Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[Frances Kiwi Farmer]

“Having me as a son is really the only gift you need”

What kind of narcissistic bullshit is this?

I'm impressed that the IG ad algorithm recognizes said narcissism so well. Machine learning is a TERF

 

[pursuitsnail]

If Mallory is really lamenting the lack of fantasy feasts in her childhood, she's got Thanksgiving coming up in a couple weeks. It's the perfect excuse for home cooking mixed with theatrical presentation. As opposed to last Christmas's baffling 'goose mash', delicately plated slices of roast goose breast and a generally sad looking table.

In defense of Snackwell's, they're cheap, prepackaged, and come in a pretty good selection of styles and flavors. Which makes them perfect for letting the kids pick their favorites to take with them for lunch at school. I think it's silly to pass moral judgement on snack cake choice when Mallory is probably trying to use them as a symbol of 90's middle class cisheteronormative whiteness. Trix yogurt compels you to conform, while homemade kefir liberates us from the chains of the gender binary and capitalism with its inherent queerness or something.

 

[mold]

In defense of Snackwell's, they're cheap, prepackaged, and come in a pretty good selection of styles and flavors. Which makes them perfect for letting the kids pick their favorites to take with them for lunch at school.

are you guys all from mars? kids don't eat snackwells. they're diet food. you only feed them to kids if you are controlling their weight. most of the brands mentioned are *low fat.* that's not generic 90s food, it's specifically diet food, and even more specifically, diet food from that unfortunate moment in American history when people thought fat was bad.

 

[Frances Kiwi Farmer]

are you guys all from mars? kids don't eat snackwells. they're diet food. you only feed them to kids if you are controlling their weight. most of the brands mentioned are *low fat.* that's not generic 90s food, it's specifically diet food, and even more specifically, diet food from that unfortunate moment in American history when people thought fat was bad.

Not to get too far into Snackfood Discourse, but I think there's a middle ground here. Yes, Snackwell's and such were part of the low-fat diet food craze of Mallory's childhood. If I had to guess, her mom bought Snackwell's, rather than Little Debbie, because she was trying to watch her own weight (and, sure, probably wanted to make sure the pastor's kids were slim, All-American types, too). When I was a kid, I was always eating my mom's Skinny Cow ice cream sandwiches; she knew if she bought the good shit for me, she'd end up eating it and ruining her own diet.

Clearly Mallory was deeply affected by witnessing the white-bread standards of beauty (and moderately restrictive lifestyle required to achieve said standards) her mother subscribed to. Was exposure to this sort of extremely typical lifestyle as abusive and nefarious as her histrionic account is attempting to make it out to be? Maybe (the lipo story, assuming it's an accurate account, is pretty weird), but I doubt it. Skinny Cow sandwiches are actually pretty ok, is all I'm saying.

Edit: Her essay just reads to me like a cope for getting and staying fat, with the sprinkling of I-hate-my-family she includes in everything now. It's not that she let herself go because the rest of her life is utterly depressing and her endocrine system is fucked, it's liberatory praxis.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

there are two things going on in the piece - there's the processed food, but what's actually more telling about the household dynamics is the portion control. Portion control + a bland processed food diet that includes diet foods being given to children is a dead giveaway of obsession with appearance.

Oh, Christ. Her mother bought Snackwells because she didn't cook from scratch, they were a "healthy" alternative, and she had a chubby daughter who was clearly bothered by the effects that eating too much had on her. Reads to me like her mom, though unimaginative and seemingly uninterested in utilizing 2 extra hours a day honing her culinary chops, was trying to do for Mal what Mal wanted and wouldn't do for herself.

Whether it was that or she just didn't want her daughter to be fat (or herself), it's such a non-issue for a 40(?)-ish year old person to be petty about. It just seems like more nose-peering from supposedly urbane offspring at "backward" roots that, on this matter at least, are not all that different than a lot of Middle America, particularly 30 years ago. So the food sucked; too bad, grow up, learn to cook for yourself, and spare a thought for the many benefits of portion management.

 

[pursuitsnail]

are you guys all from mars? kids don't eat snackwells. they're diet food. you only feed them to kids if you are controlling their weight. most of the brands mentioned are *low fat.* that's not generic 90s food, it's specifically diet food, and even more specifically, diet food from that unfortunate moment in American history when people thought fat was bad.

Possibly? Clearly we had pretty different childhood food experiences. For me, Snackwell's were just one choice of treat among many I could ask for to go in my lunch bag. Or they might end up there anyway if mom decided she wanted an excuse to try them herself.

Seems they're also discontinued, and have been replaced with an explicitly diet/beauty/feminine snack line. I wouldn't buy them for my kid unless asked for, though at least half of that is the disappointing lack of choices they offer. The branding is eye rolling enough that I'm not sure even a Beauty Parlor Snackfood Discourse thread could lure me into trying them.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Oh, Christ. Her mother bought Snackwells because she didn't cook from scratch, they were a "healthy" alternative, and she had a chubby daughter who was clearly bothered by the effects that eating too much had on her. Reads to me like her mom, though unimaginative and seemingly uninterested in utilizing 2 extra hours a day honing her culinary chops, was trying to do for Mal what Mal wanted and wouldn't do for herself.

Whether it was that or she just didn't want her daughter to be fat (or herself), it's such a non-issue for a 40(?)-ish year old person to be petty about. It just seems like more nose-peering from supposedly urbane offspring at "backward" roots that, on this matter at least, are not all that different than a lot of Middle America, particularly 30 years ago. So the food sucked; too bad, grow up, learn to cook for yourself, and spare a thought for the many benefits of portion management.

My mom told me to lay off the oatmeal butterscotch squares when I hit a growth spurt and would polish off a whole pan while waiting for her to come home from work and watching Electric Company reruns.

That's why I post on a notorious internet hate site now. Fucked me up bad.

 

[2525ABC]

oatmeal butterscotch squares

Gonna need a citation in form of a recipe here.
Happy to trade for nostalgic children's literature staples, as I did have the idyllic Enid Blyton childhood of slap up teas and lashings of ginger beer that Mal longs for. And mostly it made me an ungrateful little shit who craved anything brand-named and plastic-wrapped.

 

[cherrysour]

"My mom bought Snackwells"
"My mom never bought Snackwells"

I'm gonna need a scenario in which her being fat isn't her mom's fault.

 

[mold]

Gonna need a citation in form of a recipe here.
Happy to trade for nostalgic children's literature staples, as I did have the idyllic Enid Blyton childhood of slap up teas and lashings of ginger beer that Mal longs for. And mostly it made me an ungrateful little shit who craved anything brand-named and plastic-wrapped.

it's a pretty sad thing when people never reach the point of maturity where they realize the hippie kids all craved sugar cereal and the children of good cooks got very excited by top ramen.

that said, yes, that diet is the reason that Mallory is fat - this is a very common pattern, a mom who is obsessed with staying skinny restricts household food and feeds growing kids a diet that is barely sufficient in calories and catastrophically low in fat. one kid in this situation will react by becoming obsessed with appearance themselves, another will react by becoming the family fatso.

I've made my opinion of Mallory clear on this thread, I think she's a monster and has done something way worse than anything Joe has ever done. That doesn't make me blind to the obvious dynamics in her very fucked up family. Joe would never have been able to get close to her if they weren't all psychos. He could never have been comfortable spending 30 seconds around a normal loving family.

I'm dying on the snackwell hill because nobody ever bought those for their kids unless they were controlling their kids' weight and no kid would eat them unless there was no other option. They were really, really gross. And they're not an alternative to baking from scratch - they're an alternative to pepperidge farms or chips ahoy or oreos.

 

[Trianon]

Nicole is still talking about "birth trauma" and her desire to be a doula who provides abortions or something.



Full text:

Spoiler

(CONTENT NOTE: birth trauma)

I was re-reading the birth story that @angiesdoulaservices wrote for us following the (very challenging, also sublime) birth of my oldest child, and I am always so moved by how watching my babies being born was a source of healing for my mother, who was treated absolutely abominably by her OB so many years ago.

To see her first grandchild enter a room filled with love and tenderness and also to see how supported I was by these beautiful and kind women really returned something profound to her that had been taken away.

My mom always knew she wouldn’t be able to labor during her her births, due to her injuries from the car accident, it was absolutely necessary that she have a C-section.

My mom only had three requests for her OB. To have my father in the room with her. To be awake for the birth. To get a bikini incision instead of the classic vertical incision (which might seem unimportant but my mother was going in with so many physical and emotional scars already.)

Her OB said yes to her three requests. Consistently said yes all through her pregnancy. No hint whatsoever that, barring emergencies, her tiny list of needs wouldn’t be taken seriously.

My darlings, as my mother was being wheeled into surgery, this horrible man stopped on the threshold of the operating theater and said: “your husband cannot be with you, I am more comfortable making the massive classical incision, and I am knocking you out.”

And before she had so much as a minute to advocate for herself in this sudden and terrifying moment, there was a mask on her face and she lost about 48 hours of her wild and precious life, coming in and out of consciousness, asking and forgetting whether I was a boy or a girl again and again.

I hate that man with all my heart. He was cruel and he was a coward and a liar. But she got to be the first person to see each of my babies, couldn’t be dragged away from her front row seat, and it helped. It was a moment of grace. She deserved everything that I got to have. I’m grateful.


I honestly hadn’t realized that my decision to become a doula was, on some level, about what happened to my mother, until I hit post on this today.

She also teased some expensive pants but refused to identify the brand. Thread, do your thing.



Mallory has glasses now.


Also did a talk at the beginning of the month in a church about the food essay. Inexplicably believes she looks "good in smocks."


But Mallory is also still writing about how much she hates her dad and brother on her blog.
link | archive

Some new tidbits:

To the best of my recollection, this was also the last day I spoke directly to any of my relatives – after speaking to my brother, I spoke to my sister briefly over the phone, then later and at greater length to my father. Grace and I had had plans to speak with my mother over the phone after the conversation with my father, but by that point we had already realized the necessity of acting against them and didn’t want to give any warning of what we were planning to do. My parents happened to be traveling on separate work trips, which was the only reason I wouldn’t have spoken to them as a unit. I texted my mother to cancel our conversation for that evening. I think I said I was very tired after talking with my father, but that we’d talk later, since I didn’t want her to suspect anything until it was too late for her to try to stop us.

This seems faster than I thought. I thought it was at least over a couple of days.

my maternal grandmother, who is now morally compromised beyond hope of salvation but who was tremendously hospitable and a lot of fun to play cards with when I knew her

The three-year-mark seems to me to mark a shift from the acute to the chronic – my estrangement is no longer recent. (I wonder if I have said this before? I can’t remember having done so, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if I’d made the same declaration at the one-year mark. It’s entirely possible that I repeat this claim every few months.)

You do.

There’s probably a link between family estrangement and transition (besides the obvious causal link) and trying to turn oneself into an expert almost immediately afterwards.

"the obvious causal link" well, kudos for self-awareness

For probably the first year of this estrangement, I couldn’t fall asleep at night without fantasizing about beating all of my relatives to death with a baseball bat

That testosterone brain


First off, I think she is only basing the idea that her father is a pedophile on the Sabaah story, so good luck with that.
Second, I read that as Catboy at first and almost entered the Merge. KEFFALS?

I think the implication the piece gives is that it's short for "call boy" somehow, but it's not.


They're like faeries because they ... kidnap children?


Tweets that inspired the post:

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Her dad is a pedo too now? Did I miss something? The brother accusation was tenuous enough- sounds like the guy had OCD and "bad thoughts" and no proof of anything further.

 

[Trianon]

Her dad is a pedo too now? Did I miss something? The brother accusation was tenuous enough- sounds like the guy had OCD and "bad thoughts" and no proof of anything further.

The only thing is that post she has pinned on Twitter, where the woman says she was "15-16" when John Ortberg SA'd her while another woman watched. Complete fanfiction.

I think whenever Mallory learned about this, she found a "reason" why her dad would protect her brother and won't reexamine it because it clarifies things in her mind. Even early on, when she was still vagueposting about the scandal, she referred to it as the family secret that affected all Ortberg men. But this is the first time she's outright said "my dad is a pedophile." She was always kind of careful about saying "here is a claim, I want this investigated, I take it seriously."

But this, this is probably actionable for defamation. Not that I think that will happen, but she's really pushing it further while saying she's really, really not angry anymore.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

How fucking withered is your imagination that a non-rotating microwave feels as otherworldly as a race of dark fairies?

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

Mallory also deliberately and strategically cultivates "boyishness."

See:

Spoiler

Mallory is also CONSTANTLY compelled to write about children's literature characters and fantasies that they're trans, obsessed with thinking about the little girls and boys from the stories of her childhood.

I'm just saying, when someone who has cultivated a deliberate image of boyishness tells you that people cultivating a deliberate image of boyishness are pedophiles trying to disguise their intentions with a veneer of innocence, that seems like telling on yourself.

So: what do you think it means?

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

Speaking of children’s lit, I‘m beginning to think both sides of the great literary debate were wrong. Neither 1984 nor Brave New World were the most accurate predictions of the future: it was the fucking Giver! It’s got it all, weird artificial family structures, elective surrogacy, puberty blockers, euthanasia...

 

[mrae]

So Nicole's doula 'journey' is her new 'diva-cup-in-my-vag-almost-killed-me.' Imagine what she could accomplish if she was able to divert her manic energy away from posting on instagram to actually doing the thing she's suddenly very passionate about.

Also, Mallory accusing her Dad and Brother of cultivating boyishness is amazing. What a stunning lack of self-awareness from someone who never wanted to be a man, but some fantasy image of a teenage boy.

 

[Prescription Bugs]

Yes the horror she has for her dad having “Calboy” as his email is bizarre. She is often saying and acting like she’s a boy. And transwomen are always calling themselves girls. Except quite frankly props to Joe for realizing there is nothing girlish about him at all. He’s going for the matron thing.

Then when you add in their whole “children aren’t innocent” thing and the constant dirty humor that winks at consent and includes the world in their sex life, it is more inconsistent.

She has defamed her dad and brother. I hope they sue her.

 

[Frances Kiwi Farmer]

You know, it took a second, but I'm glad that Joe got Twitter banned, Mallory is really coming into her own as a cow. Good for her. All of this update is hilarious, but this exchange made me laugh out loud:



So horrific! Mallory should submit this cool-dad-cringe email address proof of pedophilia to the police, I'm sure they'll get right on that.

 

[Aunt Carol]

How fucking withered is your imagination that a non-rotating microwave feels as otherworldly as a race of dark fairies?

I was pondering that. My guess is she was trying to remember the term unheimlich, in the sense of "uncanny."