Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Pocket Dragoon]

I'd say it's just as vulnerable as the Su-25. They could be shipped to replace frogfoot losses with the benefit of being able to mount modern Western PGMs. I'd ship them without GAU-8 ammo just to minimize foolish use of the system. I'd assume they have a shit ton of usable airframes at the boneyard to save money.

I'd wager they're more survivable... but only if they can fly with the added ECM & the additional countermeasure pods (i.e. flares/chaff) as the USAF would flying those missions. And since the A-10's thermal signature is also definitely different & designed to be minimal (as compared to the Su-25), it's theoretically more difficult to hit with IR missiles.

And they definitely wouldn't be flying in with AGM-65s, dropping JDAMs (unless they play bomb-toss), and doing GAU gun-runs as the USAF would; instead we'd see them being loaded to the gills with folding-fin rocketpods, same as the Su-25.

Aside from that, one capability A-10 has which would be useful isn't the gun, it's being able to use ECM & HARM to hunt Russian battlefield radars (i.e. counterbattery & range/tracking), not just SAMs.

IIRC don't think Ukraine's Su-25 has that capability or equivalent Russian missile available, and they have to use Mig-29s & Su-27s for the anti-radiation role. But that's a pretty small & risky slice to use A-10s for, so an airborne MLRS it would mostly be.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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I wish my bills were back to pre-war prices. Nope, they are still above the government protection cap, which means I pay three times 'normal', and then the taxpayer pays the rest.

 

[MG-34]

Problem Ukraine is having when using the SU-25 is they don't have the fighter cover to keep Russian fighters from attacking them. More importantly they simply don't have enough SEAD aircraft to suppress Russian ground air defenses. But then everyone who isn't the U.S. military would also have this problem. SEAD is something neither the A-10 or SU-25 could do adequately.

Let me preface by saying I'm not a pilot or privy to modern air combat, but frogfoots or the A-10 can be used where there aren't active enemy combat air patrols. With Ukraine still having legacy Air Defense, and newer NATO AA to soon include the Patriot the Russians cannot lock down Ukrainian airspace in the same manner the US did in Iraq. Both sides are keeping aircraft close to the earth to avoid S-300/400s so the A-10 could be used in this manner. SEAD would have to come from something else like F-16s.

 

[Fait Accompli]

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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Yup, its quite ironic that the prices for the natural resources that the russian economy is built upon has tanked ( relative to the huge spike ), most prices are on par with 2020-2021 prices. And lets remember, there is now quite a substantial amount of carbos that has lost its market, changing the balance in favor of supply instead of demand. Russia might be exporting more in terms of tonnage, but the prices are lower and they are at a discount. For most parts of the west, winter is over. And for the northern parts winter is more than halfway over. The EU took the punch and its now all smooth sailing from here. The hardest period is always the short term transition. The advanced European economy has suffered, absolutely. But they are not built upon resource exports, Russia is. If markets are lost for carbons and the remaining ones have a reduced price ( plus a discount ), the russians economy will suffer a huge punch. With limited leverage in terms of loans, their only safety is their diminishing reserves which they are now consuming at a fast pace. Especially if they want to rebuild their military in terms of metal, the least worst source of material losses in this war is Oryx. Russia has lost a huge amount of their armored and mechanized units.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Let me preface by saying I'm not a pilot or privy to modern air combat, but frogfoots or the A-10 can be used where there aren't active enemy combat air patrols. With Ukraine still having legacy Air Defense, and newer NATO AA to soon include the Patriot the Russians cannot lock down Ukrainian airspace in the same manner the US did in Iraq.

In a minimum to no threat environment is exactly the place A-10s can do the most good.

sides are keeping aircraft close to the earth to avoid S-300/400s so the A-10 could be used in this manner. SEAD would have to come from something else like F-16s.

USAF have been using F-16s for SEAD for a long time now after retiring their F-4Gs. Which is one of the reasons Ukrainians want them.

@Pocket Dragoon SU-25 had been noted to look remarkably similar to the older Northrop YA-9A which had competed against the YA-10A in the A-X trial and lost.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Doctrine means nothing in case of ruzzia. In any circumstances. Whole war is AGAINST their doctrine of landwar and how to took battles, so I don't bet on they will use or didn't use nuke according to doctrine.

Ehhhh, I don't think that's the case.
What we are seeing is an attempt at modern Deep Battle + political warfare that failed.

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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Meanwhile the winter is almost over...

 

[No. 7 cat]

Euro countries also lightened excise and green taxes to obviate economic damage. Putin patently hoped for an extension to his empire quickly or slowly and nothing more than a variant on the existing and very partial sanctions. French companies like Thales (a supplier of tank electronics and similar) were using the existing contracts clause to keep selling almost until the Russians invaded. Putin patently believed that with corn pop in the Oval Office, Boris Johnson lying to himself in 10 Downing Street, a diminished Macron in the Elysée, muddler Scholz, Italian political confusion that a co-ordinated Western response would not happen, barring some harmless communiques. Putin patently believed his own propaganda. Anyhow fuel pump prices are now lower than before the war, natural gas is finally falling, although falling demand would cause that to some extent.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Enjoy some vatnik seething about Fossil Fossilievsky's Kiev visit

 

[delerious?]

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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It was funny indeed, seeing people like partisan girl saying "winter is coming" like it would make a dent in any western country. Germany basically switched from being dependant on one country to having a diverse energy supply chain. It's ironic

 

[DumbDude43]

It was funny indeed, seeing people like partisan girl saying "winter is coming" like it would make a dent in any western country. Germany basically switched from being dependant on one country to having a diverse energy supply chain. It's ironic

i told these guys over and over again that they shouldn't expect much more than people complaining about price spikes, and that the very worst that could realistically happen would be some form of rationing applied to selected sectors of industry (which i don't think ended up happening)
the number of civilians freezing in their homes was always going to be zero, and that's exactly how it turned out.

 

[Random Internet Person]

It was funny indeed, seeing people like partisan girl saying "winter is coming" like it would make a dent in any western country. Germany basically switched from being dependant on one country to having a diverse energy supply chain. It's ironic

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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Honestly, I think all these people have moved onto saying the US performed an act of terrorism or an act of war in regards to Nordstream.

 

[delerious?]

i told these guys over and over again that they shouldn't expect much more than people complaining about price spikes, and that the very worst that could realistically happen would be some form of rationing applied to selected sectors of industry (which i don't think ended up happening)
the number of civilians freezing in their homes was always going to be zero, and that's exactly how it turned out.

Some people struggled in the United Kingdom Afaik. But that was due to government mismanagement; I doubt anyone froze because of it however.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

Rememer how all Europeans were supposed to freeze to death this winter because of super high gas prices? Back around late august ziggers wouldn't shut the fuck up about it, but it seems like they've been really quiet about that lately. I wonder why.

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I know. I'm disappointed the Euros didn't freeze too

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

New drone ECM & comms-jamming system "Palantin-K", observed by drone being destroyed by artillery:

The aerial reconnaissance unit and artillerymen of the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade destroyed the Russian Palantin-K electronic warfare system in the Zaporizhzhya direction with precision fire.

The Russian system was hit from the first shot, presumably by an M982 Excalibur precision projectile.

The fire on the target was adjusted by the Ukrainian Leleka-100 UAV operator.

These things are very new, and they probably only have a couple; not exactly something they can whip together from Chinese cut-rate circuits.

Palantin-K
Palantin-K is one of the latest developments in the Russian defense industry, adopted only in 2019. The system was developed by the Sozvezdye concern, which specializes in manufacturing high-tech intelligent command and communication systems, electronic warfare equipment, and other special weapons.

Palantin-K is mounted on the KamAZ truck chassis. It is designed to suppress radio communication systems and conduct electronic reconnaissance. The capabilities of the system allow jamming electronic systems of the enemy in the shortwave bands.

The manufacturer assures that Palantin can create various types of obstacles to navigation systems and deprive the enemy of cellular and trunking communications. The system is credited with the ability to launch targeted attacks to disable the air defense radar or the command and control system.


Russian-made Palantin-K EW system vehicles. Photo from open sources
The Palantin system is quite versatile. If necessary, it is possible to involve other EW and radio-electronic intelligence devices such as Moskva, Zhytel, and others in its system. Such a system should increase the efficiency of all means involved in it.

One of the main tasks of the system is to combat enemy UAVs. The manufacturer indicates the range of effective use against UAVs at a distance of 20 kilometers.

Russia's Palantin electronic warfare system makes training debut
Jun 10, 2020

The Palantin electronic warfare (EW) system has made its training debut with a Russian battalion tactical group during an exercise near Voronezh, the Western Military...

The Palantin electronic warfare (EW) system has made its training debut with a Russian battalion tactical group during an exercise near Voronezh, the Western Military District (WMD) press service announced on its website on 17 September.

The Palantin EW system during a rehearsal for the 9 May 2018 Victory Day parade in Voronezh. (Russian MoD)
The Palantin EW system during a rehearsal for the 9 May 2018 Victory Day parade in Voronezh. (Russian MoD)

The system was used to “suppress enemy radio communication and electronic intelligence systems in a 1,000 km wide swathe”, the WMD states. “The capabilities of the equipment make it possible to blind the enemy in the short-wave and ultra-short-wave ranges, as well as to deprive it of cellular communications.”

The Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD) said on its website on 12 March that the system can be used to discretely target radio frequency objects, conduct bandwidth and specific frequency jamming, and detect opposing forms of EW.

Palantin can also be used to create a system-of-systems by combining various EW and electronic reconnaissance systems into a single co-ordinated network to enhance efficiency, the MoD explained.

During the exercise, Palantin was protected by the ZSU-23-4 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun system, 2K22 Tunguska missile and cannon armed air defence vehicle, and 9K330 Tor missile system.

Palantin, which translates into either ‘shoulder cloak’ or ‘stole’, entered service with the WMD in April 2019 and was originally scheduled to participate in an exercise in July, the RIA Novosti news agency reported on 27 June.

TV Zvezda reported on 5 May that, once Palantin is combined with existing EW systems, it would be capable of impeding the use of precision-guided munitions by preventing the accurate location of potential targets and information dissemination.

Edit, in other news; an audio recording of Prigozhin on ammo supply issues for Wagner, who states he is forced to "apologize and obey" to try to get ammunition.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

navalny is a retard and borderline traitor tbh

I would've argued but I don't know what else to call someone who returned to the country after being poisoned knowing he would be imprisoned and likely die in jail. That's for the retarded part at least, not sure what makes him a traitor, he's more of a patriot than anyone in the sitting government. Also, this is someone posting on his behalf I think.
He isn't the best, but we hardly have a lot of alternatives here. Until Putin's regime is gone, we won't have any smart people stepping up.
Not sure why people think he's in it for money, he could've stayed abroad living good life in exile grifting and selling books, instead of returning and getting prosecuted.

It falls flat in the resistance Ukraine has shown so far, the west was ready to leave Ukraine to dry during the initial first 2 weeks of the invasion and only changed course when they saw Ukrainian defenses were holding and the Russians couldn't take Kiev.

I hope once this is over, Ukraine remembers that and invades US with their own weapons for how they got thrown under the bus in 2014 and this whole approach in general.

 

[mindlessobserver]

I would've argued but I don't know what else to call someone who returned to the country after being poisoned knowing he would be imprisoned and likely die in jail. That's for the retarded part at least, not sure what makes him a traitor, he's more of a patriot than anyone in the sitting government. Also, this is someone posting on his behalf I think.
He isn't the best, but we hardly have a lot of alternatives here. Until Putin's regime is gone, we won't have any smart people stepping up.
Not sure why people think he's in it for money, he could've stayed abroad living good life in exile grifting and selling books, instead of returning and getting prosecuted.

I hope once this is over, Ukraine remembers that and invades US with their own weapons for how they got thrown under the bus in 2014 and this whole approach in general.

In 2014 Ukraine literally didn't have a functioning military. The US didn't so much "throw them under the bus". It was more that we didn't pull them out after the bus had already run them over. That seemed to have been the plan here too, up until Russia spectacularly botched the Kiev offensive.

 

[MG-34]

In 2014 Ukraine literally didn't have a functioning military. The US didn't so much "throw them under the bus". It was more that we didn't pull them out after the bus had already run them over. That seemed to have been the plan here too, up until Russia spectacularly botched the Kiev offensive.

The Obama administration fucked up by refusing to send lethal aid during that period.

 

[mindlessobserver]

The Obama administration fucked up by refusing to send lethal aid during that period.

It would not have done any good. Ukraine didn't have an army worth spit at the time. It would have just pissed off Russia for no tangible results.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Ukraine didn't have an army worth spit at the time.

Also ruzzia have nothing to conduct offensive. They taked only Crimea (with using all avaible special forces) and start shit in Donbas (mostly using degenerates like Girhin, Lamborghini etc.).

 

[Rezza]

I just realized it's going to be a full year of this war. Since Putin is most likely going to give a speech during the anniversary, since he's so into political symbolism, I really wonder what he's going to announce soon

Also, remember all the retards and Ziggers saying Ukraine was going to fall in "days, no, hours"? LMAO