War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Nope, learn to read, Ukraine started being hostile with the people of their eastern territory when they manifested disagreement post-Euromaidan. Because guess what, denying Russian ethnics from practicing their native language will have political consequences.
Consequences that escalated from the regime unwillingness to negotiate for a peaceful resolution. And mind you, of course you ignored what I posted earlier. Because you have absolutely no argument against it:
Oh no... How inconvenient! Let me just ignore that because it doesn't fit my dimwit narrative...
>dude some burger politicians walked around in kyiv once!
>and get this man, they even TALKED to people!
>and on top of that, they even made PHONE CALLS!! can you believe it?!
>this is outrageous! we must invade immediately!
>only total war can save us from the mortal danger that is victoria nuland!

do you even listen to yourself
 
To be fair, it was pretty smart of them to just let the US spend all the money building up its military to defend things in Europe.

For Germany it probably makes the most sense to them to just not give a shit and hope no one complains too much. It's probably why people felt they needed to blow up Nord Stream, since the option of paying out more cash to Russia is just that tempting to the Germans who obviously aren't viewing this as a team effort.
>Germans
>Team effort
The last time the Germans participated in a European team effort the funny moustache man had his troops executing anyone who disagreed with Germany being in a leadership position. To quote said funny moustache man, in all of his peak German autism, "Germany will either be a world power or will not be at all". And so because the Germans are a bunch of pouty, temperamental autistics, Germany will either lead the EU and its response to Ukraine completely and totally, or it won't participate at all. And we all know just how keen the Germans are when it comes to doing anything to upset Russia. Fortunately so is the rest of Europe, and they're bound and determined to do what it takes to keep the Russian bear caged, never mind what Germany wants.

(Okay, that came out a lot more autistic and convoluted than I was intending.)
 
What coup? You mean the civilian protesters who made the corrupt Putin shill shit himself and run to Russia when they got sick of his shit? exactly like the shiftless faggot president of afghanistan did when the same thing happened to him?

That link, it's clickable. 2014 coup was funded by US State Department and fomented by the CIA. The transcripts of the call are right there for you.
 
That link, it's clickable. 2014 coup was funded by US State Department and fomented by the CIA. The transcripts of the call are right there for you.
Literally all that transcript says is that the USA was talking to the opposition leaders trying to set something up between them, plus they wanted to bring in... the UN of all people, because the UN is notoriously friendly towards the USA and its ambitions, after all.

But hey, its not like the transcript mentions the fear of Russia getting involved behind-the-scenes to torpedo any deals, or that the Russians have any clean hands because this was clearly accessed by them via espionage.

So, my own question for you: why are the Russians spying on US diplomatic phone calls in what is ostensibly a neutral third country? They clearly had to have some foreign intelligence presence there actively geared towards infiltrating US activities to be able to provide this info.

Fortunately, the BBC provides some context you may have missed:
  • Jonathan Marcus: The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs.

  • Jonathan Marcus: Overall this is a damaging episode between Washington and Moscow. Nobody really emerges with any credit. The US is clearly much more involved in trying to broker a deal in Ukraine than it publicly lets on. There is some embarrassment too for the Americans given the ease with which their communications were hacked. But is the interception and leaking of communications really the way Russia wants to conduct its foreign policy ? Goodness - after Wikileaks, Edward Snowden and the like could the Russian government be joining the radical apostles of open government? I doubt it. Though given some of the comments from Vladimir Putin's adviser on Ukraine Sergei Glazyev - for example his interview with the Kommersant-Ukraine newspaper the other day - you don't need your own listening station to be clear about Russia's intentions. Russia he said "must interfere in Ukraine" and the authorities there should use force against the demonstrators.

Emphasis mine for the important parts you should focus on.
 
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Poll came out about how Americans are feeling about supporting Ukraine. It's a little noteworthy that half of Republicans want to continue aid to Ukraine for as long as it takes even at the cost of Americans standard of living as far as food and gas costs (50% support vs 46% oppose). So support is still fairly popular with Republicans.

Putin's fuckup has saved Biden and Maduro's political careers.

Support is high because Ukraine is winning. If Russia manages to find its own ass, and both hands are searching, that support will start evaporating.
 
Let me get out the red string and push pin for a minute

Iranian one-way drones are about the size of a Cessna. There has been some forensics done on the Iranian drones in Ukraine, and its been discovered several of them have Rotax small-aircraft engines in them, with serial numbers that trace to a wave of thefts in the UK


Conclusion: Iran seems to lack the ability to manufacture the engines that power its suicide drones.
 
Putin's fuckup has saved Biden and Maduro's political careers.
I think its a little too early to say that.
In order for this to save Biden's career (not that he had much of a future at this point anyways), it depends entirely on the success the Dems and MSM will have in framing the economic turmoil as Russia's fault and not the result of Coronapanic lockdowns and MONEY PRINTER GO BRRRR!!! policies.

Given that most sources seem to indicate that the majority of Americans support giving aid to Ukraine yet trust in the MSM is at an all-time low, it would seem that the support for Ukraine is currently NOT causal with economic issues - which doesn't bode well for Dems at midterms.
 
I think its a little too early to say that.
In order for this to save Biden's career (not that he had much of a future at this point anyways), it depends entirely on the success the Dems and MSM will have in framing the economic turmoil as Russia's fault and not the result of Coronapanic lockdowns and MONEY PRINTER GO BRRRR!!! policies.

Given that most sources seem to indicate that the majority of Americans support giving aid to Ukraine yet trust in the MSM is at an all-time low, it would seem that the support for Ukraine is currently NOT causal with economic issues - which doesn't bode well for Dems at midterms.

Let me clarify, because that was a solid point but was hoping to get away with a conveying it as a low-effort shit post. But no.

When I say their political careers were saved, I mean in a comparative sense.

Maduro is not going to get revolutioned now that he's allowed to ship oil again. Venezuela will continue to crumble, Maduro will continue to get sidelined and become increasingly dependent on other power players to maintain his seat at the top. So when I say saved I mean he will continue avoid being Churro'd and get to keep driving the bus, not that his political stock is rising.

The economy was already starting to shit itself before Russia decided to pop things off, and it was overdue. Being able to blame the economy on Russia (sort of like what Putin is doing in reverse) is a god send to the Dems. People will endure hard times if you give them a reason. Dems are going to routed in Midterms, they always were.
So when I say Biden's political career was saved I mean the 2023 congress "will merely flip red" and not "turn red with a veto-proof majority". I also mean "Its POSSIBLE Biden could be reelected in 2024" vs "GOP could run Yeb and have the reddest map since Nixon".
 
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Should probably discuss some recent news that we've missed in the downtime

Ukraine strikes the black fleet with sea based drones.
No word on the severity of the damage, but it appears that at least one Admiral Grigorovich class frigate was struck.

Battle for Bakhmut continues, with Russia making increasingly large attacks. (unreliable) loss reports have it as one of largest losses of troops.

Edit: forgot another
In response to the strikes on the black sea fleet, russia pulls out of the grain protection deal. Looks to be continuing anyways, with Turkey looking to aid.
 
Battle for Bakhmut continues, with Russia making increasingly large attacks. (unreliable) loss reports have it as one of largest losses of troops.
well those are possible, but those imply that ukraine lost atleast 3 times as much if not more. they had to recall their best weapons from the front because germany "cant" delivery ammo or spareparts for pzh2000 or gepards. the Pzh 2000 was the key to their whole offensive, giving them a weapon that can take out russian artillery without beeing in danger while the gepard has turned into a fucking meatgrinder with alot of videos of it just obliterating russian formations by putting down massive amount of deadly fire in the blink of an eye(AA guns have always been deadly as hell).
 
That news about American-trained Afghan Commandos joining the fight on Russia's side had me a little concerned:


But then again, I remembered that the VDV and the Spetsnaz already got their cans kicked in this war early on.

So are foreign commandos from a defeated army really going to cut it where elite, homegrown Russian units like the VDV and the Spetsnaz failed?

Also, those commandos were trained to fight against Taliban forces mainly using outdated weapons and tech. Are they going to be a match for Ukrainians using the latest in Uncle Sam's weapons closet?

If those commandos had sense, they'd take the offer, charge right into Ukrainian lines, surrender, defect, and help the Ukies win the war. Then they can go to DC and sue Biden for leaving them to die back in Afghanistan.
 
NbcNews:

Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy in June phone call when Ukrainian leader asked for more aid​

Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in military assistance when the Ukrainian president started listing all the additional help he needed.

It’s become routine since Russia invaded Ukraine: President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speak by phone whenever the U.S. announces a new package of military assistance for Kyiv.

But a phone call between the two leaders in June played out differently from previous ones, according to four people familiar with the call. Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in U.S. military assistance for Ukraine when Zelenskyy started listing all the additional help he needed and wasn’t getting. Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his administration and the U.S. military were working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.

Administration officials said Biden and Zelenskyy’s relationship has only improved since the June phone call, after which Zelenskyy made a statement praising the U.S. for its generous assistance. But the clash reflects Biden’s early awareness that both congressional and public support for sending billions of dollars to Ukraine could begin to fade. That moment has arrived just as the president prepares to ask Congress to greenlight even more money for Ukraine.

Biden now faces resistance from some Republicans and Democrats that wasn’t present when Congress approved previous Ukraine funds. The White House has discussed asking Congress for billions of dollars during the lame-duck legislative session after the midterm elections.

The White House hasn’t specified an amount publicly. Lawmakers and Ukraine lobbyists hope for $40 billion to $60 billion, and some officials familiar with the discussions expect the number to be roughly $50 billion.

A source familiar with the conversation said that Biden was direct with Zelenskyy about handling the issues in the appropriate military channels but that the exchange wasn’t heated or angry.

A spokesperson for the National Security Council declined to comment on the story.

A spokesperson for Zelenskyy didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Top U.S. officials warn there are no signs the war is ending any time soon.

Before the June 15 phone call, the president’s frustrations with Zelenskyy had been building for weeks, three people familiar with the call said. Biden and some of his top aides felt that the administration was doing as much as it could as quickly as it could but that Zelenskyy continued to focus publicly on only what wasn’t being done.


From Zelenskyy’s perspective — as well as that of some Eastern European governments and U.S. lawmakers from both parties — there has been repeated frustration that the Biden White House moves too slowly on weapons requests, initially hesitating to approve certain capabilities Ukraine requested most urgently, only to relent weeks or months later under pressure, according to two sources familiar with the Ukraine government’s view, congressional aides and two European officials.

After the pushback Zelenskyy got in their June phone call, his team decided to try to defuse tensions, concluding it wasn’t productive to have friction with the U.S. president, according to two sources familiar with the Ukraine government’s view, congressional aides and two European officials.

Zelenskyy responded publicly that day by thanking Biden for the promised assistance.

“I had an important conversation with U.S. President Biden today,” he said in videotaped remarks. “I am grateful for this support. It is especially important for our defense in Donbas.”

In his statement after the call, Biden said he had informed Zelenskyy of the $1 billion in aid and vowed the U.S. “will not waver in our commitment to the Ukrainian people as they fight for their freedom.”

The effort to get Ukraine weapons and equipment has intensified in recent weeks as Ukraine tries to make significant gains before harsh winter temperatures set in.

The Ukrainian military is focused on driving thousands of Russian troops away from Kherson, trying to encircle them and retake the southern city from Russian control. The battle for Kherson could be one of the most consequential battles in Ukraine since the invasion. If Ukraine is able to retake the area, it could be a major morale booster for Zelenskyy’s forces and a serious blow to Russian troop confidence. But if Russia holds on, it could maintain its grip on the south, including the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, through the winter months. “This could be a turning point,” a defense official said.

Concerns about fading support for Ukraine are also driving the current offensives, according to a defense official and a former official, as Ukraine tries to show momentum on the battlefield to encourage the flow of more weapons.


On Oct. 12, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin convened a meeting of the Ukraine Contact Group in Brussels, a periodic gathering of allies, to discuss how to get more weapons and equipment into Ukrainian military hands. While past meetings have yielded assistance from ammunition to missile launchers, this month’s meeting took on new urgency, according to three defense officials familiar with the discussions.

“Everyone was stepping up,” said an official in the meeting. Countries were scouring their stockpiles and warehouses to find anything that could help the Ukrainian military, the official said. “There was an urgency to get them air defenses and anything we could before winter and so they can be successful in this current offensive.”

The meeting was so successful that Austin was giddy as he walked out, two defense officials said.

Ukraine still needs more air defense systems to defend against Russian military aircraft, missiles and drones, and the U.S. continues to discuss providing longer-range missile systems like the ATACMS and even some advanced fighter aircraft in the future.


The proportion of Americans who are extremely or very concerned about Ukraine’s losing the war has dropped by 17 percentage points since May, from 55% to 38%, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted last month. And the proportion of Americans who say they’re not too concerned or not at all concerned about Russia’s winning was up from 16% to 26%, according to the survey.

The potential change in political will in the U.S. for continuing to send aid to Ukraine could upend how both the White House and Zelenskyy have approached the issue so far.

Since Russia invaded Ukraine in February, the Biden administration has been criticized for moving too cautiously. Now the president faces potential pushback from some Republican lawmakers and progressive Democrats that he’s providing too much aid.

The shifting dynamics on Capitol Hill also could force Zelenskyy’s team to rethink how it engages with Washington, as it has often tried to leverage its support in Congress to get more out of the White House.

 






From all across the political spectrum. No links from CNN though, sorry.
 
He meant Washington state, you know with that whole Capital Hill Autonomous Zone in Seattle they had during the Summer of Love.

Nice goalpost moving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
I can't imagine why we'd have bases in Japan and Germany. Its not like there's a war going on in Korea (that was started by NK who then received active military support from the CCP and USSR) that the US is still technically a belligerent in, or that Russia has a proven track record of violating treaty promises so it can shamelessly acquire territory under its control. Or that it loves threatening the West and then hiding behind its nuclear arsenal.

De Gaulle was actively dangerous to the Allied cause due to his complete disregard for any authority that wasn't his and contemptuous of his allies for the unforgiveable crime of not being French despite him and his Free French being actively dependent on them for everything, up to and including food. During the planning for Operation Overlord, you know, the invasion of France that would liberate all of Western Europe, including his beloved France, standing orders were that nobody, no matter their rank, would be saluted upon entrance to the main HQ for it because there were to be zero distractions or pauses. Naturally, when De Gaulle showed up he wanted everyone to stop what they were doing and salute him because he's just that important.

So fuck him, and the horse he rode in on.

Always has been.

One of my favorite stories of America telling De Gaulle to fuck himself was when he was kicking American troops out of France and the Secretary of State for LBJ, Dean Rusk, was told by Johnson to ask De Gaulle if his order to remove all American service members included the graves of American soldiers from the military graves in France. De Gaulle looked at Rusk in complete shock before leaving the room, his face red and looking completely pissed off, one more nice little dig on that pompous cock sucker.


And in a bit of Ukraine War news, it seems Ukraine shot down a Russian cruise missile and caused it to crash into Moldova. They seem to be having some good success with a recently supplied German IRIS-T anti-air system.

 
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One of my favorite stories of America telling De Gaulle to fuck himself was when he was kicking American troops out of France and the Secretary of State for LBJ, Dean Rusk, was told by Johnson to ask De Gaulle if his order to remove all American service members included the graves of American soldiers from the military graves in France. De Gaulle looked at Rusk in complete shock before leaving the room, his face red and looking completely pissed off, one more nice little dig on that pompous cock sucker.


And in a bit of Ukraine War news, it seems Ukraine shot down a Russian cruise missile and caused it to crash into Moldova. They seem to be having some good success with a recently supplied German anti-air system.

Yeah, German AA systems are good stuff. Its probably the one part of their military that's actually 100% top of the line, mostly because they're still getting flashbacks about a lack of quality AA almost 80 years after the bombs quit dropping.
 
Literally all that transcript says is that the USA was talking to the opposition leaders trying to set something up between them, plus they wanted to bring in... the UN of all people, because the UN is notoriously friendly towards the USA and its ambitions, after all.

But hey, its not like the transcript mentions the fear of Russia getting involved behind-the-scenes to torpedo any deals, or that the Russians have any clean hands because this was clearly accessed by them via espionage.

So, my own question for you: why are the Russians spying on US diplomatic phone calls in what is ostensibly a neutral third country? They clearly had to have some foreign intelligence presence there actively geared towards infiltrating US activities to be able to provide this info.

Fortunately, the BBC provides some context you may have missed:




Emphasis mine for the important parts you should focus on.
In all this shit, people forget to mention that Putin is probably just mad he got outglowed in Ukraine. Pretending there wasn't an ongoing attempt to keep Ukraine under Russia's influence by any means possible is stupid.
Ukraine was literally under USSR (and thus KGB) before becoming an independent country, they had to combat Kremlin's influence well before US became interested.

Ideally it should be possible to work with both countries, but Russia is adamant at alienating the West. So if I had to choose partners, it would be US/West, because they have a lot more to offer (and never tried to subjugate me in the past). It's a pragmatic choice.
In response to the strikes on the black sea fleet, russia pulls out of the grain protection deal. Looks to be continuing anyways, with Turkey looking to aid.
This glows, same as Crimean bridge did.
 
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In all this shit, people forget to mention that Putin is probably just mad he got outglowed in Ukraine. Pretending there wasn't an ongoing attempt to keep Ukraine under Russia's influence by any means possible is stupid.
Ukraine was literally under USSR (and thus KGB) before becoming an independent country, they had to combat Kremlin's influence well before US became interested.
Or in other words: "You're trying to infiltrate what I've rightfully subverted."
 
Yeah, German AA systems are good stuff. Its probably the one part of their military that's actually 100% top of the line, mostly because they're still getting flashbacks about a lack of quality AA almost 80 years after the bombs quit dropping.
Germans pioneered rocket AA, what are you talking about? Acht-acht ended up being good too, so good that they put it on the Tiger.
 
In all this shit, people forget to mention that Putin is probably just mad he got outglowed in Ukraine. Pretending there wasn't an ongoing attempt to keep Ukraine under Russia's influence by any means possible is stupid.
Ukraine was literally under USSR (and thus KGB) before becoming an independent country, they had to combat Kremlin's influence well before US became interested.

Ideally it should be possible to work with both countries, but Russia is adamant at alienating the West. So if I had to choose partners, it would be US/West, because they have a lot more to offer (and never tried to subjugate me in the past). It's a pragmatic choice.

This glows, same as Crimean bridge did.

It's not just the West that Putin is alienating. Every country that isn't some third-world shithole run by a corrupt dictatorship have voiced their opposition to Russia's barbarism in Ukraine and have made it clear that they'll refuse to recognize any territory they capture as illegitimate. Even the Chinks have condemned Russia's aggression in their own way. Even if Russia backs out now, their standing with the rest of the world is fucked to Hell and back and will continue to be for decades to come. This could very well bring about the end of the Russian Federation a their economy collapses, their government crumbles, and various regions break away to become independent.
 
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