Jesus is not the Messiah, change my mind

You're right. I'm the messiah, you can send donations to me via cashapp
The apostle Paul made a point to never depend on donations when he was proselytizing. He was a tent maker and found gainful employment in whatever community he was living in at the time. He preached after hours. It makes me sick to see so many modern day “preachers” live off of the people they govern.
 
The apostle Paul made a point to never depend on donations when he was proselytizing. He was a tent maker and found gainful employment in whatever community he was living in at the time. He preached after hours. It makes me sick to see so many modern day “preachers” live off of the people they govern.
B-but we need donations to build the mega church!
 
  • Like
Reactions: William Tyndale
There ain't no reliable proof that Jesus actually did magic, but there's reliable evidence that a Christus Jesus existed so at least we know Jesus did exist.
If you dont believe that Jesus is the messiah then you belong to the long nose tribe. And that usually means everlasting fire the the pitchfork with no lube.
If you don't believe Jesus is the messiah but you still follow his teachings cuz he's a cool dude, does that make you a Christian or a Jew?
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Butterschmalz
It should be noted that the Old Covenant and the New Testament are not outright the same canon. Whenever someone says that "The Bible is full of contradictions", they're usually referring to something said in the Old Testament, that was changed, revised, or rescinded, in the New Testament.

The way I personally see it is that the Old Testament is meant to be some kind of proto-history textbook, with a few stories and allegories that may be important lessons for people to learn as they grow up and experience life, as well as to provide context for the literature that the New Testament provides. Christians, as of 0 A.D., do not sacrifice livestock, harvests, or people, for example. Jews did.

Modern-day Jews are also absolutely nothing like historical Hebrews, at all, as well, and I'm not just talking about their genetic lineage. The Old Testament is a mere fraction of the content in the Torah, and the Torah is but one of 3 major written works (The Talmud, or if you're really spicy, Kabbalah) that Jews read/follow. It's called the Old Testament for a reason. It's outmoded, and is in conflict with the Christian New Testament, and the expanded neo-Jewish works.

Jews aren't even consistent on which entity God is to them, anyway. El/Elohim (The One, The Name, with Elohim being plural) was their original diety, which is of Canaanite origin. YHWH, on the other hand, is the Lord of the Hebrews, and, at least initially is/was a separate entity from El in their Pantheon from the Canaanite Era. There are numerous interpretations of this, also. Modern Judaism treats them both as the same thing, but they are not, historically speaking. In the most literal translation of Genesis, El refers to himself as "we", and "our", during the Creation period. Not singularly.

(Genesis 1:26-7): "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

(Genesis 3:22): "See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

What does all of this mean? Probably nothing, possibly everything. Depends on what you believe. Personally, what I take from that, is that the New Testament is the thing Christians should be paying attention to for moral guidance, and explicitly not the Old Testament, although the inclusion of the Old Covenant is important context material. The Atheist takeaway is more than likely, "why would a perfect God have to change his holy book to reflect a new age of man?" The answer is in that hypothetical quote. Humanity changed. God himself, may or may not have.

I find the whole thing very fascinating. Too bad that fascination comes with a heaping dollop of existential dread.
 
Last edited:
It should be noted that the Old Covenant and the New Testament are not outright the same canon. Whenever someone says that "The Bible is full of contradictions", they're usually referring to something said in the Old Testament, that was changed, revised, or rescinded, in the New Testament.
Indeed the Old and New Testaments are different collections of scripture, so they have different books so are not the same. Together they form the canon of scripture.
Absolutely the "contradictions" posed are usually irrelevant details that may literally be a typo (4,000 or 40,000 horse stalls?) or certain laws that were for a time and place and people (e.g. rules for ritual cleanness that only applied to the Tent or Temple, or dress/diet/grooming restrictions to keep the Ancient Israelites separate from those outside the Covenant).
It would be equally silly to say the restrictions on polygamy or divorce in the New Testament (at least when read in light of the traditions) that were absent in the Old Testament is a contradiction. If the claims about God are true, then he is free to reveal his plan for us in his own time, in his own way.

Your comments about the various titles, terms and names used to refer to God are familiar territory. These are from those who deny Moses was a real man, and if he was he wasn't a Prophet, and even if he was a Prophet he didn't write the Scriptures attributed to him. It's irrelevant, since it's just assuming the traditions are wrong, and those traditions are the only way you can determine what is and isn't Scripture.

I would argue that modern Jews, Israelites, Hebrews, and all those who descended or converted to the various branches of the faith are very much like the Ancient Israelites, those in the Kingdom of Israel and Judah who fell into sin, worshipped false gods (many modern people, including Jews etc. worship money, power, and new age evil), and turned their backs on worshipping the Living God in humble obedience (just like most Christians most of the time probably).

The plural in Genesis is consistent with the truth, that the Almighty Creator God is One in Being, but Three Persons, the Trinity.

P.S.: A.D. stands for "Year of our Lord" in Latin I think. There were no Christians really until Jesus was baptized and began proclaiming the Kingdom of God, around 30 AD
 
Last edited:
Well, I'm no exegete, but as I understand the Messiah was supposed to rule the Kingdom of Israel or something, and then Jesus came along and was all "I mean I'm not really like a king king but I'm like a king of heaven or something" which is pretty sus.
 
He's not b/c Messiah is the inter-species dead baby in Ideon
 
Back