choosing between Dave "Wolfaboo" Filoni and Rian "muh subvert expectation" Johnson
is like do you want to be fed to pack of wolves (heh) or group of piranhas
I'm talking about how the show's authors obviously want you to see the Empire as bad, not the characters in the show. Yet in their writing, they accidentally made the Empire sympathetic.
Things were getting quiet, and had it kept on going like that, the Empire wouldn't be that bad a place to live in; it'd be more akin to Pinochet's Chile than North Korea, a dictatorship that you can do business with. Life would be stable, things would be fine, and unlike the Republic, you won't have seasonal, small-scale summer wars constantly being broken up by lightsaber-wielding fanatics.
What was that quote by Ben Franklin? “Those who desire security over freedom will get neither”.
Life under the Empire would be fine until you inevitably have a slight disagreement with it. Let’s say you have a protest over taxation. The Empire’s response? Drop a Star Destroyer on you. Purchase some random droids that you did not know were carrying stolen data? They’ll kill you and burn your house down. Live on a planet with a Senator that is an outspoken critic of the Empire? You and everyone on that planet get vaporized. Happen to be born non-human? Depending on how an Imperial commander is feeling that day, you and your entire species might end up enslaved or exterminated.
The Empire maintains order. An order for the benefit of itself, not the people it rules.
(abbreviated) List of characters Filoni has screwed over
Boba Fett (not even a star in his own show, weak, talks about respect).
Darth Maul (lost to a failed Padawan, then got cut down in five seconds in the desert)
Thrawn (Tentacles)
Pelleon (erased in favor of diverse female villain)
Rukh (gone from being a complex character to a grunting goon)
Stormtroopers (one man with a stick can kill ten of them)
Count Dooku (Always evil, loser)
Anakin (his sole motivation going to the dark side was his wife/Jedi not trusting him. Ashoka undermines both).
Luke/Han/Leia (debatable extent Filoni fucked them. He seems to have worked, along with his fans, to minimize his influence over the current continuity prior to Mando).
Black Sun/Xizor (gone from being nuanced criminals to one for one rip offs of mafia family and even supplanted by Filoni OCs)
Jedi in general (Ashoka survives order 66. Fucking Ashoka, alone, survives on board a Star Destroyer full of Clones because Anakin came up with a training scenario just like Order 66???)
Clones (fucking brain chips)
What was that quote by Ben Franklin? “Those who desire security over freedom will get neither”.
Life under the Empire would be fine until you inevitably have a slight disagreement with it. Let’s say you have a protest over taxation. The Empire’s response? Drop a Star Destroyer on you. Purchase some random droids that you did not know were carrying stolen data? They’ll kill you and burn your house down. Live on a planet with a Senator that is an outspoken critic of the Empire? You and everyone on that planet get vaporized. Happen to be born non-human? Depending on how an Imperial commander is feeling that day, you and your entire species might end up enslaved or exterminated.
The Empire maintains order. An order for the benefit of itself, not the people it rules.
The thing is, the Empire wasn't going full autismo with taxes, orbital bombardments, or extrajudicial killings before the rebels poked the bear. Most of what you described happened during the rising tide of the rebellion-which made the Empire paranoid as fuck. Prior to that, they were happy to keep things in a level stable enough for ruling. Hell, even the Death Star in the first movie was basically just a scare tactic to keep the rebels' heads down. They'll destroy a planet or two to show what they'll do if the rebels don't stop. That isn't an empire that's just engaging in tyranny for the sake of tyranny, that's a government in real danger of being destroyed by insurgents doing what it can to survive.
The Empire's regime was popular enough that in Legends canon, the Imperial Senate mostly supported the Emperor, while in Disney canon, when Mon Mothma speaks against it, people heckle her in the Senate. Meaning that in both versions of SW canon, the majority of the elected leaders in the galaxy support the stability and safety the Empire provides them, and they heaped scorn upon those who criticize it. Again, it must be remembered that the Empire came to power through the cheers and adulation of the Senators, not through sheer conquest or military force. By every metric of politics, the Empire is legitimate, due to the elected representatives of the galaxy cheering on the Emperor, and supporting his decisions. It's the majority oppressing the minority, and that's just how democracy works.
And guess what? When Palpatine shut down the Senate, there was no large uproar from most of the populace. In fact, Palpatine's supporters, which constituted the majority of the Senators, just accepted it. Most of them just retired peacefully back to their homeworlds, only the pro-rebel senators got arrested. Meanwhile, Palpatine's diehard allies in the Senate who voraciously upheld his party line even got new jobs as Imperial Advisors. So they still got to talk shop with the Emperor on government matters. Meanwhile, the populace still didn't care, outside of a brave few who did join the Rebel Alliance, but for every person joining them, more people either remained neutral or joined the Empire, either because of idealistic reasons, or for money.
As for the rest, here's my case for the Empire:
One must note that most of the Empire's army is made up of citizen-soldiers. They eventually phased out the clones, and droid armies are a no-no outside of special forces like the Dark Troopers. So not only do the elected representatives of the galaxy support it, but the people do, as well. Otherwise, why sign up to become Imperial Army Troopers or Stormtroopers? At the end of the day, during Palpatine's height of power, the Empire as a whole was held up by the common man who signed up for the Empire and who fought for it out of their own free will; very few Clone regiments remained, droids were only there as special forces, the average person is what held the Empire up.
Not to mention that the Republic was no better. They let slavery exist despite the fact that it's banned in the books-at least the Empire recognizes that they can't eradicate slavery and instead tries to put the slaves to good use for construction projects. Corporations like the Trade Federation and the Techno Union are allowed to rape and pillage outer rim worlds for resources, local planetary factions can even engage in wars against each other, while all the senate does is bitch and debate about the problems facing the galaxy, instead of fixing it. The Jedi are even worse, considering that the Light Side demands harmony, and yet the Jedi let this political circus go on for God knows how long. It gave the Sith fertile ground to manipulate things.
Maybe that's why the Imperial Senate (in both Legends and Disney Canon) were so approving of Palpatine's measures. They lived through the days of the Old Republic-they saw first-hand how chaotic, messy, and brutal it was. Palpatine was offering them a solution, and for most of them, it's a solution that worked. Of course, Palpatine is still evil, but even he is motivated by a sense that what he's doing is for the good of the galaxy. Same with Tarkin-he was part of the Republic military before the Rise of the Empire, and he saw how chaotic and incompetent the Republic was. The same probably goes for most high-ranking Imperials who previously worked for the Republic military and saw the Republic as a disorganized mess. All this authoritarianism wasn't just them acting evil for the sake of evil-Vader even tells Luke in ESB that it's all to restore order and end destructive conflicts.
Does the Empire go too far at times? Sure. Do they commit acts of obvious evil now and then? Sure. But putting the Empire in the context of the Prequels, where they pretty much had it even worse, or hell, in the context of the Old Republic, where yes, the Old Republic at times became even worse than the Empire, and the Empire isn't so bad. The Prequels showed us that the bad fruits of the Empire's regime, from tyrannical despots, warfare, and slavery was all too common under the Republic, and the Senate and Jedi were either too weak to stop it or too apathetic to care, which led to the Separatist Crisis and the Clone Wars. The Old Republic era had times like the Pius Dea Crusades where they attempted to genocide whole alien races, or the Great Hyperspace War, where they capped off their first victory against the Sith with the attempted genocide of the entire Sith race. Compared to that, Palpatine's a fucking kitten.
To compare the Empire to something in the real world, it's kind of like how the monarchs and lords of old Christendom were; some of them were evil, some did really fucked-up things, but at the end of the day, they were motivated by the cause of trying to bring peace, stability, and prosperity to their realms, because in their minds, God demands they bring peace to their realm, no matter the cost. Even if it meant cracking a few skulls or burning a few heretics at the stake. And speaking of what you said about Ben Franklin, the early American state was chaotic, both politically, and militarily. Wars with Indians, conflicts between slave states and free states that go from the Senate floor to shooting wars in the western territories, it only stabilized after Lincoln's death; and by that time, the United States government became the kind of large government that its founders would've never approved of.
Palpatine is comparable to some of the more sinister Medieval or Renaissance monarchs. Monarchs like Philip IV or Louis XIV of France, or Pope Alexander VI, or the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II. They clearly weren't good people; they started wars, killed rivals, attempted to seize more power than what they had, mostly through political manipulation or brute force. But at the end of the day, even they were motivated by a sense of doing good for the world, stabilizing it and making it peaceful enough that the average man won't have to worry about whether or not he'll get killed tomorrow or whether or not he'll starve to death.
Speaking of starving, here's a quote from Thrawn on how the Empire dealt with that:
"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead." (Galaxy of Fear: The Swarm)
So basically, for the 99% of the galaxy that don't get swept up in large battles or complex schemes, the Empire was just one big fat welfare state, providing for the people what the Republic did not.
What was that quote by Ben Franklin? “Those who desire security over freedom will get neither”.
Life under the Empire would be fine until you inevitably have a slight disagreement with it. Let’s say you have a protest over taxation. The Empire’s response? Drop a Star Destroyer on you. Purchase some random droids that you did not know were carrying stolen data? They’ll kill you and burn your house down. Live on a planet with a Senator that is an outspoken critic of the Empire? You and everyone on that planet get vaporized. Happen to be born non-human? Depending on how an Imperial commander is feeling that day, you and your entire species might end up enslaved or exterminated.
The Empire maintains order. An order for the benefit of itself, not the people it rules.
Agreed. The show demonstrates that early one most systems and organizations probably did everything possible to not involve the Imperial authorities in their everyday affairs. This was shown in the first few episodes. I would imagine most citizens would never personally encounter or interact with Imperial authorities. What i think is being made clear is that for most if you ever did get "picked up" by Imperial authorities you were as good as dead or going to prison for a very long time if not permanently. This was probably not a risk for the majority of the galaxy.
What then happens is a Rebel attack that inflames Imperial control and results in now many more citizens being in danger of being "picked up". The casual doubling of prison sentences is a nice touch as well.
Early in the show the show the Imperials appeared more cold and unsympathetic, but as of the current episode they are now proactively evil in their actions. I think the writers have done a good job showing this aspect.
No over the top cartoonish "anti-alien" statements has been refreshing, though its clear what is going on with the all human prison and story about the aliens they exterminated to build the spaceport. I also find it funny that no one online seems to have made a big deal about there being no women in the prison.
I also thought the part with Mon Mothma's husband asking the cousin if she had found a husband yet was amusing, because to me this was demonstrating that BLT relationships were not common and celebrated in SW. Whether the writers intended this (Im sure they didnt) it certainly came across that way.
Agreed. The show demonstrates that early one most systems and organizations probably did everything possible to not involve the Imperial authorities in their everyday affairs. This was shown in the first few episodes. I would imagine most citizens would never personally encounter or interact with Imperial authorities. What i think is being made clear is that for most if you ever did get "picked up" by Imperial authorities you were as good as dead or going to prison for a very long time if not permanently. This was probably not a risk for the majority of the galaxy.
Basically, yes. For most of the quadrillions under Imperial rule, as Thrawn stated, they never even saw a TIE Fighter or a Stormtrooper in their lives, all the Empire did was provide for them, like one big fat welfare state. Even if the Empire screwed over trillions in their wars and crackdowns, that's less than 1% of 1%. Granted, it's still wrong, but it's so minute so as to not even be a bug bite.
What then happens is a Rebel attack that inflames Imperial control and results in now many more citizens being in danger of being "picked up". The casual doubling of prison sentences is a nice touch as well.
Not only that, but you start seeing Stormtroopers patrolling civilian areas, when Stormtroopers, as the name implies, should be kept in reserve for real battles. The local Imperial Army troopers are nowhere near as uptight or as hardass as the Stormtroopers; they're just goons who slapped on an Imperial uniform for pay, while the Stormtroopers were indoctrinated thugs who can and will kill you at the drop of a hat if ordered to, because that's the one thing they share with the clones outside of the white armor.
Early in the show the show the Imperials appeared more cold and unsympathetic, but as of the current episode they are now proactively evil in their actions. I think the writers have done a good job showing this aspect.
Basically, the Empire went from being a fat, lazy slob gorging itself on tax money and military expansion, to a paranoid control freak wanting to smash anything that remotely looks like a nail with a hammer. And it's all the rebels' fault.
No over the top cartoonish "anti-alien" statements has been refreshing, though its clear what is going on with the all human prison and story about the aliens they exterminated to build the spaceport. I also find it funny that no one online seems to have made a big deal about there being no women in the prison.
It's a lot more subtle. Maybe because the alien prisoners are sent to somewhere far worse than the prison depicted in the show. As for the womenfolk, there's a couple of possibilities. Most likely, the female prisoners just have a separate prison from the men and they separate the sexes to keep them focused on their work. Another possibility is, well, comfort women for the boys in white and other Imperial thugs. At least for the attractive ones.
Back in Legends, even though they didn't have the chips, the clones were still genetically predisposed to act like sheep and follow a herd mentality, as opposed to the clone template, who was a very individualistic person. Order 66 wasn't as absolute as it is in the new canon, but most clones followed it anyway, because they were trained to be good soldiers who always follow orders, and they were genetically altered to be more obedient towards authority.
Few clone units were designed to be like Jango Fett. Like the Clone Assassins, for instance. They're far more ruthless and bloodthirsty compared to the average clone, and with a bigger ego to boot, because they're more like Jango Fett, who was a Mandalorian warrior and mercenary who lived for battle and was very proud of himself. Hence why you don't see these clones all that often, and very few military personnel even know they exist. But that made them effective against targets like the Jedi during Order 66.
The Empire tried to implement the taxation of trade routes in the Outer Rim, which as we all know is an atrocity and a violation of the fundamental rights of all living beings. They were asking for it.
It is. Worse though is that it removes agency. The clones aren't actually responsible for making a tough, moral choice. They had a switch flipped. A switch the Jedi had access to and never noticed for three years. Worse, Filoni made both the chip canon and the Jedi aware of it. They investigated it. And found nothing.
But let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. Fagloni did this because he has clone oc's and as we know, he cannot allow his original characters to ever be anything but Mary Sues.
Agreed. The show demonstrates that early one most systems and organizations probably did everything possible to not involve the Imperial authorities in their everyday affairs. This was shown in the first few episodes. I would imagine most citizens would never personally encounter or interact with Imperial authorities. What i think is being made clear is that for most if you ever did get "picked up" by Imperial authorities you were as good as dead or going to prison for a very long time if not permanently. This was probably not a risk for the majority of the galaxy.
What then happens is a Rebel attack that inflames Imperial control and results in now many more citizens being in danger of being "picked up". The casual doubling of prison sentences is a nice touch as well.
Early in the show the show the Imperials appeared more cold and unsympathetic, but as of the current episode they are now proactively evil in their actions. I think the writers have done a good job showing this aspect.
No over the top cartoonish "anti-alien" statements has been refreshing, though its clear what is going on with the all human prison and story about the aliens they exterminated to build the spaceport. I also find it funny that no one online seems to have made a big deal about there being no women in the prison.
I also thought the part with Mon Mothma's husband asking the cousin if she had found a husband yet was amusing, because to me this was demonstrating that BLT relationships were not common and celebrated in SW. Whether the writers intended this (Im sure they didnt) it certainly came across that way.
I'd disagree. I'd prefer the Empire being racist to generically evil. There should be a COMPNR. That'd actually be interesting, watching ISB struggle against the flashier wing of the Imperial court. Not because they don't believe in the New Order, but they want to wipe the enemies of said Order quietly out in the background. Less drama. Less chance of creating revolt.
It is. Worse though is that it removes agency. The clones aren't actually responsible for making a tough, moral choice. They had a switch flipped. A switch the Jedi had access to and never noticed for three years. Worse, Filoni made both the chip canon and the Jedi aware of it. They investigated it. And found nothing.
But let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. Fagloni did this because he has clone oc's and as we know, he cannot allow his original characters to ever be anything but Mary Sues.
I'd disagree. I'd prefer the Empire being racist to generically evil. There should be a COMPNR. That'd actually be interesting, watching ISB struggle against the flashier wing of the Imperial court. Not because they don't believe in the New Order, but they want to wipe the enemies of said Order quietly out in the background. Less drama. Less chance of creating revolt.
They most certainly are showing their anti alien position (they also dont like human aliens who act different as demonstrated with the native people on the heist episode), it is just done in a way that is well written way. The casual discussion by the torture doctor on how an entire species was killed to build a fuel depot demonstrates this.
What we havent got in Andor was some stupid over the top "no coloreds at the lunch counter scene" or some other contrived scene that shows some earthly example or situation from current events.
It is. Worse though is that it removes agency. The clones aren't actually responsible for making a tough, moral choice. They had a switch flipped. A switch the Jedi had access to and never noticed for three years. Worse, Filoni made both the chip canon and the Jedi aware of it. They investigated it. And found nothing.
In the original lore, the Jedi knew about Order 66, but only as a contingency order against individual Jedi who may have gone bad, and given the Order's history of having bad apples now and then, the Jedi probably thought it best to have Order 66 around. Like say, imagine a Jedi like Exar Kun was serving the Republic, but then the guy falls to the Dark Side, so Republic High Command issues Order 66 to the clones serving under said Jedi to get rid of the guy. The Jedi tolerated the idea of Order 66 because you may have guys like Pong Krell who might be undermining the war effort and using their guise as Jedi to protect themselves from prosecution. The Jedi just didn't think that Order 66 would be used against the ENTIRE Jedi Order, and they didn't know that the Chancellor was a Sith Lord.
But let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. Fagloni did this because he has clone oc's and as we know, he cannot allow his original characters to ever be anything but Mary Sues.
Not necessarily. It was mostly due to the fact that he made the clones sympathetic to the TV audience, and the average normie can't swallow the idea of clones who are loyal and friendly to the Jedi just turning on a dime. When the prequels came out, the clones were rather distant from the Jedi, not always displaying sympathetic traits as humans. They were cool-looking, sure, but they were brutal, calculating soldiers, and they were cloned from an amoral mercenary who gives no shits about assassinating innocent people. And in some cases, like the 2005 Battlefront II, they already knew that Order 66 was coming and were already planning to betray the Jedi, even though some of them had doubts about it, because they liked certain Jedi, and wished that their end was quick and painless. They couldn't give a shit about the rest of the Jedi, though.
Then the 2008 TCW show comes along and makes the clones likeable human beings who get along great with their Jedi generals. People who haven't read the books start being fans of clone characters like Rex, Echo, Fives, Cody, and the others. The only major clone character who isn't well-loved is Fox, and that's because he's the head of the Coruscant Guard that act as Palpatine's top dogs in the Clone Army.
I'd disagree. I'd prefer the Empire being racist to generically evil. There should be a COMPNR. That'd actually be interesting, watching ISB struggle against the flashier wing of the Imperial court. Not because they don't believe in the New Order, but they want to wipe the enemies of said Order quietly out in the background. Less drama. Less chance of creating revolt.
I disagree. That's not what we see in the movies, where the Empire was more generic evil than racist. Especially since in the classical movie trilogy of SW, we barely see any examples of Imperial racism. Cantinas and places of business are full of aliens, and the Stormtroopers mostly leave them alone unless they cause trouble. Most of the stuff concerning Imperial anti-alien prejudice comes from the EU, but even the EU doesn't display it as a total thing. They're not Cerberus from Mass Effect, or ONI from Halo, nor are they the Pius Dea cult from the Old Republic era. Hell, they're more gentle with aliens than the Sith Empire of old, where aside from Chiss and Sith, only humans and Force-users were given any respect.
The Empire, which was canonically a human-supremacist sausage-fest has their Emperor hobnob with aliens and women all the time. The Emperor's top spy and one of his spymasters are women. The Emperor's top admiral is an alien. During the late Republic era, he was surrounded by alien yes-men. Palpatine doesn't share the same racist attitude that the upper class of his Empire does, he just lets them entertain their biases. But even they don't go all the way. They just draw a line between themselves and the aliens, (like say, no aliens in the Stormtrooper Corps) and so long as the aliens don't cross that line or cause trouble, the Imperials leave them alone.
Some aliens are persecuted, but others prosper under the Empire. The Wookiees suffer, but the Trandoshans do well, enslaving their old enemies because the Wookiees had the gall to stop the Empire from investigating potential Jedi fugitives on their world. The Ailons receive the Emperor during their annual parties and zealously serve the Empire as frontline shocktroopers. Most of the aliens we see in the OT are left alone by the Imperials so long as they don't cause trouble, and we even see that they employ aliens as spies and other agents even though they don't let aliens serve in outfits like the Stormtrooper Corps. The Bothans were mostly left alone until the Empire found them aiding the rebels. For the most part, aliens are left alone so long as they don't screw with the Imperials. The later eras of the Empire (like the Jedi Knight games) even have the Empire using alien mercenaries, like when Admiral Galak Fyyar worked with the alien Dark Jedi Desann, and they sent both alien mercenaries and Stormtroopers to attack Bespin, only to be repelled by Kyle Katarn.
Here's Wilhuff Tarkin's wife, hobnobbing with alien dignitaries while Leia is infiltrating:
The rebel princess goes so far as to describe the aliens as Imperial lackeys, indicating that these visitors are allied with the Empire. That doesn't scream "RACISM!" to me. It looks like more than enough aliens find it OK to talk shop and work with high-ranking Imperials and their families. They respect the boundaries the Empire sets, and they deal with the Empire in a sort of business-like manner, kind of like tit-for-tat instead of shoving a gun up to your face and demanding your stuff.
They most certainly are showing their anti alien position (they also dont like human aliens who act different as demonstrated with the native people on the heist episode), it is just done in a way that is well written way. The casual discussion by the torture doctor on how an entire species was killed to build a fuel depot demonstrates this.
I did a double take when I saw this - in what world is a villain who casually talks about genocide for ridiculously petty reasons "well-written" rather than fanfiction levels of cartoonishly evil? So I got curious how bad it was and looked up the scene online.
This character chuckles as he explains how he uses the dying screams of slaughtered alien children as a torture instrument. They couldn't have made him more caricatural if they gave him a twirling mustache and named him Doctor Mengelis. Mature and adult writing my ass, this is simply comical.
As for current year diversity nonsense, I can't judge the whole show, since I only saw that bit and don't plan on ever watching any more of it. I did however notice a blonde blue-eyed officer delivering an evil monologue to her swarthy captive who has a strong ethnic accent, so there's that.
In the original lore, the Jedi knew about Order 66, but only as a contingency order against individual Jedi who may have gone bad, and given the Order's history of having bad apples now and then, the Jedi probably thought it best to have Order 66 around. Like say, imagine a Jedi like Exar Kun was serving the Republic, but then the guy falls to the Dark Side, so Republic High Command issues Order 66 to the clones serving under said Jedi to get rid of the guy. The Jedi tolerated the idea of Order 66 because you may have guys like Pong Krell who might be undermining the war effort and using their guise as Jedi to protect themselves from prosecution. The Jedi just didn't think that Order 66 would be used against the ENTIRE Jedi Order, and they didn't know that the Chancellor was a Sith Lord.
And there was order 65 that would result in the arrest and if necessary execution of the Supreme Chancellor.
The real problem with Order 66 (and most of the contingency orders) is that it and its exact wording/mechanism were never thought out BUT its being treated as though it was, and much like measuring the Falcon's speed as Parsecs, you have to torture logic into increasingly tighter knots to explain it away.
"We need to have an order to terminate any Jedi that go rogue" is good, but how does that turn into murdering the whole Jedi Order (except for the approximately 15 billion jedi who survived and apparently spent the next 24 years fucking warmed-up cantaloupe)
In ROTS, Order 66 is very clearly supposed to just be a code word, something Palpatine worked out with the Clones ahead of time. Exposition from the Prequel video games bears that out.
But as you said, people started to like the Clones and some took on a personality, and its hard to marry that with "Just didn't bother telling anyone about Order 66", so you just give them brain chips.
Personally, I think a longer term conspiracy would have been better; The Clone commanders are primed to believe there is someone with force powers working against the Republic from the inside. Then each commander gets orders the Jedi have betrayed the Republic. You can't talk to the Jedi because they might Jedi mind trick you. You can't capture them because they might escape. The only thing you can do is kill them: try to sucker punch them or use overwhelming numbers and suck up the casualties.
Clone rank & file just follow orders. Captain got orders that Master Yoda is a Separatist Agent? Well, command's gotta know better than us.
I did a double take when I saw this - in what world is a villain who casually talks about genocide for ridiculously petty reasons "well-written" rather than fanfiction levels of cartoonishly evil? So I got curious how bad it was and looked up the scene online.
This character chuckles as he explains how he uses the dying screams of slaughtered alien children as a torture instrument. They couldn't have made him more caricatural if they gave him a twirling mustache and named him Doctor Mengelis. Mature and adult writing my ass, this is simply comical.
As for current year diversity nonsense, I can't judge the whole show, since I only saw that bit and don't plan on ever watching any more of it. I did however notice a blonde blue-eyed officer delivering an evil monologue to her swarthy captive who has a strong ethnic accent, so there's that.
You just told us you had a preconception, watched a single clip out of context specifically to confirm your preconception, walked away agreeing with yourself, and refuse to watch more knowing doing so might challenge your preconceptions.
Seems like they've successfully subverted who the self-parody is.
@LORD IMPERATOR
And there was order 65 that would result in the arrest and if necessary execution of the Supreme Chancellor.
The real problem with Order 66 (and most of the contingency orders) is that it and its exact wording/mechanism were never thought out BUT its being treated as though it was, and much like measuring the Falcon's speed as Parsecs, you have to torture logic into increasingly tighter knots to explain it away.
"We need to have an order to terminate any Jedi that go rogue" is good, but how does that turn into murdering the whole Jedi Order (except for the approximately 15 billion jedi who survived and apparently spent the next 24 years fucking warmed-up cantaloupe)
In ROTS, Order 66 is very clearly supposed to just be a code word, something Palpatine worked out with the Clones ahead of time. Exposition from the Prequel video games bears that out.
But as you said, people started to like the Clones and some took on a personality, and its hard to marry that with "Just didn't bother telling anyone about Order 66", so you just give them brain chips.
Personally, I think a longer term conspiracy would have been better; The Clone commanders are primed to believe there is someone with force powers working against the Republic from the inside. Then each commander gets orders the Jedi have betrayed the Republic. You can't talk to the Jedi because they might Jedi mind trick you. You can't capture them because they might escape. The only thing you can do is kill them: try to sucker punch them or use overwhelming numbers and suck up the casualties.
Clone rank & file just follow orders. Captain got orders that Master Yoda is a Separatist Agent? Well, command's gotta know better than us.
Sidious pretty much spammed the order to all Clone commanders with a Jedi attached to their command. Each one executed their Jedi general or ally. I think only the 501st went in with the whole "kill all Jedi" mentality because they were sent into the Jedi Temple, and in the old lore, they were informed ahead of time that the Jedi were to be destroyed. Then Sidious informed the galaxy of Windu and the Jedi Council trying to kill him, and he used that as the reason as to why he applied Order 66 to the entire Jedi Order, and why it had to go.
What was that quote by Ben Franklin? “Those who desire security over freedom will get neither”.
Life under the Empire would be fine until you inevitably have a slight disagreement with it. Let’s say you have a protest over taxation. The Empire’s response? Drop a Star Destroyer on you. Purchase some random droids that you did not know were carrying stolen data? They’ll kill you and burn your house down. Live on a planet with a Senator that is an outspoken critic of the Empire? You and everyone on that planet get vaporized. Happen to be born non-human? Depending on how an Imperial commander is feeling that day, you and your entire species might end up enslaved or exterminated.
The Empire maintains order. An order for the benefit of itself, not the people it rules.
This is why Luke hated the Empire but also didn't give a shit about them being evil, because Tatooine was a hellhole and it was better under Imperial rule than none at all. The problem comes when you want the freedom to live your life and make something of yourself like he did. That's what the Rebellion was fighting for.
(abbreviated) List of characters Filoni has screwed over
Boba Fett (not even a star in his own show, weak, talks about respect).
Darth Maul (lost to a failed Padawan, then got cut down in five seconds in the desert)
Thrawn (Tentacles)
Pelleon (erased in favor of diverse female villain)
Rukh (gone from being a complex character to a grunting goon)
Stormtroopers (one man with a stick can kill ten of them)
Count Dooku (Always evil, loser)
Anakin (his sole motivation going to the dark side was his wife/Jedi not trusting him. Ashoka undermines both).
Luke/Han/Leia (debatable extent Filoni fucked them. He seems to have worked, along with his fans, to minimize his influence over the current continuity prior to Mando).
Black Sun/Xizor (gone from being nuanced criminals to one for one rip offs of mafia family and even supplanted by Filoni OCs)
Jedi in general (Ashoka survives order 66. Fucking Ashoka, alone, survives on board a Star Destroyer full of Clones because Anakin came up with a training scenario just like Order 66???)
Clones (fucking brain chips)
in what world is a villain who casually talks about genocide for ridiculously petty reasons "well-written" rather than fanfiction levels of cartoonishly evil? So I got curious how bad it was and looked up the scene online.
Maybe the Empire has always been OTT evil in a relative sense but we just refuse to bring it up for some reason
Back in the 70s having such unambiguously evil bad guys was refreshing because of how many shades of grey movies coming out back then had.
You just told us you had a preconception, watched a single clip out of context specifically to confirm your preconception, walked away agreeing with yourself, and refuse to watch more knowing doing so might challenge your preconceptions.
Are you trying to say Hitler The Empire did nothing wrong?
or that after the past 10 years' worth of content from Kennedyfilm @Force and Character shouldn't feel the way he does about Andor, whether it's good or not, because of what came before it even after wasting time watching dogshit like the sequels and the other D+ shows?
"We need to have an order to terminate any Jedi that go rogue" is good, but how does that turn into murdering the whole Jedi Order (except for the approximately 15 billion jedi who survived and apparently spent the next 24 years fucking warmed-up cantaloupe)
Dave and his pet characters really need to fuck off. Taking into account just the PT you'd only think Obi Wan and Yoda were the only Jedi around which is consistent with the OT. Over time more and more of them started surviving and that's when it got dumb as hell. You don't even need Luke anymore. There is still ZERO reasons as to why Ahsoka couldn't have joined Luke or just taken on Sheev and Palpatine on her own.
So, for the few multi-celled organisms who remember that the High Republic exists, that upcoming show set in that era (being heralded by Harvey Weinstein's assistant) has just announced its cast.
So, for the few multi-celled organisms who remember that the High Republic exists, that upcoming show set in that era (being heralded by Harvey Weinstein's assistant) has just announced its cast.
Here's the cast photo. A bunch of literal whos and Trinity from The Matrix (who looks good for her age imo). Too bad it's gonna completely eat shit when it comes out. Considering how diverse and inclusive it is they can blame its failure on the fans being racist sexists incels like they always do.
Also J.D. Dillard's Star Wars movie has been cancelled. I didn't even know it was greenlit in the first place.
who the hell is this guy?
