Going to Mars is dumb - 60+ billion dollars for what?

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Space colonization in general is bad because it leads to the risk that people will modify themselves into the Borg or create robots that kill us all. Once you leave the easily monitored sphere of like 1-2 million km around Earth, people might do all sorts of shit. Only space colonization that makes sense is mining the moon or near-Earth asteroids, since we can't let the only options be "let China/some African shithole pollute itself or pollute our country" whenever we want rare earth elements or whatever.

Space colonization is also psychologically dangerous. In addition to the "cabin fever" sort of thing you'd get if you were stuck in a Mars colony with no way out for months and months, even a big space colony like an O'Neill Cylinder could easily just be nothing but a giant pod to live in and eat the bugs (and yes, look at discussions on food in space--the future is bugs and soy!). A low-density space colony would be paradise, but they'll pack them full of 1 million+ people since even in a space-based economy these things are fucking expensive to build. Space colonization is dangerous and should be done sparingly lest humanity is destroyed.

Mars exploration should be limited to robots. There's literally nothing of interest on that planet aside from maybe fossils of a bacteria that died 4 billion years ago or some shit like that. It's such a colossal waste of money along with most space exploration and science in general.

Now OP is wrong about the Martian magnetosphere. If you build enough magnets and put them in space, you can make a fake magnetosphere. It's actually pretty fucking easy compared to terraforming a planet.

 

[Wesley Willis]

Mars will be renamed Little St. James Planet.

 

[fakemon]

I'd spend ten times that much just to find evidence of microbial life on another planet so I can experience the full extent of Christian cope.

 

[Beak Thing]

Space colonization in general is bad because it leads to the risk that people will modify themselves into the Borg or create robots that kill us all. Once you leave the easily monitored sphere of like 1-2 million km around Earth, people might do all sorts of shit. Only space colonization that makes sense is mining the moon or near-Earth asteroids, since we can't let the only options be "let China/some African shithole pollute itself or pollute our country" whenever we want rare earth elements or whatever.

I think the challenge is you'll eventually reach a point where someone or some country with enough money ends up going off and doing who knows what somewhere out in space. Better to get in front of it than find out some unpleasant surprise down the line.

Now OP is wrong about the Martian magnetosphere. If you build enough magnets and put them in space, you can make a fake magnetosphere. It's actually pretty fucking easy compared to terraforming a planet.

The really insurmountable problem is Mars is just too small. Even with a magnetosphere the increased sale height means it's going to lose a large quantity of its atmosphere because it's not massive enough to hold on to it.

It's good as a waystation that produces fuel and other resources to support missions further out but not much more than that. The lower gravity could be useful if the main mission launches from there rather than Earth....it'd probably be great for asteroid mining once that becomes feasible but I doubt there would ever be a permanent human population.

I think it would be like Antarctica if this happens, the human population would be stationed at bases for periods of time but then rotated out. None of this one-way mission nonsense. The launch window for Mars is about every 2 years if I remember correctly.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I think the challenge is you'll eventually reach a point where someone or some country with enough money ends up going off and doing who knows what somewhere out in space. Better to get in front of it than find out some unpleasant surprise down the line.

The beauty of space is anything and everything is easily tracked, so it's easy to set it up so no one can leave the solar system and anyone who tries gets a meeting with a missile. And if a country kept trying, just treat them like North Korea. The solar system itself is huge but could feasibly be policed by drones monitoring every single space station and outpost.

Fortunately, this is an issue a lot of people have considered and I'm sure will consider in the future and is sometimes considered a Fermi paradox solution ("we don't see aliens because they stay in their home system and don't expand and the ones who did expand destroyed themselves in a way that didn't involve grey goo consuming a galaxy").

The really insurmountable problem is Mars is just too small. Even with a magnetosphere the increased sale height means it's going to lose a large quantity of its atmosphere because it's not massive enough to hold on to it.

Atmospheres are only blown off because of the charged particles from the solar wind (and to a far lesser degree, cosmic rays) ionizing parts of the atmosphere and blowing it away. If the Moon had an atmosphere, it would last a few thousand years (without a magnetosphere) before solar wind "blew" it away. If you charged a big enough magnet, it would block the solar wind as efficiently as Earth's magnetic field does.

 

[Beak Thing]

Atmospheres are only blown off because of the charged particles from the solar wind (and to a far lesser degree, cosmic rays) ionizing parts of the atmosphere and blowing it away. If the Moon had an atmosphere, it would last a few thousand years (without a magnetosphere) before solar wind "blew" it away. If you charged a big enough magnet, it would block the solar wind as efficiently as Earth's magnetic field does.

It did for a period of time, something like 50 million years I think. Enough volcanic activity replenished it to offset the losses.

A magnetosphere will help a lot but there will be much larger atmospheric losses on Mars no matter what due to its low mass and lower escape velocity. I'd have to check but one problem is oxygen is very close to that threshold to easily escape.

Of course if we're talking meaningful losses on geologic time there's probably something someone could figure out...

 

[Chuck McGill]

Frankly, I'm disappointed not one of you mentioned the chief benefit to Mars.



No obsolete farm equipment laying around.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

honestly going to mars seems like a waste of time when we cant even finish exploring our own planet. like the ocean is just right there and we have yet to make a suit or anything other than a robot that can take us to the bottom. the answers to space travel are in the deep ocean once you figure that out youll have a way to handle going even further than mars.

 

[Second Sun]

Frankly, I'm disappointed not one of you mentioned the chief benefit to Mars.

No obsolete farm equipment laying around.

No far is too far to get away from the lesser races.

 

[DicksOutForKiwigglers]

The whole idea is stupid scifi wank material. Humans will never teraform a planet, we will never colonize another body, and we will never leave our solar system.

The challenges are too great, the cost is too high, and much of what we’d need to do may not even be possible. We think too highly of ourselves when it comes to this kind of thing.

Even if the very worst climate change models came true and earth became a hell scape it would still be far more habitable than anywhere else.


Extinction is the fate of humanity no matter what we do, it is completely unavoidable. The question isn’t if, it’s when.

A century ago, the idea of putting a man on the moon was science fiction. The idea of being able to redirect asteroids and comets was science fiction until recently. While I agree humans have a problem with overestimating ourselves as a species, it is retarded to say we aren't the most brilliant and intelligent creatures to ever exist as far we've been able to observe. Nothing on our planet or anywhere else that we've seen even comes close to our level of ingenuity and creativity. Extinction is not a certainty for mankind. Even if we get the worst possible future for mankind in the coming decades we'll still be able to succeed in becoming a space fairing civilization eventually.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

In Civilization 1-5, "Alpha Centauri" was a goal. In Civilization 6, "Mars" is a goal. In any future Civ game, maybe the science victory is reduced to landing on the Moon.

Anyway, ever hear of that Biosphere 2 experiment? I think that casts doubt on establishing a permanent presence on Mars.

relevant video:

"Red Dead No Redemption" by exurb1a

Space colonization in general is bad

Sucks how it seems people are trapped on this arguably crappy, dystopian, loony bin of a modern world with "Earthlings" running it.

 

[Montalbane]

This is who you are supporting when you give into nihilism and decide that the adventures that await us in space are just a dream.

And frankly if you believe that space is unreacheable you are no different than a nigger and deserve their company.

Also I am fairly sure people came up with the same arguments regarding colonizing everything.
From a mountain to america there has always been a spoiled cunt whining.
And yet humanity endures because the drive ti explore is too strong

 

[ToroidalBoat]

decide that the adventures that await us in space are just a dream

I don't think more travel is necessarily "just a dream", but I do think it's doubtful, and in any case is rather difficult to pull.

What could change that is if there's "techno magic" like in Star Trek that works after all, like "real artificial gravity" and FTL.

 

[Montalbane]

I don't think more travel is necessarily "just a dream", but I do think it's doubtful, and in any case is rather difficult to pull.

What could change that is if there's "techno magic" like in Star Trek that works after all, like "real artificial gravity" and FTL.

Difficult is good
And the technology will at some point show up.
Unlike other pipedream project space exploration is one of those endeavours humanity has always dreamed about.
The stars will be a ours.
Its not a if but a when.

Certainly much later if we keep babysitting minorities and doing makework for globohomo

 

[Claude Sigma]

60+ billion dollars​

That's the amount of the money that the US government is stealing from the citizen and giving away as foreign aid every single year.
I think in comparaison, spending that much for furthering our understanding of reality and make another step toward planetary colonization isn't that much of a big deal.

 

[Moths]

Fuck that we should be doing stuff like crashing meteors into shit and maybe stealing their valuable shit.

Until we figure out an economical way to fuck around in space near our own planet I dont see the point in settling another one. I mean what value are they gonna send back? Itd be like colonizing a desert, absolutely worthless other than prototyping stuff

 

[ToroidalBoat]

globohomo

Even without space travel, this world would still be a lot better without the anti-human woke cult, and without "cancelling real life" with "social media" and consumerism.

 

[DankSmoker]

There could be a Grapes of Wrath novel in space.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

The futility in achieving putting humans on mars is proven by the evidence of space landings being faked.

 

[Alligator Alcatraz]

I like the idea of colonizing the unhabitable places on Earth before Mars. What we call the country of Australia is really just a string of over-populated cities along the shore of the island. The central region is uninhabited due to intense temperatures, with only the most uniquely stubborn creatures fighting to survive. Before we head to space, I very much would like the uninhabited regions of Earth to be explored and conquered. The ocean, Antartica, etc. Why do spacenerds have such a big head about living on Mars when we can barely accomodate humans on our native planet?

If we are to live in space, I would sooner prefer O'Neill cylinders than planets. An O'Neill cylinder is a large space habitat with an Earth-like environment inside. It is shaped like cylinder which spins to generate gravity. An O'Neill cylinder would circumvent any need to terraform planets and are portable. The primary issue of course is that we need robots to build these in space and we have to find a source of material to build them as well. Mining asteroids is a higher priority than a Mars colony.