Secret 28 Pages of 9/11 Report Under New Scrutiny - Saudi Arabia is the worst country in the world, more news at 11

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pressure-builds-on-obama-administration-to-declassify-911-report/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/w...allout-if-congress-passes-9-11-bill.html?_r=0

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/secret-28-pages-9-11-report-under-new-scrutiny-n556831

Alright, so basically, there is a renewed push to declassify 28 pages of the 838-page congressional report on the worst terror attack on American soil. It is widely speculated that these pages point the blame towards Saudi Arabia. The links provided go into more detail, but it's worth noting that, of the 19 men behind the attacks, 15 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. Not to mention Osama Bin Laden himself. Saudi Arabia has pushed back, threatening to sell off hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of American assets if Congress passes a bill that would allow the Saudi government to be held responsible for any role in the attacks.

They are so fucking guilty. Even if they don't hold a direct role, Saudi Arabia has been exporting Islamic extremism in the form of Wahhabism for decades.

 

[AN/ALR56]

Not to mention the incredible inept military that has the same armaments as the American army and can't defeat Iranian trained rebels with 1960s weapons in Yemen, bleeding billions of $$$ and materiel that is captured by said rebels to attack Saudi cities with missiles and rockets as payback for the massacres they commit.
They are so lazy they are now hiring blackwater and Colombian mercs as cannon fodder.

 

[Marvin]

We're veering off-topic, but Saudi Arabia sucks so I don't care. So let's turn this into a "fuck Saudi Arabia" thread.

Anyway, I just read an interesting post on Reddit that highlights Saudi Arabia's imminent political collapse. Copypasta'd:

They have:

• an already high unemployment rate of 12%
• a rapidly growing population with millions of more jobs needed just to maintain current employment rates
• an economy where 80% of Saudi nationals work for the public sector or the state oil company.
• a government that was 90% funded by oil revenues
• an oil price that has collapsed by two thirds and isn't likely to increase substantially any time soon
• a population that has become accustomed to a very high standard of living, and will not accept the work ethic or lower living standards required in future
• a dysfunctional government system that is unwilling to undertake major reform to change this system
• a current monarch that is currently 80 with dementia, with no well defined system of succession and dozens of potential monarchs who will not want to lose out if the succession goes down another line
• a monarchy that only maintains its support because the people are doing economically well due to widespread knowledge of the corruption and venality of the royals
• an official system of legitimacy where the monarchy are supported in power because the clerics endorse them as being properly Islamic - an endorsement that can be removed at any moment if the clerics feel they are being harmed by the monarchy's unpopularity
• a culture of extreme hardline Islam, with much of the population wanting to return to an even more aggressive version of the faith, and something that could gain a lot more traction with young, angry, unemployed men.
• a complete absence of any moderate opposition, with the most likely alternative power bases being either Al-Qaeda or ISIS

And to elaborate on the 12% unemployment rate, it's probably much higher than that. First of all, the unemployment rate for women is probably like fucking 80% if not higher. Very few women work because they're not allowed to interact with men they're not related to. Also, remember "80% of Saudi nationals work for the public sector or the state oil company." It's a well-known fact that in Saudi Arabia, "working for the government" basically translates to "being on the dole." These jobs are usually the definition of "cushy." As for the real work, the majority of it is done by foreigners; the technical jobs are done by Americans and Europeans while the unskilled, manual jobs are done by poor migrants from Asia. From Wikipedia:



Oh, and they abuse the everloving shit out of these migrant workers, but the sad thing is these people are so poor and desperate they're willing to be abused if it means they can send money back to their families in their home countries. And as mentioned in the Wikipedia excerpt, most Saudis have absolutely no work ethic. It's a stark contrast to what we see in America, which absolutely idolizes work ethic and the self-made man; in Saudi Arabia, they absolutely refuse to do any sort of service job because they believe it's beneath them (just to give you an idea of how major the service industry is, 112.8 million Americans work in this sector; the sector itself accounts for 77.2% of all jobs in America). In other words, Saudis aren't willing to do the jobs that keep societies going.

tl;dr- Saudi Arabia is totally fucked. They've pissed away their oil money without actually investing in a sustainable infrastructure and a large percentage of their population are religious fanatics with no work ethic.

Yeah... like, if your country is pretty much a desert, you don't have the resources to support a large population.

So when you hit upon what amounts to a gold rush, you better sink that money into something that'll provide you with some longevity. UAE, in contrast, while still being comparably shitty on human rights issues, is at least investing their money into the local economy.

 

[Randall Fragg]

So basically, in 20 years Saudi Arabia is gong to be real life Mad Max?

 

[Ruin]

So basically, in 20 years Saudi Arabia is gong to be real life Mad Max?

With better beards yeah.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

9/11 was an inside job. Bush wanted oil.

 

[Cosmos]

9/11 was an inside job. Bush wanted oil.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

They are so fucking guilty. Even if they don't hold a direct role, Saudi Arabia has been exporting Islamic extremism in the form of Wahhabism for decades.

Even if the law is changed to allow foreign governments to be sued for culpability in American deaths, I don't think the Saudi government could credibly be found liable. 9/11 didn't serve Saudi foreign policy, and whatever else you may think of the Saudi royals, they are not stupid.

It's much more likely that low to mid level Saudi officials may have facilitated Al Qaeda, but they would have been doing so on their own initiative, not on instructions from their superiors. Similarly, it's unquestionable that private Saudi citizens funded Al Qaeda, and the government may not have especially cared to stop them. But once again, that's not an act of policy.

So ultimately Saudi may be guilty of negligence, but even the proposed law would not make them criminally liable in US courts. Moral liability, definitely - but then most people already consider them morally liable without any court action.

 

[AnOminous]

So ultimately Saudi may be guilty of negligence, but even the proposed law would not make them criminally liable in US courts. Moral liability, definitely - but then most people already consider them morally liable without any court action.

Actually, they are civilly liable to any victims of their torts under a number of theories of long-arm liability that have in the past been pursued in U.S. courts, one of the more prominent example being the hundreds of asset-related cases filed against Iran in the wake of the Iranian hostage crisis.

To some extent, such judgments can be satisfied by seizing assets of the foreign nation or nationals, and a certain amount of financial assets were in fact seized. Subsequently, the issues were resolved to a degree by the bilateral establishment of a tribunal to resolve related claims, and thousands of cases were adjudicated by that.

Unless the situation leading to deciding liability led to something that soured the diplomatic relationship even more seriously than that with Iran, which seems unlikely, a similar resolution would probably be reached eventually.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Actually, they are civilly liable to any victims of their torts under a number of theories of long-arm liability that have in the past been pursued in U.S. courts, one of the more prominent example being the hundreds of asset-related cases filed against Iran in the wake of the Iranian hostage crisis.

Was some special law passed at the time to allow Iran to be found liable? I thought it was a general principal that foreign goverments weren't subject.

Unless the situation leading to deciding liability led to something that soured the diplomatic relationship even more seriously than that with Iran...

That with Iran in the 80s, no less.

But going by the comments here, I think a lot of people would like to see the USA treat Saudi Arabia on par with Iran.

 

[Hyperion]

Was some special law passed at the time to allow Iran to be found liable? I thought it was a general principal that foreign goverments weren't subject.



That with Iran in the 80s, no less.

But going by the comments here, I think a lot of people would like to see the USA treat Saudi Arabia on par with Iran.

Its common knowledge that the majority of the hijackers were Saudi, bin laden was Saudi, and al Qaida is Saudi. It's not enough to prove anything in court but seriously fuck those guys.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Its common knowledge that the majority of the hijackers were Saudi, bin laden was Saudi, and al Qaida is Saudi. It's not enough to prove anything in court but seriously fuck those guys.

Sueing the Saudi government because some of its citizens were individually involved would be as ridiculous as France sueing Belgium because most of the Paris attackers were Belgian citizens. Saudi involvement with Al Qaeda goes deeper than just individual Saudis. I dunno if you can say "Al Qaeda is Saudi". It's true that a lot of Saudi government money went into what would become Al Qaeda in the 80s, but so did a lot of US money. And it's true that a lot of Saudi private money went into Al Qaeda since then, but again, that's a matter of individuals, not the Saudi government.

I'm not trying to create a countermyth. The best case scenario is that Saudi Arabia was incredibly negligent in its counter-terrorist funding procedures, especially pre 9-11. A more likely scenario is that they turned a blind eye because they didn't see Al Qaeda as a threat to them. But again, I'm not sure that crosses the boundary to criminal liability - if we applied that principle broadly, the USA would be on the hook for the Omagh bombings.

But just to reiterate, the participation of individual Saudis, even in large numbers, is the least significant indicator of Saudi government involvement.

 

[Cosmos]

But just to reiterate, the participation of individual Saudis, even in large numbers, is the least significant indicator of Saudi government involvement.

I agree with you. However, I do think the fact that 80% of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis is a big indicator of the level of radicalism within Saudi Arabia. No, we can't criminally prosecute the Saudi government for promoting said radicalism if they don't have a direct connection with any terror attacks, but still, I really do think it's time that we start calling Saudi Arabia out.

Unfortunately, there's no way the US, the UK, or any of Saudi Arabia's Western "allies" will do that because oil is more important than combating terrorism, I guess.

 

[AnOminous]

Was some special law passed at the time to allow Iran to be found liable? I thought it was a general principal that foreign goverments weren't subject.

It is both international law and U.S. law (with a number of exceptions similar to the exceptions related to the U.S. government itself as well as specific exceptions for material support for terrorism) that foreign sovereigns are generally immune to suit in U.S. courts. There have, though, been a lot of 9/11 related suits against banks, specific entities and others over 9/11, although suits against Saudi Arabia itself have been rejected.

I guess the fact that they’re considering such legislation now is why we’re talking about this.

(Iran’s liability was actually established in an ICJ case between the United States itself and Iran.)

 

[AN/ALR56]

I believe Saudi Arabia will collapse soon, the economy and the war in Yemen are going extremely bad for them, the king is dying with no clear sucessor so I predict some power struggle,there is no economy other than oil and the world is either developing new sources of energy or developing new sources of oil.

 

[Splendid]

Yeah, I foresee a power struggle over succession too. Are there any favorites for who will be considered the 'most legitimate' successor or who's likely to win?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Yeah, I foresee a power struggle over succession too. Are there any favorites for who will be considered the 'most legitimate' successor or who's likely to win?

The youngest two surviving children of Ibn Saud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Elah_bin_Abdulaziz_Al_Saud (77)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqrin_bin_Abdulaziz (70)
look like good picks considering that all the successive kings have been his children
Abdul Elah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud is seen as highly incompetent and loses credibility for having been impeached from government roles twice
Muqrin bin Abdulaziz has experience in government but he loses credibility due to his mother not being high status. But with him being one of the only surviving children of the first king it seems more likely that he will become the king. But with him being the youngest child of Ibn Saud and only having 30 more years max succession after him remains unclear

 

[Cosmos]

Apparently, Obama has "cleared the air" with Saudi Arabia.

Make of that what you will.

 

[AnOminous]

Apparently, Obama has "cleared the air" with Saudi Arabia.

Make of that what you will.

It means that he sucked off the Sauds at least as hard as Dubya used to.

 

[Ruin]

It means that he sucked off the Sauds at least as hard as Dubya used to.

Exactly how many more people have to die before the Saudi's are held responsible?

 

[niggers]

lol head of human rights or some shit at the un rite?