Jesus is not the Messiah, change my mind

[byuu]

You expect me to believe that the messiah would have a Mexican name like Jesus?

 

[MadStan]

What the fuck is wrong with you?
How the fuck do you correlate to a specific branch of royalty with the Messiah?
I came here for a fucking theological beef, I expected some real nigga shit like Rashi or Nestorius.
Instead I get some dyslexic retard who can't read or write.
View attachment 4334737
Lay off the weed and read about context and shit. Maybe get a dictionary.

That’s pretty fucking rich coming from a guy who believes in fairy tales And horseshit. Your devotion is hundreds of years old and is literally the calling card of a barbarically simple
Mind that requires child like devotion to a fairy tale. There is more evidence Donald Duck created the universe than a guy in the sky - at least we can agree Donald Duck is at least somewhat real and not imaginary.

But here you are flaking off a guy for his interpretation of literally a pile of horseshit because your interpretation of horseshit so somehow better adjusted.

In no image of an advanced human species does the idea of the ridiculous devotion to a mass delusion take place.

Reality is subjective of course but this idea of God or King JC really takes the cake in the ultimate sign of mind that can not accept the true reality of the universe. The universe is actually more wonderful when one understands God as we’ve defined it does not exist. This comes from a person who was deeply religious for the first half of his life. But you can call me crackers I don’t care; because according to you God will Dox me anyways.

 

[EyeGuy]

@Rainbow Child I can't possibly reply to every verse on the list, but I'll address the first few:

1. Genesis 3:15 - There is nothing that implies a virgin birth here, or that limits the conflict between the snake and the descendant of the woman to one particular person, any more so than the curses on the woman (painful childbirth and male domination) and man (labor and mortality) are limited to Adam and Eve exclusively.

2. Gen 3:24 - Elijah was also assumed into heaven, and no one thinks that either he or Enoch became God. There's no reason to read the verse as necessarily "prefiguring" anything, and if it is, why Jesus more than Elijah?

3. Gen 9:26-27 - I don't know what this is referring to, as there's no mention of Shem's descendants anywhere in the verse.

4. Gen 12:3 - I think there's a mistake here (possibly confusion with 28:14) because strictly speaking the verse doesn't mention Abraham's descendants. In any case, there's nothing here that indicates Jesus. Either the name of Abraham himself will be used as a blessing (similar to 48:20), or he (or his descendants) will cause the nations to be blessed.

I think these are illustrative of why I'm not very impressed by the stuff that gets thrown out - when you go check them, you usually find that a) the source simply doesn't say what's being claimed and/or b) you can only interpret it as referring to Jesus if you're already convinced of Christian doctrine and willing to read it back into the text.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

Jesus is not the messiah because he's a rip off of Dionysos who actually gave humanity wine to ease their suffering. What did Christianity give us? Pedo fag priests leave girls to rot in the Church attic for almost two decades? The Dark Ages? Fear of washing?

 

[ditto]

If he's not the messiah then he's a very naughty boy!

 

[Snuckening2]

-Deuteronomy 4;2 says that you can't add, or subtract from scripture.... a millennia before the entire New Testament was added to scripture. (Christians are often happy to use this verse to dismiss Mormons., or sometimes Muslims. But overlook the fact it disqualifies THEIR OWN religion, to the exact same extent)

-All thru the gospels, Jesus' most frequently-repeated prophesy was claiming that he'd return for the "second coming", within the lifetime of the disciples- A clear, unambiguous promise to return less than one generation after the ascension (Matt 10;23, 16;28, 10;5, Mark 9;1, 13; 24, 13;30, Luke 9;27, etc. John 21;20, Revalation 1;1, Thessalonians 4;17, etc).

-The above, constantly-repeated prophesy is self-evidently unfullfillled- It stopped being possible almost 2,000 years ago. Most Christians just ignore it, like they ignore their own violation on of Deut 4;2. But THEIR OWN holy book is clear and direct about prophesies that fail to eventuate....

-Deuteronomy 18;21 "And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath NOT spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him"

If Jesus had only made that prophesy ONCE, that would still be a huge problem (can't claim divine knowledge/to be the embodiment of an omnipotent God, but get stuff wrong), but maybe there'd be SOME cope you could use to work around it. But this was his MOST OFTEN-REPEATED PROPHESY, which objectively failed. Jesus' contemporaries/disciples had every reason to believe this was his CORE, most central message... But it's virtually erased from modern Christianity; You won't hear any sermons about it in chirch, and many modern Christians, even self-described "devout" Christians, don't know Jesus ever5 said this stuff.

There are buttloads of fundamental problems with Christianity (Deut 4;2 making it all a non-starter. The gospels relying on 3 anonymous acounts that never even CLAIM to be written by witnesses. And the one gospel author who DOES name himself, explicitly says he WASN'T a witness, admitting he's just repeating 3rd-hand hearsay. Jesus' mixed messages, preaching adherance to OT laws, while also preaching violating/ignoring those laws, and breaking them himself. The whole post-hoc "New Covenant" meme, never mentioned by Yahweh/Jesus, but only by Paul- Meaning the religion's most important doctrine, negating God's own OT laws, is built on the commands of a mortal man who never even MET Jesus in the flesh, even according to THEIR OWN narrative. Internal contradictions AND historical contradictions in the gospels), but IMO the worst is the failure of Jesus' prophesies.

Christianity is less of a shitshow than Islam, but that's about ALL it has going for it. Of course, EVERY religion has excuses/"apologetics" for it's obvious flaws, which believers will ALWAYS accept. Muslims have cope (which they sincerely believe) for worshipping a "morally perfect" slave-trading, camel-piss-drinking pedo, and for claiming that a book which says the sun sets in muddy pool every night is "scientifically infallable". Mormons have excuses (which they sincerely believe) for the self-evident flaws in thier religion. And Christianity does the same as Muslims and Mormons- But for all three cases, any reasonable, unbiased, constistent evaluation reveals it to be a complete joke; In all three cases, it's only those ALREADY invested in the belief system (born into it, >90% of the time) who think this stuff makes sense.

And spare me the "Jew" meme- Nigger, it's not ME who chose to accept the Hebrew bible as "truth"- I'm just consistantly applying THE CHRISTIAN belief in the Jewish Torah/"Old Testament"

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

That’s pretty fucking rich coming from a guy who believes in fairy tales And horseshit. Your devotion is hundreds of years old and is literally the calling card of a barbarically simple
Mind that requires child like devotion to a fairy tale. There is more evidence Donald Duck created the universe than a guy in the sky - at least we can agree Donald Duck is at least somewhat real and not imaginary.

But here you are flaking off a guy for his interpretation of literally a pile of horseshit because your interpretation of horseshit so somehow better adjusted.

In no image of an advanced human species does the idea of the ridiculous devotion to a mass delusion take place.

Reality is subjective of course but this idea of God or King JC really takes the cake in the ultimate sign of mind that can not accept the true reality of the universe. The universe is actually more wonderful when one understands God as we’ve defined it does not exist. This comes from a person who was deeply religious for the first half of his life. But you can call me crackers I don’t care; because according to you God will Dox me anyways.

Reality is subjective
but

 

[Smug]

All thru the gospels, Jesus' most frequently-repeated prophesy was claiming that he'd return for the "second coming", within the lifetime of the disciples- A clear, unambiguous promise to return less than one generation after the ascension (Matt 10;23, 16;28, 10;5, Mark 9;1, 13; 24, 13;30, Luke 9;27, etc. John 21;20, Revalation 1;1, Thessalonians 4;17, etc).

If you're going to try and make an argument, at least state when you're going to begin with completely different presuppositions. You'd need to pre-emptively believe in no heaven or Kingdom of God or anything like that to see those as a "clear, unambiguous promise to return less than one generation after the ascension".

Here's a fun example:
Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Mmm, yes. Very clear, much unambiguous. 'Shortly' clearly meaning 'within one generation' - except that it never has had to. If you want to play with relative timespans, 'shortly' can be as ambiguous as we please.

Deut 4;2 making it all a non-starter.

Deuteronomy 4;2 says that you can't add, or subtract from scripture

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Sounds more like a list of commandments than 'scripture' in general. I wonder what the preceding verse is.

Deuteronomy 4:1
Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgements, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.

Oh, would you look at that. It's referring specifically to the statutes and judgements given by God to the budding nation of Israel while still under Moses's rule.

Imagine my shock seeing that you decided to try to take a verse out of context.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

Jewish canon versus jewish headcanon . Two millenia worth of sperging

 

[Mothra1988]

You gotta be an awful big idiot to really believe in heaven, hell and the great divine one. But whatever floats your boat. Instead accept the truth you’ll die someday and you won’t be around to cry about it. On the upside, you won’t have to put up with an eternity of listening to your mother and father, their parents, and their parents, and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents…you get the idea.

Even children can communicate with the dead. I don't know why people in modern US society act like this is some huge impossiblity. Most other socieites accept it as fact because they actually pay attention to things that happen around them and don't have their opinions programmed for them by CNN.

 

[Mothra1988]

Jesus is not the messiah because he's a rip off of Dionysos who actually gave humanity wine to ease their suffering. What did Christianity give us? Pedo fag priests leave girls to rot in the Church attic for almost two decades? The Dark Ages? Fear of washing?

Modern historians agree Jesus was historical and was crucified by the Romans, so your idea that's ripped off from something else from mythology is horse shit.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

If you weren't biased by your Judeo-Xtian upbringing, you'd be able to admit Dionysos is objectively superior to Jesus. And hotter.

 

[Esau]

Modern historians agree Jesus was historical and was crucified by the Romans, so your idea that's ripped off from something else from mythology is horse shit.

Modern historians also believe that men ought to sodomize eachother.

We shouldn't take what they say very seriously. Cite direct sources instead of appealing to modern academics.

(Yes, Christ was crucified by the Romans, which fufilled biblical prophecy)

 

[Rex Mendicorvm]

It’s amazing how almost none of you nignogs have a proper religious epistemology. Let me help:

Is there a God?

Yes (Aquinas’s existential arg (see Gaven Kerr))

Has He made Himself known?

Only applicable historical revelation: Jesus Christ (“Before Abraham was, I AM.”)

Which version of Christ’s revelation is true?

Only historically plausible candidates: Catholicism & Orthodoxy.

Which one?

Catholicism has a scholastic component that respects rational unpacking of Divine truth (as opposed to the ossified Orthodox tradition), plus it’s been continuously assaulted by heresies (as the Apostle prophesies would occur):

Conclusion: Become Catholic.

 

[Mothra1988]

Modern historians also believe that men ought to sodomize eachother.

We shouldn't take what they say very seriously. Cite direct sources instead of appealing to modern academics.

(Yes, Christ was crucified by the Romans, which fufilled biblical prophecy)

>references modern scholarship on Jesus
>starts ranting about homo butt sex

Get your mental illness treated. I'm not going to spoonfeed some jackass who doesn't believe Napoleon existed because he's in the historical record.

 

[Rex Mendicorvm]

@Mothra1998 what’s your problem with my reasoning? Don’t just trash it and say nothing like a faggot.

 

[Esau]

>references modern scholarship on Jesus
>starts ranting about homo butt sex

Get your mental illness treated. I'm not going to spoonfeed some jackass who doesn't believe Napoleon existed because he's in the historical record.

We have first-hand accounts of Christ's life and teachings, the Gospel. Which has been accurately preserved for thousands of years. Irrc, a fragment of Mark was even carbon-dated to around 70 A.D, which was within the lifetime of our Lord).

Modern academics, who are not Christian, and appply Textual Criticism unto the Scriptures, are bad sources. Because when we try to contend the faith using their scholarship, scoffers will also state that:

1. The Exodus didn't happen
2. The God of the Old Israelites was
appropriated from the Cananites
3. Adam, Eve weren't real people
4. Jesus wasn't resurrected
5. Mary was not a virgin
6. Paul had a seizure in Damascus
Etc.

We should just use the NT, along with other contemporary documents from the first century, rather rely upon men which are hellbound.

 

[Mothra1988]

We have first-hand accounts of Christ's life and teachings, the Gospel. Which has been accurately preserved for thousands of years. Irrc, a fragment of Mark was even carbon-dated to around 70 A.D, which was within the lifetime of our Lord).

Modern academics, who are not Christian, and appply Textual Criticism unto the Scriptures, are bad sources. Because when we try to contend the faith using their scholarship, scoffers will also state that:

1. The Exodus didn't happen
2. The God of the Old Israelites was
appropriated from the Cananites
3. Adam, Eve weren't real people
4. Jesus wasn't resurrected
5. Mary was not a virgin
6. Paul had a seizure in Damascus
Etc.

We should just use the NT, along with other contemporary documents from the first century, rather rely upon men which are hellbound.

I know you have autism here, but try to read context into the interaction that you were responding to.

A. Person, @Sparkling Yuzu , refers to retarded internet meme from ignorant reddit athiests that Jesus is a mythological figure copied from previous mythological gods like Dionysos due to whatever supposed similarties they believe exist between the two.

B. Considering this person is coming from a stand point of reddit-tier atheism, pointing out the fact that there is virtual universal consensus among historians and scholars that Jesus was an actual historical destroys that argument dead. A real person can't be coped from a myth. Similar suggestions that the passion narrative was copied from mythical deaths is also destroyed by the fact that historians believe he was crucified by the Romans in real life.

C. You come in with your autism that only the Bible can be relied on and not academia. Okay, dude, but just saying "the New Testament says" is not going to work in undercutting that person's false belief that Jesus was just a made up figure.

 

[Esau]

I know you have autism here, but try to read context into the interaction that you were responding to.

A. Person, @Sparkling Yuzu , refers to retarded internet meme from ignorant reddit athiests that Jesus is a mythological figure copied from previous mythological gods like Dionysos due to whatever supposed similarties they believe exist between the two.

B. Considering this person is coming from a stand point of reddit-tier atheism, pointing out the fact that there is virtual universal consensus among historians and scholars that Jesus was an actual historical destroys that argument dead. A real person can't be coped from a myth. Similar suggestions that the passion narrative was copied from mythical deaths is also destroyed by the fact that historians believe he was crucified by the Romans in real life.

C. You come in with your autism that only the Bible can be relied on and not academia. Okay, dude, but just saying "the New Testament says" is not going to work in undercutting that person's false belief that Jesus was just a made up figure.

This was a very good response, thank you.

 

[Fatniggo1488]

@Rainbow Child
I'd add Psalms 141 to that because it does sound almost exactly like what happened during and after the crucifixion.

>1 Lord, I cry unto thee: make haste unto me; give ear unto my voice, when I cry unto thee.

>2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

>3 Set a watch, O Lord, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.

>4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

>5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

>6 When their judges are overthrown in stony places, they shall hear my words; for they are sweet.

>7 Our bones are scattered at the grave's mouth, as when one cutteth and cleaveth wood upon the earth.

>8 But mine eyes are unto thee, O God the Lord: in thee is my trust; leave not my soul destitute.

>9 Keep me from the snares which they have laid for me, and the gins of the workers of iniquity.

>10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets, whilst that I withal escape.

I say this because Christ says to Peter in Matthew 16

>18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

He refers to Peter as a rock, and Peter was largely the one who converted Rome to Christianity. With regards to Rome the wicked (Jews) did fall into their own nets which ultimately led to Christianity flourishing in Rome no longer under Jewish oppressions.