Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[mindlessobserver]

Getting back on topic, I don't see how Ukraine is going to hold Bakhmut. Not unless they can counter attack the Russian thrust towards Chasiv Yar. It's getting down to the decision point. Might be quite literally 2 weeks at this point, after half a year.

 

[No. 7 cat]

ABORT MISSION REPEAT ABORT

Recall the World Cup Final where the white Argentine team played against the West African French team. Euro or Euro founded (ie Murrica or Canuckistan) countries in the northern hemisphere apparently aren't allowed to reject anchor babies scammers. Based Argies. May they drink many good cups of maté.

Spoiler: Pavel Fuks does stuff

Businessman Pavel Fuks donated more than $8 million in 2022​

5 min read

Since the beginning of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, businessman and philanthropist Pavel Fuks has been providing support to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Territorial Defense, the National Guard of Ukraine, the Main Directorate of Intelligence and the families of the dead and injured Ukrainian soldiers, as well as Kharkiv residents and residents of the region who need humanitarian assistance.
At the end of 2022, the total amount of funds allocated for assistance exceeded $8 million.
Starting from October, with the support of Pavel Fuks, distribution points for homemade food were located in Kharkiv, Izyum, Balakliya, Kupyansk and other cities of the Kharkiv region, as well as in frontline zones and de-occupied areas. Humanitarian actions to distribute food to everyone who needs it are held daily.
At the same time, the soldiers of the special forces units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who are at the front line, received copters from businessman Pavel Fuks to carry out combat missions. The businessman also supplies soldiers with clothes, armored vehicles, etc. In particular, a special squad of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense received an armored minibus.
In addition, thanks to the assistance of businessman Pavel Fuks the Kharkiv garrison of the Main Directorate of the State Emergency Service of Ukraine in the Kharkiv region received two new fire and rescue vehicles based on the Renault K440 6X6.
Also, businessman Fuks bought modern fire helmets, protective masks and special footwear Michelin for Kharkiv firefighters.
By order of the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksiy Reznikov, Pavel Fuks was awarded the insignia of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine – medal “For Assistance to the Armed Forces of Ukraine”.
For a significant personal contribution to providing comprehensive assistance to the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and active volunteering under martial law, by order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, Pavel Fuks was awarded the badge of honor “For Assistance to the Army”.
For providing logistical assistance to intelligence units and cooperation with the National Guard of Ukraine, Pavel Fuks was awarded the gratitude of the Commander of the National Guard of Ukraine, Lieutenant-General Yuriy Lebid.
The commander of the 92nd separate mechanized brigade named after ataman Ivan Sirko Pavlo Fedosenko expressed gratitude to Pavel Fuks for helping the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as well as for true patriotism and responsibility for the future of Ukraine.
For cooperation in providing assistance to the Ukrainian army and for an active civic position in the struggle for the independence of Ukraine, Pavel Fuks received gratitude from the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Kyrylo Budanov.
From the head of the Special Operations Center “A” of the Security Service of Ukraine, Serhiy Dusyk, Pavel Fuks also received a diploma with honors for his active position in protecting the independence, state sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, as well as for counteracting open armed aggression against Ukraine.
The commander of a separate detachment “Omega” of the National Guard of Ukraine awarded Pavel Fuks with a distinction “For cooperation and patriotism”.
Fuks also received an award from the commander of the 24th separate mechanized brigade named after King Danylo – Roman Mamavko – for cooperation, significant assistance to military personnel and for his personal contribution to repelling and deterring the aggressor.
For humanitarian assistance for special police units “KORD” and assistance in ensuring the territorial integrity of Ukraine during martial law, as well as for the provision of material and technical assistance to intelligence units and fruitful cooperation with the National Guard of Ukraine, Pavel Fuks was awarded gratitude from the head of the Department “KORD” Mykola Putiy.
Pavel Fuks was awarded an honorary badge by the Commander of the Operational Command “West” Sergiy Litvinov.
For active social work, volunteer initiative and logistical support for the military personnel of the 3rd Operational Brigade named after Petro Bolbachan of the National Guard of Ukraine, as well as for assistance in the struggle for the protection of the state sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine Pavel Fuks received gratitude from the commander of the military unit 3017 of the National Guard of Ukraine Olexandr Pivnenko.
For organizing and providing comprehensive volunteer assistance to units of the territorial defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, an active life position, patriotism and a significant contribution to achieving victory over the Russian invaders the head of the Regional Directorate of the Territorial Defense Forces “Vostok” Olexandr Zugrava awarded Pavel Fuks with a badge and a diploma.
In May 2022, Forbes Ukraine reported that businessman and philanthropist Pavel Fuks sent about $5 million to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Territorial Defense Forces, the National Guard of Ukraine and to help the families of the dead and injured Ukrainian soldiers.
Earlier, Pavel Fuks bought two X-ray diagnostic complexes for doctors in Kharkiv for UAH 13.4 million and donated UAH 2.7 million to the families of officers and cadets of the Kharkiv National Air Force University named after Ivan Kozhedub, who died in a plane crash near Chuguiv, Kharkiv region.
Reference. Pavel Fuks is a businessman and philanthropist, Ukrainian by nationality, was born in Kharkiv, a citizen of Ukraine. His charitable projects cover the areas of social assistance, medicine, education, religious life and culture.
Pavel Fuks is one of the initiators and co-founders of the Memorial Center, who on September 29, 2016 made a public commitment to build a Memorial at Babi Yar. In total, he donated about $6 million to the construction of the Memorial.
Thanks to the efforts of Pavel Fuks, the Church of the Holy Blessed Queen Tamara was built in Kharkiv. He gave funds for the reconstruction of school No. 4 in Kharkiv, where he studied, and participated in the restoration of the Kharkiv Regional Philharmonic.
He also financed the installation of a monument to the Founders of Kharkiv and the Monument of Independence of Ukraine.

Interfax UA Fuks

Former USAF missileer now largely blogs on this war, only rarely posting on mil finance. Some scorn him but he gets good interviewees about whom I'd have known less about as I don't ever want to use Linkedin ever again. Basically on RF losses around Vuhledar:

 

[AgendaPoster]

Ladies, I think we solved the mystery of Soloviev's absolute madlad unhinged rants about bombing London and crushing homosexuality in the satanic West.
Enjoy!

 

[Jewthulhu]

These are not the same. Russia is an autocratic government with Putin at the top basically making all the calls, so Russia's reasons are his reasons. NATO is a coalition of countries with individual actors having their own motives and interests, and furthermore as democratic countries their leaders to some extent reflect the will of the people who elected them. It is tricky saying what "NATO" does and does not care about since it is not an individual. But there's every reason to believe that Joe Biden, Emmanuel Macron, and so on do care about culture war issues and so on.

European leaders frequently give speeches about protecting democracy in Ukraine, and you'd have to be quite cynical to believe it's all an act, but even if it is, it's meant to convince their constituents they are answerable to who do care, so it's still reasonable to say that "NATO" as a collection of countries does care about democracy. This doesn't mean of course that they don't also have geostrategic and self-interested motives.

I had a longer reply but I don't want to derail the thread too much (just in case this actually becomes a reasonable thread). I'll just sum up my point like this: you don't declare open hostilities, invest your economy, national security, and population against a country just because you don't like their ideology. You do so because they represent a threat to your country's security in some way, shape, or form. Case in point: Saudi Arabia. In many ways, they're much, much less liberal than Russia (absolute monarchy, corrupt as hell, life sentence for being a faggot or woman), but because they're not a hostile nation and represent a key strategic ally, we're best buddies with them, to the point of aiding in or even fighting their wars for them.

 

[mindlessobserver]

I had a longer reply but I don't want to derail the thread too much (just in case this actually becomes a reasonable thread). I'll just sum up my point like this: you don't declare open hostilities, invest your economy, national security, and population against a country just because you don't like their ideology. You do so because they represent a threat to your country's security in some way, shape, or form. Case in point: Saudi Arabia. In many ways, they're much, much less liberal than Russia (absolute monarchy, corrupt as hell, life sentence for being a faggot or woman), but because they're not a hostile nation and represent a key strategic ally, we're best buddies with them, to the point of aiding in or even fighting their wars for them.

Ideology only goes so far though. It's a useful tool in justifying conflict but it is very rarely the cause. Putin tells his people the war is about standing up for traditional Russian values against a degenerate west and the perfidous Americans. At its core though this has always been about a combination of Putin wanting to maintain control of the Port at Sevastopol, and secondarily reasserting the old Imperial borders of Russia as way to halt what he's sees as the countries precipitous decline.

In either scenario however Russia has to be the aggressor. So ideology is useful in making excuses, by Implying that really it was Russia who was attacked, because the West "Broke promises, is degenerate, wants to see Russia broken, etc". Take your pick. The actual truth is not relevant.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Getting back on topic, I don't see how Ukraine is going to hold Bakhmut.

Bakhmut is hold only due to ruzzkie idiotic style of warfare - they are no need to leave this town when ruzzia is still smashing wave after wave of mobiks of it. Place good as many others to waste ruzzia assets, so why they should retreat? Only to fight in next town?

At its core though this has always been about a combination of Putin wanting to maintain control of the Port at Sevastopol, and secondarily reasserting the old Imperial borders of Russia as way to halt what he's sees as the countries precipitous decline.

They had same issues like Hitler (nazi! naaazzi!) in summer '39 - ruzzia was going into economic troubles and a small but successful war will help to solve them.

In both cases leader wasn't such smart as he used to think he is. If they didn't find a huge as nigga dong gold deposits on Ukraine they will not even repay for already confiscated assets in EU.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Inb4 some Russian TV talking head starts saying Argentina is full of Russophobic Nazis and talking about how they could totally wipe out Buenos Aires with a nuke

They'd be silly to believe it. All the nazis landed in Argentina, but they all moved to Paraguay right after. Lots of curiously wealthy Germans in Paraguay.

Getting back on topic, I don't see how Ukraine is going to hold Bakhmut. Not unless they can counter attack the Russian thrust towards Chasiv Yar. It's getting down to the decision point. Might be quite literally 2 weeks at this point, after half a year.

That's half a year Russia has spent throwing bodies at one small city, rather than pushing literally any other front. They're obsessed with it, which is why Ukraine has been defending it so fiercely; as long a Russia is hyperfocused on Bakhmut, they're not making more rational decisions.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Half of Russia's tanks have gone kaput:

LOL "endless Russian tank fleet" my ass. One year into the war, and half their tanks are gone.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

All the nazis landed in Argentina, but they all moved to Paraguay right after.

Gypsy nazis, they are going around the world spreading nazi virus. Nazis in Argentina, nazis in Paraguay, nazis in Israel, moon nazis, every season nazis. A nazi for every outfit. Teddy nazi, doggy nazi, nazi in commie party even if we need.

Years ago, after RCW every enemy was called by commies "white" - they was white ruzzians, white Poles, white Ukrainians and even white niggas.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Half of Russia's tanks have gone kaput:

LOL "endless Russian tank fleet" my ass. One year into the war, and half their tanks are gone.

One also has to wonder what condition the other half is in.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Saudi Arabia. In many ways, they're much, much less liberal than Russia (absolute monarchy, corrupt as hell, life sentence for being a faggot or woman), but because they're not a hostile nation

Saudi Arabia, architects of 9/11, a non-hostile country.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[YumeNoHero]

What? Now I have to have 2 open tabs for 2 autism containment threads?
Oh the humanity!

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

less than 40 miles from territory they already had de-facto control of when the war began

Bakhmut is fuckin' suburb of Donetsk. It is like battle of Hoboken when attackers have starting position in NYC.

And how much territory they are losing.

From several months they lost nearly nothing.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I support NATOs original mission as a guarding force against communist stupidity not this expansionist shit into mono-hegemony.

You're acting as if the modern Russian state isn't just the USSR 2.0. Newsflash: it is just the USSR 2.0. They even showed us that it is:

They're even friends with Communist China, which goes to show that they haven't left the Commie-sphere at all.

No worries, Lord Vader.
We will have a second Nurnberg Trials, and we will have the Mossad hunt down Putin's underlings wherever they will try to hide.
"regime change" will be the least of their worries

I look forward to it. Although I surmise it'll be the CIA, not Mossad, which will spearhead the hunt against Putin's men.

It only took Russia 7 months to start to maybe be in a position to take Bakhmut.
That's over 5x the length of time it took the US to capture the entire country of Iraq.
For one town, less than 90 miles away from their own border and less than 40 miles from territory they already had de-facto control of when the war began.

But please, tell me how the rest of Ukrainian positions will magically up and vanish now that Bakhmut might be evacuated, maybe.

It goes to show that for all their chest-thumping about being America's military rival, they can't even come close to America's kneecaps. America took over Iraq despite it being on the other side of the world. Russia can't even vanquish a smaller neighbor.

I don’t pretend like most to know how this war will go. Maybe Russia will be reduced all the way to Siberia maybe Russia will be all the way to Berlin I don’t know I only speculate on the numbers. Like how many Ukies have fled. Especially men of fighting age. Especially how few weapons have made it to the front. And how much territory they are losing.

You can say the same thing about Russia and men. Lots of people fled to avoid the draft. And the Ukies haven't lost much turf as they did during the opening of the war when Russia still had the element of surprise and veteran forces. Now, all they have are aging tanks and scraped-up recruits.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Jannies are pretty quick today in action, all Haydamaks should be aware.

Although I surmise it'll be the CIA, not Mossad, which will spearhead the hunt against Putin's men.

I think they will be dead before war ends. Probably from own mens.

Maybye even it will be hammertime.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Jannies are pretty quick today in action, all Haydamaks should be aware.


I think they will be dead before war ends. Probably from own mens.

Maybye even it will be hammertime.

Hundreds of posts are burning in the eternal fires of the Shoah. I can hear the ovens screaming in agony from the load.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Hundreds of posts are burning in the eternal fires of the Shoah. I can hear the ovens screaming in agony from the load.

It's reverse integration. We are being tard wrangled into our ghettos as we speak!

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

It goes to show that for all their chest-thumping about being America's military rival, they can't even come close to America's kneecaps. America took over Iraq despite it being on the other side of the world. Russia can't even vanquish a smaller neighbor.

Its Schrödinger's Power:
Simultaneously the second (or first) strongest military in the world, a rival that even the US fears, capable of projecting unstoppable power all across the globe; but also just a modest Slavic backwater state fighting a border war against a peer military.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Its Schrödinger's Power:
Simultaneously the second (or first) strongest military in the world, a rival that even the US fears, capable of projecting unstoppable power all across the globe; but also just a modest Slavic backwater state fighting a border war against a peer military.

People seem to forget you need different equipment to be a global military vs a regional military. You could have all the armored vehicles, artillery, and ammo in the world, but if you don't have plenty of military cargo/transport/mid-air refueling aircraft and the combat aircraft to escort them, and for overseas conflicts, plenty of military transport ships and the warships to escort them, you're still only gonna be a regional power because your logistics are now entirely limited to truck covoys and trains.

 

[GatorAids]

It's very nice and inclusive of the OP to include people like me who just like seeing gopniks violently die. Truly we're headed in a more tolerant and peaceful direction as a website. Soon all the old bigotry against sadistic racists like myself will be washed away in a tsunami of tolerance .

In all seriousness, good change, thanks der ewige feeder.

There's only one way to lasting peace in the region, and it starts with Russia leaving Ukraine alone and going back home.

Where's the imagination in that? I say we give the Mongolians Davy Crockett nuke launchers and some Harleys (or Indians if they wanna be fancy) and tell them to have a fun time reclaiming their stolen land for the great Khan. Moscow can become like one of those city sized Bass Pro Shops but for Mongolian BBQ instead of fishing poles.