Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

[Badungus Kabungus]

Western "world order" is built on lies, that is true. Also on military supremacy of the US.
Regardless of this being a truth, Putin and Russia have no better alternative to offer. Western world order slowly imposes globalization and ruthless capitalism where humans as drones produce so the rich can profit. It's dehumanizing and horrific, but it's better in any way compared to living under the Russians and needing to defend your lands at the cost of thousands of lives, most of them young males, the most precious resource a country has.
Eventually, the West has to be fixed, or it will lose all its legitimacy, most of it already gone by now. There is no accusation against Russia that cannot be levied against the West, and this behavior is what allows Russia to demand that it too can engage in subjugating others and committing atrocities.
When you peel the propaganda layers off, all that remains is the eternal struggle for power. And that struggle is rather binary, with friends and enemies, and winning or losing.

What US military supremacy? America haven't won a war in 20 years and is no longer capable of protecting its client states. We're seeing in real time how a country transitions from a global super power to an isolationist regional power.

Blinken himself admitted they had to withdraw from Afghanistan as they could not support both Afghanistan and Ukraine at the same time. Now what if they add Taiwan and Kosovo into the mix?

Hiding behind the Americans is no longer an option for Europe. If you want to stop Putin, pick up a rifle and go volunteer.

 

[BULLY HUNTER_78]

Nukes are not weapons, they're more like a machine gun in a MMA fight - sure you can 100% win but at the cost of getting 25 to life. Nobody has the balls to use nukes because they know they'll go into history as Super Mecha Death Hitler and their country will be reduced to bottom bitch status by the rest of the world, forever.

Nobody really wants to nuke St. Petersburg or Moscow despite the fact it would break Russia overnight by doing so. It's not only astronomically bad PR but the equivalent of slaughtering all the scholars and craftsmen of a city you want to conquer.

Nukes are good for killing millions of people, making land uninhabitable and making yourself the bad guy, things you don't want in modern warfare. It's more comfy to steal their money and let them starve, then blame them for asking for it.

So in short Britain has as much balls to use nukes as Putin does i.e. nada.

No, they can't just give up Ukraine. They will be shown no mercy if they do, I'm afraid.

Nukes are used in the face of an existential threat. You use them when you know that you as a political entity are done.

Unfortunately that's how Russia perceives this. They invaded because they were about to have NATO forces on their border backed up by a bellicose country ready to serve as its spearhead. The US president has called for removing the country's head and senior US officials have been open about their desire to undermine Russia, break up the federation into petty warring ethnostates. And the USA has enough form of military aggression and colour revolutions to in no way pull a "that's just talk". People in the West don't seem to get Russia's point of view at all. To them this is an existential thread.

The only country to ever use nukes aggressively is the USA and they've been pursuing the goal of nuclear primacy - i.e. the ability to launch a nuclear first strike so overwhelming that there can't be a counter-strike - for the last couple of decades.

Russia would use nuclear weapons if they felt they were actually under an existential threat. And the US leaders and foreign policy seem determined to make Russia feel so. I don't share your faith that it can't happen.

I think there's room for both of you to be right. Nukes can be both a weapon of last resort and a PR nightmare to use.

@demicolon
I definitely agree that odds heavily favor nukes not being used because their use is almost all downsides and it's really only a card you play when you have nothing to lose.

@Overly Serious
I also agree with your point that the current global situation has us too close to nuclear war - even it's only a 1% probability, that's too high of a chance and we're definitely closer to global nuclear war than we ever were during the cold war because at least then we weren't dumb enough to get into a hot war with Russia.

I think three things need to happen before the nukes start flying.
1) Putin is about to be ousted by a US-backed revolution.
2) Putin is petty enough to give the order to launch the nukes as a retaliation.
3) The order isn't ignored anywhere in the chain of command.

Since they're such a PR nightmare to use, I frankly can't think of a scenario in which the US launches them first. The US has way more to lose than Russia (both in terms of GDP and international standing) and the US is also financially benefiting from the war (well, at least the oligarchs that matter are financially benefiting). Coincidentally, this is also why Israel will never nuke Palestine or Iran first, but you could bet your ass that Hamas would immediately nuke Israel if they ever got their hands on one. Iran, like Russia, currently has too much to lose.

 

[thrasymachus]

Ukraine is winning, right?

Yes Zelenskyiy has Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Vladivostok surrounded.

 

[draggs]

Western "world order" is built on lies, that is true. Also on military supremacy of the US.
Regardless of this being a truth, Putin and Russia have no better alternative to offer. Western world order slowly imposes globalization and ruthless capitalism where humans as drones produce so the rich can profit. It's dehumanizing and horrific, but it's better in any way compared to living under the Russians and needing to defend your lands at the cost of thousands of lives, most of them young males, the most precious resource a country has.
Eventually, the West has to be fixed, or it will lose all its legitimacy, most of it already gone by now. There is no accusation against Russia that cannot be levied against the West, and this behavior is what allows Russia to demand that it too can engage in subjugating others and committing atrocities.
When you peel the propaganda layers off, all that remains is the eternal struggle for power. And that struggle is rather binary, with friends and enemies, and winning or losing.

Is 0.25% of the west's population reeeing on the internet about their need to touch grass really a loss of legitimacy? Talk to normal people about blah blah blah muh both sides muh ruthless globulismo Ron paultard shit about how it's all baked into duh systum and they'll either ignore you or look at you like you're a weirdo, which you are

Vatniggers aren't going to stop calling you a faggot no matter how many fence posts you try to straddle with your bussy

Western world order is built on free-ish trade and liberal societies which increased life expectancy and standard of living for the whole world to a ridiculous degree in two generations so good luck arguing with it

 

[demicolon]

I think three things need to happen before the nukes start flying.

I think one thing is enough:
1) Western talking heads go full retard overdrive on painting Putin as Voldemort and Hitler in one and Russians as orcs having to be exterminated for greater good, thus wiping any bad taste from their mouths about going nuclear as a last fuck you.

 

[draggs]

I think one thing is enough:
1) Western talking heads go full retard overdrive on painting Putin as Voldemort and Hitler in one and Russians as orcs having to be exterminated for greater good, thus wiping any bad taste from their mouths about going nuclear as a last fuck you.

I think these old men can manage to control themselves better than autists on the internet, after their old man predecessors spent 5 decades talking shit and poking each other much worse than they do now

 

[AgendaPoster]

Is 0.25% of the west's population reeeing on the internet about their need to touch grass really a loss of legitimacy? Talk to normal people about blah blah blah muh both sides muh ruthless globulismo Ron paultard shit about how it's all baked into duh systum and they'll either ignore you or look at you like you're a weirdo, which you are

Vatniggers aren't going to stop calling you a faggot no matter how many fence posts you try to straddle with your bussy

Western world order is built on free-ish trade and liberal societies which increased life expectancy and standard of living for the whole world to a ridiculous degree in two generations so good luck arguing with it

Obnoxious post with unwarranted assumptions, like thinking that I am on the fence when it comes to Russia, or that I care what Russians call me.
Liberal societies is your typical weasel word nebulous crap that you can make into whatever the fuck you want.
So let's have a CLEAR discussion on what liberal society means, shall we?
- should the state allow the progressive lies around gender and the erasure of biological sex?
- should marriage be altered to include homosexuals and troons?
- should homosexuals be allowed to adopt children and educate them into being accepting of homosexuality and related habits?
- should a country have the right to police its demographic makeup, including expulsions of minorities that act in a rebellious manner and refusal to allow foreigners with different cultures?
Do not dare to bind technological progress which has resulted in the increase in quality of life with the social "progress" lunacy, i.e. giving degenerates "rights".
Being NORMAL does not have any relation to being pro-Russian in any way. The West WAS normal-ish. Even in the 90s.
Now, the loss of legitimacy comes from a number of issues, many related to COVID, when a lot of Western societies decided to criminally bully their people because of a dumb injection that didn't even do what was designed to. In the Baltics people were ostracized to the margins of society in the most illiberal, authoritarian manner. In the Netherlands people were crushed by police horses and arrested for daring to speak up and protest, which was allegedly their right.
In the fucking US a coalition of shitlibs progressives and various other social scum have legitimized mass BLM riots during a fucking pandemic, completely destroying the credibility of the medical system, which happens to be MY profession. An added insult after delegitimizing it through the lies of gender.
You do not want me to continue, trust me.

 

[draggs]

Obnoxious post with unwarranted assumptions, like thinking that I am on the fence when it comes to Russia, or that I care what Russians call me.
Liberal societies is your typical weasel word nebulous crap that you can make into whatever the fuck you want.
So let's have a CLEAR discussion on what liberal society means, shall we?
- should the state allow the progressive lies around gender and the erasure of biological sex?
- should marriage be altered to include homosexuals and troons?
- should homosexuals be allowed to adopt children and educate them into being accepting of homosexuality and related habits?
- should a country have the right to police its demographic makeup, including expulsions of minorities that act in a rebellious manner and refusal to allow foreigners with different cultures?
Do not dare to bind technological progress which has resulted in the increase in quality of life with the social "progress" lunacy, i.e. giving degenerates "rights".
Being NORMAL does not have any relation to being pro-Russian in any way. The West WAS normal-ish. Even in the 90s.
Now, the loss of legitimacy comes from a number of issues, many related to COVID, when a lot of Western societies decided to criminally bully their people because of a dumb injection that didn't even do what was designed to. In the Baltics people were ostracized to the margins of society in the most illiberal, authoritarian manner. In the Netherlands people were crushed by police horses and arrested for daring to speak up and protest, which was allegedly their right.
In the fucking US a coalition of shitlibs progressives and various other social scum have legitimized mass BLM riots during a fucking pandemic, completely destroying the credibility of the medical system, which happens to be MY profession. An added insult after delegitimizing it through the lies of gender.
You do not want me to continue, trust me.

Yes, obnoxious. Good you noticed

These questions are all handled by citizens acting in an open society, as opposed to top down favor or disfavor like you seem to be advocating. And yes there is nebulousness, that's the point. We have the ability to change instead of stagnate

I did not tie material progress to any such thing

Now the reaction to these excesses has been free people making free decisions, at least in America. The medical authority complex is in tatters here thanks to coof tyrants. Your mileage may vary in yurp wastelands, but even there people have not wholly forgotten that they are due liberty

I do want you to continue, believe me

 

[GoPro]

Lmao nigger, their capital stands on this river, as well as 95% of the regions uncontrolled by Russia; what the fuck are you talking about?
View attachment 4161612

Dnieper is far less economically valuable if Russia has control over the river's mouth. Zaporohzia and Kherson are what would grant Russia that control. Ukraine would not send shipments down the river when Russia can block the sea access on a whim. Especially after Russia breached Black Sea Grain Initiative this October by attacking Ukrainian barges. That only stopped after Turks intervened and began guarding Ukrainian grain.
Shipping goods using roads and rail to Odessa would be the only reliable but far more expensive option. Besides usual fuel and upkeep costs, Ukraine would likely need a large investment to upgrade land shipping routes so they can accommodate all traffic that used to rely on waterways. This means Ukraine either accepts reduced profit margins or raises prices on exports and becomes less competitive as a result. Either option would be a drain on Ukrainian economy.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Yes, obnoxious

These questions are all handled by citizens acting in an open society, as opposed to top down favor or disfavor like you seem to be advocating

I did not tie material progress to any such thing

Now the reaction to these excesses has been free people making free decisions, at least in America. The medical authority complex is in tatters here thanks to coof tyrants. Your mileage may vary in yurp wastelands, but even there people have not wholly forgotten that they are due liberty

I do want you to continue, believe me

Open society is yet another nebulous term, and suspiciously correlated to Soros and not so vaguely indicating freedom of movement is to be a right above preserving demographic makeup.
You didn't answer any of the concrete questions, as expected, as most in this topic have no actual convictions they're happy espousing. So I see no reason to go further offtopic, even though the "Decadent West" is one of the main attack points in Russian propaganda and deeply related to the war. You cannot unbind the "coof tyranny" from social progressivism. It was only libs and their allies that wrote the letter that racial justice is more important than putting a hold to the pandemic. All is related.
Open your topic about the West's flaws, as ambiguous that is, and we'll discuss at length, if you feel it's important.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

What the fuck are you even talking about? The supposed accident with Ukraine's air defense system that killed two people? I say "supposed" because I'm not convinced it wasn't a Russian missile that did it, with NATO blaming Ukraine as a way for Russia to save face. Either way it was an collateral damage and no one stupid enough to think anyone is going to start a nuclear war over it. Read the history of the Cold War, far worse has happened at times with even greater tensions and WWIII was still averted.

I mean, sure that incident counts, about which Ukraine still knowingly lies to this day to start a nuclear war between Nato and Russia, but you could also use literally any time Zelensky shilled for actions that would result in a nuclear war, like speeches demanding pre-emptive US attacks on Russia (which his ministry then had to walk back), or other similar acts of Nato intervention (closed skies, for example).

I promise to post war footage from Moscow once NATO supplies Ukraine with long range missiles

HIMARS and GMLRS were sent.

@Useful_Mistake pretty fucking rad.

You can always trust an American to only do the cool war crimes.

If any of you threadban @AgendaPoster, I am going to be pretty cross. Like... real cross.

Few off topic reees aside (one of which he admitted was off topic) he wasn't really a problem user. I don't see any need to threadban him.

The thread contains hundreds of aggressive attacks at everything Ukrainian and is obviously infected with the vatnik plague.

That's kinda ironic given your repeated anti-ukrainian sentiments.

How do you even get banned from a containment thread?

Constant slapfighting, after repeated warnings, is pretty much the only way to get banned from here (that is not a promise that you won't get banned for something else, rather just an admission that this is the most common ban reason). From the A&N thread, you'd have to repeatedly talk off topic (articles and their discussions).

By now it is clear that peace was never an option on the West's table.

Most critically, the military aid we provide Ukraine helps to protect and advance American national security interests in the region and beyond. America has an abiding interest in stemming Russian expansionism, and resisting any nation’s efforts to remake the map of Europe by dint of military force, even as we have tens of thousands of troops stationed there. Moreover, as one witness put it during our impeachment inquiry: “The United States aids Ukraine and her people so that they can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia here.”

Adam Schiff - US congresman

Read Adam Schiff's opening argument at Senate impeachment trial

Read his full opening argument.

www.politico.com

 

[AgendaPoster]

That's kinda ironic given your repeated anti-ukrainian sentiments.

I do admit that I am finding it difficult to respond to this accusation.

 

[Disheveled-Human]

I can't wait for the next failed Russian Offensive and the faggot pro-russian shills to exclaim how it was a masterfully executed diversion tactic.

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

I can't wait for the next failed Russian Offensive and the faggot pro-russian shills to exclaim how it was a masterfully executed diversion tactic.

You think it will be before or after Jim dies?

 

[Useful_Mistake]

I do admit that I am finding it difficult to respond to this accusation.

Aside from thinking that Ukraine never did anything wrong ever, every post you made about it's people, and the opinions, and hopes, of its people has been nothing but negative.

Anyway:
"Russian citizens who have fled to the Netherlands for fear of being mobilized in their home country no longer have a self-evident right to stay in the Netherlands, State Secretary Eric van der Burg announced on Wednesday."

That's interesting, though I'm unsure as to why they chose the Dutch. That aside the reasonings seem fair:
"These Russians no longer have to fear being called up for military operations, the Ministry of Justice and Security stated. This is because the "Russian Defense Minister has announced that the mobilization has been completed, and instructed the military units to halt mobilization work as of October 31," the ministry wrote."

And that aside they allowed them half of a year to prepare to leave:

"They may remain in the Netherlands for the time being. This moratorium on asylum decisions and deportation for Russian conscripts was extended by six months by the state secretary on Wednesday."

Netherlands can deport Russians seeking asylum over forced military mobilization | NL Times | Ghostarchive

ghostarchive.org

Mayor of Poltava charged with sharing classified information.
Livemap
(Livemap Archive)
Yahoo Link
(Yahoo Archive)
Innocent mistake or intentional disclosure of OPSEC to Russia?

"Security Service of Ukraine accused mayor of Poltava Mamai of sharing restricted information about Ukrainian Armed Forces"

"According to preliminary information, the charges are because Mamai allegedly revealed the formation of a new military unit in Poltava, and provided the address of its headquarters."

Very interesting. More and more traitors amongst Ukrainians (if true)

 

[Return of the Freaker]

Very interesting. More and more traitors amongst Ukrainians (if true)

Would you fight so that President Greenscreen Kikeberg can buy more mansions off American tax money and selling your homeland to Blackrock?

 

[Overly Serious]

Spoiler: Imagine Putin here getting questioned

I might believe Russia nuking a foreign army on Russian territory, but not Manhattan or Silicon Valley.

The point isn't to fire your own nukes at your own country. You fire them at the other country.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Personally, I don't like the western liberal order either. Putins vision of its replacement however is not something I like either. In many ways its far worse.

Is there something you like at all bro? Anything? You must be a ray of sunshine at every birthday party.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Lmao nigger, their capital stands on this river, as well as 95% of the regions uncontrolled by Russia; what the fuck are you talking about?
View attachment 4161612

Are you just needlessly contrarian? What good is a river if another country controls the exit point? The entire utility of a river system is access to the world ocean. If Ukraine gives up Kherson, it gives up the exit point. Russia controls the river.

 

[Doinker Marmalade]

I can't wait for the next failed Russian Offensive and the faggot pro-russian shills to exclaim how it was a masterfully executed diversion tactic.

Can't wait for the next successful Ukrainian offensive and the faggot pro-Ukraine shills to exclaim how it was a masterfully executed trap.... wait what.