Not Just Bikes / r/fuckcars / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

[Amber the Hedgehog]

Nice argument, unfortunately it's invalid because Jason specifically defines "concrete medical center" to actually mean "inaccessible by anything other than driving".

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Alt text: Aerial view of sprawling medical centre surrounded by highways in Alberta, Canada
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One is reminded of Humpty Dumpty from Alice in Wonderland who says "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean." So yes, he's being disingenuous on purpose.

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Besides the unstated implication that big vehicles apparently don't exist in Amsterdam (unless there are some European vehicle regulations I'm unaware of), he says "But here in Canada" as if he's back in Canada now? I wonder why he's visiting.

In big European cities cars are either small to medium or vans. You get very little between that because parking a large car is a pain even without these anti car nitwits. Great deal of parking is either parallel parked road side or underground parking garages that are easier to navigate with smaller vehicles. Add to that expensive fuel and other economical insentives and smaller cars are preferred. Unless you really need something bigger and then you tend to go something big enough be multi functional rather than smallest you can get away with.

Note that tiny cars are still very rare. European people still want comfort, flexibility and safety that having some extra space gives. Barely anyone is interested in those cramped space saver cars that get shown around every once in while with all grandiose talking of easy parking, saving earth and so on. They are novelty for the rich and quirky.

 

[Rudolf's Friend]

I don’t know if anyone’s talked about this yet, but some of these urbanists think that they can bring down car usage by placing tolls on every road in their countries and they think this is a feasible idea.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

I don’t know if anyone’s talked about this yet, but some of these urbanists think that they can bring down car usage by placing tolls on every road in their countries and they think this is a feasible idea.

This is probably based on Japan where they have tollway highways that are so expensive nobody uses them heh.

There is a bit where they’re right - you can capture additional value from the commuters with more money with a toll lane - the commuters in their shitbox won’t pay but the asshole in his Maserati will. And then use that to fund busses for the dirty poor. And it can somewhat work but the money gets spent on bullshit without fail.

The cities they want already exist in the US - New York, parts of shitcago, Shitattle, Porkland, have densities in the urban core that are competitive with Europe - but too many niggers. That’s the real missing factor in the “good” cities heh.

 

[Path Wanderer]

Not to sound like Dennis Prager, but there seems to be some bizarre connection between anti-car people and socialism. Alan Fisher keeps liking socialist protests on Twitter and have I heard people burble about how anti-car development is a path to socialism. The latter is odd, as I take anti-car policies to be more pro local biz but I guess "good government strong" is their bottom line

 

[Skeletonized Cow]

Not to sound like Dennis Prager, but there seems to be some bizarre connection between anti-car people and socialism. Alan Fisher keeps liking socialist protests on Twitter and have I heard people burble about how anti-car development is a path to socialism. The latter is odd, as I take anti-car policies to be more pro local biz but I guess "good government strong" is their bottom line

It really is just peak midwit behavior. Both modern day "socialists" and "urbanists" know nothing about the stuff they claim to support. Instead, they're just swallowing whatever propaganda is put out by the grifters they've developed parasocial relationships with.

 

[quaawaa]

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Besides the unstated implication that big vehicles apparently don't exist in Amsterdam (unless there are some European vehicle regulations I'm unaware of), he says "But here in Canada" as if he's back in Canada now? I wonder why he's visiting.

It’s also telling that he compared a $100k SUV to a $40k car. If he compared a $100k European car like a 7-series/S-class or a X7/GLS, it’d show that they’re actually about the same length. Most people don’t own $100k cars.

I wonder what he’d say if he went to Monaco, the densest and most walkable country in Europe, and saw the enormous number of large SUVs, sedans, and supercars that its residents own.

Additionally, a 3-Series Estate is far less capable than the Lincoln Navigator. The Navigator holds 3-4 more people than the 3-series, which is a non-negotiable requirement for anyone who has more than three kids, i.e. the majority of Navigator owners. The Navigator also has more cargo space and is a capable tow vehicle (using safe American tow ratings rather than the optimistic European ones).

Also, and hilariously, a family of eight takes up less road space when they drive a Navigator than when they cycle (due to the separation required). Public transit is about the same road usage, but the family driving is more efficient than eight single people riding transit to different destinations. /r/fuckcars even posted a meme showing this (archived a few pages back) without realizing its implications.

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

Not to sound like Dennis Prager, but there seems to be some bizarre connection between anti-car people and socialism. Alan Fisher keeps liking socialist protests on Twitter and have I heard people burble about how anti-car development is a path to socialism. The latter is odd, as I take anti-car policies to be more pro local biz but I guess "good government strong" is their bottom line

Many of them have rather openly concluded that:

• The government needs to place restrictions on cars being produced
• The government needs to restrict vehicles/pickup trucks to only when they're "necessary"
• Taxes should be sharply raised on certain things
• Living spaces and workspaces should be downsized and consolidated
• The source of all their problems is corporate greed and literally nothing else

So I would say they're pretty socialist. (Socialist in the sense of being pro-economic control, and not, you know, actually caring about the working class)

 

[quaawaa]

The latter is odd, as I take anti-car policies to be more pro local biz but I guess "good government strong" is their bottom line

A strip mall filled with small businesses is hell to them, but 5th Avenue, Ginza, Oxford Street, and the Champs-Élysées are heavenly. Hilariously, from that list, only Oxford Street isn’t a stroad.

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

A strip mall filled with small businesses is hell to them, but 5th Avenue, Ginza, Oxford Street, and the Champs-Élysées are heavenly. Hilariously, from that list, only Oxford Street isn’t a stroad.

Oh my god. I'd had a thought bouncing around in my head but you put it into words.

I mean think about it. A zone in a city that's only for pedestrians where they can do all their shopping while walking around.

Hmmm, but wouldn't it be unpleasant if it rained? Let's put a roof over it. And maybe some aircon while we're at it, to make it even nicer even if its not raining.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Oh my god. I'd had a thought bouncing around in my head but you put it into words.

I mean think about it. A zone in a city that's only for pedestrians where they can do all their shopping while walking around.

Hmmm, but wouldn't it be unpleasant if it rained? Let's put a roof over it. And maybe some aircon while we're at it, to make it even nicer even if its not raining.

Its almost as if we have something like that- oh wait a mall. A type of establishment that is currently dying in most (not all) areas due to the extreme upkeep costs and small sizes of the stores inside.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Its almost as if we have something like that- oh wait a mall. A type of establishment that is currently dying in most (not all) areas due to the extreme upkeep costs and small sizes of the stores inside.

Oh but the mall is only dying because carbrains are-are not driving to it and if it was walkable it would survive just fine. Even though almost every mcall even in shitty transit cities is well served by at least busses (with many having light rail and even transit hubs).

Oh you mean the vast majority of people don’t just drive for driving’s sake and will avoid malls if there are more convenient ways to shop? Imagine my absolute shock.

It’s almost as if people buy cars as tools based on what they can afford.

Amusingly enough there WERE carbrains in the 50s - half the music from the era are basically love songs to Detroit steel and some get damn near “auto” erotic.

I don’t know if many such are written now beyond “look bitch I’m rich I can afford (weird car brand you never heard of)”

 

[Car Won't Crank]

It’s also telling that he compared a $100k SUV to a $40k car. If he compared a $100k European car like a 7-series/S-class or a X7/GLS, it’d show that they’re actually about the same length. Most people don’t own $100k cars.

I wonder what he’d say if he went to Monaco, the densest and most walkable country in Europe, and saw the enormous number of large SUVs, sedans, and supercars that its residents own.

Additionally, a 3-Series Estate is far less capable than the Lincoln Navigator. The Navigator holds 3-4 more people than the 3-series, which is a non-negotiable requirement for anyone who has more than three kids, i.e. the majority of Navigator owners. The Navigator also has more cargo space and is a capable tow vehicle (using safe American tow ratings rather than the optimistic European ones).

Also, and hilariously, a family of eight takes up less road space when they drive a Navigator than when they cycle (due to the separation required). Public transit is about the same road usage, but the family driving is more efficient than eight single people riding transit to different destinations. /r/fuckcars even posted a meme showing this (archived a few pages back) without realizing its implications.

There's simply no reasonable way to compare a full on body on frame SUV with a wagon that's derived from a unibody car chassis, Wagons are popular among car enthusaists because they're smaller and nimbler than full SUVs while also being practical. The lack of demand is how Euroland is able to get the M3 wagon which was never brought to the US. We get the X5M at least which when lowered looks like a wagon.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Many of them have rather openly concluded that:

• The government needs to place restrictions on cars being produced
• The government needs to restrict vehicles/pickup trucks to only when they're "necessary"
• Taxes should be sharply raised on certain things
• Living spaces and workspaces should be downsized and consolidated
• The source of all their problems is corporate greed and literally nothing else

So I would say they're pretty socialist. (Socialist in the sense of being pro-economic control, and not, you know, actually caring about the working class)

In the real world, even in particularly corrupt shitholes, most tax-raising schemes are there to solve budget issues, not necessarily to make people miserable. In the eyes of Jason & the Lycranauts, taxes are for punishing wrong-thinkers first and foremost. This goes for "extra licensing fees for cars", or "extra gas fee" or "congestion pricing" or fucking around with property taxes just to make parking lots uneconomical.

If you argued for a mandatory bicycle license to help support bicycle infrastructure, they'd find excuses as to why that's "carbrained" or whatever.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Oh but the mall is only dying because carbrains are-are not driving to it and if it was walkable it would survive just fine. Even though almost every mcall even in shitty transit cities is well served by at least busses (with many having light rail and even transit hubs).

Oh you mean the vast majority of people don’t just drive for driving’s sake and will avoid malls if there are more convenient ways to shop? Imagine my absolute shock.

It’s almost as if people buy cars as tools based on what they can afford.

Amusingly enough there WERE carbrains in the 50s - half the music from the era are basically love songs to Detroit steel and some get damn near “auto” erotic.

I don’t know if many such are written now beyond “look bitch I’m rich I can afford (weird car brand you never heard of)”

Look I may go to my local mall, but it's only for one small game store. It's not for the money makers like jcpennies or Macy's, nor is it out of my way to get there. A lot of malls are, are run down, and the shops usually don't have what they need say compared to a Target. There is a reason Sears is all but dead. When I walk into a Walmart, I have everything from groceries to toys, electronics, to ammo. A mall is far less convinent in that sense.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Look I may go to my local mall, but it's only for one small game store. It's not for the money makers like jcpennies or Macy's, nor is it out of my way to get there. A lot of malls are, are run down, and the shops usually don't have what they need say compared to a Target. There is a reason Sears is all but dead. When I walk into a Walmart, I have everything from groceries to toys, electronics, to ammo. A mall is far less convinent in that sense.

A lot of the fall of the department stores is more of a symptom of bigger problems--cost cutting by retailers, private equity destroying it, and the "over-retailed" gaslighting. Still tangentially related to the YWON stuff but not directly related.

For some reason or another, American malls never got into what other malls did worldwide, keeping one sort of food-focused anchor (grocery, hypermarket)...and I have all sorts of thoughts of malls and American retail but a lot of that is both powerleveling and off-topic.

 

[WelperHelper99]

A lot of the fall of the department stores is more of a symptom of bigger problems--cost cutting by retailers, private equity destroying it, and the "over-retailed" gaslighting. Still tangentially related to the YWON stuff but not directly related.

For some reason or another, American malls never got into what other malls did worldwide, keeping one sort of food-focused anchor (grocery, hypermarket)...and I have all sorts of thoughts of malls and American retail but a lot of that is both powerleveling and off-topic.

I understand. Still it says something, even when you gather up all the shops, both big and small, unless you have an unusual amount of support (speaking as an American) like the mall i frequent, it doesn't matter if its 'carbrained' or walk in, people like going to bigger and better shops with more things instead of several smaller ones. And not just that, I think some of it is to due with driving. On one hand, making a ton of stops sucks. But if they're packed close together, its fun to drive, listen to the radio, take a break from the bustle of the shops and city around you.

 

[DavidS877]

There is a bit where they’re right - you can capture additional value from the commuters with more money with a toll lane - the commuters in their shitbox won’t pay but the asshole in his Maserati will. And then use that to fund busses for the dirty poor. And it can somewhat work but the money gets spent on bullshit without fail.

As one of the assholes(although my Maserati hasn't arrived yet) I'll happily pay the toll to use the lanes the poors can't use. I go to cities so infrequently it's worth it for me to bypass traffic. But Portland, where these express toll lanes would be nice has instead decided to toll all lanes. Fuck the poors I guess.

 

[WelperHelper99]

As one of the assholes(although my Maserati hasn't arrived yet) I'll happily pay the toll to use the lanes the poors can't use. I go to cities so infrequently it's worth it for me to bypass traffic. But Portland, where these express toll lanes would be nice has instead decided to toll all lanes. Fuck the poors I guess.

Toll lanes are interesting, and could generate revenue for the city. But really it just comes down to for me if they get used or not. What's the point of building a road if like 2 people use it? That said, it would speed up traffic for those who paid, which is a plus.

 

[DavidS877]

Toll lanes are interesting, and could generate revenue for the city. But really it just comes down to for me if they get used or not. What's the point of building a road if like 2 people use it? That said, it would speed up traffic for those who paid, which is a plus.

In Portland they're not adding new roads, maybe some small capacity increase. They're claiming "we're using this money to repair bridges" on the 2 main existing freeways. And then tolling all lanes. Basically "fuck cars" Where there are surface streets to bypass the tolls neighborhoods are going to be fucked.

 

[WelperHelper99]

In Portland they're not adding new roads, maybe some small capacity increase. They're claiming "we're using this money to repair bridges" on the 2 main existing freeways. And then tolling all lanes. Basically "fuck cars" Where there are surface streets to bypass the tolls neighborhoods are going to be fucked.

Which is why toll lanes as a whole are stupid. If it was being used correctly, alright. But its not. They have the money, they take enough in taxes, they're just being corrupt. Something the fuckcars crowd wouldn't understand.