Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

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Lvov is rightful Polish clay, bruh. It'll be positioned as a "peacekeeping" operation, if it were to ever happen.


Another thing to consider is how much an operation of such scale will cost the western taxpayer. Also Ukraine does not have the manpower to do anything of such a scale at this point, even considering the mercenaries and the fact that western weapons often come with attached crews.
Full on war would be mutual economic destruction even with NATO budget, deployment of futher gear, training and intelligence won't be cheap.

Russia isn't stupid enough to provoke full on NATO intervention, Russia invaded Ukraine just for applying for membership.

Russia shouldn't be worried. Ukraine is corrupt that puts Turkey to shame and their military is below standard, post soviet gear equipped rag tag of a standing army when compared to other countries with mandatory military service.
 
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Supposedly the training is already happening.

The problem with giving them F-16s from what I understand is multi-fold:

First the area is rotten with AA. You'd need to pretty much take off in Poland that's a slight exaggeration you fags.
Second, Ukraine's Airforce has still manages to perform some support ops - just very limited - but they are able to do this because of very experienced pilots. You aren't going to be replicate years of experience without....years of experience. American fighters and soviet-lineage fighters are very different, so the experience doesn't really carry over.
Third, fighters are not cheap. Even an F-16 is still $20 million or so, and requires heavy maintenance for every hour of flight, and that's before you factor in taking fire. That is money the might be better used elsewhere.
Fourth, Ukraine is more than holding its own against Russia, but they are still slavs. The F-16 isn't state of the art, but there's still a lot things, like engines, that wouldn't be a good idea to let Iran get 3-D scans of. And that's to say nothing of weapons.
Fifth, lets be honest - if a Ukrainian F-16 gets whacked by an S400, its going to look bad for sales.


The problem with giving them Abrams is only some foreign exports don't run on JP-8. You can't just take the decommed Marine armored brigade's tanks and drop them off, Ukraine's logistics are not set up for JP-8. So unless you are doing a full rip-and-replace - which would mean their T-series need to be refitted to JP8 or retired/replace - that won't fly.
They could get vehicles from ze ghermins ... if they had any (kek). They are getting some light armor from France.
But the real issue is you need to be concerned about Slav grifting, as outlined above.
The other issue with sending Abrams to Ukraine is the engine. The Abrams engine ain't Grampa Ivan's Soviet truck engine retrofitted for more horsepower and largely unchanged since the 1950s.

The thing is in a league of its own, and is in fact largely unique when it comes to ground based propulsion systems. It's got alot of "fiddly bits" that require its own dedicated mechanics and repair shops. For the US Army, the idea that you need dedicated mechanics and supply chains for the tanks as opposed to everything else is a shoulder shrug. But this is not how the Soviet Army and the current Ukrainian Army function. If an Abrams broke down in Ukraine, they would not be able to repair it.

Never mind keeping it fueled. As you pointed out it needs a particular blend to work.

This is why the US has been pretty free with handing over fancy artillery systems, but not armored or aviation units. Unless there is a dedicated support infrastructure for them already in place the things would be worse then useless. They would be white elephants for the Ukrainian Army.
 
. The F-16 isn't state of the art, but there's still a lot things, like engines, that wouldn't be a good idea to let Iran get 3-D scans of. And that's to say nothing of weapons.
3-D scans or even having an undamaged engine or ASEA radar don't count for shit if your tech base isn't up to snuff. For aviation engines major obstacle have been metallurgy which still a major problem for everyone not the USA and England.
Fifth, lets be honest - if a Ukrainian F-16 gets whacked by an S400, its going to look bad for sales.
Still infinitely better to being a cunt refusing to supply any aircraft. A F-16 getting shoot down doesn't matter as it is the cost of doing business. Already some of of the newer donated hardware been destroyed in combat and those did not effect sales of them at all.

The problem with giving them Abrams is only some foreign exports don't run on JP-8. You can't just take the decommed Marine armored brigade's tanks and drop them off, Ukraine's logistics are not set up for JP-8. So unless you are doing a full rip-and-replace - which would mean their T-series need to be refitted to JP8 or retired/replace - that won't fly.
Bull fucking shit as Abrams can and is run on diesel and other fuels due to the turbine being a multi-fuel engine. As the Australian, Egyptian and other militaries run their Abrams on diesel.
They could get vehicles from ze ghermins ... if they had any (kek). They are getting some light armor from France.
Light armor is no substitute for medium or heavy armor. Since Europe goat fucked their own militaries and weapon manufacturing for the past several decades, only country with large quantities of surplus hardware is the USA. 2,000 Bradleys and iirc over 3,000 Abrams are in storage. As it Ukraine have been getting mostly penny packets of hardware from West Europe.
 
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Russia shouldn't be worried. Ukraine is corrupt that puts Turkey to shame and their military is below standard, post soviet gear equipped rag tag of a standing army when compared to other countries with mandatory military service.

That was accurate until about 2014. Getting little green men'd + Putin's cronies being sent packing gave them a wake-up call they actually answered to the complete disbelief of everyone. NATO reports gave them two weeks, and jaws hit the floor, including mine, when they turned back Russia's thrust.

Their military got a house cleaning, they seem to have actually listened to the green berets sent to train their troops. The mad-lads went and actually upgraded their military hardware instead of doing the usual slav thing of selling off the upgrade kits. There was a further purging of anyone in command who kind of drug their feet post invasion, fairweather generals looking to see if they could work out a deal for surrendering.

They are still Slavs, fighiting other Slavs, and even more corrupt than you say.
Also, while some generals do believe in the Ukrainian cause, some of them have ordered assaults that make Putin sort of scratch his head and say "Do care even a little about the men under your command?" - but that's any military.

The Western weapons are helping. The foreign bridage is helping. But Ukrainians are still carrying most of the weight.
And they are fighting Russia instead of a competent military, which definitely helps.

The other issue with sending Abrams to Ukraine is the engine. The Abrams engine ain't Grampa Ivan's Soviet truck engine retrofitted for more horsepower and largely unchanged since the 1950s.

The thing is in a league of its own, and is in fact largely unique when it comes to ground based propulsion systems. It's got alot of "fiddly bits" that require its own dedicated mechanics and repair shops. For the US Army, the idea that you need dedicated mechanics and supply chains for the tanks as opposed to everything else is a shoulder shrug. But this is not how the Soviet Army and the current Ukrainian Army function. If an Abrams broke down in Ukraine, they would not be able to repair it.

Never mind keeping it fueled. As you pointed out it needs a particular blend to work.

This is why the US has been pretty free with handing over fancy artillery systems, but not armored or aviation units. Unless there is a dedicated support infrastructure for them already in place the things would be worse then useless. They would be white elephants for the Ukrainian Army.

Having worked with tank doctors... look they can teach anyone with a HS diploma how to fix a tank in a couple months. The bits are fiddly, but as long as you have the bits (and the fiddle) its not like you're doing surgery. They could train Ukrainian mechanics to work on Abrams.

The bigger problem is, as you said, you'd need to send the Tanks AND the bits AND trust slavs to not just walk off with the spare parts.

If this was '24 or '25 Poland could have helped, as they are working on the rip and replace of their armor to Abrams and I believe its the JP8. But the first deliveries are likely coming too late to make a difference in the current conflict.
 
That was accurate until about 2014. Getting little green men'd + Putin's cronies being sent packing gave them a wake-up call they actually answered to the complete disbelief of everyone. NATO reports gave them two weeks, and jaws hit the floor, including mine, when they turned back Russia's thrust.

Their military got a house cleaning, they seem to have actually listened to the green berets sent to train their troops. The mad-lads went and actually upgraded their military hardware instead of doing the usual slav thing of selling off the upgrade kits. There was a further purging of anyone in command who kind of drug their feet post invasion, fairweather generals looking to see if they could work out a deal for surrendering.

They are still Slavs, fighiting other Slavs, and even more corrupt than you say.
Also, while some generals do believe in the Ukrainian cause, some of them have ordered assaults that make Putin sort of scratch his head and say "Do care even a little about the men under your command?" - but that's any military.

The Western weapons are helping. The foreign bridage is helping. But Ukrainians are still carrying most of the weight.
And they are fighting Russia instead of a competent military, which definitely helps.



Having worked with tank doctors... look they can teach anyone with a HS diploma how to fix a tank in a couple months. The bits are fiddly, but as long as you have the bits (and the fiddle) its not like you're doing surgery. They could train Ukrainian mechanics to work on Abrams.

The bigger problem is, as you said, you'd need to send the Tanks AND the bits AND trust slavs to not just walk off with the spare parts.

If this was '24 or '25 Poland could have helped, as they are working on the rip and replace of their armor to Abrams and I believe its the JP8. But the first deliveries are likely coming too late to make a difference in the current conflict.

Problem being are commanders and roll of dice whenever they're type of take bribes and disregard troops on the ground. I live in Slavic society it's 50/50 whenever commanders get drunk on power or not. Ones who work in ditches are another matter.

One weakness are Ukrainan cyber division which is still lagging behind dime a dozen retro fitted civilian drones over defacto military drones and anti drone warfare against Iranian shit heap drones.

If Ukrainan reports are to believed Russians are surrendering by battalion and Russian hired PMCs are suffering great losses.

Ukraine is slowly moving towards drone warfare and missiles.
Ukraine lacks Russia's capability and launch platform to shower entire regions with rockets.

Correct if I'm wrong, patriot missiles are purely defensive.

I'm not overly familiar with US armament, since I only have pioneer background with no contact with US military.
 
Explains a lot

Ukranians are good at lies, and exporting sex-workers

Sure, Ukraine has destroyed the DPR several times over according to their claims since 2014

If you ever lived in or near you'd under Slavic mindset and how it's split during wartime when it's likely those in charge might be easily bribed or make decisions chasing personal glory.

Secondly Donbas separatist army are treated as cannon fodder for regular army and Wagner group, both of which are suffering personnel losses. Throwing least important troops has been tactic since Soviet "Red Wave" tactics, which are in use in Ukraine this very day

Lastly you could follow exchange of territories and troop movements from live maps like this one
 
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If you ever lived in or near you'd under Slavic mindset and how it's split during wartime when it's likely those in charge might be easily bribed or make decisions chasing personal glory.
Nigga, I used to live in Ukr and a few other Slav countries thx
Secondly Donbas separatist army are treated as cannon fodder for regular army and Wagner group, both of which are suffering personnel losses. Throwing least important troops has been tactic since Soviet "Red Wave" tactics, which are in use in Ukraine this very day
Citation needed
Lastly you could follow exchange of territories and troop movements from live maps like this one
A map run by a Ukranian? Connected to the Ukr authorities.

God you're fucking stupid. Sterilise yourself.
 
Nigga, I used to live in Ukr and a few other Slav countries thx

Citation needed

A map run by a Ukranian? Connected to the Ukr authorities.

God you're fucking stupid. Sterilise yourself.

You obviously learned nothing larper, only place you like lived in was 4chan /pol/


Russian army threw these guys alongside draftees at Ukrainan guns

Thirdly genetic fallacy, live updated map that's peer reviewed map and it's accurate.
Other maps echo it on top of other updates not covered here
 
Correct if I'm wrong, patriot missiles are purely defensive.

Re: Patriot. Depends on what you mean by "defensive" - they can shoot down missiles but also aircraft. You could probably also jerry-rig them for ground attack like Russia has been doing with S300s.

Thirdly genetic fallacy, live updated map that's peer reviewed map and it's accurate.
Other maps echo it on top of other updates not covered here

The folks running UA very clearly have a pro-Ukraine bias, and their map is a little slow to update, but they don't let their bias influence their mapping that I've seen.
 
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You obviously learned nothing larper, only place you like lived in was 4chan /pol/


Russian army threw these guys alongside draftees at Ukrainan guns

Thirdly genetic fallacy, live updated map that's peer reviewed map and it's accurate.
Other maps echo it on top of other updates not covered here
ahahahhahahahhahahahhahhahahahah jesus fuck me sideways, ANOTHER Ukr sourced map which *shock horror* agrees with the original sourced map, which recieves everything from the Ukr armed forces. What's next? Linking to the ISW map?
Abort yourself.

Re: Patriot. Depends on what you mean by "defensive" - they can shoot down missiles but also aircraft. You could probably also jerry-rig them for ground attack like Russia has been doing with S300s.



The folks running UA very clearly have a pro-Ukraine bias, and their map is a little slow to update, but they don't let their bias influence their mapping that I've seen.
Doubtful that S300's have been modified. More likely that S300's have been causing some destruction after they engage targets (i.e. the one that killed some Poles), and the Ukr's are doing what comes naturally, and telling lies. After all, it doesn't make sense to change an entire weapons system to do something it wasn't designed to do. The only sources for the S300 modification thing are Ukr Govt.
 
Re: Patriot. Depends on what you mean by "defensive" - they can shoot down missiles but also aircraft. You could probably also jerry-rig them for ground attack like Russia has been doing with S300s.

I don't have training or seen even blueprints of patriot systems. They aren't exactly common in eastern border of NATO territory, most countries here are busy keeping up the ammo stockpile and maintaining surplus F15s
 
Thirdly genetic fallacy, live updated map that's peer reviewed map and it's accurate.
Other maps echo it on top of other updates not covered here
Are you fucking serious? Yeah sure, it is unbiased and absolutely not a schizophrenic map.
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1672921307162.png
 
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LOL my nigga, what are you high on right now?
20 HIMARS, 100 Soviet-era tanks, and 50,000 slavs stopped Russia cold. They lost a capital ship to a country with no navy. At this point it looks like Mongols would have pretty good odds of Gengis Ogedai 2.0ing their way to Moscow if they had air support and a few dozen ATACMS.

There comes a point when the world discovers that the USA standing army is more about threat than actual ability.

USA leadership is weak and the military was coasting on the reputation of being scary. That got blown out of the water after the Afghan goat herders kicked their arses out and they left behind billions of dollars of equipment. They can pull out of their arse any bullshit excuses they want but they still got completely and embarrassingly fucking routed.

The world seen it happen, Russia and China now know the US can't actually do shit to stop them short of nukes

At least the AZOV fighters can actually fight and have significantly better equipment as supplied by the US and EU. The Russians, facing a better trained and better equipped enemy are still winning.

US and EU forces are content with a proxy war fought for them by Ukraine because they don't have the balls to pitch themselves directly against the Russians.

Britain: Irrelevant EU beggar state, now just a shadow and it's armed forces couldn't fight off a bunch angry retards armed with pitchforks. If any if you are British, your country sucks and so do you.

EU: With the exception of Finland and maybe Switzerland (defensively) the rest of their armed forces are just a joke. Now with gas cut off by their "allies" they can't produce enough hardware to invade Tonga.

NATO is pretty much just an extension of the US and just as rubbish.
 
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