Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Meh123]

At this point it's becoming painfully clear that Ukraine has already lost the war, and what we're seeing now are the death throes of a collapsing country. From desperate terror attacks on civilians to impotently lashing out at their own allies, these are clear signs of an imminent complete collapse. This is Berlin in 1945, and the Red Army is on the outskirts.

Done as a functioning country yes, but that just leaves a country-sized NATO-staffed military camp where it used to be. The entire point of the war was to prevent that from happening, so that's hardly a victory for Russia, either.

I think Mearsheimer predicted that either Russia can make a sensible peace agreement with UA or they'll have to go in and wreck the country militarily. Probably the russians will try to do away with the zelinski regime and install a pupet that will do whatever told to do, and get out all NATO forces.

I realize that I am treading dangerously close to getting booted out of the thread in favor of the other camp, but this is an issue I cannot ignore because it spells decades of future tensions and paves the way for a WW III scenario. Thankfully, the EU is nowhere close to forcing Russia into a Treaty of Versailles 2.0, but the peace settlement with Ukraine must be damn good to prevent it from happening.

We shouldn't have to agree on everything, that's mindless cultist mentality. I don't mind being downvoted for asking for sources when people start spreading rumors either, someone has to call out stupidity when it happens, or this tread will degrade into an echo chamber.

Anyway, that xenodude got booted finally? It's so boring in the other thread that they get back here to shitpost..

By the way, Ukraine is also supposed to have elections in March, 2024. You reckon Zelensky gives himself emergency powers and stays where he is or retains his seat via the totally true and honest democratic process?

Didn't he done away already with any and all political opposition?

Victor Orban floated a rather lulzy idea of a new miiltary alliance he called "NATO without the US". The bongs and the butthurt belt will never agree to that, but France, Portugal and Germany actually might.

Orbán sometimes have good ideas. Problem is his feudalistic approach to hungary's government - he is king, he has his vassals and yes-men, and the rest are his serfs.

I already mentioned this (not here), and it would do good for both the US and EU countries. The EU couldn't rely on free protection, and the US couldn't bark in every EU business because of the free gibs.

Well, it's official. Even NPC news are admitting it, same thing I just said. NATO has to either go all-in (resulting in mutual destruction), or suffer a loss in Ukraine and focus on Taiwan instead while they still can.

That is a pretty optimistic assessment of NATO capabilities. It wouldn't be a fun encounter for anyone, but NATO is behind on everything currently..

Are you prepared for Fallout IRL? I am! No damn muties are gonna get me!

I hope it won't have microtransactions and bugs like the last installment

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Are you prepared for Fallout IRL? I am! No damn muties are gonna get me!

Maybe Atom RPG instead, it was funnier. New Fallouts after NV are kinda meh.

Also, for some news:

Is Putin winning? The world order is changing in his favour

‘This is not about Ukraine at all, but the world order,’ said Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, a month after the invasion. ‘The unipolar world is irretrievably receding into the past … A multi-polar world is being born.’ The US is no longer the world’s policeman, in other words – a...

www.spectator.co.uk

Is Putin winning? The world order is changing in his favour | The Spe…

archived 2 Mar 2023 08:05:01 UTC

archive.ph

Is Putin winning? The world order is changing in his favour​

‘This is not about Ukraine at all, but the world order,’ said Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, a month after the invasion. ‘The unipolar world is irretrievably receding into the past … A multi-polar world is being born.’ The US is no longer the world’s policeman, in other words – a message that resonates in countries that have long been suspicious of American power. The West’s core coalition may remain solid, but it has failed to win over many of the countries that refused to pick sides. Moscow’s diplomatic mission to build ties and hone a narrative over the past decade has paid dividends.

Look at Africa. In March last year, 25 African states out of 54 abstained or didn’t vote in a UN motion condemning the invasion, despite huge pressure from western powers. Their refusal to side clearly with Ukraine was testament to Russia’s ongoing diplomatic efforts in the developing world.

A year ago, Naledi Pandor, South Africa’s foreign minister, urged Russia to withdraw. After Lavrov’s visit a few weeks ago, Pandor was asked if she had repeated this sentiment to her Russian counterpart. It had been ‘appropriate’ last year, she said, but to repeat it now ‘would make me appear quite simplistic and infantile’. Pandor then lauded the ‘growing economic bilateral relationship’ between Pretoria and Moscow, and the two countries marked the war’s anniversary with joint military exercises.

That is a pretty optimistic assessment of NATO capabilities. It wouldn't be a fun encounter for anyone, but NATO is behind on everything currently..

They are behind on production of everything and have dwindling supplies, but if the conflict between Russia and NATO goes nuclear, the destruction will be mutual. There are enough jokes about rusty nukes on both sides, but I doubt anyone wants to actually bet their lives on it. Overall I think sober heads will prevail as most people don't want to see nuclear destruction, and NATO will withdraw from Ukraine.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

Are you prepared for Fallout IRL? I am! No damn muties are gonna get me!

I'm too lazy to photoshop Zelensky with a cowboy hat going "Another Oblast needs our help" so just pretend it's here.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

They'll keep doubling down until a certain point, yes. But the reason I'm saying that Ukraine lost the war is simple. Even if Russia were to withdraw every single soldier right now from the disputed territories, is Ukraine going to survive as a country on its own afterwards? West isn't going to rebuild it, they can't keep their own infrastructure running.

Consider that a large percentage of the population has fled, vast majority of infrastructure is destroyed, remaining infrastructure is unmaintained and will fail any moment, and the country is in debt to the west up to their eyeballs and have no idea how to pay it, unless they get it from Russia as reparations. That's why even if Russia were to withdraw right now, Ukraine would still have lost the war. They're done as a country, all thanks to America's efforts.

Those 3000 transformers will turn the tide, bruv.

 

[The Foxtrot]

I'm too lazy to photoshop Zelensky with a cowboy hat going "Another Oblast needs our help" so just pretend it's here.

I think it'd be as simple as putting his face over Preston Garvey's from any screenshot of him in Fallout 4.

But yeah, that's about what Zalinsky's doing.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Those 3000 transformers will turn the tide, bruv.

2999 transformers now. This one is out of commission. Imagine the smell, ew.

 

[The Foxtrot]

Maybe Atom RPG instead, it was funnier. New Fallouts after NV are kinda meh.

I fucking love ATOM RPG. That is how you do a true "spiritual successor" in general 1), and 2) to the Fallout games in particular. The ATOM devs, it seems, actually understand what made the OG Fallouts work, but they also put their own twist on it and didn't just rely on pointless cameos and references. They took a pretty unique* setting, and actually explored it in a way I don't think many other games (at least in the West) have done. They actually thought through their setting and set it up as if they were really exploring a "What If?" in history, while having a good mix of pulpy fun and pretty serious commentary.

Also, even in the Post-WW3 USSR, Sam Hyde still carries out his dastardly deeds!


*Post-WW3 Soviet Union based in real-world politics and science, trying to stick closer to reality.

 

[Butterschmalz]

In the first video, it looks like they sent a musical band up to the roof? Guitar, some sort of brass, and ...bass?

Spoiler: Where have I seen that before?

View attachment 4678070

I think thats a Wagner gimmick. In every promo video they are pretending to play classical instruments like they are real musicians.

 

[Romeo]

I realize that I am treading dangerously close to getting booted out of the thread in favor of the other camp, but this is an issue I cannot ignore because it spells decades of future tensions and paves the way for a WW III scenario.

I doubt anyone, from jannies to the most pro-Russian poster of the thread, will be angry at you for posting stuff that does not show the Russian war effort in a positive light. As long as your goal is to inform the posters in the thread that belongs to the rules that dear leader set for us, I think it’s fine.

For example, Generation is a pro-Ukrainian poster from the other thread. However, he was curious to hear out the Russian perspective on some issues. I think he disagreed with all the points the posters of the thread gave him, but he wasn’t hostile and didn’t sperg or create a slapfight.

However, if you’re like the retard Gender: Xenomorph who posts the most outrageous stuff such as the reason why there are many Russians in Crimea is because of ethnic cleansing just to rifle up the thread into slapfighting, then yea, he’ll be banned. He’s not here to have his mind changed or to see the other perspective, he wants to make people angry, which the thread didn’t fall for lol.

For me, I include a lot of the failures the Russian military goes through along with its successes in this thread in updates I posted. This includes the failures of the Russian Army in fronts like Vuhledar and Bilohorivka. If you’re to going to support the Russian side in an echo-chamber, it’s better to be informed in all matters of the war to have a more accurate depiction on how the Russians are doing in the battlefield. That way, you won’t have any surprises on why the Russian Army is what it is right now from misinformation.

So honestly, if you have something to share that shows the Russian military in a bad light but with the intent to inform on how it would affect the nation’s sovereignty and the future of the West as a result, feel free.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

The truly revealing thing is that NATO has been forced to show how much gas they really have in the tank.

Based upon what we know, it looks like NATO had about 6-18 (more likely 12-14) months of munitions and material to sustain a near-peer conflict (at a heavy op tempo) before we gave all of the surplus stocks to Ukraine.

The crazy part is that back in March of 2022 if you had told anyone that the single most sought after military munition would be 155mm shells, they'd laugh at you.

The only thing that gives me comfort is that the PLA is shitting bricks and realizing they have miscalculated just like everyone else about how future conflicts will shake out. This has certainly chilled their plans for Taiwan.

 

[The Foxtrot]

The only thing that gives me comfort is that the PLA is shitting bricks and realizing they have miscalculated just like everyone else about how future conflicts will shake out. This has certainly chilled their plans for Taiwan.

How have they done that? Genuinely curious.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

If there's one thing I'm 100% sure the PLA is doing right now, it's building more ammunition factories.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

How have they done that? Genuinely curious.

Given how the Chinese have been trying to model GWOT style expeditionary capabilites and embracing maneuver warfare, I don't think they were expecting parts of the Donbass to turn into a moonscape like Passchendaele.

If there's one thing I'm 100% sure the PLA is doing right now, it's building more ammunition factories.

And that's one thing that the West can't do quickly enough. It will save the PLA time if they follow the Russian doctrine of "never throw anything away"

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Given how the Chinese have been trying to model GWOT style expeditionary capabilites and embracing maneuver warfare, I don't think they were expecting parts of the Donbass to turn into a moonscape like Passchendale.


And that's one thing that the West can't do quickly enough. It will save them time if they follow the Russian doctrine of "never throw anything away"

US doctrine never really accounted for using up that much ammunition, it focused too much on fighting goat herders in the desert in the last 30 years.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Nobody said anything about concentration camps.

But that's what happens when Russia takes over a territory, or are you saying this has never ever happened in the history of Russia?

Why are you arguing with me? I literally confirmed that's what happened. Those artillery shells didn't make themselves.

 

[LurkTrawl]

Overall I think sober heads will prevail as most people don't want to see nuclear destruction, and NATO will withdraw from Ukraine.

Yeah, okay. If these "sober heads" existed this wouldn't even be happening in the first place.

 

[apolloday]

This is kind of a stupid question at this point, but what is NATO actually trying to achieve in this war?

 

[Useful_Mistake]

This is kind of a stupid question at this point, but what is NATO actually trying to achieve in this war?

Allegedly a weak Russia

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Yeah, okay. If these "sober heads" existed this wouldn't even be happening in the first place.

I know, I know. But people tend to cool down when the threat gets more real. I hope, at least.

This is kind of a stupid question at this point, but what is NATO actually trying to achieve in this war?

Their stated goal was the destabilization and balkanization of Russia, possibly the installation of their own puppet instead of Putin. Which for obvious reasons rubbed China the wrong way, something about not wanting a destabilized nuclear superpower right on their border, imagine that.

Edit: Here's the report that states it.

Nonviolent Ways the United States Could Exploit Russian Vulnerabilities

Despite its vulnerabilities and anxieties, Russia remains a formidable opponent in a few key domains. What non-violent, cost-imposing measures could the United States pursue to stress Russia's economy, its military, and the regime's political standing at home and abroad?

www.rand.org

Overextending and Unbalancing Russia: Assessing the Impact of Cost-Im…

archived 4 Nov 2022 14:38:58 UTC

archive.ph

 

[LurkTrawl]

I know, I know. But people tend to cool down when the threat gets more real. I hope, at least.

Mass depopulation, wartime martial law enabling drastic reworking of government, rationing, private-public lines being erased entirely to fuel a war effort, politicians given the go-ahead for mass censorship, militarization/deputization of loyal bugmen as "patriots" against any who would cry foul at election results... and more I'm probably not thinking of...

WW3 seems to be really, really good if you're a psychopathic dictatorial retard with a batshit insane plan that for whatever reason needs to be accomplished by 2030, whose name ends in -aub.