F.A.Qs about Jail, State Hospital, and Court

[JanuaryViolet]

What are the actual chances we don't hear from Chris until the review date?

Pretty good. Sorry.

 

[Cherenkovblue]

Last time someone checked Vine it said he was.

I really wish someone would paste this fucking link to the top of the thread so people will stop asking this. Yes, he's still in custody. No, that's not going to change anytime soon. Yes, you're probably not going to hear anything until his next hearing in August 2023.

 

[AnOminous]

I really wish someone would paste this fucking link to the top of the thread so people will stop asking this. Yes, he's still in custody. No, that's not going to change anytime soon. Yes, you're probably not going to hear anything until his next hearing in August 2023.

It really could change any day, though. In fact, it's increasingly suspicious it isn't.

 

[Cherenkovblue]

It really could change any day, though. In fact, it's increasingly suspicious it isn't.

Yeah, it's almost like they actually meant it when they gave him an autism deferral.

Seriously, though, I don't expect his status to change if he's in the custody of any sort of psychiatric care facility of any sort. I expect him to continue to be listed as "in custody", and we won't hear anything until next August.

 

[robobobo]

I have to be honest, even though Chris likely deserves it, the fact that anyone's spent almost eighteen months behind bars without any verdict is disturbing to me. I know civil cases take an eternity to play out, but had generally believed that criminal cases had a lot more haste behind them to prevent this exact state of affairs.

 

[Jon Osterman]

I have to be honest, even though Chris likely deserves it, the fact that anyone's spent almost eighteen months behind bars without any verdict is disturbing to me. I know civil cases take an eternity to play out, but had generally believed that criminal cases had a lot more haste behind them to prevent this exact state of affairs.

Don't feel too sad for Chris on this one, it's his fault the proceedings are taking so long. He was too busy whining to actually cooperate during the hearings, and could've easily been out by August with the trial done in January if he had just taken the plea and been done with it. But instead he chose to try and fight for not guilty when he literally confessed to it and look where that got him. This is almost entirely self-inflicted, and it only just recently became the fault of someone else as they "try" to find him a home.

 

[AnOminous]

Seriously, though, I don't expect his status to change if he's in the custody of any sort of psychiatric care facility of any sort. I expect him to continue to be listed as "in custody", and we won't hear anything until next August.

I can't actually find the post from the time, but I thought he was listed as "released" when they put him in the loony bin. I think that would be how he would be listed whether he was sent to a psych facility or halfway house or outright released. It's possible he's getting some kind of treatment in jail, which would make his continued presence there less odd.

 

[Mr E. Grifter]

I have to be honest, even though Chris likely deserves it, the fact that anyone's spent almost eighteen months behind bars without any verdict is disturbing to me. I know civil cases take an eternity to play out, but had generally believed that criminal cases had a lot more haste behind them to prevent this exact state of affairs.

No expert, but usually in the US court system if people are incarcerated for long exceptionally long periods of time pre-trial it is down to them or their lawyers - rather than the system itself.

With that said, I think the idea of locking away people who aren't an immediate danger to themselves or others prior to conviction is needlessly over the top and cruel. Putting Chris in a strictly controlled assisted living facility would achieve much the same in terms of keeping him and others safe, and would be much less cruel.

 

[Ophelia]

I have to be honest, even though Chris likely deserves it, the fact that anyone's spent almost eighteen months behind bars without any verdict is disturbing to me. I know civil cases take an eternity to play out, but had generally believed that criminal cases had a lot more haste behind them to prevent this exact state of affairs.

I’d be more disturbed if he didn’t have such a good lawyer. If something was seriously wrong, it would behoove Heilberg to deal with it, and he knows how. Let Chris stew.

With that said, I think the idea of locking away people who aren't an immediate danger to themselves or others prior to conviction is needlessly over the top and cruel. Putting Chris in a strictly controlled assisted living facility would achieve much the same in terms of keeping him and others safe, and would be much less cruel.

It’s my understanding they’ve been trying and failing to find a place for him in one of those facilities. There aren’t enough of them and Chris is particularly peculiar.

 

[Mudkipcorn]

He was too busy whining to actually cooperate during the hearings, and could've easily been out by August with the trial done in January if he had just taken the plea and been done with it. But instead he chose to try and fight for not guilty when he literally confessed to it and look where that got him.

This is probably true, but it's still speculation. We don't know for sure if he was offered a plea deal, how those negotiations went, or what Chris' reaction was.

 

[JanuaryViolet]

Putting Chris in a strictly controlled assisted living facility would achieve much the same in terms of keeping him and others safe, and would be much less cruel.

Spoiler: sperge

]This assumes a place like that is available. They are very thin on the ground and frequently have a waiting list. Also, the place needs to be willing to take him, considering the level of attention he would require. The higher the level of supervision needed, the harder it is, and in the US there simply isn't the infrastructure in place for it in most instances. He would fail out of a halfway house or transitional living facility in short order. <powerlevel> I work in the court system in not-Virginia, and frequently see what happens with this sort of thing. This is a very difficult placement. </powerlevel> Right now med seg is not a bad place for him. He is not being "jailed without a trial" or "held without charges". If he wasn't there, he would be on the street. This might be entertaining for us in the short run, but in real terms it would be a disaster.

I don't have any sympathy for him, or really, almost anyone I see coming through the court. I am, however, tired of the court system being blamed for less than perfect outcomes when they are doing the best they can using the very limited and overloaded resources they have. A permanent placement for Chris would have to be:

• Secure facility, although one with varying levels of lockdown would do.
• Able to handle sex offenders
• Able to handle persons with intellectual disabilities (he checks the box for several issues)
• Able to handle persons with health issues (which he certainly has)
• Willing to deal with the whole 'trans' thing.
• Enough staff to keep an eye on him.
• Prepared to deal with an inmate who is both aging and vulnerable, yet who can exploit other less functional inmates.

In this jurisdiction, the only place that could handle someone like him is the state hospital, which is currently at full capacity and not really the place for him. The fact that he is a sex offender AND stupid enough to get taken in by almost anybody who is not as mentally backward as he is makes this difficult.

 

[King Kiwi]

Yeah, it's almost like they actually meant it when they gave him an autism deferral.

Seriously, though, I don't expect his status to change if he's in the custody of any sort of psychiatric care facility of any sort. I expect him to continue to be listed as "in custody", and we won't hear anything until next August.

So it's really going to take them another year to decide whether he's a fucking retard or not?

Hmm.

I might have to get a hobby.

 

[Mr E. Grifter]

Spoiler: sperge

]This assumes a place like that is available. They are very thin on the ground and frequently have a waiting list. Also, the place needs to be willing to take him, considering the level of attention he would require. The higher the level of supervision needed, the harder it is, and in the US there simply isn't the infrastructure in place for it in most instances. He would fail out of a halfway house or transitional living facility in short order. <powerlevel> I work in the court system in not-Virginia, and frequently see what happens with this sort of thing. This is a very difficult placement. </powerlevel> Right now med seg is not a bad place for him. He is not being "jailed without a trial" or "held without charges". If he wasn't there, he would be on the street. This might be entertaining for us in the short run, but in real terms it would be a disaster.

I don't have any sympathy for him, or really, almost anyone I see coming through the court. I am, however, tired of the court system being blamed for less than perfect outcomes when they are doing the best they can using the very limited and overloaded resources they have. A permanent placement for Chris would have to be:

• Secure facility, although one with varying levels of lockdown would do.
• Able to handle sex offenders
• Able to handle persons with intellectual disabilities (he checks the box for several issues)
• Able to handle persons with health issues (which he certainly has)
• Willing to deal with the whole 'trans' thing.
• Enough staff to keep an eye on him.
• Prepared to deal with an inmate who is both aging and vulnerable, yet who can exploit other less functional inmates.

In this jurisdiction, the only place that could handle someone like him is the state hospital, which is currently at full capacity and not really the place for him. The fact that he is a sex offender AND stupid enough to get taken in by almost anybody who is not as mentally backward as he is makes this difficult.

Just for clarity, I am not blaming whoever put him where he is - it may be the best option available for him that is available to the person making that decision.

Clearly, it's not the case that unlimited resources exist to deal with these people - but it is the case that the current situation is less than ideal.

I do still think the US uses pretrial detention to liberally, and that the Chris situation would fall under this. He's not a danger to society at large, and while he is not capable of caring for himself it's clear he isn't an immediate danger to himself.

This isn't a mercy for him either, prison at least feeds him and keeps a roof over him. Without that I have no doubt he would be homeless and probably dead.

 

[Ophelia]

I do still think the US uses pretrial detention to liberally, and that the Chris situation would fall under this. He's not a danger to society at large, and while he is not capable of caring for himself it's clear he isn't an immediate danger to himself.

Where would you put him? Right now, as things are. No places available, no hospital, no 14bc, no relatives who want him. What is your alternative to the current situation?

 

[JanuaryViolet]

it's clear he isn't an immediate danger to himself.

Au contraire. He's not a danger to himself in that he would try to harm himself (and probably not anyone else, either), BUT he IS a danger to himself inasmuch as he is not competent to handle himself on the streets. The homeless here would practically eat him alive. Even if they didn't physically harm him while relieving him of any material goods he may have at the moment, he could easily be duped into participating in criminal activity, given hard drugs or generally mistreated. He's irritating enough that he would wear out his welcome quickly. Any money he receives will be taken from him by more dominant people on the street, etc., etc., etc.

Note that this is not 'pretrial detention'. He's not getting a trial, he has some kind of plea deal that his lawyer worked out. He's admitted to what he did, now they just have to find a place to put him.

 

[mindlessobserver]

I have to be honest, even though Chris likely deserves it, the fact that anyone's spent almost eighteen months behind bars without any verdict is disturbing to me. I know civil cases take an eternity to play out, but had generally believed that criminal cases had a lot more haste behind them to prevent this exact state of affairs.

The State does have to show cause for these sorts of things. In this case everyone from Chris' own lawyer to his immediate family are quite okay with him being kept in a loony bin.

 

[NaggotFigger]

This is probably true, but it's still speculation. We don't know for sure if he was offered a plea deal, how those negotiations went, or what Chris' reaction was.

Usually when it comes to negotiations, Chris is beyond in his mind so much that he'll lash out at anyone, and that he doesn't take shit seriously. If Chris does actually receive a plea deal, then it could be him outright denying it in a unfriendly manner, and that everyone 'round him are all jerks, because of his extremely bloated ego.
He's just a narcisstic asshole whose only desire is to complete the Dimensional Merge and isolate himself away from everyone, and continually sticking himself in his CWCville fantasy, just like his previous years.

 

[AnOminous]

The State does have to show cause for these sorts of things. In this case everyone from Chris' own lawyer to his immediate family are quite okay with him being kept in a loony bin.

Possibly it's Chris himself who is responsible for his current incarceration. He hasn't objected to any of this.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Possibly it's Chris himself who is responsible for his current incarceration. He hasn't objected to any of this.

Yeah, but Chris has been a dependent child his entire life. I would be shocked if he understands he has the capability of objecting to this. He could tell his lawyer right now to get him out of the loony bin and the lawyer would be ethically bound to do just that.

He's complained about his treatment in past letters. But he's never actually gone so far as to actually give legitimate demand a court would have to listen too.

 

[AnOminous]

He's complained about his treatment in past letters. But he's never actually gone so far as to actually give legitimate demand a court would have to listen too.

I think he's been tard wrangled and in his own best interest. And I also don't think he's so retarded he couldn't object if he didn't feel like it.

He also isn't in a loony bin, he's in jail.

I think he's completely okay with being in jail and doesn't care. He's just too lazy to do anything about it.