War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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@Happy Fish

To outlast Putin's regime, as one of the possibilities. It's highly unlikely that war would continue with Putin out of the picture. Time is not on his side, I believe I have explained why previously.
Ukraine, on the other hand, has adapted to this war. So far everything indicates that they have the will to see this through, at the very least if international support doesn't falter and they have the material means to continue. Putin might be facing a revolution/coup if he keeps acting all retarded and making everyone's lives in Russia miserable, meanwhile Zelensky only seems to grow in popularity among his people, with Ukrainian national identity solidified by the external, existential threat. They've seen what "Russian world" is like and what awaits them if they let Russian horde have its way.
If that is really where your guys' mind is then I really hope that you are able to do it without getting a world/nuclear war started. I think you are more than a little optimistic in terms of Russia's unrest but even if you are right this is still a very dangerous game of chicken and I hope the zealots this war has produced don't get us all killed if Putin's exit plan becomes zero point zero minutes to midnight..

From the start of this I've tried to maintain empathy for the people actually fighting as all I can do is complain about the bigger picture, but watching someone who is clearly for Ukraine get attacked for proposing peace is simply depressing. Even if the situation is as cheery for Ukraine as the propaganda wants us to believe the continuation of this war is not going to be good for anyone. Part of me hopes Putin does just decide to cut his losses just for the sake of less lives lost, but I have serious doubts that will happen as it would be a catastrophic loss for them to just walk away from.

something something cooler heads.
 
something something cooler heads.
Oh please. If there were cooler heads in this war, there would be no war. Putin would just make NATO look stupid by not going to war even though he looks like he's going to. That would've been a great diplomatic victory for Russia and a great way to make NATO look redundant. Instead, NATO has secured its reason to exist for the next 150 years or more, and a whole generation will now grow up hating Russia. Even IN Russia.

So Russia has had to result to hunting down conscripts with armed recruiters and police to force them into service? Nice to see Stalin's "Not One Step Back" policy is still alive and well 80 years later. You know your military action is going well and has the confidence of the people when you have to conscript soldiers at literal gunpoint and hundreds of thousands of military-aged men are running like their hair is on fire and their ass is catching.
And given that Russia already has a population problem, with the natives not having a high replacement rate and the women going for abortions as if they were grocery shopping, this will cause more instability in Russia that it won't be able to sustain a war effort, let alone a workable state.

Fun thing about the T-62 antiques that Russia is being forced to pull out of storage: they're vulnerable to RPG-7 warheads, and not even the newer, fancier tandem shaped charge warheads designed to go against more modern armor. The Ukranians won't even need Javelins to pop the turrets off those.

I made a joke about the Rooskies pulling T-34s out of museums and parade duty once they start losing T-62s, but if they're having to pull WWII anti-aircraft guns to put into service then it might not actually be a joke.
Hence why this whole mobilization is a joke; even if it's a full mobilization instead of a partial one, all they do is toss old-ass tanks that the other side can easily destroy, along with conscripts who are poorly trained, poorly equipped, and DON'T WANT TO BE THERE. People keep saying that Russia can strike back and regain turf, but outside of tactical nukes, I don't see it. The real soldiers all got wiped out in the previous months of the war, all they can do now is toss mothballed tanks and low-quality conscripts. This is cartoon villain levels of incompetent.

Russia has surpassed Europe in Islam-related terrorist killings. (The source is thereligionofpeace.com which probably overstates the European number, if anything)
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They laugh at the US for Afghanistan. They laugh at the West for Diversity and Inclusion. Then they go to war against an Orthodox Christian nation and still get Allahu Ackbar'd, It's too fucking funny.
Vatniks have never been known for being consistent. They whine about fictional Nazis when the enemy they whine about is led by a Jew and supported by Jews. They whine about LGBT in the West while Russia's army is full of sodomy. They used to talk about how Russia is a strong Orthodox Christian nation when Russia was using Muslim mercenaries to destroy another Orthodox Christian nation. It'd be funny if it didn't involve people suffering and dying on both sides for some dipshit's ego.
 
If that is really where your guys' mind is then I really hope that you are able to do it without getting a world/nuclear war started. I think you are more than a little optimistic in terms of Russia's unrest but even if you are right this is still a very dangerous game of chicken and I hope the zealots this war has produced don't get us all killed if Putin's exit plan becomes zero point zero minutes to midnight..

From the start of this I've tried to maintain empathy for the people actually fighting as all I can do is complain about the bigger picture, but watching someone who is clearly for Ukraine get attacked for proposing peace is simply depressing. Even if the situation is as cheery for Ukraine as the propaganda wants us to believe the continuation of this war is not going to be good for anyone. Part of me hopes Putin does just decide to cut his losses just for the sake of less lives lost, but I have serious doubts that will happen as it would be a catastrophic loss for them to just walk away from.

something something cooler heads.
After all that happened it would be stupid to trust Russia to honor hypothetical peace agreement. Anything that isn't their complete withdrawal would be a temporary solution at best, just a breather for them to rebuild and try again later. Considering that one of their demands is Ukraine's "neutrality" and inability to join NATO, which would obviously leave them vulnerable to further aggression from Russia, since only Article 5 would make them reconsider. That's the whole point, it's so they could threaten neighbors with force - they can't threaten NATO itself, not in any real capacity besides shit talking.
You can just listen to Russian talking heads and Putin himself if you want to know why, because their mask slipped long ago. It was never about just Donbas or muh poor Russian minority.

Nukes don't concern me that much. I still firmly believe that no one is that retarded. And even if Putin completely loses it, chain of command won't let him go through with it.
It's pointless to invoke "cooler heads" when you've got a mongoloid retard waging war of conquest in Europe in 21st century, appeasing him would just lead to more of the same. Besides, how the hell is it okay to sacrifice an entire nation for that purpose? Russia isn't entitled to the "sphere of influence", and Putin can very much go fuck himself with such demands. It's none of his business what other countries do within their borders, and if he's so concerned there's always room for negotiations. War should be the very last option when all else fails. He made this mess, and all the blood spilled in this conflict starting from 2014 is on his hands.
Motherfucker wanted to do a show of force and failed. Peace was basically never an option.

And all this crap about NATO, it was neutral to Russia in the first place, it exists for mutual protection of its members so that shit like this doesn't happen to them. Putin just proved them right and reassured their mission.

TL;DR: There can be no compromise with bad faith actors such as Russia, not after everything that happened. Ukraine has no reasons to concede. Nuclear escalation is highly unlikely.
This war ends with one of the governments crumbling, and I don't think it's going to be Ukraine's.
 
Russia has surpassed Europe in Islam-related terrorist killings. (The source is thereligionofpeace.com which probably overstates the European number, if anything)
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They laugh at the US for Afghanistan. They laugh at the West for Diversity and Inclusion. Then they go to war against an Orthodox Christian nation and still get Allahu Ackbar'd, It's too fucking funny.
Vatnik faggots always claims Russia's muslims are based goodguy muslims despite the Russian muslims being inbred yokels with zero redeeming qualities. If anything Russian Muslims are like the US's BLM protestors of peace, just a little more explodey. I do find that any Russian I talk to that talks shit on these faggots to be of a based nature.
 
Pretty sure Ukraine is very interested, considering they've never made motion to recognize its loss
Boy,

it is impossible to recognize a territory loss in war-like event in this days. Legally impossible.

If that is really where your guys' mind is then I really hope that you are able to do it without getting a world/nuclear war started.
Russia:

- they cannot conduct a nuclear test that they announced,
- they have no options to defend itself from any modern rocket,
- they have just two major cities and few big cities.

NATO:

- they have some still working nuclear bombs,
- they have options to at least partially defend against rocket attacks,
- the whole aliance have multiple unreachable for Russia targets.

I'm pretty sure that Russia should be te one who is shitting pants in case of nuclear war. So, maybye they shold surrender before evaporation of Moscow?

Clearly Russia does not see the situation as illegal as there is war

No one gives a fuck what is in mind of ruskies.

Everything about their tactics suggested they were avoiding civilian targets.

No, from day one they are killing civilians just because their are Ukrainians. First
targets was downtowns of major cities.

Stop listening to ruskies lies. Their never was avoiding civilian targets.

So then what is the exit strategy?

To kill so many ruskies and to destroy their possibilites of rebuilding own stock of weapons. From few weeks the killratio is going to the right place (more ruskies killed that Ukrainians - last rocketing of cities caused deaths only of dozens, not hundreds... and on frontline it is may worse for ruskies, due to using non-combat persons in combat units).

The second part is going much better: ruskies aren't cleaning T-62 because they like them, but because they have no production of modern equpiment due to sanctions.

I don't see Ukraine as benefiting from allowing themselves to fight a many years long war with anyone.

If we look at ukrainian units on frontline their probably see some kind of benefit, e.g. not being killed by genocidal monkeys from russia.

but at least with a proposal like Musk's

That whitout any real proposition, right?

like Musk's you have them agreeing to stand by for a (hopefully) fair election that the world will be watching and with neutrality, Russia loses their excuse of NATO encroachment and Ukraine has *more* control over their own politics as they aren't playing pawn for Russia or any foreign organization.

You are naive, right?

Ruskies didn't need any excuse to make an invasion. Their point was never to stop NATO enlargement. Their aim is to puppet Ukraine.

Free and uncorupted elections in russia aren't possible. Last free and uncorupted (in opinion of civilized world, in ruskies opinion any election where they candidate didn't won is corupted, so as I said before: stop taking ruskies lies as true) in Ukraine have obvious result: to go into integration path with wealthy West, not with shitholes like russia.

Damn this thread is just full of people who fell asleep during their WWII history.

Yes, and they didn't see obvious similarities between modern russia and Soviet Union from 1939 to 1941: a aggresive ally of naaaazi.
 
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Calling for a diplomatic solution to prevent further bloodshed is not siding with Russia unless Ukraine really is in it to start thermonuclear war, which the way some of you act wouldn't really surprise me. His proposition was completely reasonable unless you either aren't confident in UN oversight of the election (I wouldn't be) or you simply aren't confident that the masses in Ukraine would vote Russia out, which would actually be hilarious reading some of your reactions if they didn't.

His proposal was reasonable if you completely forget that Russia has spent the past decade supporting separatists that have driven out anyone who isn't at least a silent moderate. And that's provided you forget they have been playing influence fuck-fuck games there ever since the USSR imploded. And that's provided you forget that the USSR was unilaterally displacing populations its conquered territories to break their will and grind them down into good communist Russians. And faggots today forget that the USSR didn't allow free internal movement. You couldn't visit grandma in the next Oblast if you didn't have an internal passport.

Its also not that the vote is being put to whole of Ukraine. It is just in these areas Russia has been fucking around with for past century.

This is like if came to your town, and over the past decade burned down the houses on three streets in your neighborhood, had the bank red-line your town so that no one except me could get loans to buy houses, cut utilities, and built a few apartment buildings I staffed with my cronies and then said "Ok, lets have a vote on if this neighborhood should leave and join the other town".

And given the violence, the separatists would probably attack anyone who campaigned for a "stay" campaign, and be protected by the Russians because that's how Slav politics do.

So if you know nothing about the region or how we got here "Just have a UN observed election" is an bog-standard ignorant peacenik faux-reasonable position, but not malicious.

Really though, Musk's big fuck up was calling Crimea part of Russia.
Setting aside the validity of Russian claims, just straight giving Crimea to Russia would be legitimizing Russia expanding its borders via military invasion of a country not posing any threat.
This is why Musk is being told to Fuck Off.
 
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This is like the third one in the past few weeks, what the fuck is going on? Either pilots are having too much vodka or these planes are just that old and ill-maintained. Two previous crashes of Su-34 I suspected to be training-related.

Russia has to be among leading armies in the world... when it comes to casualties in peace time.
 
This is like the third one in the past few weeks, what the fuck is going on? Either pilots are having too much vodka or these planes are just that old and ill-maintained. Two previous crashes of Su-34 I suspected to be training-related.

Russia has to be among leading armies in the world... when it comes to casualties in peace time.
They are listing this one as training related. There is a non-zero chance that got Yooked and couldn't quite make it back to base, but still too early for anything other than the usual baseless speculation.

I made a joke about the Rooskies pulling T-34s out of museums and parade duty once they start losing T-62s, but if they're having to pull WWII anti-aircraft guns to put into service then it might not actually be a joke.

TBF they are more like Korean War guns. They were built like modern guns - they have a FCC that was replaced in the soviet days with a more modern example. After that, it just comes down how good of a radar you are connected to, and the ability of the teams to keep them fed & firing. This is be like making fun of the US for equipping troops with guns from WWI when they mount a Ma Deuce on a MRAP, or the Canadians or very literally raiding base museums in the 90s for WWII Bofors for their auxiliary vessels.

Or I guess would be like that except, unlike the M2 & Bofors, those guns have several drawbacks that go beyond just "not a missile" when used in an anti-air capacity. They have too short of an effective range to be good against anything other than Helicopters... except the shells are considered insufficient caliber for modern attack helicopters.
In a modern battle space, even a short-range AA gun COULD be very effective against jets in the current Ukraine theater because of the need for very low altitude operations to avoid SAMs, but again the shells are likely too small to be real deterrent.

The low firepower is generally resolved by just deploying vast quantities - setting them up in batteries of 36 or more, which you need to deploy in range of a FCR. Which would just make them huge targets for artillery.

Its a servicable gun that fires. Ukraine is probably using them in their most effective way in the Ukraine battlespace which is light field artillery. The fact that the Global Super Power of the Russian Federation is busting them out is a clear sign they don't have anything better.
 
This is be like making fun of the US for equipping troops with guns from WWI when they mount a Ma Deuce on a MRAP, or the Canadians or very literally raiding base museums in the 90s for WWII Bofors for their auxiliary vessels.
What the fuck is going on in Canada they have to raid museums in peacetime to equip their ships?

Also, the Ma Deuce is in a category of its own because it never left production or service, and has been in continual issue ever since adoption. The US running out of those would be like Russia running out of DShK's... which would be a very clear sign shit's fucked over there.
 
After all that happened it would be stupid to trust Russia to honor hypothetical peace agreement. Anything that isn't their complete withdrawal would be a temporary solution at best, just a breather for them to rebuild and try again later. Considering that one of their demands is Ukraine's "neutrality" and inability to join NATO, which would obviously leave them vulnerable to further aggression from Russia, since only Article 5 would make them reconsider. That's the whole point, it's so they could threaten neighbors with force - they can't threaten NATO itself, not in any real capacity besides shit talking.
You can just listen to Russian talking heads and Putin himself if you want to know why, because their mask slipped long ago. It was never about just Donbas or muh poor Russian minority.

Nukes don't concern me that much. I still firmly believe that no one is that retarded. And even if Putin completely loses it, chain of command won't let him go through with it.
It's pointless to invoke "cooler heads" when you've got a mongoloid retard waging war of conquest in Europe in 21st century, appeasing him would just lead to more of the same. Besides, how the hell is it okay to sacrifice an entire nation for that purpose? Russia isn't entitled to the "sphere of influence", and Putin can very much go fuck himself with such demands. It's none of his business what other countries do within their borders, and if he's so concerned there's always room for negotiations. War should be the very last option when all else fails. He made this mess, and all the blood spilled in this conflict starting from 2014 is on his hands.
Motherfucker wanted to do a show of force and failed. Peace was basically never an option.

And all this crap about NATO, it was neutral to Russia in the first place, it exists for mutual protection of its members so that shit like this doesn't happen to them. Putin just proved them right and reassured their mission.

TL;DR: There can be no compromise with bad faith actors such as Russia, not after everything that happened. Ukraine has no reasons to concede. Nuclear escalation is highly unlikely.
This war ends with one of the governments crumbling, and I don't think it's going to be Ukraine's.
Then we fundamentally disagree except on the bit about NATO almost being proven redundant. There is nothing to be gained from prolonging bloodshed and shrugging off the destructive power of Russia is foolhardy, though I certainly understand the temptation since their tech has proven to be stuck in the past.
Ruskies didn't need any excuse to make an invasion. Their point was never to stop NATO enlargement. Their aim is to puppet Ukraine.
Its funny you think Ukraine itself is that important. The land isn't that important to East or West. This is all an ideological pissing contest at that level.
 
This is like the third one in the past few weeks, what the fuck is going on?
Sanctions and migration of qualified staff able to maintain them.
I made a joke about the Rooskies pulling T-34s out of museums and parade duty once they start losing T-62s
They have very small number of T-34 in any shape. AFAIR they was forced to buy some from Laos for use on military parade.

In 2014 or 2015 one of separatists "republics" used (or just take from historic exhibition) another tank from WWII, KV-2 or IS-something, but that was more like propaganda than frontline battle.

This is all an ideological pissing contest at that level.
:story:

My sweet, ideology or religion are only a thing to make citizens ready to die for the glory of homeland or something like that. It is alwats about money and business.

Rodnovery alkafirs (check the "rodnovery") on the field probably belive in their bullshit when their get killed by bullets, but the one that founded their equipment and is sending them to death is a cynical bastard - he must be, because to make a career in eastern european shithole it is the best and only option. Maybye some idiots are going to their death with mind full of shit about "if we lose this war, the West will turn us LGBT" but also - Putin probably don't give a fuck about faith, ideology or anything like that.
 
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What the fuck is going on in Canada they have to raid museums in peacetime to equip their ships?

Also, the Ma Deuce is in a category of its own because it never left production or service, and has been in continual issue ever since adoption. The US running out of those would be like Russia running out of DShK's... which would be a very clear sign shit's fucked over there.

tl;dr Canuck Coast Guard needed something with more punch than a .50, dusted off WWII stock (some of which has been used for display) to mount until they found something better. Budget waffling saw them used until 2014 when they got replaced by 30mm rapid-fire cannon.

Looks like I edited that out of my post:
That is correct: While the DESIGN of the M2 goes back to WWI, there has been an non-interrupted stream of new parts and new guns since its adoption. Though I do know that some GWOT M2s would have parts that had 1940s date stamps.
I'm not a soviet arms procurer, but it looks like S-60 systems haven't been manufactured since the 80s, and only barrels and limited spare parts (primarily for vehicle mounted versions) have been produced since then. (They got a brief revival in the 70s due to NVA's success in using them for air defense at low altitude where the SAMs of the era struggled. Iraq also used them in Iran-Iraq)

Anyway, point still stands that its really embarrassing to have to wheel a 1950s anti-air gun to the front because it means you don't have anything better. But keep in mind its a very Russia solution: it works (it works like shit, but it WORKS), and still lobs explosive shells a good way, and they'll kill you if they hit you. Syria has been using their cold-war stock as light artillery, and its better than no artillery.
 
Then we fundamentally disagree except on the bit about NATO almost being proven redundant. There is nothing to be gained from prolonging bloodshed and shrugging off the destructive power of Russia is foolhardy, though I certainly understand the temptation since their tech has proven to be stuck in the past.
You in 1776: "Why do you damn colonists keep fighting the British like this? There's no excuse for prolonging the bloodshed!" Its hard not to feel sympathy for Ukraine given they're doing their best to escape the Muscovite Yoke.

Now for some actual content:
1666043179094.png
I despise Ukrainians, why? They are without gas, electricity, during the war, their roads are repaired in a day?! In our city without rockets, there are many such pits and they have not been repaired for 5-7 years. Our pits are covered with a bucket of crushed stone, and here overnight the Ukrainians repaired the road. Why? Why do Ukrainian beggars do everything for people, but we have a lot of resources, and the people live in poverty and starve? I feel anger and resentment!
TL;DR if you're mobilized, you're fucked.

Meanwhile, in Svatove:
https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1581957061914824704?s=46&t=O3-vu6X6iQkkvSmRoPVLUA
Svatove axis update. I updated the mapstyle, added shelling which is reported in Berestove, Petropavlivka, Pershotravneve,Hrekivka and Novoyehorivka. Also added a scale. Raihodorodka, Kovalivka & Novodyane are considered given daily/repetative shelling in the villages.
1666043477344.png

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1582022724494725120
Families of those mobilized in #Yakutia will be helped with cabbage, onions, and carrots. However, this "action of generosity" is valid only in October and only on a one-time basis. It is not expected that the families will receive cash payments.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582055936231104512?s=20&t=XR7qkOIOt3C1kEzUQIKK-Q
Kreminna - Bakhmut AFU repulsed attacks in the are of Torske and Spirne north of Bakhmut, and in the area close to Bakhmut the AFU repulsed attacks in the Bakhmut, Soledar and Bakhmutske direction.
1666043799887.png

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582055943117758466?s=20&t=XR7qkOIOt3C1kEzUQIKK-Q
Donetsk RuAF attacked in the area of Nevel's'ke, Krasnohorivka, Mar'inka, Pobjeda, Novomykhailivka and Vodiane. These attacks were not successful.
1666043865141.png

https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...not-stopping-us-himars-in-ukraine-2022-10?amp
Won't post the article because its big and has lots of images, but TL;DR: The Russians are claiming we're cheating by having our missiles change course mid-flight to make counter-battery impossible. The US Army's response: "The missile attains the ballistic trajectory it's assigned to reach the target." Which is a vague statement that neither confirms nor denies the Russian claims...

https://eurasiantimes.com/nasams-are-on-their-way-to-ukraine-can-russia-counter/
Another big article. TL;DR we're shipping Ukraine SAM systems that can receive a designated target from something like AWACS, no need for vulnerable land-based radar sets.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/15/...ng-russia-weapons-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html
Considering Iranian drones have been shot down, talk about a nice stinker of a lie. And naturally Israel is stepping up its aid to Ukraine in response, as if this wasn't enough of a proxy war already.
 
What's Musk's problem?
If he wants to get paid for his product, fine, arrange a payment deal, it's not like Ukraine doesn't have the cash for it.
But what the hell is this internet stutter bullshit, right after you basically told the winning side to give up and submit to the enemy whose ass you're kicking?
Think the problem is Musk was getting paid for the service, but operational costs for the company were higher than he liked so he figured he could pressure the US government to pay more for it.
 

Sweden pulls out of the investigation. Denmark and Germany complete their investigation, and don't want to identify the people responsible.

A German minister, in a later interview, admits to knowing exactly who it was citing national security for not giving the information.

If it was Russia they would have sprayed that shit all over every news channel available, all day every day.

Still think it was the Russians.... Congratulations, you're a fucking retard.
 

Sweden pulls out of the investigation. Denmark and Germany complete their investigation, and don't want to identify the people responsible.

A German minister, in a later interview, admits to knowing exactly who it was citing national security for not giving the information.

If it was Russia they would have sprayed that shit all over every news channel available, all day every day.

Still think it was the Russians.... Congratulations, you're a fucking retard.
You're wrong on the very first point. The article [Archive] says that Sweden is investigating and collaborating - just that their investigation is technically distinct.
In Sweden, the investigation is being led by the country’s counterintelligence service. In Denmark and Germany, the police and those countries’ navies are involved in the probes. For administrative reasons regulating interagency intelligence sharing, Sweden isn’t conducting a joint investigation with its two neighbors,
They also say they believe it's Russia, but they can't prove it.
German investigators haven’t been able definitively to link the suspected sabotage to any one actor, but some German officials say they are working under the assumption that Russia was behind the blasts.
So where's this "knowing who it was, and it's not Russia"?

I do not have a claim as to who did it, but this is a shit article to cite. You're completely misrepresenting the contents too, the article is pointing fingers at Russia.
 
You're wrong on the very first point. The article [Archive] says that Sweden is investigating and collaborating - just that their investigation is technically distinct.

They also say they believe it's Russia, but they can't prove it.

So where's this "knowing who it was, and it's not Russia"?

I do not have a claim as to who did it, but this is a shit article to cite. You're completely misrepresenting the contents too, the article is pointing fingers at Russia.
Sorry, they pulled out of the *joint* investigation.

And because you can't read:

"German officials say they are working under the *assumption that Russia was behind* the blasts."

So they *assumed* guilt on behalf of the Russians and the results of the investigation show that it wasn't them.

You're also wrong about who the article is pointing fingers at, it's not pointing them at anyone.

As said before, considering the bais going into the investigation, if it was conclusively the Russians you'd be hearing about it for months.

*Edit*
It's not on the Russians to prove their innocence, it's on Germany, Sweden and Denmark to prove their guilt.
They can't prove it, so it wasn't Russia.

Yes, because Sweden is beholden to US interests and wouldn't proudly announce it was us in order to inflate their Nordic egos. Not like they haven't been up to their neck in maritime fuckery before:

Yeah.....or the new agreement between them and Sweden's pending entry into NATO has nothing to do with it.
 
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