Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[GuntnGout]

I can Understand simping for Zelenski when you live in Hoholstan and your freedom and Hand outs depend on it, but what did japan do to deserve this?

 

[teriyakiburns]

I can Understand simping for Zelenski when you live in Hoholstan and your freedom and Hand outs depend on it, but what did japan do to deserve this?

Anime avatars.

 

[Null]

I can Understand simping for Zelenski when you live in Hoholstan and your freedom and Hand outs depend on it, but what did japan do to deserve this?

I don't live in Ukraine and I don't support Zelensky. I just think you're a retard and should be buried alive. Zelensky's election was part of why I left in 2019.

 

[Dyn]

They still haven't taken Bakmut? The news about the CULDRON was weeks ago. They're just drone striking random dudes in the middle of far west Ukraine while not taking any ground.

What the fuck is even the objective at this point?

Pretty sure Russia's only objective is preventing western companies from developing the gas and oil reserves that were found in Ukraine. Any negotiated settlement short of total annexation is a potentially nation-breaking loss for Russia in the longterm, but as long as the war is ongoing and BP are afraid to invest, Russia is winning.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Pretty sure Russia's only objective is preventing western companies from developing the gas and oil reserves that were found in Ukraine. Any negotiated settlement short of total annexation is a potentially nation-breaking loss for Russia in the longterm, but as long as the war is ongoing and BP are afraid to invest, Russia is winning.

If only, but I speculated all along that this might be one of the reasons. The reality is far more retarded than just that though, more ego-driven than pragmatic.
It's true that being challenged on fossil fuel market by Ukraine in Europe might have severe consequences for Russian economy, but that's entirely a result of relying so much on its export to begin with, and never bothering to build up a stronger economy instead of just pumping oil.

I suppose it's ironic that this situation forced Russia into position where they have to sell oil and gas to chinks and pajeets for a fraction of market price, pissing away precious resources just to retain some "friends" and maintain some income.

 

[WhiteNight]

did that 1.25 billion hand out from Janet yellen visiting her home land make it into your crypto wallet? if so understand.

If Null really got a billion in crypto from Yellen for poasting those few sentences, then I'm all for it. For only a million in crypto, I'd happily write a dozen long comments about how much I love trannydick.

 

[Dyn]

I suppose it's ironic that this situation forced Russia into position where they have to sell oil and gas to chinks and pajeets for a fraction of market price, pissing away precious resources just to retain some "friends" and maintain some income.

Russia can afford to be poor, their people are used to it and their power structure can weather a lot more unhappiness and unpopularity than western countries can. The gas isn't about their money, it's about their global power. As long as they have a button they can push that makes Germans freeze to death, they can get away with a lot. The second they lose that the EU is going to start dragging their sweaty balls all over Russia's face at every opportunity, and being constantly humiliated on the world stage is going to be lot more threatening to a government like Putin's than the economy tanking.

 

[DumbDude43]

Zelensky's election was part of why I left in 2019.

this is interesting, can you elaborate on that?
i have no idea what platform he ran on, what/who he represents, or how he differs from the previous regime (poroshenko) and its positions, all i know is that he was a TV clown who got into politics as a joke except at some point it was no longer a joke and then suddenly he was running the country

 

[Foltest]

Ukraine General Staff put out statment that they have caused 148k russian causalities (killed, wounded,mia or pow)


snippet from article:

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said this in its latest update published on Facebook.
Moreover, Ukrainian defenders destroyed 3,385 Russian main battle tanks (including 4 in the past day), 6,621 armored combat vehicles (+6), 2,380 artillery systems, 475 multiple launch rocket systems, 247 anti-aircraft warfare systems, 300 warplanes ()+1, 288 helicopters, 2,048 tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (+11), 873 cruise missiles, 18 warships/boats, 5,248 vehicles and fuel trucks (+6), and 230 pieces of special equipment.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3675645-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-climbs-to-148690.html

https://archive.ph/SImzF#selection-675.0-694.0

 

[Null]

this is interesting, can you elaborate on that?

He is Jewish.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

As long as they have a button they can push that makes Germans freeze to death, they can get away with a lot.

Except that they don't, as we can clearly see.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Zelensky's election was part of why I left in 2019.

Honestly: if Poroshenko didn't give free candies I don't see where Zelensky is worse than Poroshenko.

Aims for Moscow military forces are unclear. Even if in a miracle they will capture whole Donetsk and Lughansk oblasts they will still need to capture Zaphoroze and Kherson to just control what they proclaimed is now in ruzzian faggotariation. Huh, I don't see any viable options to go to Kherson for Putins army.

What they want to use against Leopards II, T-72 and so one is uncertain, in this thread was posted evidence that they are sending BTR-50 (vehicle from early 1950s, based on tank from late 1940s) to units. Moscow still has hope that NATO will lost will to support Ukraine (yes, sure) and after taking another small town in nowhere war will be over.

Both sides have to small numbers of KIA to just blood to end. This war seriously isn't a war like world war I when countries just killed half of generation (and they was still able to conduct war).

But, objectives for both sides as I think:

1/ Objectives of Kiev:

- they will try to reenact Kiev counteroffensive and Kharkiv/Kherson counteroffensive. So they now working on using what they get already/will arrive in next weeks that has longer effective disstance than ussed before HIMARS ammo to scrap enemies logistics and then make a medium sized mechanized offensive as previous.

- aims of such offensive are hard to tell. I trully don't like idea of offensive towards Azov Sea (if successfull it will be sentence of death for forces on Crimea but is is risky). North Luhansk will be easier and less risky but with no operational or strategic major gains. I like to see a offensive into proper ruzzialand, mostly because I count that this will be so massive shock that Moscow will start to retrat from all other directions and will accept 1991 borders just to end shitshow.

But what will try Ukraine is hard to tell. Probably something towards Azov Sea, not neccessary to reach it.

2/ Objectives of Moscow:

Honestly - when war begain I was so fuckin' shocked that they started war with no chances of strategic gain, started it with so small forces and so one. But I think they are two reasons why Putin continues this show:

- firstly they have no option to withdrawn from it at this moment without massive internal shitshow ('you are telling us that few villages was worth lives of thousands soldiers AND destruction of trade? in that villages is alien space ship, right? RIGHT?'). Only hope for Putin to avoid internal crisis is to win this war (more like only hope for CWC to don't be homeless is to win million bucks in lottery or so).

- secondly they still have hope that after capturing Bakhmut/Kremina/other town for some reasons both NATO and Ukraine will state negotiations about neutrality of Ukraine. This is they only objective that isn't pure fatnasy (on this moment chances for pro-russian gov. in Kiev just don't exist and will not come back in next two or more generations).

 

[DumbDude43]

Russia can afford to be poor, their people are used to it and their power structure can weather a lot more unhappiness and unpopularity than western countries can. The gas isn't about their money, it's about their global power. As long as they have a button they can push that makes Germans freeze to death, they can get away with a lot. The second they lose that the EU is going to start dragging their sweaty balls all over Russia's face at every opportunity, and being constantly humiliated on the world stage is going to be lot more threatening to a government like Putin's than the economy tanking.

in that case the decision to go to war over it backfired horribly though, it caused eurofags to start separating themselves from russian exports as hard and fast as possible. now they'll end up cutting all ties to russia much much quicker than they would have over whatever oil and gas ukraine could have offered otherwise.

He is Jewish.

dangerously based answer

 

[WhiteNight]

I like to see a offensive into proper ruzzialand, mostly because I count that this will be so massive shock that Moscow will start to retrat from all other directions and will accept 1991 borders just to end shitshow.

That would indeed be satisfying and remind Russia that this isn't a game and FAFO, but unfortunately it would lose western support.

in that case the decision to go to war over it backfired horribly though, it caused eurofags to start separating themselves from russian exports as hard and fast as possible. now they'll end up cutting all ties to russia much much quicker than they would have over whatever oil and gas ukraine could have offered otherwise.

Euros won't pass up cheap gas forever, especially if the economy keeps worsening. Possibly within Putin's lifetime, they'll decide Russia has been punished enough, live and let live, time to accept reality, and return to the Russian fuel teat. Even if Russia is occupying half of Ukraine and the new LoC is right up to Kyiv. I expect that's what Putin is counting on.

 

[DumbDude43]

Euros won't pass up cheap gas forever, especially if the economy keeps worsening. Possibly within Putin's lifetime, they'll decide Russia has been punished enough, live and let live, time to accept reality, and return to the Russian fuel teat. Even if Russia is occupying half of Ukraine and the new LoC is right up to Kyiv. I expect that's what Putin is counting on.

i don't believe that. you really underestimate how much euros do not like having a major war on their continent. they are extremely upset about it, they will NOT let this go for economic benefits.
they were willing to ignore crimea because there was almost zero violence involved, they were even willing to mostly ignore donbas because it was pretty low intensity fighting, and because it was looking like it was slowly fizzling out and turning into a frozen conflict like transnistria, and they can live with that.
but now it's fundamentally different, now we're looking at a war with a six figure death toll, with massive destruction and devastation the likes of which have not been seen in europe since the 1940s. this is a serious shock, a real brutal wake up call, this is not something they will simply let go like you say.

 

[Dyn]

in that case the decision to go to war over it backfired horribly though, it caused eurofags to start separating themselves from russian exports as hard and fast as possible.

I don't think it did. The EU countries are virtue signalling about cutting imports and they're getting puff pieces written about it, but Germany's still importing something like 25% of their gas from Russia, they're only managing to get by on that because they stockpiled extra before they announced they'd be cutting imports, and they're looking pretty likely to suffer a severe energy crisis and power rationing going into the next winter, and I don't think they have any viable plans on changing that.

If the west had any realistic way of cutting Russia out without their governments collapsing under an energy crisis, they'd have done that long before the war.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

severe energy crisis and power rationing going into the next winter

Someone was saying something simillar in last september.

If the west had any realistic way of cutting Russia out without their governments collapsing under an energy crisis, they'd have done that long before the war.

No one was expecting that Putin is so retarded he will start a war with NATO. It was like, IDK, something so fuckin illogic like MExico joining Axis powers in 1944 and 'invading' Texas

Shit happened, so EU is driving away from ruzzian gas and oil. Probably it will take some time and money to cut all off, but EU has money, technology and so one to replace ruzzian trade. But ruzzia didn't have a option to sell enough and transport enough oil and especially gas to China and India to remove euromoney from their balance.

Before any gov. in EU will collapse they will nto be any ruzzia.

 

[DumbDude43]

If the west had any realistic way of cutting Russia out without their governments collapsing under an energy crisis, they'd have done that long before the war.

no they wouldn't. russia was not seen as a political enemy before the war, so there was no reason to cut ties in the first place. that has changed now.

they're looking pretty likely to suffer a severe energy crisis and power rationing going into the next winter, and I don't think they have any viable plans on changing that.

exact same thing was said about this winter, but nothing beyond a price spike actually happened. no supply shortages, no rationing, no crisis. and for the next winter they have even more time to prepare.
russia does not have a monopoly on hydrocarbons, it never did, it was merely the most convenient option. cutting them out is not an impossibility, merely an inconvenience.

 

[MG-34]

this is interesting, can you elaborate on that?
i have no idea what platform he ran on, what/who he represents, or how he differs from the previous regime (poroshenko) and its positions, all i know is that he was a TV clown who got into politics as a joke except at some point it was no longer a joke and then suddenly he was running the country

He was a pretty weak handed bitch compared to Poroshenko. If I'm not mistaken he also supported anti holocaust denial/antisemitism laws and wanted to walk back Poroshenko's pro-firearm ownership reforms, that is until this war started. I doubt it affected Null but He terminated a few programs aimed to defend against Russia such as long range missiles and tank refribishment as well as wanted Azov Regiment to turn in any military ordinance not on controlled inventory rosters (ie trophy rifles and machineguns).

 

[Dyn]

russia was not seen as a political enemy before the war

Dude they nerve gassed England. We were in a proxy-war with them over Syria. They used to send nuclear bomber wings into Sweden and then call them back last-second to psyche people out. They've been the enemy a long, long time.

exact same thing was said about this winter, but nothing beyond a price spike actually happened. no supply shortages, no rationing, no crisis. and for the next winter they have even more time to prepare.
russia does not have a monopoly on hydrocarbons, it never did, it was merely the most convenient option. cutting them out is not an impossibility, merely an inconvenience.

A price hike of 40% is pretty serious for politicians who need to be relected.