War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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It's so funny that Russiaboos keep trying to differentiate modern Russia from the USSR, acting as if the modern Russians aren't fucking Commie-lovers taking orders from a KGB agent.
Haven't seen you in ages buddy, where have you been? Janny jail?
This is the biggest lie, telling me that these faggots have no clue what they're talking about. Russian Federation is a spiritual successor to USSR, with many USSR cronies still in the government, including Putin himself. His electorate are older people nostalgic for USSR and its supposed greatness, state-worshipping submissive niggers.
The lot of them are to blame for these circumstances.
 
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The saddest part is if the Allies had stood up for Czechslovakia in 1938, Hitler would have been done for and the nightmare that followed would have been avoided. The country was a literal fortress with one of the largest, most modern militaries in Europe but the Allies sold them out for "peace in our time".

And then did it again with the invasion of Poland when they sat on their asses rather than attack the completely depleted German forces on the Western Front.
The french and british barely had an army in 1938 and had to garrison massive empires, and it wasn't just germany, hungary and poland wanted parts of czechoslovakia, not to mention the slovaks wanted to try for independence at the time due to issues with the mostly czech government

Lukashenko is cunning enough tho he seems an insane larper, not legitimately elected, and represser of Belarus language. Putin probably wanted Belarussian troops to mobilise in some way, maybe for rear area duties (which free up battle effectives) if they wouldn't be over willing to fight hard and Luka might see himself as the next Tsar / Gen Secretary.
Lukashenko knows how to run an economy and keep corruption in his government to a minimum, he's a pretty decent leader, just sandwiched between an ever nationalistic russia and an eu that wants him removed, he has little care for the war but has to pay lip service to moscow to mantain belarus's independence
 
The french and british barely had an army in 1938 and had to garrison massive empires, and it wasn't just germany, hungary and poland wanted parts of czechoslovakia, not to mention the slovaks wanted to try for independence at the time due to issues with the mostly czech government
The French armed forces were in decent shape in 1938, certainly not on the level of a fully mobilized power but more than a threat to Germany from the west. Britain was in bad shape, nothing really to say there but they wouldn't have had to fight it alone. Of course had they shut down Hitler in 1936 when Germany was much weaker it would have been a lot easier fight.

Czechoslovakia alone had more than a million soldiers mobilized by that time and they were well-equipped and had extensive border defenses. One big question is how the ethnic German population would have responded in the event of an attack on the country...however, I imagine that would also quiet any other issues as the country united against a foreign invader

I always thought Poland's demanding territory was kind of ironic, sure worked out well for them about a year and a half later.
 
A second Su-35S has been confirmed destroyed near Kherson. Unfortunately this one burned up during its crash meaning the tail number is gone and there aren't any good bits to pull off and hand over to Western intelligence but still a nice sum of 43 million dollars gone.



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In a bit of interesting non-combat related news, an "Anti-War" rally is supposed to be happening in D.C., but seems to be currently imploding on itself.
Rage against the War Machine has something of note, it's sponsored by the Libertarian Party, with the Mises Caucus (The largest caucus of the party) also obviously sponsoring it. The Libertarian Party is a joke, but the rally organizers has been putting it front and center to attempt to give some legitimacy to it.
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RATWM seems it's supposed to be an Anti-War rally but started to get serious eyebrows after the speaker list got revealed and more have been added, there's some legitimate Anti-War folks on the speaker list, but many are outspoken in being explicitly Pro-Russia, and one in particular might be the reason the Libertarians seem to be entering a "You leave or we leave" mode in the past week, Scott "Loves Kids" Ritter.
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Scott Ritter seemingly got temporarily removed from the Speaker list around the turn of the month, with claims it was due to the Libertarian Party discovering he's on the list that's says, "Keep away from children", but got reinstated within the next 48 hours, which I'll get back to why that might be.
However, this recent tweet got the Mises Caucus' attention shortly after.
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A couple hours ago the national Libertarian Party put out a statement telling Ritter to please step down and the Mises Caucus shortly after putting out a string of tweets that tell Ritter to back out, and also accuse him of holding the event hostage by telling other speakers to drop out which prevented him from getting the boot right after the Libertarians realized his rap sheet and wanted him out.
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Haven't seen you in ages buddy, where have you been? Janny jail?
This is the biggest lie, telling me that these faggots have no clue what they're talking about. Russian Federation is a spiritual successor to USSR, with many USSR cronies still in the government, including Putin himself. His electorate are older people nostalgic for USSR and its supposed greatness, state-worshipping submissive niggers.
The lot of them are to blame for these circumstances.
And the Russiaboos here in the West want to differentiate between the USSR that supported leftist gayops all over the world, with the modern "STRONG, CONSERVATIVE RUSSIA!" that they jack off to. Not realizing that the latter is ruled by the people who were devoted to the former. Old Soviet boomers, I can understand; they were indoctrinated in Russia by Russians and felt like they were hot shit when the USSR was at the height of its power. But western Russiaboos who identify as nationalist, anti-communist, and anti-leftist? They're fucking hilarious.
 
Opinion article on how if Ukraine wins the war, it is in West interest to support pro democratises movement in Belarus.

I always forget that not everybody realizes when the US says "pro-democracy" what they really mean is "US puppet". Because if you elect the wrong people (see Ukraine pre-2014), they will correct your mistakes for you.
 
Poland ready to train two battalions of Ukrainian Armed Forces every month

Poland has announced its intention to train two battalions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces every month.

Wojciech Skurkiewicz, Deputy Minister of National Defense of Poland, said this at a meeting of the National Defense Committee of the Sejm, according to an Ukrinform correspondent.

He said Poland had presented the largest proposal for training Ukrainian Armed Forces units, declaring its readiness to conduct special group training, particularly for sappers, and provide medical courses and basic training for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

"The Polish proposal is distinguished by a declaration of group training... We will start the training of two Ukrainian battalions at the same time every month," Skurkiewicz said.

According to him, this training will be adapted to the actual needs of the Ukrainian army.

He also said the mission on training units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces should not be limited to training, but should offer the Ukrainian side a comprehensive package regarding the preparation of Ukrainian troops for combat operations. It should also include the free transfer of equipment on which the training is carried out.

Skurkiewicz noted that the training of Ukrainian units takes place as part of an EU mission, in which Poland was one of the main organizers and made the biggest contribution, in particular, by managing the mission at the operational level.

Skurkiewicz also reported that Poland had already delivered 30 batches of military aid to Ukraine, including weapons and ammunition. In addition, through the hub that was created in the southeastern part of the country, "about 50 countries from all over the world send military aid to Ukraine every day on a permanent basis."

"We are determined to support Ukraine in repelling Russian aggression. Ukraine must win this war. Otherwise, the consequences of Russia achieving its goals through aggression will have a destructive effect on the entire international security system," he concluded.


Polish troops training on Patriot missiles to deter aggressors: Deputy PM​


A Polish deputy prime minister has said that Polish soldiers are training on the Patriot air defence systems to demonstrate their combat readiness to any potential aggressors

Mariusz Błaszczak made the declaration in Warsaw on Tuesday, Polish state news agency PAP reported.


The deputy PM, who is also Poland’s defence minister, watched on as Polish troops trained swiftly moving the Patriot batteries to a different location and arranging them into combat shape.

Part of the “Patriot Familiarisation” programme, the exercise took place at the Warsaw-Babice military airfield in the Polish capital, the defence24.pl website reported.

Błaszczak told the assembled media: “These are pre-planned exercises. The soldiers are being trained to move as a unit and assume a new position, as well as to coordinate the various elements that make up the Patriot system.”

The deputy PM stressed that as a rule such drills were kept confidential, but “this time the Defence Ministry deliberately announced them.”

'These drills are designed to deter potential aggressors'

Błaszczak stated: “We’ll be deliberately publicising certain exercises. These drills are designed to deter potential aggressors. We are showcasing the combat readiness of the Polish Army.”

He added that the participating troops were already well-drilled and the exercises were intended to cultivate combat-readiness.

Błaszczak also revealed that a team of Polish air-defence rocket forces would head to the US this week to be trained on the Integrated Air and Missile Defense Battle Command System (IBCS).

“It’s the most advanced system there is, only the US and Polish forces are implementing it,” the defence minister stressed.

The Polish president and defence minister in October attended an event at a training ground in the northern city of Toruń to test the first battery of the country’s newly delivered Patriot surface-to-air missile systems, news outlets reported at the time.

Last month, a Patriot air defence system provided by Germany to bolster NATO’s eastern flank amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine also arrived in Poland, according to officials.

Tuesday is day 349 of Russia’s war against Ukraine

 
I always forget that not everybody realizes when the US says "pro-democracy" what they really mean is "US puppet". Because if you elect the wrong people (see Ukraine pre-2014), they will correct your mistakes for you.
Yes, because all those Ukrainian protesters rallying for democracy were clearly CIA agents shipped in from America.
 
In a bit of interesting non-combat related news, an "Anti-War" rally is supposed to be happening in D.C., but seems to be currently imploding on itself.
Rage against the War Machine has something of note, it's sponsored by the Libertarian Party, with the Mises Caucus (The largest caucus of the party) also obviously sponsoring it. The Libertarian Party is a joke, but the rally organizers has been putting it front and center to attempt to give some legitimacy to it.
View attachment 4462912
RATWM seems it's supposed to be an Anti-War rally but started to get serious eyebrows after the speaker list got revealed and more have been added, there's some legitimate Anti-War folks on the speaker list, but many are outspoken in being explicitly Pro-Russia, and one in particular might be the reason the Libertarians seem to be entering a "You leave or we leave" mode in the past week, Scott "Loves Kids" Ritter.
View attachment 4462691
Scott Ritter seemingly got temporarily removed from the Speaker list around the turn of the month, with claims it was due to the Libertarian Party discovering he's on the list that's says, "Keep away from children", but got reinstated within the next 48 hours, which I'll get back to why that might be.
However, this recent tweet got the Mises Caucus' attention shortly after.
View attachment 4462913
A couple hours ago the national Libertarian Party put out a statement telling Ritter to please step down and the Mises Caucus shortly after putting out a string of tweets that tell Ritter to back out, and also accuse him of holding the event hostage by telling other speakers to drop out which prevented him from getting the boot right after the Libertarians realized his rap sheet and wanted him out.
View attachment 4462916
I saw some of their stuff floating around earlier this week. It's basically a lolcow tier organization imo, it also really reminds me of some of the cold war era anitnuclear groups. Groups that always demanded the western nations give up their nukes, but were conspicuously silent when it came to the topic of the soviets having them
 
I saw some of their stuff floating around earlier this week. It's basically a lolcow tier organization imo, it also really reminds me of some of the cold war era anitnuclear groups. Groups that always demanded the western nations give up their nukes, but were conspicuously silent when it came to the topic of the soviets having them
Last year there was a guy who kept bringing up antiwar.com, a US libertarian anti war news site/blog. Arguing that the US should stay out of the war. Arguing that Ukraine should just roll over. And I'd said those arguments applied equally to the Russians. No response from him.
EDIT: and because this is A&N, I will pay the article tax.

The Fight for Ugledar: Why controlling a small town in southwestern Donbass is so important for the Russian military​

Moscow is hoping it will be third time lucky as the first anniversary of its offensive approaches
The Fight for Ugledar: Why controlling a small town in southwestern Donbass is so important for the Russian military

Russian servicemen are seen as they fire from 2A18 D-30 howitzers toward Ukrainian positions in the course of Russia's military operation in Ukraine, at the unknown location. © Sputnik / RIA News
After the successful capture of Soledar, Russia has continued to advance in Donbass, with battles ongoing. To the southwest, Ugledar – a small mining town a hundred kilometers north of Mariupol – has become the main contact point for Moscow’s troops. If the Russians succeed in this offensive, it will be a significant blow to Ukraine. Potentially, a victory in Ugledar could change the balance of power in the Donetsk area and improve Melitopol’s defenses.
'The entire town is littered with bodies': How Ukraine suffered a humiliating defeat in Soledar after a relentless Russian assault
Read more
'The entire town is littered with bodies': How Ukraine suffered a humiliating defeat in Soledar after a relentless Russian assault

Why is there such a focus on this area?

Another assault on Ugledar was launched on January 24 by Pacific Fleet Marines and special forces from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR). Although Russia made some gains in the early days of the operation and Ukrainian forces suffered heavy losses, little progress has been made in terms of land.
Ugledar is made up of a combination of four blocks of 1960s Soviet-era panel-built multi-story buildings. It differs from more traditional cities in that there are no private houses within the city limits. This makes Ugledar a compact fortress, not only on an elevated site, but with an additional 27 meters of built-up fortification.
These factors have made Ugledar a key part of the Ukrainian defense in southwest Donetsk. Kiev’s continued control of these positions allows its forces to have a grip on the surrounding area, preventing Russians from flanking Marinka, Kurakhovo, and Avdeevka from the south. Also near Ugledar is an important section of the Donetsk-Volnovakha railway line, and the presence of Ukrainian troops near it prevents it from being used for military purposes.
RT

Ugledar, Yuzhno-Donbasskaya mine. © Wikipedia

This is not Moscow’s first attempt to occupy the city

The Russian Army’s first two offensives on Ugledar were unsuccessful. The current front line began to take shape in March last year, after DPR troops broke through Ukrainian defenses at Volnovakha and Granitnoye to link up with Russian forces coming from Crimea. They achieved the strategic task of encircling Mariupol and creating a land corridor between Crimea and Rostov-on-Don. However, the battle for Mariupol delayed the Russian forces and prevented them from taking Ugledar and Velikaya Novoselka to the west.
The logic behind the terror: Why does Ukraine keep attacking civilian areas in Donetsk?
Read more
The logic behind the terror: Why does Ukraine keep attacking civilian areas in Donetsk?

For a long time, this section of the front was the scene of trench warfare and artillery duels. It placed the inhabitants of the villages in the area in a difficult position, dependent on humanitarian aid, the delivery of which was accompanied by regular shelling. A monastery in the village of Nikolskoye, near Ugledar, had become something of a humanitarian hub and shelter. However, it too was regularly bombed.
On June 22, the Ukrainian forces launched a counter-attack south of Ugledar, using their control of the high ground to occupy the village of Pavlovka. They failed to advance further than the village of Yegorovka, but this counter-attack was the beginning of a long period of positional fighting to the point of exhaustion. Battles continued throughout the summer in the forest belt between Pavlovka and Yegorovka. Both sides suffered heavy casualties, but the front line remained static until the end of October, when the Russians tried to retake Pavlovka.
This attack was not fully thought through. Although the battlefield eventually fell to the Russians, launching an offensive in muddy conditions was not a good idea. The attack on Pavlovka resulted in losses of armored vehicles and was accompanied by difficulties in evacuating the wounded and bringing in reinforcements. As a result, after about ten days of fighting, Pavlovka, below Ugledar, was under the Russian flag, but it wasn’t possible to continue the offensive further north. This experience was widely discussed in the military section of the Russian media, and the generals in charge were heavily criticized.

How the battles are going

Two months later, having prepared their forces for a sudden surge, the Russians launched a third battle for Ugledar. According to DPR official Aleksandr Khodakovsky, who took part in the fighting as part of a police unit, aerial images showed considerable confusion and disorganization in the enemy ranks.
RT

© RT
Success was achieved with a breakthrough from the southeast through a dacha village near Nikolskoye, while the Ukrainians had based their defenses on the expectation of an attack from Pavlovka. As a result, within a few days, the Russians had taken control of the dachas near Nikolskoye, the farms and the granary north of Pavlovka, and entered the southeastern outskirts of Ugledar.
Kiev’s forces, in turn, restructured their defenses by retreating deeper into Ugledar and continuing to use the panel houses as strongholds. The Ukrainian military made the area of the Yuzhno-Donbasskaya Mine No. 1, northeast of Ugledar, the main concentration of reserves for counter-offensive actions.
'This conflict will fundamentally change Russia': A young Muscovite explains why he volunteered to fight Ukraine
Read more
'This conflict will fundamentally change Russia': A young Muscovite explains why he volunteered to fight Ukraine

Units of the 1st Tank Brigade, 35th Marine Division, and according to unconfirmed reports, the 80th Airborne Assault Brigade, were sent in to support the Ukrainians fighting there, in the 72nd Mechanized and 68th Yager Brigades. Thus, despite the lack of meaningful progress and a return to positional fighting, the Russians succeeded in straining Ukrainian reserves and moving them further away from Artemovsk/Bakhmut and Kremennaya, where the Russian offensive is now underway.
As of now, attempts by the Russian military to advance near Ugledar are continuing. According to an adviser to the acting head of the DPR, Igor Kimakovsky, the settlement is partially surrounded.
***
Even in the event of success at Ugledar, a significant push by the Russian Army northwards is unlikely because it would be difficult once Ukraine has moved in reserves. However, Kiev would lose its key stronghold in the area and would be forced to retreat northward, losing a convenient bridgehead for an offensive against the Donetsk-Volnovakha highway and key positions for artillery.
By Vladislav Ugolny, a Russian journalist based in Donetsk
Ruzzia is claiming that taking this small town (population <20k) I've never heard of, without any major rail links or highway links will break the ukrainians back, this time for sure.
 
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Here is the LP/Rage's list of demands:
lpdemands.png


They also issued a statement which includes these blurbs:
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Their position seems to be that Russia is wrong to invade but nothing should be done about it. It is the familiar debate over pacifism. There's a consistency to it even if most others regard it as naive (including me).

Still, libertarians talk as here about the initiation of force. They don't object to meeting force with force, in defense of self or others. So what's the principled objection to aiding a nation defending itself?
 
Here is the LP/Rage's list of demands:
View attachment 4465908

They also issued a statement which includes these blurbs:
View attachment 4465928

Their position seems to be that Russia is wrong to invade but nothing should be done about it. It is the familiar debate over pacifism. There's a consistency to it even if most others regard it as naive (including me).

Still, libertarians talk as here about the initiation of force. They don't object to meeting force with force, in defense of self or others. So what's the principled objection to aiding a nation defending itself?
Controlled opposition. No one is this stupid for free. Also interesting their beef with Scott Ritter is with being "pro-war" and not the fact he's a disgusting pedophile. A lot of lolberts support pedophilia so it shouldn't be a surprise.
 

PM extends Ukraine military training to pilots and marines as President Zelenskyy makes first visit to the UK since Russian invasion​

President Zelenskyy arrives in the UK today to meet the Prime Minister and visit Ukrainian troops.

  • President Zelenskyy arrives in the UK today to meet the Prime Minister and visit Ukrainian troops.
  • Comes as the Prime Minister announces plans to expand training for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to sea and air, including fighter jet pilots and marines, as part of long-term investment in their military.
  • UK also accelerates military equipment to Ukraine in a bid to give Ukrainian forces the upper hand on the battlefield and limit Russia’s ability to target civilian infrastructure.
President Zelenskyy will visit the UK today to meet Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and address parliament as the UK steps up its delivery of lethal aid into the country, and prepares to train fighter jet pilots and marines.

The leaders will discuss a two-pronged approach to UK support for Ukraine, starting with an immediate surge of military equipment to the country to help counter Russia’s spring offensive, and reinforced by long-term support.

The Prime Minister will also offer the UK’s backing to President Zelenskyy’s plans to work towards a just and lasting peace for Ukraine.

As part of today’s talks, the Prime Minister will offer to bolster the UK’s training offer for Ukrainian troops, including expanding it to fighter jet pilots to ensure Ukraine can defend its skies well into the future.

The training will ensure pilots are able to fly sophisticated NATO-standard fighter jets in the future. As part of that long-term capability investment, the UK will work with Ukraine and international allies to coordinate collective support to meet Ukraine’s defensive needs.

He will also offer to begin an immediate training programme for marines.

That training will be in addition to the recruit training programme already running in the UK, which has seen 10,000 Ukrainian troops brought to battle readiness in the last six months, and which will upskill a further 20,000 Ukrainian soldiers this year. The UK will continue to work with the Ukrainian Armed Forces and international community to scale the programme up in 2023.

Just last week, Ukrainian troops arrived in the UK to learn how to command Challenger 2 tanks, following the Prime Minister’s decision to send the main battle tanks to Ukraine.

The Prime Minister will also offer to provide Ukraine with longer range capabilities. This will disrupt Russia’s ability to continually target Ukraine’s civilian and critical national infrastructure and help relieve pressure on Ukraine’s frontlines.

The President and his team will also meet defence and security chiefs, including the Chief of Defence Staff and Chief of the Air Staff, to discuss the details of the training programme.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said:

President Zelenskyy’s visit to the UK is a testament to his country’s courage, determination and fight, and a testament to the unbreakable friendship between our two countries.
Since 2014, the UK has provided vital training to Ukrainian forces, allowing them to defend their country, protect their sovereignty and fight for their territory.
I am proud that today we will expand that training from soldiers to marines and fighter jet pilots, ensuring Ukraine has a military able to defend its interests well into the future. It also underlines our commitment to not just provide military equipment for the short term, but a long-term pledge to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Ukraine for years to come.
The UK will also announce further sanctions today in response to Russia’s continued bombardment of Ukraine, including the targeting of those who have helped Putin build his personal wealth, and companies who are profiting from the Kremlin’s war machine.

 
Here is the LP/Rage's list of demands:
View attachment 4465908

They also issued a statement which includes these blurbs:
View attachment 4465928

Their position seems to be that Russia is wrong to invade but nothing should be done about it. It is the familiar debate over pacifism. There's a consistency to it even if most others regard it as naive (including me).

Still, libertarians talk as here about the initiation of force. They don't object to meeting force with force, in defense of self or others. So what's the principled objection to aiding a nation defending itself?
Lolbertarians gonna lolbert. 99% of Libertarians fail a large portion of what should be criteria for a political goal being considered reasonable. They can always name the "what" but never the "how" or "why" whenever you bring up all the bad shit that will result from their idiotic policies. Shit like legalizing all drugs will simply not result in every city looking like Portland or San Fagshitsco because....it just won't okay!

I'm all for trashing the CIA but to do that you'd need to take every glowie out back and ol' yeller them. How exactly do they plan on negotiating with Russia when Putin is such a schizo he holds babbling psychopaths like Ilyn in high regard? How exactly do you negotiate without the other parties asking "and if I don't?" when you've stated you will never use force? Lolberts are on the same level of naivety as commies, especially when it comes to international subjects.

I'm surprised they're calling out Ritter though since you'd think they'd do their normal lolbert "ummm ackshually it's ephebophelia sweety" thing.
 
They can always name the "what" but never the "how" or "why" whenever you bring up all the bad shit that will result from their idiotic policies. Shit like legalizing all drugs will simply not result in every city looking like Portland or San Fagshitsco because....it just won't okay!

When it comes to Class A narcotics in particular, the "how" is something lolberts can't really accept: extremely strict regulation. If you legalise drugs like cocaine and heroin, you have to accompany it with heavy restrictions on who can use it, where, when, in what form, and possibly how much they're allowed. It would require a level of intervention that would have them screaming NO STEP!!! before the ink on the proposal was dry.

I'm sympathetic to lolberts in a lot of ways, because the state has a nasty habit of getting in the way of the good and amplifying the bad, but there's always going to be a cost associated with what they want.




Ukraine war: Borrowed time for Bakhmut as Russians close in

The soil of Bakhmut is dusted with snow and soaked with blood. This small city in Eastern Ukraine is at the centre of an epic battle.

For more than six months Russian forces have tried to claim it. Ukrainian troops have resisted, giving rise to the popular slogan here "Bakhmut holds."

Now the Russians are attacking from three sides, with regular troops and fighters from the notorious Wagner mercenary group. The Russians have reached one of the main highways into the city, and are closing in on the outskirts.

There is house-to-house fighting in some areas on the outskirts, with "hard battles for every home" according to the Ukrainian military.

It feels like Bakhmut is on borrowed time. If so, Ilya and Oleksii intend to use every second of it.

The two Ukrainian National Guardsmen move swiftly and silently across open ground on the frontlines and then plunge into a trench.

Their camouflage backpacks contain weapons of war - a drone, a modified hand grenade, and a Velcro strap.

The German-made grenade had a tail fin attached, made with a 3D printer, to ensure it exploded on impact.

Ilya - an IT guy turned intelligence officer - makes short work of velcroing the grenade to the drone. Then he launches it towards enemy forces nestled in their trenches, a kilometre and a half away.

"We know there are a lot of Russian soldiers there, walking, living, and sitting," said Oleksii, the drone pilot. "And so, we just give them [a] gift."

"The aim is not to kill a lot of soldiers but to make them afraid of our sky, to make them watch out every second. It's psychological pressure."

He shows us a drone's eye view as he releases the grenade over a frozen expanse. We can see the impact on his screen but can't tell if they were casualties below.

Oleksii says the fighting in Bakhmut is tough, emotionally and physically: "It's hard, but we are staying here, and we will protect Bakhmut and the area around it as much as we can."

But Ukraine is counting the cost and there's speculation it could withdraw to avoid further heavy losses.

In the Kremlin, a clock is ticking - counting down to the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of its neighbour, on 24 February 2022. President Putin wants a victory before then. Taking Bakhmut would give him one, and bring him closer to his aim of capturing all of the mineral rich Donbas region.

To reach Bakhmut you drive along winding back roads. The route we used for previous trips last September is now classed as "suicidal" because of constant Russian attacks.

The city is now a shell. The thud of incoming and outgoing fire echoes through empty streets. Missiles have punched holes through buildings. Power and water supplies are long gone, along with most of the pre-war population of about 70,000.

But some families have remained here, with their children, sheltering in the shadows.

Anna, who is seven, is a bright spark in an airless dark basement. Tiny gold earrings glint in her ears, her blonde hair is tied back in a ponytail, and she's wearing a pink sweater. Her colourful drawings line the walls but it still feels like a prison cell.

Anna lives with her mother Yulia, grandfather Valery, two cats and Mushka the dog. She proudly shows us her favourite soft toys, but her blue eyes stand out against her pale complexion.
Anna has befriended Pavlo Dyachenko from Ukraine's team of White Angels

"I sit in the cellar almost all day long," she tells me in a lilting voice. "Outside I take Mushka for a walk, but she's afraid of these booms and constantly comes back. Only in the morning, when it is quiet at dawn, I can take her out."

Yulia sits in the gloom nearby, as Anna lists her friends who have already fled. "I miss them all," she says. "Arina might be in Poland, Masha in Western Ukraine. Diana went somewhere else. Everyone left."

But Yulia is staying put with her daughter. "Of course, I am worried," she tells me. "But I think it is more or less safe. At least we have everything here, everything is prepared. We think nowhere in Ukraine is safe and we have no means to go abroad."

Their basement shelter is well stocked with food and water, and they get regular deliveries from the White Angels, a unit of Ukrainian police who provide aid and carry out evacuations.

The team leader, Pavlo Dyachenko, lights up when he sees Anna. In the depths of war, they have forged a bond.

He has brought Anna a new sleeping bag to keep her warm, but he would rather be getting her and her family out of the line of fire.

"I don't understand why they are deciding to stay," he said. "Bakhmut is under attack in the evening, in the morning, in the night. It's very dangerous with bombing and shelling all the time."

More thuds above ground amplify his point.

The shelling usually intensifies as midday approaches - part of the rhythm of warfare in Bakhmut. After exhausting overnight battles, troops on both sides sleep late into the mornings, before getting back to their guns.

We race out of the city and onwards through rolling hills that offer a commanding view of the area.

"These heights are more important for the Russians than Bakhmut itself," said a Ukrainian colleague. "If they can bring their artillery here, they can target bigger cities like Kramatorsk and Slovyansk. "

Bakhmut holds, for now, but for how much longer.
 
Here is the LP/Rage's list of demands:
View attachment 4465908

They also issued a statement which includes these blurbs:
View attachment 4465928

Their position seems to be that Russia is wrong to invade but nothing should be done about it. It is the familiar debate over pacifism. There's a consistency to it even if most others regard it as naive (including me).

Still, libertarians talk as here about the initiation of force. They don't object to meeting force with force, in defense of self or others. So what's the principled objection to aiding a nation defending itself?
> We oppose Russia's invasion bla-bla-blah

But in what fucking way? It happened, what are you gonna do about it? What is your libertarian solution to warmongering expansionist states straight outta 20th century waging wars of conquest right now?
God I hate lolbertarians.
 
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