Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fait Accompli]

So, real question here: After Europe has bleed themselfes dry of any usable weapons to give to the Ukrainians in the sheer hope of utilizing them as a proxy against Russia, what exactly would prevent Zelensky and Puting from an Agreement that ensures Peace between them and allows Putins forces free movement through his country towards the rest of Europa, overwhelming a now virtually defenseless continent?

I can think of a few things

1) Reality

Wait, that was only one thing. I'll be sure to add a few more things when i figure them out
All the best

 

[No bullying allowed]

So, real question here: After Europe has bleed themselfes dry of any usable weapons to give to the Ukrainians in the sheer hope of utilizing them as a proxy against Russia, what exactly would prevent Zelensky and Puting from an Agreement that ensures Peace between them and allows Putins forces free movement through Ukraine towards the rest of Europa, overwhelming a now virtually defenseless continent?

You mean reasons other than it being a completely unrealistic scenario?
1) Most of the weapons being given are weapon systems that were due to be replaced anyway, especially in the category of vehicles, meaning the invasion has to get started soon before that stuff is replaced, don't really see the Russian army capable of another war any time soon.
2) Most of Europe is under the NATO umbrella, I'm sure NATO can still scrounge up enough to absolutely obliterate any Russian attempt.
3) Even without US involvement, the EU still has 1.4 million active soldiers, maybe not as well-equipped as the US but they'd be on the defensive, giving them an edge.
4) Any actual "world war" involving the entirety of Europe and Russia would most likely escalate to nuclear war and we'd all be dead anyway.

 

[Koko Jambo]

Shoigu's son in law (while on a vacation on a luxurious middle eastern beach) made a video calling Russian soldiers "Z cattle" (an apt description if you ask me) and many high profile pro-war Russians are furious.

View attachment 4636760

I don't get why this made me kek so hard. Probably the statement and the general arrogant vibe from the picture.

POV: you are the average Russian
le to the mao'

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

I don't, most of my sympathy goes to Ukraine tbh

I really like Tuvans. I can be sperging about history of Tuva and quasi-state Tannu Tuva for days.

If you ever see on KF a thread about Tuva/Tannu Tuva it will be mine. And don't ho them if you didn't want to see heavy sperging. Lets say, if someone call me a Tuva-sperg that means that this person will call CWC a little interested in vidya

After Europe has bleed themselfes dry of any usable weapons

You know Europe sended only ~1-2% of their stock, mostly the less valuable ones, right?

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Shoigu's son in law (while on a vacation on a luxurious middle eastern beach) made a video calling Russian soldiers "Z cattle" (an apt description if you ask me) and many high profile pro-war Russians are furious.

View attachment 4636760

Prigozin is extra furious and wants him (his arch-rival's son in law) conscripted into Wagner as punishment and sent to the front.

View attachment 4636799

Strelkov, former leader of the DPR turned pessimistic milblogger also had this to say:

View attachment 4636793

I've read several major Russian milbloggers have since turned on Wagner as a result of prigozin's antics lately (shitting on Russia'a top military man's family, posting pictures of stacks of Russian dead bodies, etc.) But haven't found any solid examples I can post here yet.


As one final pic here's a heatmap of where Russian Casualties lived. Unsurprisingly it's the poor rural regions without any power or influence that take the majority of the losses while affluent areas like the Leningrad and Moscow oblasts take almost no casualties.

View attachment 4636763

Based dude, not only fucking Shoigu's daughter, but also shitting on ziggers 10/10

 

[GatorAids]

I just have to wonder how much shit Urukhai Prighozhin will take before he tries to pull a Chen Shen Wu Guang and decides "eh they're gonna kill me anyways, might as well try to kill them first".

 

[WhiteNight]

no you mongoloid
first, this moronic retardation left both japan and germany as dead nations with no future, little more than burger vassal states and military proxies. violent death is a better outcome than this kind of descent into perpetual servitude, this is why russia is willing to continue the fight at any cost, whatever it takes, to the bitter end if necessary. and unlike japan and germany in 45, russia actually does have the means to defend itself.

Contrary to vatnik propaganda, not every allied capital from London to Tokyo is taking orders from Washington. These are independent countries that quite often don't do what Americans want. Go ask a few citizens of Germany and Japan whether they wish someone would violently kill them so they don't have to continue to live as they do in "perpetual servitude"; somehow I don't think you'll get any takers.

second, the degree of total destruction that would be necessary to implement these apocalyptic plans of yours is impossible to achieve against russia without taking down half the civilized world in a nuclear exchange in the process.

You apparently missed that I immediately afterwards said that this "ideal" scenario was not realistic because of nukes. But thanks for repeating my point for me.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Imagine "trusting" the Chinese with a peace plan.

That 'plan' was more like a speach on Miss World contest that a plan. 'Everyone should respect everyone so everyone will be respected. Save puppies'.

And you better hope the few sane Russians remaining get in power to break the cycle of authoritarian insanity.

This is more like what options will be avaible to them. Not they sanity.

Sorry for everyone, but to change national priorities a nation must get a trauma. Big trauma, not only ' we lost our sons'. I can only point two examples where this was achieved without occupation or civil war:

- UK when it get to decolonize India and Africa after 1945,
- Portugal after revolution in 1970s when they start to decolonize.

But lets say that ruzzia will go to modernization road. What must be done?

- first of all: they MUST get it that they have nearly no offensive abilities. Ukraine is showing this in hard way, but they still didn't get simple fact that thousands of old as fuck vehicles aren't enough. And rest of what needs modern offensive army - great airforce, giant supply base, fucktonnes of money - aren't avaible in ruzzia and will not be avaible in future.

- second of all: ruzzia will must rethink about they economy. Now it is just shit concerned around digging and digging with agriculture that isn't sufficent to feed all of population. So state must reindustrialize and make a decent c00nsumer market to generate also non-industrial jobs. And both things must be achieved in one time.

- third of all: in the same fuckin time when they will be reindustrialization they must rorganize republics and oblasts in way that will make more sense than 'ok, so Kadyrov needs a playground. Also we need to isolate Dagestan. Hey, it will be funny when we make a atonomus oblast for what-he-hell that tribe is, but in that oblast it will be more than 70% of ruzzkies'. And this part will be hard both when it will come to decide how to distribute power (what is decided in Moscow, what in oblasts/republics) and how to drawn new internal borders.

 

[draggs]

no you mongoloid
first, this moronic retardation left both japan and germany as dead nations with no future, little more than burger vassal states and military proxies. violent death is a better outcome than this kind of descent into perpetual servitude, this is why russia is willing to continue the fight at any cost, whatever it takes, to the bitter end if necessary. and unlike japan and germany in 45, russia actually does have the means to defend itself.

That's retarded. Germany and Japan may not have futures but that is because they decided to not make enough German and Japanese babbies, not because they tied their cart to the United States and ended up being two of the four richest nations on the planet

 

[DumbDude43]

Go ask a few citizens of Germany and Japan whether they wish someone would violently kill them so they don't have to continue to live as they do in "perpetual servitude"; somehow I don't think you'll get any takers.

yeah, because they're irreversably broken people already.
but russians are not, and knowing that this is what you intend to do to them means that they WILL fight to the death if push comes to shove, and they have the weapons to take you down with them.

That's retarded. Germany and Japan may not have futures but that is because they decided to not make enough German and Japanese babbies, not because they tied their cart to the United States and ended up being two of the four richest nations on the planet

demographic collapse in these countries is direct result of feminism, which in turn was championed and on them by americans.
similar issues exist in eastern europe and asia because soviet commie rulers (chinese commies too) championed the exact same anti-nationalism and anti-traditionalism as americans did, and almost every country in eurasia is or was under the boot of these powers for a long time (many still are)

 

[Clownish]

A Ukrainian Youtube channel just uploaded an 1 hour long interview with Azov fighter Chemist with full English Dub. Chemist talks about his life and surviving Azovstal.

Edit: He talks about the beginning of the war, how Azov took overall command of Mariupol, and about commanders of other military units running away when the war began.

 

[draggs]

yeah, because they're irreversably broken people already. russians are not. they WILL fight to the death if push comes to shove, and they have the weapons to take you down with them.

Your premises are autistic and your support for them shaky. Please continue. Don't skimp on that angy frustration either

 

[No bullying allowed]

yeah, because they're irreversably broken people already.
but russians are not, and knowing that this is what you intend to do to them means that they WILL fight to the death if push comes to shove, and they have the weapons to take you down with them.

The everday modern ruskie has always blindly submitted to whatever authority in power, they've never had any real power to change their society and they've been shafted for generations by the people on top, Russia has every condition necessary to be the richest country in the world with one of, if not the highest standard of living, yet you still have villages sharing a communal well, all this while bending over and asking to be shafted some more. If you want to witness a cucked slave mentality you needn't look further. There is a reason Russians hit the drink so hard, it's hopelessness, Russia might not have to deal with LGBTAHISDK+ parades but they have plenty of depravity to spare.

 

[MG-34]

So, real question here: After Europe has bleed themselfes dry of any usable weapons to give to the Ukrainians in the sheer hope of utilizing them as a proxy against Russia, what exactly would prevent Zelensky and Puting from an Agreement that ensures Peace between them and allows Putins forces free movement through Ukraine towards the rest of Europa, overwhelming a now virtually defenseless continent?

The fact Ukraine is full of armed Ukranians that have a minor grievance with the Russian Armed Forces and the US still has despite claiming Europe is "bled dry" NATO still has superior air and ground forces as well as a large stock of tactical nuclear weapons?

 

[Random Internet Person]

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2258386/saudi-arabia

https://archive.ph/ozQMq

 

[DumbDude43]

The everday modern ruskie has always blindly submitted to whatever authority in power, they've never had any real power to change their society and they've been shafted for generations by the people on top, Russia has every condition necessary to be the richest country in the world with one of, if not the highest standard of living, yet you still have villages sharing a communal well, all this while bending over and asking to be shafted some more. If you want to witness a cucked slave mentality you needn't look further. There is a reason Russians hit the drink so hard, it's hopelessness, Russia might not have to deal with LGBTAHISDK+ parades but they have plenty of depravity to spare.

i'm well aware that russia is a shithole in many ways. some call it "nigeria but with snow" for a reason.
but that is besides the point. people have an innate desire for independence, for self-determination, for freedom from foreign rule. this pride is unrelated to how rich or poor they are, and it is very much alive in russia.
when hostile foreign forces are floating ideas such as "dude just versailles them haha" and "bro we should potsdam them lmao" it has a very strong galvanizing effect and acts as a massive boost for their willingness to rally behind their leadership in resistance against these foreign enemies.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

I honestly feel more sorry for the Tuvans than the Ukrainians at this point, that's a lot of young men coming home in bodybags because of some Muscovite imperial ambitions

Considering the shit state of Russia's age demographics, and just how disproportionately the Russian military is feeding the meatgrinder with young people from these very poor and low population regions, there's a very real chance this war is going to fuck over the ethnic groups in Siberia very, very hard. It won't be too obvious at first, but I won't be surprised to see a bunch of Siberian ethnic groups suffer another version of the echo effect Russia has thanks to losing tens of millions of people in World War 2.

 

[East_Clintwood]

what exactly would prevent Zelensky and Puting from an Agreement that ensures Peace between them and allows Putins forces free movement through Ukraine towards the rest of Europa

I feel like the fact Russia has been deliberately, even gleefully, murdering Ukrainian citizens is the obvious stumbling block here.

overwhelming a now virtually defenseless continent?

Europe is far from defenseless, in fact one of the biggest issues in sending more aid has been they want to maintain at least a certain level of readiness amongst their own forces.

Then of course there's important questions like how does a supply system that is failing to maintain 100mile long supply lines, on it's own borders, against a handful of HIMARS hope to maintain thousand mile long supply lines, through what would be hostile territory, against opponents who have real time satellite intel and cruise missiles?
How does a navy that is currently losing to a country with zero ships hope to fight against ones that have actual, functional ships? How is an air force that's failed to stop Ukrainians soviet hand me downs from flying hope to fight against modern European jets that, thanks to aerial refueling assets, can come at Russia from all sorts of angles?
How does Russia fight Europe while knowing that America is going to come steaming across the Pacific and fuck them up from behind?

Russia's ability to take Europe was arguable during the Cold War when they had the rest of the Pact to pad out their numbers, and the Red army was already squatting in East Germany. These days without either of those, and with what we've seen of their performance in Ukraine it's no longer arguable, Russia simply does not have what it takes to conquer Europe in a conventional war.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

it has a very strong galvanizing effect and acts as a massive boost for their willingness to rally behind their leadership in resistance against these foreign enemies.

Last time the men who fucked up ruzzkie ability to collaborate with occupants was Hitler - beside cruel rule of nazis in occupied lands they STILL be many etnic Russians that go into full collaboration mode and form several divisions for german army.

This is not a case. When your state claims that it will conquer Xstan, andin ends with occupation of all/part of formely aggresive sate morale is going to shit ('we were starving for five years to have a sufficent army and it is unsufficent as fuck! what idiots are in capital?1 who to blame?!'). Sometimes people blame Jews (Germany after 191 but not always.

And germany i 1918 was extreme specific situation they de facto capitulate with humilitation (espiecially: they fleet was forced to be jailed in Scapa Flow) BEFORE a single enemy soldier entered proper Germany (the only territories of Second Reich occupied was their colonies, mostly not even a shitholes). Fuck it, in last day of first world war Germany has still occupy most of Belgium, big chunk of France and nearly whole EE (excluding proper ruzzia).

 

[Racist Trash]

New video from our favorite powerpointing Aussie.

I can't believe that Emutopia keeps invading poor Kiwiland.