Jedi draw their power from the humanisitic, empathtic side of life, Sith power is more that of an animalistic predator.

I feel that this more oriental look fits the setting better than the western "evil and aberration against nature" thing that comes from jerusalem folklore and is more in vogue today.

How horrible is their newest Disney adventure, Endor the prequel?
My issue with using Kotor, or any videogame's way of handling the force, is that I'm pretty sure it's all rooted in an excuse to be able to use whatever force powers you want in the game. Like no matter how light-side or dark-side your character is you can use any power from either branch (sans Force Crush and Force Enlightenment). The gameplay doesn't exactly mesh with the story in these cases. Jedi Outcast/Academy is the same, Kyle tells you that no power is inherently good or evil but we all know that it's just really an excuse for you to be able to use Force Lightning and Grip because they're awesome and fun powers.
 
My issue with using Kotor, or any videogame's way of handling the force, is that I'm pretty sure it's all rooted in an excuse to be able to use whatever force powers you want in the game. Like no matter how light-side or dark-side your character is you can use any power from either branch (sans Force Crush and Force Enlightenment). The gameplay doesn't exactly mesh with the story in these cases. Jedi Outcast/Academy is the same, Kyle tells you that no power is inherently good or evil but we all know that it's just really an excuse for you to be able to use Force Lightning and Grip because they're awesome and fun powers.
We did see Luke use Force Choke on those pig-guards in ROTJ, and he's more light-sided than Yoda that he redeemed Darth Vader. So both KOTOR and Jedi Outcast/Academy took it from that. The games are more loyal to what was shown in the film.

The issue they deal with isn't whether or not you can use the Dark Side, it's whether or not you will let the Dark Side rule you. It's the difference between drinking some wine in a party, or becoming an alcoholic. Luke was the former, Vader and Sidious were the latter.

So no, it's not just a matter of video-games, when the films themselves do it, and the films are the highest form of canon.

And it's not just the films and the games, when in the 2003 cartoon, Windu used Force Crush on General Grievous, crippling him and making it easier for Kenobi to disarm him later.
 
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