5th-grade student’s exam question has left adults stumped - ITT: Kiwis MATI because they can't Math

(Article, archive)
One sibling has been left scratching their head at their younger brother’s Year 5 math exam.

The question, shared to Reddit, asks students to figure out how many pages are in a book.

“Klein read 30 pages of a book on Monday and one eighth of the book on Tuesday,” the question read.

“He completed the remaining quarter of the book on Wednesday. How many pages are there in the book?”

Some social media users were immediately stumped by the question.


One person commented: “And now we can all see why “Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?” worked as a game show.”

“Today I learned I would fail fifth grade math,” another said on the thread.

One passionate person said: “I always think to my self; ‘Ugh. People should really be tested with basic skills before they’re allowed to go out into society.”

“And then I see this and realize I shouldn’t go out into society LOL!”

Not everyone agreed the question difficult.

“Not to be rude, but what is interesting about this,” one said.

“It looks just like any other math problem that I’ve done in 5th grade.”

Someone with a PhD in engineering, with a focus on applied mathematics, said it wasn’t difficult to work out but it came with the assumption that Klein started the book on Monday.

Once you have that, you divide 30 pages by five to see how much one eighth is worth, with the answer being six.

Math lovers then just do the simple multiplication of eight times six, with the answer being 48, and the equation is solved.

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Really hate how math illiterate our society is. This problem is a basic equation

Spoiler: Math solution

30+x/8+×/4=x

where x is the #of pages read, and the 3 counts they give you have to add up to x.

we multiply by 8 to make our lives easier

240+x+2x=8x

then we bring the xs to one side
240 = 8x-x-2x
add the xs
240= 5x
then divide by 5
48=x

I hate people who suck at math

 

[Haint]

Nerds

 

[Ishtar]

That's what makes it a damn math problem. I can't believe so many people have difficulty with the concept that the whole point of word problems is to derive clear mathematical formulas from muddy information.

What you're complaining about is the raison d'etre of algebra in the first place.

If it were a “damn math problem” it would have cut out anything extraneous and made the actual question crystal clear.

Did you not read that they add these uncertainties to trick you? “Klein read thirty pages”-did he read more before?

Knowing it’s 30 +3/8ths=x would clarify the problem beyond any uncertainty. That wasn’t done.

A reader could easily presume Klein read a single page or a hundred pages on Saturday. The text doesn’t expressly say “he started the book and read thirty pages” this lack of clarity is why the question is hard for many people to do. The language and what is included or not matters.

This sort of thing is regularly used in quizzes and tests from elementary to college. You as student have to ignore irrelevant details or train yourself to make the right assumptions(it only says thirty so there isn’t anything before to worry about). People who have been out of school for decades haven’t kept up that skill.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

That's what makes it a damn math problem. I can't believe so many people have difficulty with the concept that the whole point of word problems is to derive clear mathematical formulas from muddy information.

What you're complaining about is the raison d'etre of algebra in the first place.

Honestly, I can't help but think this is how you kill a kids desire to learn. It's badly written question that is more focused on your English skills then math. The "smart" kid that answers this would probably enjoy working on it in a fun puzzle book but on a graded assignment/test they might just end up asking "why am I wasting my time on this? What's the point. This is dumb. This stupid question cost me some points leading to a lower letter grade because I misread the q question, not because I don't know how to math."

 

[Matt Damon]

If it were a “damn math problem” it would have cut out anything extraneous and made the actual question crystal clear.

Distilling real-world problems and all their "extraneous" details into precise mathematical models is the entire point of algebra.

If you didn't get that, your schooling failed you on a profound level. Autistic pure math academics notwithstanding, math is about the utility that we get out of it, not just moving abstract symbols around for the sake of it.

 

[byuu]

If it were a “damn math problem” it would have cut out anything extraneous and made the actual question crystal clear.

Did you not read that they add these uncertainties to trick you? “Klein read thirty pages”-did he read more before?

Knowing it’s 30 +3/8ths=x would clarify the problem beyond any uncertainty. That wasn’t done.

A reader could easily presume Klein read a single page or a hundred pages on Saturday. The text doesn’t expressly say “he started the book and read thirty pages” this lack of clarity is why the question is hard for many people to do. The language and what is included or not matters.

This sort of thing is regularly used in quizzes and tests from elementary to college. You as student have to ignore irrelevant details or train yourself to make the right assumptions(it only says thirty so there isn’t anything before to worry about). People who have been out of school for decades haven’t kept up that skill.

You are retarded.

I haven't exactly specified who "You" is referring to, so you might be confused if I'm not talking to the ghost of my dead hamster.

 

[Matt Damon]

"why am I wasting my time on this? What's the point. This is dumb. This stupid question cost me some points leading to a lower letter grade because I misread the q question, not because I don't know how to math."

ITT people cope hard about the childhood trauma they suffered because of their poor critical thinking skills.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

Distilling real-world problems and all their "extraneous" details into precise mathematical models is the entire point of algebra.

Then make real world problems not overly complicated word problems for simple concepts.

Hell, give the student a recipe list. Tell them it makes enough for 4 servings but you need 13 servings for your dinner party. This is far better use of real world math application.

ITT people cope hard about the childhood trauma they suffered because of their poor critical thinking skills.question.

Nigga, I'm an a goddamn electrical engineer, spare me. I'm against the ass backwards method the school uses. This is a shit question. And in the real world you would send back a email asking for clarification.

This is just obtuse shit the schools make kids do for no real reason. It's like telling them to answer in compete sentences by rewriting the question into the answer when a 2 word response is more sufficient and still a complete sentence

 

[Matt Damon]

Then make real world problems not overly complicated word problems for simple concepts.

Making the information cryptic and requiring the student to glean it via logical inference is the point. It's a synthetic test designed to train that skill.

It's just shocking that people can't grasp this. This is the premise of the very concept of education.

 

[Ishtar]

Distilling real-world problems and all their "extraneous" details into precise mathematical models is the entire point of algebra.

If you didn't get that, your schooling failed you on a profound level. Autistic pure math academics notwithstanding, math is about the utility that we get out of it, not just moving abstract symbols around for the sake of it.

People have a tendency when reading to look for and consciously or not take into consideration things unwritten. Since the passage doesn’t say he started on Sunday, people will think at least subconsciously that maybe he read more earlier. Reading skills(inference, and context clues) and math often work at completely cross purposes.

When you’re doing a math problem you have to ignore and suppress the part of your brain that tells you to consider or worry about what isn’t just the numbers. If this were an English class, what Klein read on Saturday would absolutely matter.

But being a math quiz you have to come to the assumption “he started on Monday” without the text telling you this or even implying it. There is no critical thinking involved, it’s just ignoring one skill in service to another-people that aren’t trained to do this by not being in school.

Making the information cryptic and requiring the student to glean it via logical inference is the point. It's a synthetic test designed to train that skill.

It's just shocking that people can't grasp this. This is the premise of the very concept of education.

There is no implication Klein started on Monday, nor is there any inference to derive this. You know it because the way these questions work is forcing you to not ask the question. Ignore the part of your mind that asks.

I was in HS and college relatively recently, I know how this works.

 

[Matt Damon]

Reading skills(inference, and context clues) and math often work at completely cross purposes.

That's why you learn and train via repetition to improve that skill. It's called "school".

And apparently it doesn't work because holy shit, just look at this thread.

 

[Ishtar]

That's why you learn and train via repetition to improve that skill. It's called "school".

And apparently it doesn't work because holy shit, just look at this thread.

Yes and people who have been out of the grind of school for a long time don’t suppress their right brain when trying to do a problem. As children are taught in kindergarten.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

Making the information cryptic and requiring the student to glean it via logical inference is the point. It's a synthetic test designed to train that skill.

It's just shocking that people can't grasp this. This is the premise of the very concept of education.

Then write better questions, instead of over complicated shit.

On a side note: Google is garbage at finding old math word problems. That shit was hard but at least practical when it's asking if farmer brown wants to bushels of apples, how many trees can be planted on a half acres while still taking into account spoilage, etc. Not this shit in the OP.

 

[Ishtar]

Bit of disclosure: I am actually going into education and I think the question is bad. It’s one I had thousands of times K-12 yes, that doesn’t make it any clearer or well designed.

 

[Matt Damon]

Yes and people who have been out of the grind of school for a long time don’t suppress their right brain when trying to do a problem.

If you can't "suppress your right brain" sufficiently to do a math problem targeted at an elementary school child, maybe that's a issue with you and not the math problem.

Then write better questions, instead of over complicated shit.

The complexity is the point. That's what makes it a word problem.

 

[byuu]

There is no implication Klein started on Monday, nor is there any inference to derive this. You know it because the way these questions work is forcing you to not ask the question. Ignore the part of your mind that asks.

No, you're just too fucking retarded to eliminate that possibility even though it would obviously lead to the question not having a solution.

 

[Matt Damon]

I wish I were egocentric enough that that I could look at a ten-year-old's math homework and conclude "I don't understand this. That doesn't mean I'm a moron - it must be the question that's at fault."

It would make life so much simpler.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

The complexity is the point. That's what makes it a word problem.

Complexity for the sake of tripping up students is how you get a student to say "fuck this" and lose any interest they may have.

You can write good word problems, this isn't one of them.

 

[supremeautismo]

Honestly, I can't help but think this is how you kill a kids desire to learn. It's badly written question that is more focused on your English skills then math. The "smart" kid that answers this would probably enjoy working on it in a fun puzzle book but on a graded assignment/test they might just end up asking "why am I wasting my time on this? What's the point. This is dumb. This stupid question cost me some points leading to a lower letter grade because I misread the q question, not because I don't know how to math."

Distilling real-world problems and all their "extraneous" details into precise mathematical models is the entire point of algebra.

If you didn't get that, your schooling failed you on a profound level. Autistic pure math academics notwithstanding, math is about the utility that we get out of it, not just moving abstract symbols around for the sake of it.

ITT people cope hard about the childhood trauma they suffered because of their poor critical thinking skills.

As someone who above powerlevelled embarrassingly about my inability to read, may I propose-- all of these things are true.

Being a good test taker in the United States, aside from advantages of it in terms of how well you do in your future career(s), can inspire children (and adults) to think critically in different ways, especially about math problems, which are rarely actually 2x+7/8 = y

However, assuming all kids can learn in the same way has been devastating to academia as a whole. Taking away race realism (sorry A&H, just for a moment, I promise,) it's obvious in a lot of the "smart white kid" schools in Scandinavia are successful because on top of teaching these skills that we do in the States, there is also a focus on other ways children learn. Children don't just learn via language; many learn visually, physically, or away from a rigid schedule, encouraging relaxation techniques.

How many Autists and weird ADHD fucks who really for once contribute to society do we lose because tax dollars are wasted on middle management salaries and asinine race-realism grifts?

Common Core would have been better received had it been taught in addition pun unintended to how it was taught for the past 50+ years. Punishing kids for getting to problems the "wrong" way is why we're so bad at math. It's no surprise Asian countries excel with math far more when it's introduced at a younger age (pre-3 years old) instead of slamming kids with it when they're already nearly 7 and no longer as malleable, and then punishing them for even trying. All you have to do is look at the black community to see what happens when cruelty and ignorance are rewarded, and pushing yourself and trying is punished.

And also, yes, I'm still salty over struggling with math in school. I am deeply Autistic.

 

[Ishtar]

Complexity for the sake of tripping up students is how you get a student to say "fuck this" and lose any interest they may have.

You can write good word problems, this isn't one of them.

The education system is designed to beat down your actual desire to learn. (Which makes me feel bad but still).

 

[Matt Damon]

Children don't just learn via language; many learn visually, physically,

I don't know what "physically" learning algebra would entail and nothing prevents you from drawing a diagram of a kid reading a book if that's your bag.

All of this "learning methods/modalities" shit is just cope for having poor logical reasoning skills.