- Joined
- Mar 13, 2022
Sanctioned Suicide is a forum for discussion of suicide. Most notably, it does not shy away from offering advice on how to kill yourself, and it assumes all participants are adults 18 years or older.
For example, here's how to kill yourself with inert gas:
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And the classic, hanging yourself (41% love this one):
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But by far the most infamous is sodium nitrite:
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Sodium nitrite is the method most commonly discussed in critical media and is frequently abbreviated as SN. Members on the site frequently use acronyms like this, attempting to disguise what they are talking about. The most common one is CTB, which refers to killing oneself. It stands for "cease to breathe" or "catch the bus" depending on who you ask.
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On the other hand, a suicidal person sticking around for too long would be a bit suspicious, wouldn't it? Let me introduce you to a prominent member named FuneralCry, who writes posts like this:
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Who says suicide is never the wrong choice:
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And is actively surprised when people are happy:
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Yet despite proclaiming about how suicide is great and awesome, has never actually done it. FuneralCry joined in 2020 and has already managed to rack up over 18,000 posts (around 24 posts per day) and counting as of writing.
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Why? Because the common assumption is that if you stop someone from suicide, "they'll just get better" which is not always true.
Members on the forum seek suicide for many reasons. Their problems range from balding and being fat, to being shut out from their family, living in an Islamic country, to just plain old depression and loneliness.
On the flip side though, there exists a separate "Recovery" subforum that is more positive, where members share things like how they got better, medications that actually helped, and what stops them from killing themselves. They even provide a list of resources like any other space commonly dealing with suicide.
But that doesn't mean everyone is happy with the forum's existence.
A non-exhaustive list of deaths is as follows:
Shawn Shatto was a 25-year-old woman from Pennsylvania who took her own life on May 22, 2019. She signed up on Sanctioned Suicide as Kakabushi, and made less than 10 posts in total before she took a 3-day regimen of drugs to kill herself at home, including sodium nitrite, as advised by members of the forum.
Once her family discovered her body, they found her phone and her Goodbye thread, and posted this:
The Biebers immediately took to Facebook and the media once they found out. You can search up "Shawn Shatto" for yourself. The ratio of second-hand media articles to primary sources is obscene.
source (a)
Of course, the media takes liberties with the facts. According to a Sanctioned Suicide member who signed up here on Kiwi Farms:
The mainstream media treats the site like a bogeyman or Voldemort, fearing that more people will die if they utter its name. For example, the York Daily Record says "it would be irresponsible to mention its name".
The site administrator at the time, Marquis, made a response post absolving the forum of any blame for Shawn's death. Notably, he repudiated all calls of censorship, stating that his site provides support to thousands of people who would otherwise end up involuntarily committed and held against their will.
Nevertheless, lawmakers immediately got to work on doing just that. Representative Dawn Keefer of York County, Pennsylvania introduced "Shawn's Law" to institute harsher penalties for anyone aiding or encouraging suicide.
Soon after this, Buzzfeed News ran a hit piece revealing that site founders Marquis and Serge were incels and founded the Incels forum after /r/incels got banned off Reddit.
(KF discussion of York Daily Record article)
In November of 2020, VICE News ran an extremely long hit piece on the site.
Notably, a week before the article went live, the reporter contacted Marquis with questions. He foolishly answered honestly, not knowing Dear Feeder's wise advice the press are scum.
source (a)
The article alleges that on April 25, 2020, 18-year-old Junior "died by suicide, his round face still carrying the softness of childhood", and additionally repeats Shawn Shatto's story from last year. It also contains a retarded censoring of the site name, calling it "Suicide Solution" instead of Sanctioned Suicide, despite acknowledging VICE used the site's actual name in the 2015 hit piece on its .onion incarnation.
After that, his mom Kelli Wilson became an activist and founded a Texas organization called Fix The 26.
Totally not fearmongering in any way!
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What's the 26? Oh you know, just the 26 words of Section 230 of the US Communications Decency Act:
As in, the only reason this very website you are on right now still exists. She just wants that changed, no big deal.
Oh but if you didn't think it was bad enough that she's all for destroying the fundamental foundation of the Internet, she also followed the rest of the #DropKiwifarms playbook by getting on Twitter to further her jihad.
(archive)
Kelli did a lot of crazy shit on this account. She doxed a forum member:
source (a)
Who was later confirmed to have killed herself one month later.
She along with others tweeted at Tucows, their domain registrar at the time, to stop providing service:
source (a)
This screeching most likely worked for them in the past. Sanctioned Suicide used to be at sanctionedsuicide.com, but it's now on sanctioned-suicide.org (there's also sanctionedsuicide.is which is dead now but according to archive.org it redirected to sanctioned-suicide.org). Speaking of which, both domains are blacklisted from the Internet Archive:
But back to Wilson. The most unhinged thing she did? Calling for Marquis to be publicly executed.
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Fortunately, her account got suspended, presumably for the call to violence.
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To end off this month, the UK outlet Mirror ran a piece about how 23-year-old Joe Nihill killed himself after taking SN. But they don't name SN. The reporter decided to buy it himself and he went on about how shocked he was that he could do it.
(KF discussion of VICE article)
In February of 2021, FOX News ran a piece about the site. This time, SS was blamed for the suicide of 27-year-old Mikael Scott. His mother, Ruth Scott, discovered he used sodium nitrite to end his life.
Notably, this is one of the few rare articles where not only is sodium nitrite named, but the site is named too. Looks like FOX doesn't believe in bogeyman Voldemort bullshit.
The article then goes on to repeat Kelli Wilson's story, along with promoting her Fix The 26 advocacy coalition and how she wants to dismantle Section 230.
Here are the archives of Sanctioned Suicide's discussion of this piece (1, 2, 3) along with a perfect response from a global moderator:
In December of 2021, one of the biggest blows to the site came in the form of a New York Times exposé, by reporters Megan Twohey and Gabriel J.X. Dance.
Oh, shut the fuck up already.
source (a)
The article starts off by naming 17-year-old Matthew van Antwerpen, 22-year-old Roberta Barbos, and 16-year-old Daniel Dal Canto as new "victims" to use as a bludgeon against the site, along with the repeat of - you guessed it - Shawn Shatto. They also decided to use the actual name of the site instead of a retarded substitute.
Then the NYT claims to have identified a staggering 45 more people who died after using the site. But they never name them and only provide ages and locations. Sometimes not even the city for some retarded reason. Either way, I refuse to reprint them here on account of their entire source being "dude trust me".
The article continues by bringing in supposed "experts" to slander the site as "dangerous" and alleges that the site draws six million pageviews per month. It also covers how the site is blocked in Australia, Germany and Italy, how Google has refused to deindex the pages, and how the servers have kept moving from country to country.
The funniest part is it alleges that Joe Nihill left this suicide note calling to take the site down, in an uncanny parallel to the Byuuicide:
And that Daniel Dal Canto died by the site's classic method of good old-fashioned sodium nitrite. Also some guy named Craig McInally used SS to sexually assault two people or something?
But then the big reveal: Site founders Marquis and Serge got doxed by the NYT.
Marquis is none other than Lamarcus Small of Huntsville, Alabama, and Serge is Diego Joaquín Galante of Montevideo, Uruguay. Apparently despite their opsec, they got doxed because Epik got hacked. Speaking of which, it turns out that Epik senior vice president Robert Davis terminated the domain after he saw a tweet by Sharon Luft, which is why they're now on sanctioned-suicide.org.
The article ends by noting how Section 230 protects the site from legal liability. And totally not advocating for it to be destroyed!
Of course, the shitshow isn't over yet. A couple days after the article was published, Marquis resigned and handed the site over to someone new.
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Three days later, the new administrator, RainAndSadness, introduced himself. (He's MtF trans as we'll see later.)
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Also, PBS did an interview with one of the NYT reporters about SS two days later. Even though the interview very explicitly pointed to the piece they did, they refused to name the site there for whatever reason.
But of course, the retardation isn't over. A couple months later, the same exact NYT reporters came out with another article about how people are dying after buying sodium nitrite and using Sanctioned Suicide, but for some reason they didn't name the site or the compound this time. And wouldn't you know who shows up?
That's right, none other than Ruth Scott from earlier.
Apparently because of the Times piece from December, members of Congress are now bothering Amazon because people can just buy sodium nitrite off their platform. They're also going after other sellers like EBay, and Etsy who already banned selling SN. People in the United Kingdom are getting in on the screeching action too.
But to top it off, Ruth Scott is suing Amazon for selling it.
Lastly, someone claiming to be Emma Davis from the December 2021 article posted an apology for talking to the press in November of 2022.
source (a)
(KF discussion of Amazon article)
Tantacrul a/k/a Martin Keary is a Irish YouTuber based in the UK who produces videos about music. He's most famous for critiquing the user interface of music notation software like Sibelius or MuseScore, and he got hired at Muse Group to implement the changes he wanted to MuseScore.
Farmers may remember Muse Group for buying out Audacity in 2021, then proceeding to add telemetry, which started a whole shitshow involving a fork of it named Tenacity ran by an inexperienced schizo named Cookiengineer who claimed to have been harassed by 4chan including at his house in Germany, blaming it on the competing Sneedacity fork.
In January of 2023, Martin's content took an unexpectedly dark turn when he decided to make a video about Sanctioned Suicide.
Before we present his embellished account, let's first cover what actually happened. In November of 2022, Tantacrul stumbled across someone named System64 in his Discord server who uploaded a goodbye video to his YouTube channel, who was a 17-year-old boy from Italy.
In it, he announced he would upload his last piece of music and then kill himself. His name seems to be Matteo, judging by a tribute his friend made:
"In memory of System64 / Matteo"
Tantacrul did some searching and discovered his goodbye thread on Sanctioned Suicide under the name of SpentStardust:
source (a)
Matteo's intent was to decapitate himself on a passing train since he was unable to get SN (sodium nitrite):
source (a)
Italian news confirmed he died on the 18th of November. The article doesn't say it, but it's likely he did indeed decapitate himself since it says the rescuers could do nothing more but to confirm his death.
Google translated:
17-year-old dies hit by a train: traffic slowed down
Subtitle: The episode shortly before 2 pm near the Melegnano station. On site 118 and railway police
Photo: Man dies under a train in Melegnano (Milan)
source (a)
Martin registered on the site as Jonels on November 21st, presumably to hide who he was while he did some investigating. But on the next day, he fully revealed himself as Tantacrul and made a thread about the death of SpentStardust.
source (a)
In it, he advocates for a protocol to ask three questions if someone wants to kill themselves: Are they underage, have they tried to receive treatment, and have they spoken to a professional.
The thread was met with mixed reaction. Some agreed, while others didn't. Most notably, people disagreed because it just simply wouldn't help. People lie about their age all the time, and many people on the site are still suicidal after receiving countless treatments and talking to countless professionals.
Eventually, RainAndSadness banned him for being an asshole:
source (a)
Over the next couple of months, Martin worked on his video before releasing it in January of 2023.
To put it bluntly, it's a load of horseshit. The title is misleading and the thumbnail is a lie. The biggest problem is that almost everything is redacted, including the name of the site and what suicide methods he's talking about. He doesn't even provide any screenshots either, preferring instead to recreate the graphics himself. No archives are provided and there is absolutely nothing to back up his word besides "dude trust me".
In summary, basically everything is wrong or misleading. However, I will give him credit for not wanting to alter Section 230, and recognizing that doing so is fraught with trouble and potentially nasty consequences.
Site administrator RainAndSadness made his own response here which reveals he's a trans woman. He alleges that Tantacrul created several alt accounts and sperged out, although I cannot find these alt accounts.
(KF discussion of Tantacrul video)
There is a growing cabal of mothers, journalists and legislators looking to take down Sanctioned Suicide by any means necessary. They don't care about the consequences of their actions; they will destroy Section 230 if they have to. In fact, many of the gayops they do against Sanctioned Suicide are similar to the gayops pulled against Kiwi Farms:
Whatever you think of the people who frequent SS, it is undeniable that if moralfags succeed in taking them down, this site is next. Attacking SS is just another way to attack KF. After all, Fix The 26 purports to change Section 230 because of one suicide website, without considering the huge ramifications that would happen. Any weapon used against SS can easily be turned on KF as well, and people who spend 12-18 hours online every day have all the time in the world to make them.
For example, here's how to kill yourself with inert gas:
source (a)
And the classic, hanging yourself (41% love this one):
source (a)
But by far the most infamous is sodium nitrite:
source (a)
Sodium nitrite is the method most commonly discussed in critical media and is frequently abbreviated as SN. Members on the site frequently use acronyms like this, attempting to disguise what they are talking about. The most common one is CTB, which refers to killing oneself. It stands for "cease to breathe" or "catch the bus" depending on who you ask.
Who uses this?
Well, suicidal people of course. But besides people who are trying to figure out a way to end themselves, there are people who already have figured it out and are going through with it. This is exemplified with what is known as a Goodbye thread, of which there are many:
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On the other hand, a suicidal person sticking around for too long would be a bit suspicious, wouldn't it? Let me introduce you to a prominent member named FuneralCry, who writes posts like this:
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Who says suicide is never the wrong choice:
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And is actively surprised when people are happy:
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Yet despite proclaiming about how suicide is great and awesome, has never actually done it. FuneralCry joined in 2020 and has already managed to rack up over 18,000 posts (around 24 posts per day) and counting as of writing.
Why does this exist?
It may surprise you, but this site is not the bastion of pro-suicide ideation as many would have you believe. Rather, it is a pro-choice forum, as in if someone wants to kill themselves, they shouldn't be stopped from doing so. Nobody is ever pushed into doing it; at most they're simply not discouraged.(emphasis mine)
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Why? Because the common assumption is that if you stop someone from suicide, "they'll just get better" which is not always true.
(emphasis mine)
Members on the forum seek suicide for many reasons. Their problems range from balding and being fat, to being shut out from their family, living in an Islamic country, to just plain old depression and loneliness.
On the flip side though, there exists a separate "Recovery" subforum that is more positive, where members share things like how they got better, medications that actually helped, and what stops them from killing themselves. They even provide a list of resources like any other space commonly dealing with suicide.
But that doesn't mean everyone is happy with the forum's existence.
Take that off the god damn Internet!
In recent years, the site has come under scrutiny following a series of people who killed themselves using advice from the forum. They have suffered suspensions of hosting and domain services of content that is perfectly legal in the United States and protected by Section 230 after people have complained to their providers. And no, these weren't hoaxes like Byuu's, or unrelated like Chloe Sagal or Julie Terryberry. They actually used the forum, and actually died.A non-exhaustive list of deaths is as follows:
Kakabushi / Shawn Alexandra Shatto
Aggrieved: Jackie/Jacqueline & Chip BieberShawn Shatto was a 25-year-old woman from Pennsylvania who took her own life on May 22, 2019. She signed up on Sanctioned Suicide as Kakabushi, and made less than 10 posts in total before she took a 3-day regimen of drugs to kill herself at home, including sodium nitrite, as advised by members of the forum.
Once her family discovered her body, they found her phone and her Goodbye thread, and posted this:
Unfortunately the admins deleted her thread soon after, and at some point the site was excluded from archive.org and the archive.st links were 403ing for some reason, so the only archive of this is an archive.org page of the archive.st page of the archive.org page of the actual page, which I archived on archive.ph. Or in other words, an archive of an archive of an archive of an archive of the page. Due to all the archiving, the CSS is broken. (page 1, page 2)
The Biebers immediately took to Facebook and the media once they found out. You can search up "Shawn Shatto" for yourself. The ratio of second-hand media articles to primary sources is obscene.
source (a)
Of course, the media takes liberties with the facts. According to a Sanctioned Suicide member who signed up here on Kiwi Farms:
The mainstream media treats the site like a bogeyman or Voldemort, fearing that more people will die if they utter its name. For example, the York Daily Record says "it would be irresponsible to mention its name".
The site administrator at the time, Marquis, made a response post absolving the forum of any blame for Shawn's death. Notably, he repudiated all calls of censorship, stating that his site provides support to thousands of people who would otherwise end up involuntarily committed and held against their will.
Nevertheless, lawmakers immediately got to work on doing just that. Representative Dawn Keefer of York County, Pennsylvania introduced "Shawn's Law" to institute harsher penalties for anyone aiding or encouraging suicide.
Soon after this, Buzzfeed News ran a hit piece revealing that site founders Marquis and Serge were incels and founded the Incels forum after /r/incels got banned off Reddit.
(KF discussion of York Daily Record article)
Junior Wilson & Joe Nihill
Aggrieved: Kelli Wilson & Catherine AdenekanIn November of 2020, VICE News ran an extremely long hit piece on the site.
Notably, a week before the article went live, the reporter contacted Marquis with questions. He foolishly answered honestly, not knowing Dear Feeder's wise advice the press are scum.
source (a)
The article alleges that on April 25, 2020, 18-year-old Junior "died by suicide, his round face still carrying the softness of childhood", and additionally repeats Shawn Shatto's story from last year. It also contains a retarded censoring of the site name, calling it "Suicide Solution" instead of Sanctioned Suicide, despite acknowledging VICE used the site's actual name in the 2015 hit piece on its .onion incarnation.
After that, his mom Kelli Wilson became an activist and founded a Texas organization called Fix The 26.
Totally not fearmongering in any way!
source (a)
What's the 26? Oh you know, just the 26 words of Section 230 of the US Communications Decency Act:
"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."
As in, the only reason this very website you are on right now still exists. She just wants that changed, no big deal.
Oh but if you didn't think it was bad enough that she's all for destroying the fundamental foundation of the Internet, she also followed the rest of the #DropKiwifarms playbook by getting on Twitter to further her jihad.
(archive)
Kelli did a lot of crazy shit on this account. She doxed a forum member:
source (a)
Who was later confirmed to have killed herself one month later.
She along with others tweeted at Tucows, their domain registrar at the time, to stop providing service:
source (a)
This screeching most likely worked for them in the past. Sanctioned Suicide used to be at sanctionedsuicide.com, but it's now on sanctioned-suicide.org (there's also sanctionedsuicide.is which is dead now but according to archive.org it redirected to sanctioned-suicide.org). Speaking of which, both domains are blacklisted from the Internet Archive:
But back to Wilson. The most unhinged thing she did? Calling for Marquis to be publicly executed.
source (a)
Fortunately, her account got suspended, presumably for the call to violence.
source (a)
To end off this month, the UK outlet Mirror ran a piece about how 23-year-old Joe Nihill killed himself after taking SN. But they don't name SN. The reporter decided to buy it himself and he went on about how shocked he was that he could do it.
(KF discussion of VICE article)
Mikael Scott
Aggrieved: Ruth ScottIn February of 2021, FOX News ran a piece about the site. This time, SS was blamed for the suicide of 27-year-old Mikael Scott. His mother, Ruth Scott, discovered he used sodium nitrite to end his life.
Notably, this is one of the few rare articles where not only is sodium nitrite named, but the site is named too. Looks like FOX doesn't believe in bogeyman Voldemort bullshit.
The article then goes on to repeat Kelli Wilson's story, along with promoting her Fix The 26 advocacy coalition and how she wants to dismantle Section 230.
Here are the archives of Sanctioned Suicide's discussion of this piece (1, 2, 3) along with a perfect response from a global moderator:
Matthew van Antwerpen, Roberta Barbos, Daniel Dal Canto
Aggrieved: Sharon Luft, Maria Barbos, Richard & Pam Dal CantoIn December of 2021, one of the biggest blows to the site came in the form of a New York Times exposé, by reporters Megan Twohey and Gabriel J.X. Dance.
Oh, shut the fuck up already.
source (a)
The article starts off by naming 17-year-old Matthew van Antwerpen, 22-year-old Roberta Barbos, and 16-year-old Daniel Dal Canto as new "victims" to use as a bludgeon against the site, along with the repeat of - you guessed it - Shawn Shatto. They also decided to use the actual name of the site instead of a retarded substitute.
Then the NYT claims to have identified a staggering 45 more people who died after using the site. But they never name them and only provide ages and locations. Sometimes not even the city for some retarded reason. Either way, I refuse to reprint them here on account of their entire source being "dude trust me".
The article continues by bringing in supposed "experts" to slander the site as "dangerous" and alleges that the site draws six million pageviews per month. It also covers how the site is blocked in Australia, Germany and Italy, how Google has refused to deindex the pages, and how the servers have kept moving from country to country.
The funniest part is it alleges that Joe Nihill left this suicide note calling to take the site down, in an uncanny parallel to the Byuuicide:
And that Daniel Dal Canto died by the site's classic method of good old-fashioned sodium nitrite. Also some guy named Craig McInally used SS to sexually assault two people or something?
But then the big reveal: Site founders Marquis and Serge got doxed by the NYT.
Marquis is none other than Lamarcus Small of Huntsville, Alabama, and Serge is Diego Joaquín Galante of Montevideo, Uruguay. Apparently despite their opsec, they got doxed because Epik got hacked. Speaking of which, it turns out that Epik senior vice president Robert Davis terminated the domain after he saw a tweet by Sharon Luft, which is why they're now on sanctioned-suicide.org.
The article ends by noting how Section 230 protects the site from legal liability. And totally not advocating for it to be destroyed!
Of course, the shitshow isn't over yet. A couple days after the article was published, Marquis resigned and handed the site over to someone new.
source (a)
Three days later, the new administrator, RainAndSadness, introduced himself. (He's MtF trans as we'll see later.)
source (a)
Also, PBS did an interview with one of the NYT reporters about SS two days later. Even though the interview very explicitly pointed to the piece they did, they refused to name the site there for whatever reason.
But of course, the retardation isn't over. A couple months later, the same exact NYT reporters came out with another article about how people are dying after buying sodium nitrite and using Sanctioned Suicide, but for some reason they didn't name the site or the compound this time. And wouldn't you know who shows up?
That's right, none other than Ruth Scott from earlier.
Apparently because of the Times piece from December, members of Congress are now bothering Amazon because people can just buy sodium nitrite off their platform. They're also going after other sellers like EBay, and Etsy who already banned selling SN. People in the United Kingdom are getting in on the screeching action too.
But to top it off, Ruth Scott is suing Amazon for selling it.
Lastly, someone claiming to be Emma Davis from the December 2021 article posted an apology for talking to the press in November of 2022.
source (a)
(KF discussion of Amazon article)
SpentStardust / System64 / Matteo
Aggrieved: Tantacrul / Martin KearyTantacrul a/k/a Martin Keary is a Irish YouTuber based in the UK who produces videos about music. He's most famous for critiquing the user interface of music notation software like Sibelius or MuseScore, and he got hired at Muse Group to implement the changes he wanted to MuseScore.
Farmers may remember Muse Group for buying out Audacity in 2021, then proceeding to add telemetry, which started a whole shitshow involving a fork of it named Tenacity ran by an inexperienced schizo named Cookiengineer who claimed to have been harassed by 4chan including at his house in Germany, blaming it on the competing Sneedacity fork.
In January of 2023, Martin's content took an unexpectedly dark turn when he decided to make a video about Sanctioned Suicide.
Before we present his embellished account, let's first cover what actually happened. In November of 2022, Tantacrul stumbled across someone named System64 in his Discord server who uploaded a goodbye video to his YouTube channel, who was a 17-year-old boy from Italy.
"Announcement / message"
In it, he announced he would upload his last piece of music and then kill himself. His name seems to be Matteo, judging by a tribute his friend made:
Tantacrul did some searching and discovered his goodbye thread on Sanctioned Suicide under the name of SpentStardust:
source (a)
Matteo's intent was to decapitate himself on a passing train since he was unable to get SN (sodium nitrite):
source (a)
Italian news confirmed he died on the 18th of November. The article doesn't say it, but it's likely he did indeed decapitate himself since it says the rescuers could do nothing more but to confirm his death.
Google translated:
17-year-old dies hit by a train: traffic slowed down
Subtitle: The episode shortly before 2 pm near the Melegnano station. On site 118 and railway police
Photo: Man dies under a train in Melegnano (Milan)
source (a)
Martin registered on the site as Jonels on November 21st, presumably to hide who he was while he did some investigating. But on the next day, he fully revealed himself as Tantacrul and made a thread about the death of SpentStardust.
source (a)
In it, he advocates for a protocol to ask three questions if someone wants to kill themselves: Are they underage, have they tried to receive treatment, and have they spoken to a professional.
The thread was met with mixed reaction. Some agreed, while others didn't. Most notably, people disagreed because it just simply wouldn't help. People lie about their age all the time, and many people on the site are still suicidal after receiving countless treatments and talking to countless professionals.
Eventually, RainAndSadness banned him for being an asshole:
source (a)
Over the next couple of months, Martin worked on his video before releasing it in January of 2023.
"Encouraging the Young to Die - The Most Toxic Site I've Ever Seen"
To put it bluntly, it's a load of horseshit. The title is misleading and the thumbnail is a lie. The biggest problem is that almost everything is redacted, including the name of the site and what suicide methods he's talking about. He doesn't even provide any screenshots either, preferring instead to recreate the graphics himself. No archives are provided and there is absolutely nothing to back up his word besides "dude trust me".
In summary, basically everything is wrong or misleading. However, I will give him credit for not wanting to alter Section 230, and recognizing that doing so is fraught with trouble and potentially nasty consequences.
- Video starts off with the obligatory, tired and overused content warning.
- (1:00) Tantacrul recounts how he found System64's YouTube channel and goodbye video, but he calls him "Bobby C" instead.
- (1:27) After some searching, he found his goodbye thread on Sanctioned Suicide, but Martin prefers to call it "Sorrow Solution". He also does not specify the method he used (train decapitation).
- (2:00) He passed the information to authorities, but unfortunately it was too late.
- (2:50) He claims all online activity of "Bobby C" has since been removed.
Uhh, no? That's COMPLETE BULLSHIT. - (3:00) He goes over how "Bobby C" was in Tantacrul's Discord server but never announced his suicidal intentions to anyone.
- (4:00) He cites "guidelines for media reporting" as a reason why he's calling the site "Sorrow Solution". Get ready to hear him repeat "guidelines for media reporting" a lot.
- (4:10) Martin is speaking to none other than Kelli Wilson, the woman who doxed a member of the forum and called for Marquis to be publicly executed which got her suspended from Twitter. Apparently she contacted him after seeing the objections he posted on the forum, which means she's spending way too much time online looking at Sanctioned Suicide and is obsessed with it.
- (5:05) Ok she literally says she stares at the suicide website "12-18 hours a day". You can't make this shit up.
- (5:35) She introduced him to the other insane parents who have nothing better to do than to be mad at the Internet for supposedly killing their child. The article on screen references Joe Nihill, who I've covered before.
- (5:50) "First, I want to draw people to the criminal nature of this forum" It's not criminal and it's perfectly legal in the US you disingenuous faggot.
- (5:57) "You won't believe how bad it actually is" I won't believe it, because it's not bad and you are actively lying out your mouth.
- (6:12) He wants to address the users of SS directly. Good luck doing that when you're misrepresenting their entire fucking forum.
- (6:40) He goes over some of the abbreviations they use, including CTB ("Cease to breathe"). Surprisingly, he does not get these abbreviations wrong.
- (7:26) He says the rule to not encourage suicide is a smokescreen and brings up an example of a post titled "I need to CTB tomorrow" in which the first reply gives instructions for a specific method he's not willing to state.
I can't find this post or it's not public. But it doesn't matter because I can cherry-pick too. Here are two threads in which the first reply is "Don’t have to go if you don’t feel right with it." and "Maybe there is still a part of you that wants to live." - (7:55) He claims there's a post where someone said "If you change your mind, call help ASAP" and was told "Why would you say that here?" I can't find this post or it's not public.
- (8:10) He goes over how the site has a policy that users must be 18 or older but doesn't enforce this other than a tickbox. He must be laboring under the assumption that an 18-or-older policy is something that can actually be enforced and that hasn't been circumvented since the dawn of the Internet (yes, even intrusive ID verification you retarded dickhead).
- (9:00) He goes over the philosophies listed in one of the sticked topics. It's this thread and surprisingly he doesn't embellish them much except for reordering nihilism to be first.
- (9:41) As an example of antinatalism he brings up how someone said to not feel sorry for his mom because she used him as a meat shield. I cannot find this post or it's not public. The only time I can find people hating on parents is when they do horrible things like telling their children to kill themselves.
- (10:57) He says the forum basically tells people to not seek help, "help" defined as mental health services. No thought given to the fact that everyone on the forum will tell you "mental health services" have failed them.
- (11:10) He brings up their list of resources, which is this thread. I find it funny how he points out it has "zany pseudoscience alternatives like microdosing LSD" because hormone replacement therapy is at the very bottom.
- (11:45) He brings up a post that I can actually find. It's this one.
He points out a member named "Cake 123" who is actually named FuneralCry. - (12:30) He covers how the site has freedom of speech, as if free speech is bad.
- (13:00) As an example of how bad free speech is, he shows this post.
- (13:25) Says the "site gets millions of pageviews per month" talking point. Gee I wonder where I've heard that before.
- (13:50) Goes over how the site "assisted minors" to die when literally nobody knew "Bobby C" was 17 years old at the time. And it likely wouldn't have changed things anyway. He cites this post:
He shows another reply that seems to be from a different person even though it isn't:
- (15:22) He refers to the thread where "Bobby C" and others planned how he should die, presumably this one. He won't say the method (train decapitation) but he says it was unbelievably shocking how violent it was.
- (15:36) He shows a post that is actually part of a different thread.
He says people reacted with admiration, but uh, no they fucking did not. They were all sad that he died. - (16:00) He goes over goodbye threads and how nobody ever makes an appeal to the original poster.
- (16:22) He brings up the toxic member "Cake 123" (FuneralCry) again.
- (16:30) Then he claims the forum is a cult. Because it has an "alternative ideology" even though all that he's describing is recognition that existing mental health services don't fucking work. Then he says people are cut off from their support networks... even though they're not? It's literally up to users' individual choice if they want to talk to their friends, family or mental health specialists; nobody on the site is forced to not do that.
- (17:34) He shows a post that I cannot find or it's not public.
- (18:06) I can find this post by "Cake 123" though. Here.
- (18:42) He's correct that FuneralCry has over 16,000 posts (18,000 now). I do wonder why they haven't killed themselves yet if they preach about how suicide is great.
- (18:52) He shows a post that I can find. Here.
- (19:10) "How do we know (FuneralCry) isn't a card-carrying murderer?" FuneralCry is very suspicious but this is a loaded question.
- (19:28) He talks about the "partners section" of the site. According to this it's not a section, it's a megathread, and it's members-only, which Tantacrul fails to mention. He also fails to mention that FuneralCry of all people think it's a bad idea:
- (19:50) Then he cherry-picks the example of Craig McInally sexually assaulting someone.
- (20:10) Talks about a partners post where someone wants to go into the forest to die with someone else. This is members-only so I won't bother finding it.
- (22:23) Through here he goes on about how the forum "doesn't protect the vulnerable". His example is someone who gave a false police confession to murder because of his intellectual disability, but also people suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia. This is despite the fact that I can't find any person who is clearly schizophrenic on the forum.
- (23:19) He talks about how people take their own lives when they can see no end to their pain. His mistake is implying that this only happens during a mental health crisis and can't happen if someone is rational and sober.
- (24:25) He talks about a tickbox saying one is of sound mind when they register, and criticizes it. Funnily enough, I can't find this tickbox and I don't know why they would have it.
- (25:03) He dismisses the registration part anyway because the conversations on SS are public.
- (25:58) He talks about members of the site opening up a thread last month to take the site private, to which the site admin (presumably RainAndSadness) denied. I cannot find this thread or it's not public. There is one from shortly after the NYT article however.
- (27:00) He talks about "instruction threads" on how to kill yourself. Cites the "guidelines on media reporting" again so he won't ever name what the fuck he's talking about.
- (27:30) He talks about instructions for the most popular method (presumably sodium nitrite) and describes "incomplete instructions" (presumably because you actually need to get sodium nitrite somehow), and a "funnel" from there going to a second site he names "SS2" that requires a subscription of $100 to join. According to RainAndSadness, he's referring to Exit International and the Peaceful Pill Forums, and their $100 fee seems to confirm that.
Needless to say, implying that Exit is related to SS (by calling them "SS2") is fundamentally pants shitting retarded. The big difference is that Exit is for oldfags 50 years or older, which he never mentions once. Not only that, but they require photo ID. So he's lying through his teeth by implying a minor could somehow sign up and pay $100 to get access to sodium nitrite. It's very fucking disingenuous. - (28:32) Tantacrul finally shows an actual screenshot and not some retarded recreated graphics. Of course, he censored it. Here's the actual post and it's about sodium nitrite.
- (28:46) Another censored screenshot, this one talking about someone named Alejandro who is referred to as "A". I can't find it or it's not public but it's probably about sodium nitrite.
- (29:38) He bought a method and films himself opening it, but it's censored. Again, presumably it's SN. He says it's restricted in the UK.
- (30:05) Cites the NYT article, including the dox of Marquis and Serge and the 45 deaths. Cites the Buzzfeed article about how Marquis ran an incel site too. Tantacrul goes further and states the incel sites have a funnel that leads straight to SS. I'm not going to bother verifying this claim because it's too vague and probably wrong anyway.
- (32:25) Goes over how the site is protected by Section 230.
- (32:26) Points out how the site is still being indexed by Google but they'll bow to pressure from users if people shout loud enough.
- (33:52) Cites statistics on how suicides are on the rise, implying SS is responsible. Fails to consider another potential cause, like say, economy-destroying lockdowns that also drastically ruined people's mental health and affected everyone.
- (34:26) Goes over the "Stop Online Suicide Assistance Act" in the US which makes it a felony to intentionally assist people in taking their own lives. And interviews the Congresswoman who introduced it, Lori Trahan. It does not amend Section 230 but doesn't say how broad the language of the bill can be interpreted.
- (38:26) Cites the case of Joe Nihill from the UK. He reprints the supposed suicide note wanting the site shut down from the NYT article which I can't find anywhere else. Interviews a couple of Brit moms.
- (40:33) Shows censored screenshots of people "blaming the victim". No context is given to them.
- (41:01) Goes over the UK's "Online Safety Bill" which makes it illegal to encourage someone else to self-harm. Good thing it's already forbidden on SS to do just that!
- (43:10) He reiterates how "dangerous and manipulative" SS was to "Bobby C" (System64). He never once considers the actual factors that led Matteo to take his own life, because as it turns out, he never knew him beyond just being a person in his Discord server. There's no fucking way a website did it to him.
- (44:14) He recognizes the people who are not "toxic" but says they are on the site because of the shame and stigma about discussing suicidal feelings. So close, yet so far. They're on the site because they don't want to be involuntarily committed you fucking ape. But he never mentions involuntary commitment once this entire fucking video.
Site administrator RainAndSadness made his own response here which reveals he's a trans woman. He alleges that Tantacrul created several alt accounts and sperged out, although I cannot find these alt accounts.
(KF discussion of Tantacrul video)
Conclusion
This is an emotionally heart wrenching topic. It's tough to read all of that and not feel saddened by the suicides of so many people. But it's easy to come to the wrong conclusion if you let emotions cloud your judgment.There is a growing cabal of mothers, journalists and legislators looking to take down Sanctioned Suicide by any means necessary. They don't care about the consequences of their actions; they will destroy Section 230 if they have to. In fact, many of the gayops they do against Sanctioned Suicide are similar to the gayops pulled against Kiwi Farms:
- Both sites are accused of deaths they have no part in.
- Both sites are accused of behavior or content they simply have never had.
- Both sites are targeted by activists, journoscum and politicians.
- Enemies of both sites frequently break laws or ethics to achieve their goals.
- Enemies of both sites frequently lie and don't give a shit about the truth.
- Both sites' providers, everything from domain to hosting to DDoS protection, is screeched at by an endless army of terminally online people.
(SS still has an active XenForo license and is protected by Cloudflare; but given what happened to KF, it's only a matter of time until enough people complain to XenForo to suspend their license and Matthew Prince to shit on his "principles" and drop them.) - Both sites are excluded from the Wayback Machine.
Whatever you think of the people who frequent SS, it is undeniable that if moralfags succeed in taking them down, this site is next. Attacking SS is just another way to attack KF. After all, Fix The 26 purports to change Section 230 because of one suicide website, without considering the huge ramifications that would happen. Any weapon used against SS can easily be turned on KF as well, and people who spend 12-18 hours online every day have all the time in the world to make them.
P.S.
After this thread was posted, many of the figures mentioned in this OP have joined the Kiwi Farms and posted here, including:- @afounder (verified to be one of the founders of Sanctioned Suicide) providing more details behind the site
- @Sjm411 (claimed to be Catherine Adenekan) arguing against the site
- @Tantacrul (not yet verified) responding to criticisms of his video
- and many Kiwi Farmers who have used the site, sharing their experiences.
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