Not Just Bikes / r/fuckcars / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

I just read through nearly half of the thread. Pretty entertaining (and occasionally mind numbing) stuff. I was actually hoping to find a thread on the fuck cars types after seeing a lot of yelling about “walkable cities” and finding a thread that feels pretty relevant.
Evokes the feeling of r/Im14andthis is deep:
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Long ass post about how we used to be able to play in the streets before cars took over:
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For the record I love artists, but man do so many of them waste their talent with shit like this.
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As expected, the notes are full of anti car yelling, and at least one person who wants to murder Henry Ford.

Edit: Addition for @FILTH Tourist
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Ford didn’t even invent cars, just the assembly line. Good luck strangling Karl Benz I guess.
Edit: I meant Henry Ford, not Harrison Ford. This is what happens when you’re on Kiwi Farms because you can’t sleep.
 
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I just read through nearly half of the thread. Pretty entertaining (and occasionally mind numbing) stuff. I was actually hoping to find a thread on the fuck cars types after seeing a lot of yelling about “walkable cities” and finding a thread that feels pretty relevant.
Evokes the feeling of r/Im14andthis is deep:
View attachment 4204142
Long ass post about how we used to be able to play in the streets before cars took over:
View attachment 4204148
For the record I love artists, but man do so many of them waste their talent with shit like this.
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View attachment 4204152
View attachment 4204155
View attachment 4204158
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As expected, the notes are full of anti car yelling, and at least one person who wants to murder Harrison Ford.
I these guys have a warped perception of reality and history. Roads, sidewalks, and the division of traffic has existed for thousands of years. Do you know why romans built sidewalks into the streets of their cities? It isn't because of lobbying from big chariot, it's because roads are intended for wagons and cargo pulled by animals and animals are fucking filthy. Sidewalks exist as a health and safety measure not just so you don't get trampled or ran over by horses, wagons, marching soldiers, and cars, but to keep people out of the mud, filth, shit, and sewage. People were not driven from the roads because they didn't want to be there in the first place.

This idea that before cars people played and danced in the street is retarded. Those dancing girls would quickly move out of the way if a wagon was passing though just as suburban kids would move out of the way when a car passes though today. Speaking of which, why this romanticism for playing on the streets in the first place? It is a utility to move people and goods and control sewage and rainwater, it's like being upset you can't sunbathe on railway tracks. Wouldn't a safe park or *gasp* a front or backyard be better for kids to play than a dirty road?

Finally the two photos don't prove shit, the people are still pushed to the sides so traffic move forward in both pics. Also using sidewalks is better for attracting customers because they are right next to the window and and entrance to the shop so impulse can draw them in. Nobody is window shopping when they are standing in the middle of the fucking road even when there is no cars there.

Also post the Harrison Ford comment!
Edit: That's a refrence to Henry Ford. Also he didn't invent cars, he just mastered mass producing them. Damn, I was hoping someone was sperging about the actor.
 
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I just read through nearly half of the thread. Pretty entertaining (and occasionally mind numbing) stuff. I was actually hoping to find a thread on the fuck cars types after seeing a lot of yelling about “walkable cities” and finding a thread that feels pretty relevant.
Evokes the feeling of r/Im14andthis is deep:
View attachment 4204142
Long ass post about how we used to be able to play in the streets before cars took over:
View attachment 4204148
For the record I love artists, but man do so many of them waste their talent with shit like this.
View attachment 4204150
View attachment 4204152
View attachment 4204155
View attachment 4204158
View attachment 4204160
As expected, the notes are full of anti car yelling, and at least one person who wants to murder Henry Ford.

Edit: Addition for @FILTH Tourist
View attachment 4204304
Ford didn’t even invent cars, just the assembly line. Good luck strangling Karl Benz I guess.
Edit: I meant Henry Ford, not Harrison Ford. This is what happens when you’re on Kiwi Farms because you can’t sleep.
These people have really no idea how much infrastructure is needed to support an area in particular deliveries. How do they think the shops and restaurants get stocked? How do construction crews access an area? Its like they think this shit honestly just fucking appears out of thin air.
 
Doesn't Germany mandate that all cars be limited to 155 MPH maximum? Japanese companies also limit their domestic market cars to 112 MPH. Heck, there's a pretty well known Top Gear segment where they talk about how the GTR has a satellite based one that disables itself when you enter the premises of a known race track. Even if there isn't a limiter, most cars rattle like hell and are unstable above 100 MPH.

Regardless, what would that even solve? The speed limit law already does the job without people having to spend money. Are these people just butt blasted that the public still has the option to exceed the limit? Imagine if you're trying to pass people on the freeway and everyone is limited to fucking 70 MPH. Or even if we somehow managed to have GPS-based limiters, imagine what would happen if you're on the freeway and it randomly thinks you are on a side street (we've all seen Google Maps shit the bed) and limits you to 35 MPH in the middle of everyone going twice as fast all around you.
Germany? The country of literally no speed limits on the Autobahn, where you can drive at 125 mph and still get flashed at if you move to the left lane because some people paid for the entire 185 mph speedometer and they'll be damned if they're not gonna use it.
I mean, there are few parts of the Autobahn left that have no speed limit, and with traffic there it's hard to really go beyond 125 mph, but there certainly is no limit implemented in cars. Recently some czech millionaire drove his Bugatti Chiron at 259 mph on a German Autobahn and posted the video online, and German courts said he didn't do anything wrong despite public outrage.
Or where you can have guys riding their motorcycles at 300 km/h and get overtaken by sleeper Audi RS6s as if they were standing still.
Some people demand speed limits and governors, and also GPS based speed limits in cities (especially as a response to trucks and cars of peace), but as of now, there are no limits.
Fun fact, I drive a german compact car and it sits quite comfortably at 100 mph. Consumption gets too high, though. I drove an Audi A5 once, diesel. 125 mph felt like 60 mph in my own car, consumption was kinda similar, too. Super comfortable, could have done that for hours.
 
I just read through nearly half of the thread. Pretty entertaining (and occasionally mind numbing) stuff. I was actually hoping to find a thread on the fuck cars types after seeing a lot of yelling about “walkable cities” and finding a thread that feels pretty relevant.
Evokes the feeling of r/Im14andthis is deep:
View attachment 4204142
Long ass post about how we used to be able to play in the streets before cars took over:
View attachment 4204148
For the record I love artists, but man do so many of them waste their talent with shit like this.
View attachment 4204150
View attachment 4204152
View attachment 4204155
View attachment 4204158
View attachment 4204160
As expected, the notes are full of anti car yelling, and at least one person who wants to murder Henry Ford.

Edit: Addition for @FILTH Tourist
View attachment 4204304
Ford didn’t even invent cars, just the assembly line. Good luck strangling Karl Benz I guess.
Edit: I meant Henry Ford, not Harrison Ford. This is what happens when you’re on Kiwi Farms because you can’t sleep.
I these guys have a warped perception of reality and history. Roads, sidewalks, and the division of traffic has existed for thousands of years. Do you know why romans built sidewalks into the streets of their cities? It isn't because of lobbying from big chariot, it's because roads are intended for wagons and cargo pulled by animals and animals are fucking filthy. Sidewalks exist as a health and safety measure not just so you don't get trampled or ran over by horses, wagons, marching soldiers, and cars, but to keep people out of the mud, filth, shit, and sewage. People were not driven from the roads because they didn't want to be there in the first place.

This idea that before cars people played and danced in the street is retarded. Those dancing girls would quickly move out of the way if a wagon was passing though just as suburban kids would move out of the way when a car passes though today. Speaking of which, why this romanticism for playing on the streets in the first place? It is a utility to move people and goods and control sewage and rainwater, it's like being upset you can't sunbathe on railway tracks. Wouldn't a safe park or *gasp* a front or backyard be better for kids to play than a dirty road?

Finally the two photos don't prove shit, the people are still pushed to the sides so traffic move forward in both pics. Also using sidewalks is better for attracting customers because they are right next to the window and and entrance to the shop so impulse can draw them in. Nobody is window shopping when they are standing in the middle of the fucking road even when there is no cars there.

Also post the Harrison Ford comment!
Edit: That's a refrence to Henry Ford. Also he didn't invent cars, he just mastered mass producing them. Damn, I was hoping someone was sperging about the actor.
They take the quaint, wistful image of children innocently playing tag in the quiet local street that runs through their neighborhood and deliberately project it onto every single carriageway in history ever, as if children ever played in the middle of a bustling downtown street or a rural highway out in the sticks when they could just play in front of their house or a playground or anywhere else far more fitting.

And that initial comic portraying roads as bottomless pits is so ridiculously misleading, as if every single street in existence is too busy 24/7 to ever for anyone to do anything else on them (contrary to what these retards claim, children do in fact still play in the road, just in local streets in front of their houses instead of 3-lanes-each-way dual carriageways, but of course that's in the suburbs where precisely zero of these bugmen live). Or that local markets, jaywalking, streets that are designated shared zones or a million other things don't exist.

Fuck I hate these disingenuous pricks so much.
 
I just read through nearly half of the thread. Pretty entertaining (and occasionally mind numbing) stuff. I was actually hoping to find a thread on the fuck cars types after seeing a lot of yelling about “walkable cities” and finding a thread that feels pretty relevant.
Evokes the feeling of r/Im14andthis is deep:
View attachment 4204142

View attachment 4204158
View attachment 4204160
How do those shops get the merchandise and materials they need to stay in business?

The people that the street were built for are dead. Most importantly, the now deceased people in the 1900 picture are not fucking tourists.

Mulberry Street, 1896
They are laborers; toilers in all grades of manual work; they are artisans, they are junkman, and here, too, dwell the rag pickers....There is a monster colony of Italians who might be termed the commercial or shop keeping community of the Latins. Here are all sorts of stores, pensions, groceries, fruit emporiums, tailors, shoemakers, wine merchants, importers, musical instrument makers....There are notaries, lawyers, doctors, apothecaries, undertakers.... There are more bankers among the Italians than among any other foreigners except the Germans in the city.
So around 1900s Mulberry Street seems to be a working to lower middle class community with some professional services to cater to those people.

So NOT tourists.

Such, what are they trying to argue? What is the structure of their argument?

As Little Italy in 1900 used to have people in the middle of the street as a Italian ghetto we must in 2020 allow people in the street again as it's now a tourist district.

If they want to push the fact that Little Italy is a tourist district and should make it pedestrian only, that is an argument that they can make but to bring up photos of Little Italy shortly after tenement housing was more regulated is a non sequitur.

Next we address the comment that children used to play in the street for most of recorded history.

Well, sure...that's true but for most of recorded history most people lived on farms or relatively small towns.

Even if we wanted to address when more people moved to the cities then we would need to address why people played in the street.

That was because public parks and other similar amenities that the public enjoy were limited in comparison to today.

Standard Oil for instance was formed in 1890 and while Andrew Carnegie may meet the Robber Barons definition he was also a huge philanthropist:

The industrialists certainly gave back, but in ways that didn’t necessarily relieve the suffering of the city’s workers and laborers. Muller points out that Carnegie in particular was a Social Darwinist, believing that the best people would naturally rise to the top (and there was something wrong with those who didn’t). Rather than improving working conditions in his steel mills, therefore, he endowed libraries and museums, and let workers better themselves.

An additional topic I want to cover is this idea of setting up shops on the side of the road.

Now I wonder how far we can push this?

Does one have the right to set up a stall selling semi-automatic rifles in the middle of the street and be free from ANY government regulations?

Less extreme but how about produce and groceries? Could one set up a stall selling produce and other staples a 100 feet away from a bodega?

How about a food stall right outside a restaurant? Perhaps I could sell brick oven pizza, outside an established permanent store, for 40% off as compared to the store.

Then when the stores go out of business and breed crime I just move to a different area and leave the once nice area a ghetto.

The correct response to Muh 1900's!
That was THEN, this is NOW.
 
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I generally like Adam Something's takes on urban planning, but the CGP Grey response really rubs me the wrong way. It reeks of an anti-neutrality ideology that characterizes many leftists. Merely entertaining any idea that isn't the complete eradication of cars is seen as an endorsement of them, devil's advocate be damned.
Even as someone who lives in a bike-friendly country, I can attest to living near junctions that already aren't friendly towards pedestrians, simply because that need is already covered elsewhere. If anything, this is the perfect excuse to implement this idea.
 
The Daily Rake has a great article series going after these Bugman faggots.
Hey, thanks for the shoutout.
The author didn’t mention this because he’s enamored with small grocery stores, but I find it funny that bugmen demand absolute space efficiency when it comes to transportation and housing but have zero problem having 20 identical grocery stores which carry fewer unique items and whose combined area is larger than the single large grocery store. Also, the large grocery store can be stocked directly from a semi, whereas the smaller stores need a fleet of vans/small trucks.
I actually used to drive a semi, although we called it a tractor-trailer for some reason, and I deleted the paragraphs talking about that, since both pieces are already well over 5k words. It's definitely true that Costco, Walmart, and most very large supermarkets have loading docks for Semis, but I'm not sure that's a mark in their favour.

The urbanist bugcreatures make sure that anything they're somewhat correct on gets immediately overhyped and soy'd up, but I can tell you from experience that driving a semi-truck in urban areas can be an extremely stressful and dangerous experience. Big trucks are also annoying to other drivers for similar reasons as buses, something they never mention, and they do require the road infrastructure to be designed for them.

A hub and spoke system, where semis are unloaded in warehouses outside of town, then shipped to smaller stores in 10 ton trucks, should theoretically be much less efficient than direct point to point loading and unloading, but that's a bit like the urbanists saying "a bus can hold 150 people therefore that's 150 fewer people on the roads every time." I've had shipments from the Vancouver area to the Interior (about 300-400 km) where I took the whole semi-truck out with just four pallets inside. In the trailer you'll see something called a pallet bar, and some trailers even have the side supports built in. Others just have a spring loaded bar. They need to have this because often times the trailer isn't close to full, but it's not-economical to just have trucks and drivers sitting by without making money. Often trucking companies lose money on one leg of a trip in the hopes of making it back on another.

EDIT: For truck spergs, it's also possible that the trailer is weight-full, but not volume-full, and you should probably use a pallet bar all the time anyway. Nevertheless, trailers are often not close to full. This is simply a fact.

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So yes, the ultimate in efficiency is definitely large trucks with point to point access. Big stores that can build big loading docks do so for a reason. But the economics are complicated, and I think there is a legitimate non-soy argument for not wanting a bunch of semi-trucks in your downtown area clogging up the roads and being generally obnoxious. Although as a counterpoint to all of that, a lot of my deliveries were done around 3 AM, so as to cause as little disruption as possible. Traffic and urban planning are complicated issues, and require non-ideological approaches from people who have far more data at their fingertips than I.
The “big box” grocery store is more efficient and their economies of scale are not exaggerated. There are plenty of places where a small store could be set up, even in single-family zoned areas, but the economics is just way in favor of the big store. The only thing more efficient is online shopping which removes the store entirely.

It’s just funny that people who demand you use centralized transit and live in large shared buildings instead of small individual ones for efficiency reasons also want distributed stores instead of centralized ones despite their inherent inefficiencies.
I'm not so sure about that. Zoning is zoning. If you aren't allowed to build commercial buildings like grocery stores, then you aren't allowed to build them.

But yes, the traffic soyboys are intolerable little cunts who pick and choose when efficiency is good versus bad. They also claim that extra road lanes cause "induced demand," which is bad, but bike lanes cause people to ride bikes (induced demand), and that's good. If they really cared about efficiency they'd be demanding more semi-truck access everywhere, not less.
The price discount between something like a Walmart and even a Kroger in the current landscape is nuts, saying nothing of a Bodega. Part of that is due to logistics; Walmart has a shit ton of trucks and the weight to get deals. A Bodega has no such purchasing power.

2. Walmart draws people into the store than just food. You want a TV? Think about getting a oven roasted chicken for dinner on the way home while you're at it. That helps offset the cost, other shit in the store.

3. Big parking lots, in store pick up, and as such the incentive to load your car as high as possible. A Bodega, you'll be lucky to get parking a block down, meaning you'll be carrying shit, limiting your load. With a car right there in the parking lot, that workers can even have my shit ready when I get there, my limit is my trunk and passenger seats. As such Walmart makes more money, prices go down, and I want to shop there more.
Walmart may have been a poor comparison, due to them selling other products, but Canadian grocery stores tend to be unfamiliar to an American audience, so I focused on them. Again, there is no question that the bigger the store, the greater the economy of scale, the cheaper the product. As I said in my piece, if you are forced to drive to the grocery store there is little reason for it not to be enormous, so as to outcompete on price. But if the government stopped making it illegal to build things where people live, there would be relatively smaller supermarkets within walking distance. This is not to say that the price advantage of big box stores would be meaningless, and I imagine that we would see a lot of small-medium supermarkets with decent prices combined with being within walking distance, or at least very convenient driving distance, for a smaller area.

Look, ultimately the government has to make it illegal to build the essentials of life near where people live for a reason. That reason being, if they didn't, people would do that. So all the arguments about economies of scale are somewhat moot anyway. If local grocery stores - not always bodega sized of course - weren't what people wanted, it wouldn't need to be illegal to build them.

You don't need to be an urbanite bugcreature train autist to hate that. In fact, you could be someone who will only ever shop at InsertEnormousRetailStoreHere with your car to want this changed, because other people choosing to walk to a local store instead of drive to the designated commercial zone shits up the streets with needless congestion.
What a great series so far, glad to see someone else finally address and refute urbanists. I do agree that as time went on Jason Slaughter's videos have gotten more and more retarded. He's either running out of ideas or never had any good ones.

By the way, that crop at the end of Jason looks like the same one in my OP...
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Is it possible he read my thread? :)
Oh I think it's downright probable ;)

I wrote the first piece before Christmas, then mostly took Christmas off to spend time with my family. In between piece 1 and piece 2 someone linked me to this thread. I was actually kind of miffed, since I had been planning this since before you started it, but had been overworked with other things and got beat to the punch. But it's a really high quality thread, and you focus on some different things than I do, since I'm less interested in their offputting and annoying personalities, and more interested in, say, totally destroying the annoying myth that high speed passenger rail belongs in Canada. But we'll get there later.

EDIT: If you're wondering about the pic, I made a Farms account a while back when writing about little Juan Fuentes.
 
Germany? The country of literally no speed limits on the Autobahn, where you can drive at 125 mph and still get flashed at if you move to the left lane because some people paid for the entire 185 mph speedometer and they'll be damned if they're not gonna use it.
I mean, there are few parts of the Autobahn left that have no speed limit, and with traffic there it's hard to really go beyond 125 mph, but there certainly is no limit implemented in cars. Recently some czech millionaire drove his Bugatti Chiron at 259 mph on a German Autobahn and posted the video online, and German courts said he didn't do anything wrong despite public outrage.
Or where you can have guys riding their motorcycles at 300 km/h and get overtaken by sleeper Audi RS6s as if they were standing still.
Some people demand speed limits and governors, and also GPS based speed limits in cities (especially as a response to trucks and cars of peace), but as of now, there are no limits.
Fun fact, I drive a german compact car and it sits quite comfortably at 100 mph. Consumption gets too high, though. I drove an Audi A5 once, diesel. 125 mph felt like 60 mph in my own car, consumption was kinda similar, too. Super comfortable, could have done that for hours.
I was under the impression that it was German law, but turns out it's similar to Japan where the large manufacturers have a gentlemen's agreement not to exceed 155 (because of the Green Party rabble rousing in the 70s). From what I understand, it's an ECU-based limit that can easily be removed but how many people actually go about removing it?


I drive a German car as a daily too and agree that the cars can easily sit at 100/120 mph easily (my car gets better mileage at 80 than at 60 lmao). But that's just German engineering. The average person in the US can't afford BMWs or Audis. Maybe a VW but even those are not as common as the Japanese or American brand cars, which are mostly terrible at those kinds of speeds. And like you said, there's already an incentive not to go as fast in terms of your fuel usage, especially nowadays. Outside of very few exceptions like the Audi you mentioned, I don't know of many cars that don't drink fuel at high speeds.
 
I was under the impression that it was German law, but turns out it's similar to Japan where the large manufacturers have a gentlemen's agreement not to exceed 155 (because of the Green Party rabble rousing in the 70s). From what I understand, it's an ECU-based limit that can easily be removed but how many people actually go about removing it?


I drive a German car as a daily too and agree that the cars can easily sit at 100/120 mph easily (my car gets better mileage at 80 than at 60 lmao). But that's just German engineering. The average person in the US can't afford BMWs or Audis. Maybe a VW but even those are not as common as the Japanese or American brand cars, which are mostly terrible at those kinds of speeds. And like you said, there's already an incentive not to go as fast in terms of your fuel usage, especially nowadays. Outside of very few exceptions like the Audi you mentioned, I don't know of many cars that don't drink fuel at high speeds.
There's just no reason for any car to go over 155, and you're right, the regular car versions are often limited if the power would be otherwise enough. But the sports versions of such cars routinely go above that, it's not a law or anything. Only absolute pillocks drive that fast anyway. Although, if you wanna see that firsthand: The A9 between Munich and Ingolstadt sometimes resembles more a test track than a regular road (which it kinda is, with Audi being in Ingolstadt and BMW in Munich, and on the A9 you can see a lot of their pre-production cars with that dazzle camo shit on them to prevent photographs from showing their outlines too well), and people there drive like mad. Pay for the entire speedometer, use the entire speedometer.
 
I'm less interested in their offputting and annoying personalities, and more interested in, say, totally destroying the annoying myth that high speed passenger rail belongs in Canada. But we'll get there later.
American HSR advocates are dumb, but Canadian ones are even dumber. At least the US has cities within HSR's optimal distance. Canada's potential routes are either way too long (Vancouver-Calgary-Edmonton-Winnipeg-Toronto) or have so many stops close together that they wouldn't be high speed (Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City).

Canada is very big and sparsely populated; the Trans-Canada Highway, which a HSR line would likely follow, is still a two-lane road in places and construction started in 1950. How can anyone think that HSR is a good fit?
 
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American HSR advocates are dumb, but Canadian ones are even dumber. At least the US has cities within HSR's optimal distance. Canada's potential routes are either way too long (Vancouver-Calgary-Edmonton-Winnipeg-Toronto) or have so many stops close together that they wouldn't be high speed (Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City).

Canada is very big and sparsely populated; the Trans-Canada Highway, which a HSR line would likely follow, is still a two-lane road in places and construction started in 1950. How can anyone think that HSR is a good fit?
Even the usually irritating Alan Fisher agrees HSR is mostly dumb in North America.

 
Even the usually irritating Alan Fisher agrees HSR is mostly dumb in North America.

I love this idea that nations can easily and cheaply just throw out HSR but the dastardly car lobby stops it. HSR are insanely expensive to build and trains dont usually fare well privatised so eventually end up publicly owned or publicly subsidised. I could probably make several posts worth of all the potential issues that can come up.
 
I love this idea that nations can easily and cheaply just throw out HSR but the dastardly car lobby stops it. HSR are insanely expensive to build and trains dont usually fare well privatised so eventually end up publicly owned or publicly subsidised. I could probably make several posts worth of all the potential issues that can come up.
They all look at PR campaigns from China and assume just any country can magic a HSR network out of nowhere, ignoring a) the CCP runs an authoritarian state and nobody not affiliated with the government gets a say in that operation, and b) the whole network is made out of papier mache and it's just a matter of when, not if, a catastrophic accident occurs on it.
 
They all look at PR campaigns from China and assume just any country can magic a HSR network out of nowhere, ignoring a) the CCP runs an authoritarian state and nobody not affiliated with the government gets a say in that operation, and b) the whole network is made out of papier mache and it's just a matter of when, not if, a catastrophic accident occurs on it.
lots of these infrastructure megaprojects in china are massive money pits too
they got pushed through by governments because debt fueled construction as a driver for economic growth was their chosen strategy, as a result many local governments are now sitting on infrastructure that is expensive to maintain and brings very little utility or profit. like, railway lines leading to locations where barely anybody wants to go, huge train stations that are empty all the time, trains driving every day with super low passenger numbers, it's a big financial burden
 
lots of these infrastructure megaprojects in china are massive money pits too
they got pushed through by governments because debt fueled construction as a driver for economic growth was their chosen strategy, as a result many local governments are now sitting on infrastructure that is expensive to maintain and brings very little utility or profit. like, railway lines leading to locations where barely anybody wants to go, huge train stations that are empty all the time, trains driving every day with super low passenger numbers, it's a big financial burden
Maybe they need a little Strong Towns thinking? :D
 
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