Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

[Fait Accompli]

The point is the US military today is not the force is was during the Gulf War. The US does not have the inventory to pull off another desert storm.

If you really want to compare Air Forces, here is a fun comparison of combat types, ie. bombers, attack, fighters and multirole

PLAAF = 2606
PLANAF = 361
Total Chinese combat aircraft in active service = 2967

USAF = 2337
USN = 592
USMC = 268
Total American combat aircraft in active service = 3197

Did u forget about quality vs quantity?

Sure, sometimes quantity can beat quality. But China and the others dont even have the quantity


Comparing total amounts of military assets can be misleading as there are many more variables

 

[Rei is Shit.]

The bigger, unspoken issue is the amount of aircraft relegated to SEAD duties. I think in Gulf war I and Yugoslavia it was 45-50%+ of all combat missions.
In a near-peer adversary conflict (because Yugoslavia and Iraq are not even close to "peers") like Russia-Ukraine, there's absolutely no fucking way that number doesn't jump even higher. Now you stress everyone out because you've got to run CAP+SEAD at higher rates.

Of course, this is assuming the PLA isn't completely retarded, they may very well be.

iirc is was actually higher in the gulf, somewhere over 60%. They actually had to do a lot more SEAD than initially planned, to the point where bombing missions were being cancelled/deferred.

 

[Kiwi Sneed Snake]

I mean iraq 1991 was no slouch, we kicked their ass pretty hard. Even if Ukraine was given the best equipment in the world (they aren't), Russia should have won this war by now if they were as powerful as everyone's hyped them up to be. What kind of country can't even get uncontested air control. Certainly not anyone with an actual army should be afraid of.

Iraq was fucked in 1991 what are you on about, have you never heard of the Iraq-Iran war (brutal by the way) lasted from 1980-1988 and cost 100,000's of lives on both sides (some estimates at over 500,000 combined).

Iraq had just 3 years to recover before the US flattened them on top of having used up there best troops and equipment holding back the Iranians for 8 years. That's one major reason America walked all over them.

In contrast Ukraine had like 8 years to prepare for war....

 

[Foltest]

Did u forget about quality vs quantity?

Sure, sometimes quantity can beat quality. But China and the others dont even have the quantity

Also need to take into account that USA have decades of experience.
When was the last time that Chinese air force was in a combat zone (hell, when was the last time Chinese military was in a war situationen)?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

That's not actually true at all. US aircraft suffered massively during the Vietnam war, the perils of heliborne and close in CAS operations.

List of aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Over 11,000 aircraft is not an insignificant amount to loss (nearly half of all helicopters in theatre).
They hardly ran out of "all the good shit" almost instantly, they shot down US planes like fly's for basically 6 years and these are America's numbers on losses....

Also the North Vietnamese air force had an incredible amount of air aces, those mig21's got really fed up of shooting down F4's and F105's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War

As much as people like to ape on the Russian air force they certainly haven't lost that many planes in Ukraine even if the war theoretically went on for 6 years, and remember the only plane to shoot down an F18 was an old Mig 25 Foxbat (lovely looking plane).

Iraqi MiG-25 Foxbat Pilot explains how he was able to shoot down Lt Cdr Speicher’s F/A-18 Hornet the first night of Operation Desert Storm - The Aviation Geek Club

Iraqi MiG-25 Foxbat Pilot explains how he was able to shoot down Lt Cdr Speicher’s F/A-18 Hornet the first night of Operation Desert Storm

theaviationgeekclub.com

Sorry for using wiki as the reference it was just the fastest source but many other places cover the info.
Do some research on past wars before spouting misinformation for those not in the know.

If we're talking about planes, I have to remind everyone Yemeni sandniggers in mandresses and sandals using old Soviet era weaponry took down a Moroccan F-16 in 2015 and a Jordanian F-16 in 2017, so Z-man thinking they'd make a difference is baffling.

Did u forget about quality vs quantity?

Sure, sometimes quantity can beat quality. But China and the others dont even have the quantity

I guess you never heard of the axiom "Quantity has a quality all its own"

 

[Fait Accompli]

If we're talking about planes, I have to remind everyone Yemeni sandniggers in mandresses and sandals using old Soviet era weaponry took down a Moroccan F-16 in 2015 and a Jordanian F-16 in 2017, so Z-man thinking they'd make a difference is baffling.

I guess you never heard of the axiom "Quantity has a quality all its own"

Uhh....yes i have? Did u read it right? I literally said that sometimes quantity can beat quality, but then you need a major quantity compared to the enemy. China/Russia doesnt even have the quantity, so there's nothing to gain there

Quantity can beat quality = quantity can be a quality

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

iirc is was actually higher in the gulf, somewhere over 60%. They actually had to do a lot more SEAD than initially planned, to the point where bombing missions were being cancelled/deferred.

It's gonna be a repeat of dragoons in WW1 charging into well armed, well fortified trenches (or running into tanks in an chance encounter). That's gonna be a massacre for an airforce. Can you imagine running CAP duty on top of that? There won't be any fire support from jets short of the occasional missile toss.

 

[Fatniggo1488]

Also need to take into account that USA have decades of experience.
When was the last time that Chinese air force was in a combat zone (hell, when was the last time Chinese military was in a war situationen)?

Nigger, the US has the highest attrition rate of damn near any military in the world. It's already becoming common to see cherry E7s walking around in infantry units and the Afghan war hasn't even been over that long.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Uhh....yes i have? Did u read it right? I literally said that sometimes quantity can beat quality, but then you need a major quantity compared to the enemy. China/Russia doesnt even have the quantity, so there's nothing to gain there

Quantity can beat quality = quantity can be a quality

What is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, Alex?

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

The bigger, unspoken issue is the amount of aircraft relegated to SEAD duties. I think in Gulf war I and Yugoslavia it was 45-50%+ of all combat missions.
In a near-peer adversary conflict (because Yugoslavia and Iraq are not even close to "peers") like Russia-Ukraine, there's absolutely no fucking way that number doesn't jump even higher. Now you stress everyone out because you've got to run CAP+SEAD at higher rates.

Of course, this is assuming the PLA isn't completely retarded, they may very well be.

This is sad to read. If fighter planes are so useless then why do we keep investing so muchmoney in them, especially with the f35? The thing I want to see most in this war is footage of a modern dogfight. Just like 10 or 20 jets from both sides going at it like project wingman or ace combat

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

When was the last time that Chinese air force was in a combat zone (hell, when was the last time Chinese military was in a war situationen)?

Laoshan incident in 1984 was the last major land action. Johnson reef skirmish is the last major naval action in 1988.
2020 Sino-Indian shitshow could technically count as a battle, albiet one with melee weapons instead of firearms. The logistics are much harder on the Chinese side than the Indian.

This is sad to read. If fighter planes are so useless then why do we keep investing so muchmoney in them, especially with the f35? The thing I want to see most in this war is footage of a modern dogfight. Just like 10 or 20 jets from both sides going at it like project wingman or ace combat

Dogfights are unlikely since missile tech has improved quite a bit. But fighter jets are still useful because you can't move AA around easily versus a flying plane.
F-35 is basically designed to share radar, launch missiles and run away. J-20 is basically designed to "push out" the USN via slinging missiles (either AAM or ASM) far outside of traditional land based AA and running away like a little bitch. Which is a bit fucking odd because there's these two fucking Islands called Japan and Formosa in the way.
Now, heavy CAS might be outdated in a near-peer conflict (the SU-25 and A-10 will just get absolutely deleted if there's any competent IADS around).

 

[Fait Accompli]

What is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, Alex?

View attachment 4470879

Whats your point? I have no idea what you want to say by linking a battle from the Korean War when talking about this war.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

This is sad to read. If fighter planes are so useless then why do we keep investing so muchmoney in them, especially with the f35? The thing I want to see most in this war is footage of a modern dogfight. Just like 10 or 20 jets from both sides going at it like project wingman or ace combat

You will never see this. Modern fighter combat is entirely based on "who has the better electronics suite" and who can launch their missiles first, and whether or not the other guy has good enough countermeasures to avoid that.

 

[JosephStalin]

An interesting article from Foreign Affairs.

What Russia Got Wrong

Can Moscow learn from its failures in Ukraine?

www.foreignaffairs.com

What Russia Got Wrong: Can Moscow Learn From Its Failures in Ukraine?

archived 8 Feb 2023 11:52:21 UTC

archive.vn

Check out the "1420" videos on YouTube. People on the street, in Moscow, other cities, and out in the country are asked questions about the war and related matters. While many say they support Putin and the war, and many others refuse to say anything out of fear, there are those, both old and young, who oppose the war. The videos come out every few days. Have watched most of these videos. Am struck by the sharp contrast between Moscow/St. Petersburg/other cities and the rural areas. Sad to see people having to get their water by the bucket from a communal well, for example.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

You will never see this. Modern fighter combat is entirely based on "who has the better electronics suite" and who can launch their missiles first, and whether or not the other guy has good enough countermeasures to avoid that.

Don't forget who basically can pump out more semis. Missile seekers need a bunch of Digital-to-analogue converters for processing information.

 

[Rainbow Child]

Senior US Investigative Reporter, Seymore Hirsch, has CONFIRMED that the United States' deep sea diving team was responsible for the NORDSTREAM2 sabotage attack, with Norwegian assistance.

Hirsch made his name during the Vietnam War as the journalist who uncovered the "My Lai Massacre". Since that time, he has been a very respected journalist, although a thorn in the side of the permanent government structures of the USA. He released the results of his investigation of the Nordstream Pipeline Sabotage today on his substack.

Already, NATO troll farms have mobilised to edit his Wikipedia page, to delete any discussion of the article on Reddit, and to derail the comments sections where this story has been successfully shared.

Evidently, the motive of the terrorist attack was to ensure that Germany would have no qualms, hesitations, or scruples, when the time would come to send weapons and/or soldiers to the Ukraine to fight Russia, who supplied Germany with gas via the now sabotaged pipeline. One of Hirsch's sources informed him that the reason that Biden and others had made veiled threats against the pipeline last summer was to reclassify the operation down one level of secrecy, to bypass Congressional oversight, which would have been legally required had the attack not been forewarned.

United States culpability had been suspected already. But Hirsch's investigation confirms those suspicions.

Link to Substack Article

 

[Random Internet Person]

I'm amazed at how many people in this thread are uncritically regurgitating obvious propaganda. I figured a website like this one which has suffered massive amounts of lies and disinformation in the media would have conditioned its users to be a little bit more skeptical.

Here’s the thing: people in the Thunderdome have a lot of enemies in high places, and to them, any entity that can punch them in the teeth (which may be something they want to do or wish to happen any day now) or just laugh at the motherfuckers in power, or announce that the emperor has no clothes, is seen as someone to support in their eyes if not a freaking hero.

And then you have folks who become contrarians to piss them off. East troll job.

There's a reason rest of the website resents Autistic Thunderdome - it invites the worst sort of user Internet has to offer and make them feel like they own the place.

And what kind of user is that?

Did u forget about quality vs quantity?

Sure, sometimes quantity can beat quality. But China and the others dont even have the quantity


Comparing total amounts of military assets can be misleading as there are many more variables

Uhh....yes i have? Did u read it right? I literally said that sometimes quantity can beat quality, but then you need a major quantity compared to the enemy. China/Russia doesnt even have the quantity, so there's nothing to gain there

Quantity can beat quality = quantity can be a quality

I know one thing that China and Russia are said to have: manly recruitment ads.

 

[Fait Accompli]

I know one thing that China and Russia are said to have: manly recruitment ads.

I honestly dont know what i hate most, overly manly recruitment ads that look like cringy action movies or the woke ones.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Whats your point? I have no idea what you want to say by linking a battle from the Korean War when talking about this war.

What's my point? The US, with commanders fresh out of WW2 and the bestest and greatest weaponry of the time, were barely able cope with a bunch of chinks zerg rushing them, and some of the most harrowing and gut wrenching stories to come out of any US war took place in the retreat from the Yalu.

Result: partition of Korea along the 38th parallel, a DMZ that's the most militarized in the entire world, commies not BTFO and an armistice, meaning the conflict is still ongoing.

But "USA! USA! USA!" right?

 

[Fait Accompli]

What's my point? The US, with commanders fresh out of WW2 and the bestest and greatest weaponry of the time, were barely able cope with a bunch of chinks zerg rushing them, and some of the most harrowing and gut wrenching stories to come out of any US war took place in the retreat from the Yalu.

Result: partition of Korea along the 38th parallel, a DMZ that's the most militarized in the entire world, commies not BTFO and an armistice, meaning the conflict is still ongoing.

But "USA! USA! USA!" right?

Didnt the US enter that war with a severely diminshed military budget? To recover after WW2

Also, the UN ( US, lol ) were fighting a war half way across the world, crushed the North Koreans but were then beaten back my a human wave of Chinese operating from their mainland infrastructure, while the US relied on poor infrastructure and were deep in the mountains. I just dont get how this is relevant to my point, that was 70 years ago. I was talking about naval, aerial and modern quality vs quantity. Not a scenario where the US actually invades China and fights against hordes of chinks

Come up with something else

USA USA USA