Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Mongolia? Why not recognise Chechnya, Tatarstan, Yakutia, Dagestan etc as sovereign states and honor their right to national sovereignty?
Ask the people of these republics first, lol. With an exception of Tatarstan, these territories won't be able to sustain themselves (and Tatarstan is encircled anyway) and benefit greatly from federal funding. If anything, their secession will make Russia stronger.
It's also hilariously inaccurate to call Dagestani a nation (in reality they are dozens of tribes, often hating each other, cramped into a single autonomous republic by Bolsheviks).
 
That's the thing that horrified me the most when I learned that not only do they have mines deployable by artillery shell, but that it's literally standard doctrine in the Russian army to line the flanks of an advance with such a thing.
Speaking of, this is the aftermath of the Russians getting gotten by these things near Vulhedar:
m718_usafas.jpgfig13-19.gif
 
Speaking of, this is the aftermath of the Russians getting gotten by these things near Vulhedar:
View attachment 4529830View attachment 4529829
Apparently the Russians tried several more times to cross all that open terrain to Vulhedar with the same results. Maybe not quite as spectacular, but still rather shocking how willing Russia is to throw good men and equipment after dead and destroyed ones.
 
Apparently the Russians tried several more times to cross all that open terrain to Vulhedar with the same results. Maybe not quite as spectacular, but still rather shocking how willing Russia is to throw good men and equipment after dead and destroyed ones.
Fucking lunatic tactics. Just send moar people. Moar vehicles. Explode enough mines, maybe after a month you'll make it across the field and claim the city, give the widows some fur coats, and call it day in service of Glorious Russia. Then go on TV and cry about Russophobia and demand answers about "how come people dislike us?!?".
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Prigozhin has been in the news claiming the Bakhmut situation is not that rosy and it'll take a while to get the city. He's also trolling the idiotic Westoid press with the election interference/troll farm stuff funding, again. These journos don't understand that they should approach everything he is saying as a potential lie, an attempt to discredit the West and mock it as retarded. The Bakhmut claims could be that too.
And there are reports of Ukraine trying to get the civilians out, whatever is left of them in Bakhmut. Some speculation it might mean the start of a retreat.
No idea what policy there's still on sources, it's largely from CNN. I'll just post screenshots, I know people prefer a bit of fast info to clicking.
Screenshot 2023-02-14 193224.pngScreenshot 2023-02-14 193252.pngScreenshot 2023-02-14 193003.png
Moscow Times article on the troll farms:
Screenshot 2023-02-14 195304.png
 
More Russian losses in their armor divisions:


"Graphic drone footage appears to show dozens of Russian armored vehicles getting ambushed and destroyed during a single botched attack near the coal-mining town of Vuhledar in eastern Ukraine, which Moscow’s forces have been trying to capture for months.

Vuhledar, a Ukrainian stronghold at the strategic intersection between the eastern and southern front lines, has seen some of the bloodiest fighting of the war as the Kremlin is gearing up for a decisive offensive on the eastern front.

Based on the newly released video evidence, a column of dozens of tanks and armored vehicles was lost or damaged last week, with a large number of troops apparently killed.

Russian soldiers are seen in aerial footage fleeing for their lives under sustained aerial bombardment by the Ukrainians.

In the chaos, Russian tanks are seen mowing down their own men."

Do we expect anything new from them?
 
>so many containment threads for tardfights and two hugboxes for the pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian side
>no thread for the enlightened radical centrist option

It's not easy being a griller.
Griller threads just turn into a shitflinging competition between the two groups of entrenched radicals.
 
Yet again, this thread is for
FRIENDS OF UKRAINE
Stop infiltrating, spergs. Prove to us that you can be civilized and respect the Rule Based Forum Order and International Forum Law.
You will get these threads closed too cause you fucking can't help it.
Go chimpout in the other thread.
I am shocked they couldn't last a day. Shocked.

Anyway of course Bakhmut can't fall because if this one town falls after seven months the war is obviously ogre, despite a quick glance at a map showing the losses Russia has taken trying to capture it not being worth it. Wow so you took ~30,000 casualties over seven months to capture a town (not captured yet) barely 20 miles from where the front lines were when the war started. Kramatorsk and Sloviansk would be the next targets, and are both heavily fortified. At this rate Russia will triumphantly capture them in 2026. At this rate Russia will take the full territory of Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts sometime in the mid-2030s. I don't feel so good hoholbros...
 
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Ask the people of these republics first, lol. With an exception of Tatarstan, these territories won't be able to sustain themselves (and Tatarstan is encircled anyway) and benefit greatly from federal funding. If anything, their secession will make Russia stronger.
It's also hilariously inaccurate to call Dagestani a nation (in reality they are dozens of tribes, often hating each other, cramped into a single autonomous republic by Bolsheviks).
Really now? Moscow consolidates budget of the entire country and decides who gets what (and of course feds prioritize themselves). Places like Chechnya are most definitely a drain, as all they produce is uncontrollable mountain niggers that cause trouble for everyone else, but that's the price Putin is willing to pay for Kadyrov's loyalty.
It's possible for few separate countries to exist in place of RF, it's just that everything is done to ensure it doesn't happen.
Fucking lunatic tactics. Just send moar people. Moar vehicles. Explode enough mines, maybe after a month you'll make it across the field and claim the city, give the widows some fur coats, and call it day in service of Glorious Russia. Then go on TV and cry about Russophobia and demand answers about "how come people dislike us?!?".
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Prigozhin has been in the news claiming the Bakhmut situation is not that rosy and it'll take a while to get the city. He's also trolling the idiotic Westoid press with the election interference/troll farm stuff funding, again. These journos don't understand that they should approach everything he is saying as a potential lie, an attempt to discredit the West and mock it as retarded. The Bakhmut claims could be that too.
And there are reports of Ukraine trying to get the civilians out, whatever is left of them in Bakhmut. Some speculation it might mean the start of a retreat.
No idea what policy there's still on sources, it's largely from CNN. I'll just post screenshots, I know people prefer a bit of fast info to clicking.
View attachment 4530225View attachment 4530229View attachment 4530222
Moscow Times article on the troll farms:
View attachment 4530249
Prigozhin was known as the person in charge of troll factories for years now. It's something they borrowed from chinks. This mofo is quite the entrepreneur.
At some point they began infesting runet, then started working on international platforms. I'm not sure if there's any investigation articles in English, you could try researching the matter.
 
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I am shocked they couldn't last a day. Shocked.

Anyway of course Bakhmut can't fall because if this one town falls after seven months the war is obviously ogre, despite a quick glance at a map showing the losses Russia has taken trying to capture it not being worth it. Wow so you took ~30,000 casualties over seven months to capture a town (not captured yet) barely 20 miles from where the front lines were when the war started. Kramatorsk and Sloviansk would be the next targets, and are both heavily fortified. At this rate Russia will triumphantly capture them in 2026. At this rate Russia will take the full territory of Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts sometime in the mid-2030s. I don't feel so good hoholbros...
They really can't help themselves. They had the happening thread so hopelessly astroturfed it was impossible to talk about anything that wasn't totally legit sourcing from Russian telegram. I especially loved the "totally real videos of perfectly legitimate Ukrainian soldiers talking about how badly they are losing". They kept posting those for months on end. Ukraine still hasn't lost yet though. So strange.
 
Getting back on topic, I don't see how Ukraine is going to hold Bakhmut. Not unless they can counter attack the Russian thrust towards Chasiv Yar. It's getting down to the decision point. Might be quite literally 2 weeks at this point, after half a year.

They answer is they don't need to hold it. Bakhmut is a defensible position you don't want to give up because of terrain, but losing Bakhmut is only the first step Russia has to take to some actual strategic objectives

mainly, if you are trying up Russia in Bakhmut, Russian forces aren't being deployed elsewhere. instead of one town, you've got to hold about 10 and potentially rush forces to breakthroughs.

People seem to forget you need different equipment to be a global military vs a regional military. You could have all the armored vehicles, artillery, and ammo in the world, but if you don't have plenty of military cargo/transport/mid-air refueling aircraft and the combat aircraft to escort them, and for overseas conflicts, plenty of military transport ships and the warships to escort them, you're still only gonna be a regional power because your logistics are now entirely limited to truck covoys and trains.

This shit right here. Russia never had force projection capabilities. Their airlift is garbage, their trucking is shit, the only thing they have is rail because the Soviets were rail foamers. The few non-adjacent actions they took part in, they relied on their hosts for logistics. Perun, while I don't agree with him on everything, had a good video about how Russia logistics work (or don't work) where Russia command uses bean counters in moscow to figure out what supplies units should need and then attempts to deliver it. No attempts to figure out if the supplies reach the front, and supply requests basically got to central command so the bean counters can refigure unit burn rates. They do it this way because of how slow Soviet Bureaucracy (read: Tsarist Bureaucracy) receives and acts on communication.
ex. How long did it take for Russia to move their ammo dumps back from the front? How long were their regulars stranded in Kherson before they were withdrawn?
And that took the orders of a general who's a Maverick, a Soldier's Soldier loose cannon who plays by his own rules to win the war not foment his own fiefdom, to make happen (a general who was promptly replaced as commander, despite doing the most anyone's done to stabilize Russia's position)

This is how you have soldiers turning up at the front with no gear and no weapons. "We are sending you expected replacement troops. Gear is still shipping."

This system is more functional than you'd think - as long as the front is getting the overall supplies it needs, lower-level unit commanders are suppose to horsetrade for what they need, and higher level commanders are supposed to prioritize objectives and ensure supplies to go those areas. But this breeds a culture of greed and graft.
 
They answer is they don't need to hold it. Bakhmut is a defensible position you don't want to give up because of terrain, but losing Bakhmut is only the first step Russia has to take to some actual strategic objectives

mainly, if you are trying up Russia in Bakhmut, Russian forces aren't being deployed elsewhere. instead of one town, you've got to hold about 10 and potentially rush forces to breakthroughs.
This was pretty much my thoughts too. Team Z hates the explanation though. They never like the response to the question "If it's not important whybhas Ukraine deployed so many troops there" being "Because that is where the Russians are".

Taking Bakhmut has to be part of some sort master plan for them when really if they want to take something important Zaporizhia would be far more useful as that would help shield their precious land bridge to Crimea. All taking Bakhmut does is make Donetsk City a little more safe then it was a few months ago. Which is fine, but hardly a ground shaking defeat for Ukraine.
 
This was pretty much my thoughts too. Team Z hates the explanation though. They never like the response to the question "If it's not important whybhas Ukraine deployed so many troops there" being "Because that is where the Russians are".

Taking Bakhmut has to be part of some sort master plan for them when really if they want to take something important Zaporizhia would be far more useful as that would help shield their precious land bridge to Crimea. All taking Bakhmut does is make Donetsk City a little more safe then it was a few months ago. Which is fine, but hardly a ground shaking defeat for Ukraine.
I thought that much was obvious. If enemy is willingly throwing themselves at the defensive position, then you use it to your advantage. There's no reason to cede ground on purpose because you'll have to do the same thing again just further back, possibly in a less favorable position while giving the opponent more space for maneuvering. Denying Russia Bakhmut makes them funnel more forces into this meatgrinder, as opposed to somewhere else, which Ukraine is making use of.
Of course it leads to losses on their end as well, no one wants to be there. But that's war. They're doing what they can with the cards they're dealt.

Russia is trying to bury defenders under mountains of Russian corpses, there's nothing to praise here. There's no tactical genius to it, just boundless cruelty and unspeakable callousness.
 
They really can't help themselves. They had the happening thread so hopelessly astroturfed it was impossible to talk about anything that wasn't totally legit sourcing from Russian telegram. I especially loved the "totally real videos of perfectly legitimate Ukrainian soldiers talking about how badly they are losing". They kept posting those for months on end. Ukraine still hasn't lost yet though. So strange.
"Do you follow the Ukraine conflict closely?"
"Of course! Here is the latest shelling in Bakhmut, 47 AFU perished. Here is the latest destroyed Leopard. Over in the south we have reports of war crimes. On the politics side, we can see Belgium and Germany on the verge of breaking over economic woes."
"So how many have died in total?"
"Uhh... maybe a million hohols? I had a totally credible source but I can't find it now."
 
>no thread for the enlightened radical centrist option
And what you want for this? It is just verifed info/probably info/rumours from non-idiotic source you can post it there I think.
I am shocked they couldn't last a day. Shocked.
Main topic in their thread is self-therapy when cope isn't working. Lets be kind, it is hard to have another day with unfallen Bakhmut.

Second big topic in that place is how they have more pages than this one, I cannot catch why quality of pages goes into guality.

Third thing they mass-debate is probably some girlz in internetz IYKWIM.

Reasume: I highly suggest to not dispute their issues further, their have a place to belive in strong monke and lets hope they stay there and not shit over neutral threads all over thunderdome.

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Moldova plot: saddly, not everything has sources.
1. So, sources of involvement of Serbs: https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ia-amid-russia-coup-plot-concerns-2023-02-14/ and https://odessa-journal.com/serbian-...to-arrive-in-moldova-under-the-guise-of-fans/ and https://balkaninsight.com/2023/02/1...nd-explanation-after-moldova-coup-plot-claim/ which is strange due to Montenegrian trace.

2. Reason for closing sky: https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...s-airspace-national-airliner-says-2023-02-14/ and this i fuckin' stupid. But if confirmed it will make more sense than closing sky due to coup d'etat plot (only routes to Moldova are through Ukraine and Romania, and this wild be extreme stupid to try to invade Moldova from air).

3. Ukrainian involvement is disputed on every news outlet, so without sources if I will not spott something interesting.

3. Other things: none sources yet. I highly doubt in taking care of Transnistria, mostly to they zero value as anything. Forces of ruzzkie in Transnistria are small (around 800-1500 men total), degenerated (many of them are untrained, this is more like combined police-mafia-social security scheme) and mostly consists locals that rather don't wanna die in this mess.
 
Part of the human cost Ukrainians are paying for their freedom. The brothers and one of the brothers' wife aren't that much older than I am. My best to these folks. Think you have it tough? Try living like these people.




Also recommend watching the "1420" videos on YouTube. Some rather brave young Russians ask people on the street, in both big cities and small towns, various questions about the war, Putin, America, other countries, etc. Been doing this since the war started. Some Russians will tell the truth. Most older people, and a few younger ones, follow the government line. Sadly, many people say little or nothing, fearing government retribution. Was most surprised to see just how Third World many areas in Russia, away from the big cities actually are. Incredible to see people having to draw their water from a bucket at a communal well outdoors, for example.
 
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2. Reason for closing sky: https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...s-airspace-national-airliner-says-2023-02-14/ and this i fuckin' stupid. But if confirmed it will make more sense than closing sky due to coup d'etat plot (only routes to Moldova are through Ukraine and Romania, and this wild be extreme stupid to try to invade Moldova from air).
Weather balloon madness is fucking crazy these days. hundreds of the bastards are floating around the globe every single day. Thx for the link
3. Other things: none sources yet. I highly doubt in taking care of Transnistria, mostly to they zero value as anything. Forces of ruzzkie in Transnistria are small (around 800-1500 men total), degenerated (many of them are untrained, this is more like combined police-mafia-social security scheme) and mostly consists locals that rather don't wanna die in this mess.
I'd all be for Cobasna being dealt with (in a manner that doesn't cause a boom and 7.5 earthquake that would make the Ammonia explosion in Lebannon look like a small fart). That place is damn scary and has been a source of arms around the world on the downlow for ages. On the otherhand explosion kino...
 
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