Can Slavery be Justified?

Gingervitis

Gingervitis

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So prison labor, as we all know, is morally justified. No one but the radical fringes of the left (and the terminally online) would argue otherwise. Their main argument against it is that it’s slavery. While I was skeptical at first, upon looking into it, I’m wondering if maybe it is slavery.

This of course led to the thread’s question. Can other forms of slavery be morally correct? What about other actions that are considered mal in se? I don’t believe so, but I also didn’t think any form of slavery was morally correct before thinking about prison labor.
 
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So prison labor, as we all know, is morally justified. No one but the radical fringes of the left (and the terminally online) would argue otherwise. Their main argument against it is that it’s slavery. While I was skeptical at first, upon looking into it, I’m wondering if maybe it is slavery.
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the main argument against prison labor is that it financially motivates interested parties to use prisons to maintain a uniquely cheap work force. this is one of the forces that bends the cops/courts to prioritize capturing and imprisoning young poor guys. make's u think about how criminality (particularly among young men), lack of education, and the severing of families has become entrenched in black culture and nobody seems to be doing much about fixing that problem. what's that statistic about how likely a black dude is to have served one or more prison sentences by age 30?

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It was a unique evolutionary niche that niggers used to get out of Africa and parasite from a superior culture, it reminds me of how chickens used the fact that they are delicious to make it so that they would never go extinct are sure to proliferate.

Slavery is unironically the best thing that ever happened to blacks, a you're welcome would be nice niggers.
 
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No, not in any way shape or form can slavery be justified.

Prison labour to me counts as slavery unless it's paid at market rate to the inmates, or if it's some form of genuine formal education program such as Fork Lift Training, Welding, etc something that will give a genuine leg up to the inmate to reduce* the risk of them from reoffending, but taking a job doing X for 50p a hour where there is a massive profit margin for the private company your working for it's a form of Slave Labour gussied up just enough for it to mass muster.

Where I wont call prison labour Slavery is things like cleaning the cell's, other parts of the jail and alike a lot of people don't realise it but that sort of thing is essential to reducing not only medical problems inside a jail but also mental health problems and also teaches a skill some (sadly a lot) of inmates lack in there personal life outside of prison, hell even cooking basic cooking can be part of that as you would be shocked at how many people don't know the basics of food preparation any more and rely on precooked pre packed crap that's little more complex than boil water and poor into a cup or stab a few holes in the top put it in the microwave till it goes ping etc.

*= you can never totally remove it but if you give people a skill and a fighting chance at getting a stable life or a way to correct from there mistakes like substance abuse or poverty it really helps.
 
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Slavery is unsustainable for several reasons. For one, the overhead associated with maintaining human livestock is quite massive. Also, if for some reason you decide to end your slavery system, you will be stuck with an orc subrace who have no culture of their own and cannot organically cultivate any sense of community, and you will still be maintaining them indirectly for centuries. So the only winning play with slavery is not to enslave anyone.
 
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Hugger Brother said:
the main argument against prison labor is that it financially motivates interested parties to use prisons to maintain a uniquely cheap work force. this is one of the forces that bends the cops/courts to prioritize capturing and imprisoning young poor guys. make's u think about how criminality (particularly among young men), lack of education, and the severing of families has become entrenched in black culture and nobody seems to be doing much about fixing that problem. what's that statistic about how likely a black dude is to have served one or more prison sentences by age 30?

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Don't forget the "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania several years ago. Basically the judges were sentencing children to for-profit juvenile detention centers for kickbacks. One got 17 years and the other dumbass evidently didn't remember his legal training and took it to court. He got 28 years.

I'm convinced the entire point of the "War on Drugs" was to generate free slave labor. I can't think of many other programs that have failed so utterly but the response was not to take a look at the situation and modify the approach, but to double down on what wasn't working before. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted time on marijuana enforcement and would have gone after the real, dangerous drugs. Of course, that would generate fewer useful slaves.
 
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To answer the OP question, I will define slavery as a condition of ownership over someone else's time and labor (or a proxy thereof), which would include the payment of principal and interest on debts. In this definition, every loan you take out is a slavery contract. The debtor consents to give ownership of some amount of his productivity (time and labor) to the creditor. For it to be justified, it must be be a consensual contract agreed upon between both parties, in which both parties could reasonably be expected to understand the full implication of it. For example, consider my mortgage loan for my property. I consider that a form of slavery which I volunteered to participate in. I think it's justified under this circumstance.

Chattel slavery actively enforced by direct violence against the slave is not justified because it has a dysgenic effect on the population. Bringing alien ethnic groups into a population in great numbers in order to drive down the price of labor is never justified, under any circumstances.

I'd like to see some numbers on just how many manhours of prison labor are spent each year and in the production of what. How many for-profit prisons are there, really? I am skeptical that a nation-wide pervasive industry of slave labor which conspires to keep people locked up for cheap labor exists. I'd believe it if I had some evidence. Immigrant labor is just so much easier and simpler. How productive can the highest time preference, lowest IQ mutts in the country really be?
 
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It doesn't need any moral justifications because it's a common occurrence to this very day, when one group is much more powerful than another and projects its power, it tends to enslave the opponents and profit off their labor. This can take many forms.
Just painting it as evil doesn't do shit, for the same reason painting war as evil doesn't do shit, these things keep on happening every single time there's a power imbalance and a conflict of interests.
 
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Slavery destroyed the Roman Empire because it was more profitable to run big plantation farms and exempt yourself from direct taxes and your slaves from military service than contribute to the state. Slavery (and pseudo-slavery like the shit labor conditions the Spanish had Indians do) is part of why Latin America is poor because it kept blacks and mulattoes and Indians dumb and stupid meaning they had no human capital unlike the US with all its literate whites. Slavery is part of why Africa is poor since the dominant African economic system was enslaving people to sell to Arabs and whites to buy guns to enslave more people. Slavery destroyed the South because centering your economy on rich white people growing cotton and letting them give shit wages to poor whites is inherently destructive.

Is that enough examples for you? Slavery is wrong because it destroys nations, and by nations I don't mean the state, I mean the people in them too. If we outlawed slavery in 1776 and picked our own cotton, modern America would be a far better place.

Prison labor I don't really think can be justified either unless you pay them minimum wage (but prisoners would have to use that minimum wage to pay debts, pay child support, pay restitution to victims, etc.). It's still driving down the price of labor and denying jobs that could be given to free men and arguably more immoral since Rastus was a good boi dragged in chains from Africa but his descendent DaQuandro is a drug-dealing rapist. I'd rather the government pay subsidies to unprofitable industries to keep good people employed than have the government use prison labor, although I guess in some cases it's good to keep prisoners occupied and train them on jobs to work.
 
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"I need to get shit done and I don't want to do it myself" is a justification, and if you dehumanize a group sufficiently enough then the moral objections would be kept to a minimum.
 
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God of Nothing said:
But I acknowledge them as a human being I own with their own thoughts and feelings.
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So we're talking like a slave lottery here where you are randomly selected to be a slave regardless of race/ethnicity/gender/financial status etc etc?
 
No in almost all cases. One case where I could see something similar to slavery being the least bad option is where you have a situation where you have a limited quantity of people, supplies, and equipment, and your chances of remaining operational at a good level goes down significantly with each person not carrying their weight. An example is a south pole base where you are having equipment failures, have no chance of escape or resupply, and many of your people are injured/sick, refusing to work, or both.
 
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