Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[BubblezMcGee]

Poor kid actually looks worse now than he did when he was younger. As he gets older and the skin grafts seem to tighten and constrict he looks more and more like a burn victim. The sounds he makes are pretty horrific as well. I think the mom thinks he's happy, but he seems like he's just a big sack of misery and suffering. His mom fought for him to live, but one has to wonder if she did that for him or for herself. All I know is when I look this boy, I can't help but be reminded of these words of wisdom from the late great Herman Munster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Gr3FsJ4A0&ab_channel=TomCoster

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

It depends on the fundie, honestly. Many, many pro-lifers/fundies who are vehemently opposed to abortion either don't know IVF discards embryos or they openly deny it. Push them enough and they'll say genetic screening is eugenic (yes, it is) and should not be allowed, while complaining they will have to foot the bill for such disabled children.

I find it unlikely that any IVF clinic wouldn't inform patients that not all embryos can be used. I'm basically certain that patients are required to sign a release indicating as much. I guess storing them in vapor phase LN2 indefinitely might be less objectionable to vehement pro-lifers, but that's expensive, too. Particularly with PGT, I cannot conceive (heh heh) of a scenario in which a patient weren't made aware that some embryos would inevitably be discarded.

This might be of interest. Anthony and Adeye Salem, a fundie couple from Colorado, are staunch advocates for "embryo adoption". Through a hilariously named program called "Snowflakes", they adopted four frozen embryos. At the time, they were explicit in their intention to select embryos with unfavorable preimplantation diagnostics, although I'm not sure how that worked out for them. Fortunately for us, Adeye, a white South African and devoted Titus 2 woman, is a mega attention whore who blasted every detail of the process all over the Internet. Fortunately for us, she's still got a blog, and if you're into learning more about the pretensions of a white upper-middle class nouveau riche child collectors, I think you'll enjoy it.

Interestingly, it seems like none of the four embryos the Salems adopted ended up surviving, although I haven't done a deep dive yet.

 

[David Glowie]

I find it unlikely that any IVF clinic wouldn't inform patients that not all embryos can be used. I'm basically certain that patients are required to sign a release indicating as much. I guess storing them in vapor phase LN2 indefinitely might be less objectionable to vehement pro-lifers, but that's expensive, too. Particularly with PGT, I cannot conceive (heh heh) of a scenario in which a patient weren't made aware that some embryos would inevitably be discarded.

Which is why I think that if Havyn's parents did want another child (which is a big if, they must be exhausted and heartbroken from dealing with Havyn's diagnosis) then they'd probably do IVF with PGT but be super discreet, just requesting "prayers for our family" until they got the all-clear.

 

[Android raptor]

I think cost of IVF is the main reason you don't see fundies doing it, plus spud moms ITT can't narcissistically exploit and puppeteer an actual sentient kid.

Sure, some prolifers will hand-wring about IVF as well (especially when prompted), but what they object to isn't so much the destruction of embryos as it is women (and female children) being able to safely opt out of pregnancy.

Shit, fundies have even insisted dead women be kept on life support because they were pregnant when they died, because apparently even death doesn't mean getting to end a pregnancy (that wasn't even viable anyway, at least not with that one TX case some years back).

 

[LonesomeDud]

I think cost of IVF is the main reason you don't see fundies doing it, plus spud moms ITT can't narcissistically exploit and puppeteer an actual sentient kid.

Sure, some prolifers will hand-wring about IVF as well (especially when prompted), but what they object to isn't so much the destruction of embryos as it is women (and female children) being able to safely opt out of pregnancy.

Shit, fundies have even insisted dead women be kept on life support because they were pregnant when they died, because apparently even death doesn't mean getting to end a pregnancy (that wasn't even viable anyway, at least not with that one TX case some years back).

Edit: Husband did not want wife on the vent post brain death. Obvious medical malpractice. It's still the doctor's fault, and whoever the attending is was wrong. I still feel like making everyone who doesn't think elective abortions for any reason are morally fantastic into the Boogeyman is wrong. The oath is to do no harm, not dictating how people think, for which I am tremendously thankful.

I think it's partially expense and a lot of people who really believe children are a blessing are better able to accept it's not a blessing they will receive. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but infertile women who accept their condition as just part of life without blame for themselves or others are made of tougher stuff than a lot of people.

You're a smart person with mostly good takes on stuff, but I don't think it's about controlling women and girls. I think a lot of it comes from misunderstanding what death is, what happens to those embryos that perish, etc. Same for the women declared braindead and kept alive. It is an annoying waste of resources and time to keep the machines running for a non-viable pregnancy, but it has to be something the patient preplans with their next of kin. You still can't predict everything, but it's better than creating a culture where we think nothing of throwing away someone just for being neurodivergent or disabled. Someone braindead doesn't need inclusion. They need to be treated with dignity while honoring their choices, even if we don't agree with them.

I don't think most people would favor continuing a pregnancy like the case with the woman you mentioned. Her husband just probably needed the time to grieve and say goodbye. It sucks that it costs money and heartache, but there's no way forward that doesn't hurt, and they're at peace now.

 

[Android raptor]

In that case the husband and the rest of her family were the ones who wanted the plug to be pulled in accordance with her wishes (both her and her husband worked in the medical field). The state of Texas and the hospital were the ones fighting to keep her corpse on life support

Unfortunately I don't think she'll be the last pregnant woman to have her corpse kept pointlessly on life support against her/her families wishes in a red state.

Not sure if prolifers playing Weekend At Bernie's with dead pregnant women is more or less horrifying than the Hollie Dances and Mama Nails of the world doing it with dead kid.

 

[David Glowie]

Not sure if prolifers playing Weekend At Bernie's with dead pregnant women is more or less horrifying than the Hollie Dances and Mama Nails of the world doing it with dead kid.

That case and the Mama Nails case both came up at around the same time. The contrast was horrible.

 

[Android raptor]

That case and the Mama Nails case both came up at around the same time. The contrast was horrible.

Damn yeah, didn't Jahi also die in late 2013? I'd almost forgotten its been that long ago now, especially since her corpse was kept on life support for so many years afterwards

Imagine what could've happened if Hollie was American and not subject to the NHS having authority to pull the plug on child corpse attention seeking/grifting shenanigans.

 

[LonesomeDud]

In that case the husband and the rest of her family were the ones who wanted the plug to be pulled in accordance with her wishes (both her and her husband worked in the medical field). The state of Texas and the hospital were the ones fighting to keep her corpse on life support

Unfortunately I don't think she'll be the last pregnant woman to have her corpse kept pointlessly on life support against her/her families wishes in a red state.

Not sure if prolifers playing Weekend At Bernie's with dead pregnant women is more or less horrifying than the Hollie Dances and Mama Nails of the world doing it with dead kid.

Wasn't familiar with that case, but there was a fetus who died shortly after birth, wanted by the father, mother braindead. I think it was human error that made them overlook that baby was also deprived of o2 for an hour. I am grateful his son is okay and had his dad, but all around a terrible case.

Someone made a terrible mistake. The hospital granted them that authority. Unfortunately, they have to pay for that mistake.

 

[booklover]

I think cost of IVF is the main reason you don't see fundies doing it, plus spud moms ITT can't narcissistically exploit and puppeteer an actual sentient kid.

Sure, some prolifers will hand-wring about IVF as well (especially when prompted), but what they object to isn't so much the destruction of embryos as it is women (and female children) being able to safely opt out of pregnancy.

Shit, fundies have even insisted dead women be kept on life support because they were pregnant when they died, because apparently even death doesn't mean getting to end a pregnancy (that wasn't even viable anyway, at least not with that one TX case some years back).

I remember that case. IIRC, the woman was about 4 months pregnant and in a car accident that left her brain-dead, and everyone agreed that she could not be kept "alive" long enough to bring the baby to viability, but hospitals officials insisted anyway ($$$$$, perhaps?). Her condition deteriorated at some point and the doctors FINALLY agreed that it was time to end it, and then they found out that the baby had birth defects incompatible with life, and already did when the accident happened. A tragedy all around.

 

[Android raptor]

Bodily autonomy issues aside, I would assume that unless a braindead pregnant woman was pretty far along when she died AND not without oxygen/etc long enough to Luna-fy the fetus, there would be no way keeping a pregnant woman's corpse on life support could end in a living, healthy baby. Pregnacy/fetal development is just too complicated and easy to fuck up, as this thread has shown. I can't imagine shit like all those glands in the brain that produce important hormones not being involved in gestation.

 

[Oracular Slug]

Bodily autonomy issues aside, I would assume that unless a braindead pregnant woman was pretty far along when she died AND not without oxygen/etc long enough to Luna-fy the fetus, there would be no way keeping a pregnant woman's corpse on life support could end in a living, healthy baby. Pregnacy/fetal development is just too complicated and easy to fuck up, as this thread has shown. I can't imagine shit like all those glands in the brain that produce important hormones not being involved in gestation.

It’s (supposedly) happened at least once — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Nonnatus

 

[Android raptor]

It’s (supposedly) happened at least once — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Nonnatus

That wasn't a case of a braindead woman whose body was being kept alive on modern life support to gestate an underdeveloped fetus though, that was a woman who died giving birth and sounds like was cut open pretty shortly afterwards.

Still pretty miraculous he survived given this all went down pre-modern medicine, especially given the infant mortality rate at the time.

 

[booklover]

It’s (supposedly) happened at least once — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Nonnatus

Until general anesthesia made cesarean section a feasible procedure on a living woman, this was actually not an uncommon procedure, although far too often, the baby didn't make it either, usually because it was already gone when the doctor arrived.

There have been several well-known cases of pregnant women being kept on life support until the baby was mature enough to be delivered; this story actually made worldwide headlines, and this was the first I saw of her stroke being the result of undiagnosed cancer! I never knew that they found out the real reason, and it also sounds like its spread was the reason the baby was delivered as early as she was. I also remember when the baby died a few weeks later.

Susan Torres - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Android raptor]

It sounds like in that case since they were both devout Catholics, that her wishes would've been to be kept plugged in in case of any chance of gestating the fetus into a living baby. Sounds like it almost worked too, but the baby was sadly still to frail to make it.

Pretty interesting case, and unlike the other one sounds like her wishes were to be kept on life support.

 

[Oracular Slug]

That wasn't a case of a braindead woman whose body was being kept alive on modern life support to gestate an underdeveloped fetus though, that was a woman who died giving birth and sounds like was cut open pretty shortly afterwards.

Still pretty miraculous he survived given this all went down pre-modern medicine, especially given the infant mortality rate at the time.

Fair enough.

Until general anesthesia made cesarean section a feasible procedure on a living woman, this was actually not an uncommon procedure, although far too often, the baby didn't make it either, usually because it was already gone when the doctor arrived.

There have been several well-known cases of pregnant women being kept on life support until the baby was mature enough to be delivered; this story actually made worldwide headlines, and this was the first I saw of her stroke being the result of undiagnosed cancer! I never knew that they found out the real reason, and it also sounds like its spread was the reason the baby was delivered as early as she was. I also remember when the baby died a few weeks later.

Susan Torres - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I knew there was a modern case but couldn’t find it, thank you!

 

[booklover]

It sounds like in that case since they were both devout Catholics, that her wishes would've been to be kept plugged in in case of any chance of gestating the fetus into a living baby. Sounds like it almost worked too, but the baby was sadly still to frail to make it.

Pretty interesting case, and unlike the other one sounds like her wishes were to be kept on life support.

If you're talking about Susan Torres, I'm guessing that it wasn't so much their faith, as that the baby just plain old had a chance at survival.

 

[Android raptor]

If you're talking about Susan Torres, I'm guessing that it wasn't so much their faith, as that the baby just plain old had a chance at survival.

Yeah it sounds like she was a little further along than the Texas case. In the TX case the fetus was apparently so deformed in the lower extremities that they couldn't even determine the sex on ultrasound.

 

[Florch]

Unfortunately I don't think she'll be the last pregnant woman to have her corpse kept pointlessly on life support against her/her families wishes in a red state.

A child growing up with zero (literal) warm maternal attachment and finding out they were gestated by a corpse is certain to have some interesting..manifestations down the track I'd imagine.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

gestated by a corpse

That sounds like the title to a death metal or goregrind song.