Inactive Nick Bate / Nickalaus B. Stoutzenberger - (Thread 3: JUDGEMENT DAY)

[LiveFromNS]

Any chance the judge wanted a transcript so he could review evidence before making his decision on sentencing? I have seen that happen here where the transcript is used in that way.

But yeah, @AnOminous is correct, its most likely an appeal.

 

[AnOminous]

Any chance the judge wanted a transcript so he could review evidence before making his decision on sentencing? I have seen that happen here where the transcript is used in that way.

But yeah, @AnOminous is correct, its most likely an appeal.

This is why I think it's appeal-related.

Counsel for both sides agreed on appeal-related record on the day of the trial. They probably both knew it was likely.

It also seems to indicate they both knew what an appeal would be about. It might be about something like this.

I do not think Nick is likely to win on it.

Also, that's not actually about the Internet stuff (though that will probably show up on the appeal).

It's about out of court statements by Nick's victim.

 

[Corn Sake]

Will we have access to the trial transcript at some time?

 

[LiveFromNS]

Will we have access to the trial transcript at some time?

This came up on the Shaner shread. Oddly enough same State. Not sure what came of it.

Where a minor is involved, it may be redacted or possibly even sealed under a confidentiality order. If it has been filed though, it should be accessible by the public. It may take an actual trip to the Courthouse and search the file index and see a list of everything filed or if the case is denoted as subject to a privacy or confidentiality order. If so, then might be hard to obtain a copy.

This is how it is done in my city here in Canada. I can go to the Prothonotary and search by name, court file number etc and then fill out a slip and can view the entire file containing all documents and make copies at a fee.

@AnOminous would know how it works in US of course but just wanted to throw this in as if Nick was being charged here, I could view anything that was not sealed and even request a CD of the hearing.

 

[AnOminous]

Will we have access to the trial transcript at some time?

If someone buys a copy, yeah.

This came up on the Shaner shread. Oddly enough same State. Not sure what came of it.

Shaner's case was settled (at least for now). Transcripts of routine trial events generally only get created if what happened is contested.

 

[LiveFromNS]

Shaner's case was settled (at least for now). Transcripts of routine trial events generally only get created if what happened is contested.

Thanks man, usually here when we have a case involving a minor being sexually assaluted, initials are used and even the defendant is not named. You can find lots of Supreme Court of Canada decisions cited as R. v. C.W.C etc. Also publication bans exist if evidence is troubling or exhibits and documents may also be protected by a sealing order.

I guess the reason I would thinbk you could simply obtain a copy of the hearing transcript as it was not closed session and the victim's name was used in open Court and Nick is fully named in the style of cause.

Thus, my suggestion that may be a search of the file will show if there is an Order sealing access. The docket thing we look at is simply that correct? Its not a Pleadings Filing Log right?

Anyway, if people are interested in getting the transcript, to me if you can find out the above, you will have your answer I suppose. But again, may take a trip or a call to ask if it can be obtained.

 

[AnOminous]

Thanks man, usually here when we have a case involving a minor being sexually assaluted, initials are used and even the defendant is not named. You can find lots of Supreme Court of Canada decisions cited as R. v. C.W.C etc. Also publication bans exist if evidence is troubling or exhibits and documents may also be protected by a sealing order.

This is how it worked in the jurisdiction where I worked and the names of minor victims were also initialized in this manner. It was taken very seriously, it was actually illegal to fail to do it, and any records containing sensitive information were destroyed upon the termination of the case.

But hey, this is Pennsytucky, what do you expect?

 

[waffle]

The problem with getting a transcript is that they are very expensive. It could easily cost $3-500 to get one. That's what it would cost me if I wanted to appeal a case anyway. I don't know if they give the public a break.

 

[AnOminous]

The problem with getting a transcript is that they are very expensive. It could easily cost $3-500 to get one. That's what it would cost me if I wanted to appeal a case anyway. I don't know if they give the public a break.

In this case, the transcript is already made. That's the most expensive part. So at least subsequent copies are just a per page cost of some sort. It says two volumes. There is probably a maximum page length to keep each volume a manageable size. I believe the Pennsylvania rule is 200 pages, so the transcript of this case would be between 201 and 400 pages.

 

[waffle]

In this case, the transcript is already made. That's the most expensive part. So at least subsequent copies are just a per page cost of some sort. It says two volumes. There is probably a maximum page length to keep each volume a manageable size. I believe the Pennsylvania rule is 200 pages, so the transcript of this case would be between 201 and 400 pages.

See, here the court reporter can charge you at or near the full price for every copy even if they prepared it already

 

[LiveFromNS]

See, here the court reporter can charge you at or near the full price for every copy even if they prepared it already

Here is how it works, at least in my Province in Canada.

I attend Prothonotary and search for file on comp system. Fill out slip and request file. If I am solicitor of record, I can view free. If not, costs $8 bucks.

I then get the full file and can sit in a room and read everything. I can make copies at 75 cents per page. (Now I just take pics with my iPhone. LOL)

That's it. Unless the file is sealed, or certain docs within are, that would be all it would take for me to get the transcript if the freak was charged here.

Question is, can one do the same in Lancaster County, PA?

 

[Ana Phylaxis]

Just searched Lancaster County, PA's county court website and came across this.

Spoiler: Unabridged Contents

1.Does the public have access to transcripts?
An official court reporter is often directed by the presiding judge to prepare a transcript of proceedings when a case is appealed. If a transcript is prepared, the original will remain in the clerk of courts’ file in the case of a criminal matter and in the prothonotary’s file in the case of a civil matter. So long as the case is one to which the general public is granted access, anyone interested may read the testimony contained in a transcript. Because of the necessity to actually send a case’s file to a higher court for rulings on appeal issues, there are times when the public will temporarily not have access to the contents of a file.
2.How does one obtain a transcript of a proceeding?
Local, state and federal rules of court govern official court reporters' production of transcripts. Requests for transcripts must be submitted by form to the judge who presided at the hearing being requested. If the presiding judge approves the request for transcription, the court reporter will contact you and make arrangements for payment and delivery of transcript.

Transcript Order Form
3.Is there a cost for a transcript?
Local, state and federal rules of court also govern the fees charged by official court reporters for transcripts they produce. Again, because of the complexity of these rules it is best for a citizen to call the Office of Official Court Reporter for further information.

So it looks like a (semper fi) Kiwi would have to submit a form for Judge Spahn to approve even if the public does have access to the transcript. And the rules for pricing is so complex, the county doesn't even provide an estimate.

 

[LiveFromNS]

Nope.

So long as the case is one to which the general public is granted access, anyone interested may read the testimony contained in a transcript.

Go and ask to read the transcript. Assuming there isnt a guard standing over you, take photos of the pages with your iphone.

 

[WhoWhatWhere]

Nope.

Go and ask to read the transcript. Assuming there isnt a guard standing over you, take photos of the pages with your iphone.

What kind of trouble would there be if the pictures were found out? Or rather where would that fall legally if say the guard did walk back or someone stumbled upon the photos?

 

[AnOminous]

Question is, can one do the same in Lancaster County, PA?

Probably, although some courts force you to pay for copies if you want them. I've never got them from a Pennsylvania court before.

There will be at least two places this transcript exists, because the appeals court will get a copy along with the appendix to the appellate brief.

 

[LiveFromNS]

What kind of trouble would there be if the pictures were found out? Or rather where would that fall legally if say the guard did walk back or someone stumbled upon the photos?

Take the pictures, convert to PDF, do OCR and you have the text. Pics wont come into play.

I no longer pay to make copies of anything when I search a file. That's all I can tell you.

I don't know how things might work there, but if I was left alone to read the transcripts and there no signs stating specifically you could not take pics of documents, I'd have no problem doing it.

The worst they would do, if even caught, is tell you that couldn't be done. "Oh shit, sorry man, didn't see a sign stating it was prohibited. Is there a place I can make copies?"

Probably, although some courts force you to pay for copies if you want them. I've never got them from a Pennsylvania court before.

There will be at least two places this transcript exists, because the appeals court will get a copy along with the appendix to the appellate brief.

I know you told me before PACER is Federal so chance of finding it thru there is NIL I guess. I never really used PACER much so wasn't aware it was only Fed.

It would be nice though if it was available online. I use WestLaw Canada and in a number of cases the actual pleadings, affidavits, briefs and orders etc are accessible and downloadable.

I presume since we are talking backwoods, there isn't much chance of that I guess.

 

[AnOminous]

I presume since we are talking backwoods, there isn't much chance of that I guess.

The county court is more or less like a typical court. I know it might not look like that because of those ridiculous magistrate court's in double wide trailers and the like where the preliminary stuff occurred.

 

[FightTheMoose]

The worst they would do, if even caught, is tell you that couldn't be done. "Oh shit, sorry man, didn't see a sign stating it was prohibited. Is there a place I can make copies?"

Nah, the worst they can do is confiscate the phone if it turns out he can't take pictures. They'll probably hold onto the phone long enough to make sure there are none left on the physical device, but if they auto-upload to the cloud then there's probably nothing they can do.

 

[LiveFromNS]

Nah, the worst they can do is confiscate the phone if it turns out he can't take pictures. They'll probably hold onto the phone long enough to make sure there are none left on the physical device, but if they auto-upload to the cloud then there's probably nothing they can do.

Just go away. Law is being discussed, not your longing for pizza face.

 

[FightTheMoose]

Just go away. Law is being discussed, not your longing for pizza face.

Please don't bully me that much. It'll hurt my fragile ego. However, I do know a thing or two.