War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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One thing about the tanks people often forgot in their discussion is...how the fuck is the Ukrainian going to maintain all those different systems during the war. It's going to be logistical nightmare isn't it? Respect to whoever is going to be in charge in all of this shit
Especially anything made by the Germans because they’re autistic.
 
One thing about the tanks people often forgot in their discussion is...how the fuck is the Ukrainian going to maintain all those different systems during the war. It's going to be logistical nightmare isn't it? Respect to whoever is going to be in charge in all of this shit
NATO mechanics or "volunteers" from their countries of origin, and having to rotate them out frequently.
I'm going out on a limb here, and wondering if they are going to assign different vehicles to different units; i.e. some units fielding T-series with 2A46 guns; some units fielding M1s with American L/44, some units fielding Leo-2s with German L/55, etc., etc. It wont help with shit like transmissions, gear boxes, treads, axles, etc.; but at least as far as bringing ammo to the front lines goes.

Like I said previously, Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place.
If your choices are 1) logistical nightmare and 2) losing a defensive war; suddenly a logistical nightmare doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
 
NATO mechanics
They can't officially be mechanics, because if they get killed on the battlefield that could be an act of war since they're military contractors of a foreign entity. I imagine the ideal way for Ukraine to own and manage a fleet of European-American tanks is by having its own mechanics be trained to learn how to use them and to have repair depots in neighboring NATO countries like Poland, Hungry or Romania. That way only Ukrainian mechanics are near the battlefield.

Germany sends Leopard tanks to Ukraine​

After months of debate, Chancellor Scholz has managed to deliver battle tanks to Ukraine. The allies apparently want to go along too. Abrams tanks could come from the United States.

The decision has been made: Germany will deliver Leopard 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine. According to SPIEGEL information, it is about at least one Leopard 2A6 company.

Other allies, including those from Scandinavia, also want to deliver Leopard 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine. The Federal Government wants to grant approval for the export of tanks owned by other countries such as Poland.

The » Wall Street Journal « reported on Tuesday afternoon that the delivery of Abrams battle tanks in the United States was being considered in a not inconsiderable number. France is also considering delivering main battle tanks to Ukraine.

The German decision was apparently preceded by intensive coordination over several days with the allies, particularly in Washington. Scholz had always emphasized that he only wanted to deliver main battle tanks in association with other nations such as the USA.

Most recently there had been reports of upset between Germany and the US administration, about which Scholz had been annoyed internally.

According to SPIEGEL information, the German Leopard tanks are to come from Bundeswehr stocks. In the medium to long term, further battle tanks from industrial stocks could be prepared for use.

Most recently, the government partners Greens and FDP increased the pressure on Scholz to deliver the Ukraine main battle tank. The Chancellor recently decided to provide the Marder armored personnel carrier to Ukraine.

I imagine it took them this long because they didn't want to officially be on Moscow's shitlist. Germany has been trying to court Russia over the past decade with two prior Chancellors even after Crimea for gas. While I'm sure there's a prominent anti-war faction that feels guilty over the Second World War, I think it was realpolitik that was guiding Germany into caution over sending Leopards to Ukraine and not a deeper psychological motive for it. Germany didn't want to completely severe ties with Russia when the war ends and they need gas prompto. Maybe it's the cynic in me but when they asked for the US to send Abrams in tandem, that tells me they want their delivery of tanks to be part of a larger coalition package and not a direct intervention from Germany against Russia. Not saying I don't agree, I think the US should send Abrams to Ukraine but it felt like Germany was trying to hide behind it.
 
They can't officially be mechanics, because if they get killed on the battlefield that could be an act of war since they're military contractors of a foreign entity. I imagine the ideal way for Ukraine to own and manage a fleet of European-American tanks is by having its own mechanics be trained to learn how to use them and to have repair depots in neighboring NATO countries like Poland, Hungry or Romania. That way only Ukrainian mechanics are near the battlefield.

I imagine it took them this long because they didn't want to officially be on Moscow's shitlist. Germany has been trying to court Russia over the past decade with two prior Chancellors even after Crimea for gas. While I'm sure there's a prominent anti-war faction that feels guilty over the Second World War, I think it was realpolitik that was guiding Germany into caution over sending Leopards to Ukraine and not a deeper psychological motive for it. Germany didn't want to completely severe ties with Russia when the war ends and they need gas prompto. Maybe it's the cynic in me but when they asked for the US to send Abrams in tandem, that tells me they want their delivery of tanks to be part of a larger coalition package and not a direct intervention from Germany against Russia. Not saying I don't agree, I think the US should send Abrams to Ukraine but it felt like Germany was trying to hide behind it.
The reason Germany doesn't want to send tanks is because the former prime minister was a member of the Stasi
And the current prime minister is a former member of the Socialist youth party which was directly tied to East Germany it's super weird how all the post Cold War leaders in Germany would definitely not tied directly to Soviet military intelligence never look into that.
 

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They can't officially be mechanics, because if they get killed on the battlefield that could be an act of war since they're military contractors of a foreign entity.
If that were true, then what about the thousands of volunteer & state contracted medics, electricians, GSE techs, engineers, etc from NATO countries? Not an insignificant number have been killed by Russian missiles & artillery so far.
I imagine the ideal way for Ukraine to own and manage a fleet of European-American tanks is by having its own mechanics be trained to learn how to use them and to have repair depots in neighboring NATO countries like Poland, Hungry or Romania.
They're way ahead on that count; we started training a core of their maintainers on systems like NASMS, Patriot, M777, HIMARS, etc, months before they actually got to Ukraine; the first classes likely got shipped to training sites before confirmations were made publicly.
 
NATO mechanics or "volunteers" from their countries of origin, and having to rotate them out frequently.
I'm going out on a limb here, and wondering if they are going to assign different vehicles to different units; i.e. some units fielding T-series with 2A46 guns; some units fielding M1s with American L/44, some units fielding Leo-2s with German L/55, etc., etc. It wont help with shit like transmissions, gear boxes, treads, axles, etc.; but at least as far as bringing ammo to the front lines goes.

Like I said previously, Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place.
If your choices are 1) logistical nightmare and 2) losing a defensive war; suddenly a logistical nightmare doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
The different guns don't present a big issue, as they can largely fire the same ammunition, allegedly barring the latest M829(M256 is rated for higher chamber pressure than Rh L/44). At most their fire control systems will have to be updated with the ballistics of new ammo.

The majority of maintenance on tanks is to their automotive components. You would still want to keep them operating separately because an Abrams and Leopard 2 have completely different powerpacks, wheels, and track links.
 
This is turning into a playground for high-tech toys lmao. Slavs are the targets.

Strongly agree.

Likely what happened is, Germany saw the bank Saudis are making from making/selling military equipment and they want a piece of that. Keep in mind Germany cares only about 1 thing, and that's Germany.
 
One thing about the tanks people often forgot in their discussion is...how the fuck is the Ukrainian going to maintain all those different systems during the war. It's going to be logistical nightmare isn't it? Respect to whoever is going to be in charge in all of this shit
Ukrainian mechanics are going to need a shitload of therapy after the war from having to memorize the parts codes and designations for 80% of military equipment made in the last several decades.
 
I had read somewhere that the annexations in Ukraine added 12M to the Russian Federation.
Uhm.

Let's see. All numbers are pre-war (pre-2014), don't include migrations, evacuations or the fact that ruzzia never took control of all "aneexed" territory:

- Donetsk Oblast - 4 millions in all of it in 2014, DPR captured ~half of it (DPR in the day of annexation has 1,8-2,2 million residents according to their declarations);
- Luhansk Oblast - 2,2 millions residents in 2014, LNR was controlling less than half of territory, but most of population 1,4 mln according to them;
- Zaporizhzhia Oblast - approx. 1,7 mln residents before war. "Annexed" by ruzzia, but they never took control over its capital (700 thousands) nor most of big cities;
- Kherson Oblast - 1 million pre-war population, ruzzia also didn't control whole of it a few months earlier they retreat from capital of it.
- Crimea - approx. 1,9. million.

Even if we count pre-war population, add Crimea "annexed" in 2014 and didn't care about that ruzzia never took control of whole "annexed" territory it is around 10,9 millions. On controlled territory at the time of maximum ruzzkies control (before liberation of Kherson) pre-war population was around 6 millions, but without knowing exactly number of evacuated, deported or already mobilized population this tells us nothing.

I assume that the annexations weren't just LPR/DPR/Crimea but also included Zaporizhzhia, Kherson (at the time) and Kharkiv (at the time)
Nope.

Even ruzzkies never try to "annex" Kharkiv. They also never took control over it.
 
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Even ruzzkies never try to "annex" Kharkiv. They also never took control over it.
The Russians tried in 2014 before being overwhelmed by local milita and military. They always seem to have it included in their novorussian fantasy land maps and made one of those faggy "Democratic Republic" flags for Kharkiv with the same design cues as the L/DDPK flags.
 
They always seem to have it included in their novorussian fantasy land maps and made one of those faggy "Democratic Republic" flags for Kharkiv with the same design cues as the L/DDPK flags.
Same for Odessa.

But in Kharkiv and Odessa ukrainian govermental forces was dormant, and true patriots do what they must - just killed every single proruzzkie idiot and whole in spe 'people's parliaments'.
 
Same for Odessa.

But in Kharkiv and Odessa ukrainian govermental forces was dormant, and true patriots do what they must - just killed every single proruzzkie idiot and whole in spe 'people's parliaments'.
Russia managed to take over these areas in 2014 so easily because they were thoroughly infiltrated. Everywhere else it didn't pan out, their glowies were hunted down.
 
One thing about the tanks people often forgot in their discussion is...how the fuck is the Ukrainian going to maintain all those different systems during the war. It's going to be logistical nightmare isn't it? Respect to whoever is going to be in charge in all of this shit
What are you talking about?

They would just hire people to do it for them as I foresee a great deal of demand for defense contractors in Ukraines future.

Here is how it will work. Ukraine will get $10 Billion or so a year but in the legislation will a requirement to purchase NATO compatible weapons with specific focus put on US made weapons. Of course, the NATO made weapons for export will come at a premium sometimes being 30% - 40% more than the domestic version.

Next will come the consultants to help teach the Ukrainians all the different weapons systems and this will continue for decades.

The defense industry will donate to politicians and campaign for them so this foreign aid continues.
 

Ukraine's foreign minister thanks Polish counterpart for tank pledge and says "fighter jets" are next goal​

Ukraine’s foreign minister said Wednesday that he had thanked his Polish counterpart in a phone call for leading the way on pledging Leopard 2 battle tanks.

“I had a call with @RauZbigniew and thanked Poland which was the first country to publicly announce Leopard 2 delivery, thus contributing crucially to the forming of the tank coalition,” Dmytro Kuleba said on Twitter.

“We have new tasks ahead: Western-type fighter jets, sanctions, Peace Formula implementation.”
He said that the two discussed how better to support passenger and cargo rail between Poland and Ukraine.


Ukrainian defense minister says "more good news" to be announced following call with US counterpart​

Ukraine's Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov had a phone call with US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin on Wednesday, Reznikov tweeted.

“Discussed the results of #Ramstein 8, further strengthening of #UAarmy, including tanks supplies&maintenance of the new armament,” the Ukrainian official said, adding that “more good news” will be announced soon.

Ukraine is in line to receive dozens of Leopard 2 tanks. Here’s what countries pledged so far​


The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has called on allies in possession of German-made Leopard 2 tanks to send “as many of them as possible” now that Germany has said it will give Kyiv tanks from Berlin’s own inventory and approve their re-export from other countries to Ukraine.

An aide to Ukraine’s Presidential Administration Mykhailo Podolyak told CNN last week that Kyiv wanted “300 to 400 of these tanks,” which he said could, “sharply accelerate the tempo of the war and initiate the closing stages.”

CNN cannot confirm the total number of Leopard 2 tanks to be delivered, but pledges made by at least five countries mean the Ukrainian military is in line to receive dozens of the tanks.

Here’s a look at what countries have pledged so far:

Germany: Berlin has said it will provide 14 Leopard 2 tanks, which it described as “a first step."

Poland: A top foreign policy adviser to the Polish President has told CNN that Warsaw wanted to send “one company” of tanks. Marcin Przydacz, Head of the President’s International Policy Bureau, would not specify exactly how many tanks Poland intended to send but said that a company of tanks was usually made up of “between 10 and 14 Leopard 2 vehicles.”

The Netherlands: Prime Minister Mark Rutte told CNN affiliate RTL News on Wednesday that his government would “seriously consider” purchasing the 18 Leopard 2 tanks it leases from Germany and sending them to Ukraine. The Netherlands doesn’t own any of the tanks.

Norway: Two Oslo-based newspapers reported on Tuesday that the Norwegian government was considering whether to send some of its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, according to Reuters. Dagens Naeringsliv reported that Norway might contribute between 4 and 8 of the country’s 36 Leopard 2 tanks. The Norwegian defense minister told CNN: “We do not wish to comment on these deliberations or any ongoing or future contributions.”

Spain: Defense Minister Margarita Robles has said Madrid is willing to send some of its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, Spanish state news agency EFE reported Wednesday. However Robles said it was not immediately possible to determine how many of the tanks might be sent.

In addition to the Leopard 2s, the US is finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams main battle tanks to Ukraine, two US officials familiar with the deliberations told CNN on Tuesday.

The UK has already announced it will send 12 of their Challenger 2 tanks to aid the Ukrainian offensive.

CNN's Claudia Otto, Antonia Mortensen and Al Goodman contributed reporting to this post.

 
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One thing about the tanks people often forgot in their discussion is...how the fuck is the Ukrainian going to maintain all those different systems during the war. It's going to be logistical nightmare isn't it? Respect to whoever is going to be in charge in all of this shit
NATO mechanics or "volunteers" from their countries of origin, and having to rotate them out frequently.
I'm going out on a limb here, and wondering if they are going to assign different vehicles to different units; i.e. some units fielding T-series with 2A46 guns; some units fielding M1s with American L/44, some units fielding Leo-2s with German L/55, etc., etc. It wont help with shit like transmissions, gear boxes, treads, axles, etc.; but at least as far as bringing ammo to the front lines goes.

Like I said previously, Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place.
If your choices are 1) logistical nightmare and 2) losing a defensive war; suddenly a logistical nightmare doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

You aren't wrong but its more an issue of spare parts than manpower. Tank mechanic course of the US army is like a month, and while there is much more to learn, that's what you need to get a dumb highschooler ready to service an Abrams.
Some of the parts for the NATO tanks are standardized or moderatedly interchangable, or could be made interchangeable if needed.

Other than pointing out potential logistics issues I don't care to try speculate more than that. Since the Khariv offensive I haven't gotten a good pulse for Ukraine logistics; before they were doing better than the Russians, but a) its not hard to do better than the Russians, and b) its easy on defense. Even Russian logistics have changed, they've learned to keep their ammo dumps out of HIMARS range for example. We don't even know where the Leopards and Abrams will be deployed, or what upgrade levels they'll be.

The different guns don't present a big issue, as they can largely fire the same ammunition, allegedly barring the latest M829(M256 is rated for higher chamber pressure than Rh L/44). At most their fire control systems will have to be updated with the ballistics of new ammo.
Yeah, this is a bigger problem: not if they can shoot, but how well they can shoot since the biggest NATO tank advantage is range/accuracy.
 
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