Catholic priests should not have to report child abuse revealed during confession, Vermont bishop says - Why would Catholic priests not want to report kiddy diddling? Truly it's a mystery.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-vermont-catholic-church-opposes-child-abuse-reporting-bill-20230303-fss5a6hfibanhgkwfos5sjtsrq-story.html

Catholic priests should not have to report child abuse revealed durin…

archived 6 Mar 2023 03:18:05 UTC

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The head of the Roman Catholic Church in Vermont told state lawmakers Friday that the church opposes a bill that would remove clergy exemptions for reporting cases of child abuse and neglect to police.

Bishop Christopher Coyne, who has served as the bishop of the Diocese of Burlington since 2015, testified before the Vermont Senate Judiciary Committee that the church’s rite of confession must remain confidential — even when cases of child abuse are revealed.

“A priest faces excommunication if he discloses the communication made to him during confession,” Coyne said. “And the sacramental seal of confession is the worldwide law of the Catholic Church, not just the diocese of Burlington, Vermont.”

The Diocese of Burlington serves all 14 counties of the state of Vermont.

According to current state law, members of the clergy are obligated to report abuse and neglect, but it adds an exemption for when they’re acting as spiritual advisers or hearing a confession.

But a bill introduced by state Sen. Richard Sears, a Democrat who has worked for years to fight child abuse, seeks to do away with those exemptions. State lawmakers are currently holding hearings on the proposal before putting it to a vote.

The bill “crosses a Constitutional protective element of our religious faith: the right to worship as we see fit,” Coyne testified Friday.

But he noted that when priests receive any information on child abuse or neglect outside the rite of confession, they are encouraged to report it.

Vermont is one of 33 states with exemptions for clergy in laws trequire some professionals — such as teachers and physicians — to report alleged cases of child sex abuse or neglect to authorities.statutes,” he said.

And while protecting vulnerable children is essential, “disregarding fundamental religious rights is unnecessary,” he added.

Vermont is one of 33 states with exemptions for clergy in laws that require some professionals — such as teachers and physicians — to report alleged cases of child sex abuse or neglect to authorities.

 

[Mothra1988]

I said tell me the history. Not show me a wikipedia article.
The point is to show what YOU know. Genius.

Also here if you're going to be lazy: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=You're+an+autistic+retard

The history of the Catholic Church covering up child sex abuse is outlined in the article. You can click and read it. I don't know why you are complaining. It's factually correct.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

They're not even disclosing confessions of serial killers' deeds.

 

[Mothra1988]

They're not even disclosing confessions of serial killers' deeds.

That's pretty horrifying.

 

[derpherp2]

The history of the Catholic Church covering up child sex abuse is outlined in the article. You can click and read it. I don't know why you are complaining. It's factually correct.

I'm not complaining, merely stating the requirements for your reply. That you failed to complete.

And are then going to be surprised when no one takes you seriously when you bitch about the history of catholic pederasts. When you yourself apparently do not fucking know. Unless you're implying your knowledge is based on one sentence in the fucking wikipedia article in which case. lmao.

Meaning your opposition and fervent histrionics of this topic is less about a rational approach and more about an emotional response.
But then that would beg the question what the response is in relation to. I think I know. Hold on.

Ah yes because the pedophillic priest are totally only catholics.
I'm not going to read your retarded pamphlet. I'm done reading pamphlets.

But I do find it funny when the religious morally aggrandize.
Also you know. You're butthurt. Lmao.

You bitched about mormons for similiar reasons as @WelperHelper99 can attest to, this was never about morals for you. As can be attested to the simple logic of "if nobody reports about pedophiles they support pedophiles" as your claim a paradox of an idea that you apparently do not think applies to you. This was always about people shitting on you, and you thinking you can get "even" by putting random-ass articles on A&N for some desperate asspats. The fact that you're focusing less on jason smith and more about catholicism also proves this.

The irony about all of this is that crybullying is one of the most common method female rapists use to get their way.

 

[Mothra1988]

I'm not complaining, merely stating the requirements for your reply. That you failed to complete.

And are then going to be surprised when no one takes you seriously when you bitch about the history of catholic pederasts. When you yourself apparently do not fucking know. Unless you're implying your knowledge is based on one sentence in the fucking wikipedia article in which case. lmao.

Meaning your opposition and fervent histrionics of this topic is less about a rational approach and more about an emotional response.
But then that would beg the question what the response is. I think I know. Hold on.

Here, I'll repost it for you. Please click through read the article this time. It contains 37,000 words on the history of child sexual abuse and child sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church. All the information you seek is contained within:

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[derpherp2]

Here, I'll repost it for you. Please click through read the article this time. It contains 37,000 words on the history of child sexual abuse and child sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church. All the information you seek is contained within:

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 4709196

I can tell you're trying so hard to restrain yourself right now.
But maybe don't repeat your own posts in your own thread. If you want to pretend to have a civilized discussion.

 

[SuperShibuyaFighter]

I agree all pedos deserve to be called out, but at the same time @Mothra1988 is an anti religious Reddit fedora tipper MATI and is trying to prove religious pedos are a much worse problem than teachers and faggots.

 

[Mothra1988]

I can tell you're trying so hard to restrain yourself right now.
But maybe don't repeat your own posts in your own thread. If you want to pretend to have a civilized discussion.

I repeated it becuase I answered your question completely. I'm not going to compose my own 37,000 word history of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church.

but at the @Mothra1988 is an anti religious Reddit fedora tipper MATI and is trying to prove religious pedos are a much worse problem than teachers and faggots.

1. Stay on topic
2. I'm Christian and I hate Reddit. I'm not "anti-religous."
3. Teachers, etc. that mess with kids can get the rope too.

 

[derpherp2]

I repeated it becuase I answered your question completely. I'm not going to compose my own 37,000 word history of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church.

This is the fun part by the way. I'm stating this because you need a handicap, apparently.












What was my question.

 

[Neo-Nazi Rich Evans]

The whole situation seems like it could go in a lot of different ways.

If someone comes to confession and admits they've been abusing a child, I imagine most peoples initial thought is "Yea, they should be reported." and I agree with that, but is the reporting also mandatory if someone confides in a priest and says they're being abused? A lot of people feel guilty about being sexually assaulted and that could be something a particularly religious person could feel like they need to repent for, and then that opens the door to an already traumatized child having to deal with police and child services and all that shit.

Idk, I'm not religious enough to know about confessional confidentiality, but in the end my thoughts are always going to be with the children affected.

im an atheist so take that with what i say but i do feel like a confessional should be a private thing between a priest and the person confessing. forcing priests to report criminal behavior confessed to them seems like a bad path to go down for a few reasons. but i do feel that in the case of a child reporting abuse something should be done. i think a middle ground would be that the priest has to talk to the child about options to report it. counsel them on what they can do and let them know that if the child wants to the priest can report on their behalf. i think it is a sticky situation.

in related note last year i did watch a movie along these lines of a priest struggling between telling of a crime and keeping confessionals. it is called I Confess. it's actually not bad, i would recommend it if you got some time to kill.

 

[Mothra1988]

Try harder with your de-rail attempts please.

 

[Balalaika Z Bree]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be between the person confessing and God, through the priest.
The idea is to save souls by letting them repent and be absolved. Hard to do that if you know the priest will contact police if you confess to a crime.

They're not even disclosing confessions of serial killers' deeds.

Exactly.

It's factually correct.

It's Wikipedia, a long enough article, are you really claiming it's entirely free from error?

 

[derpherp2]

Try harder with your de-rail attempts please.

I'm assuming since you're still negrating you don't know. I'm also bored of waiting for your nonanswers. I have better, yet similiar things to do than helping the mentally ill.

So you don't know the question that you apparently answered.

I established you don't know the topic of your own thread.

You can't even figure out what the solution to your problem is. Because you don't even know what the problem is.

But most of all. You're still butthurt. lmao.

There, maybe this reddit format will help you COMPREHEND why no one is taking you seriously.

 

[Mothra1988]

i think a middle ground would be that the priest has to talk to the child about options to report it. counsel them on what they can do and let them know that if the child wants to the priest can report on their behalf. i think it is a sticky situation.

There are many reasons why the onus should not be on the child to solve their problems when they are being targeted by adult perpetrators. The adults they confide in should be responsible enough to help them. I don't know why it's even a question whether or not someone who claims to be a figure of morality wouldn't do everything in their power to save that child and prevent them from experiencing future abuse or even worse. Imagine being this helpless, telling a priest and then no help comes to you.

 

[derpherp2]

There are many reasons why the onus should not be on the child to solve their problems when they are being targeted by adult perpetrators. The adults they confide in should be responsible enough to help them. I don't know why it's even a question whether or not someone who claims to be a figure of morality wouldn't do everything in their power to save that child and prevent them from experiencing future abuse or even worse. Imagine being this helpless, telling a priest and then no help comes to you.

That's not what you've been saying though is it?

Yeah, it should be everyone's duty to stop it. Everyone with a conscience and basic morality that is. People that don't report child sexual abuse are culpable in the child sexual abuse that occurs that they did not act to prevent.

You really do not get the fucking difference. Do you.
Like I've been saying. Your persuasiveness is shit. Your spite is far better.

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be between the person confessing and God, through the priest.
The idea is to save souls by letting them repent and be absolved. Hard to do that if you know the priest will contact police if you confess to a crime.

Exactly.


It's Wikipedia, a long enough article, are you really claiming it's entirely free from error?

Fun little factoid.
She's a Christian and her defense against christian pedophiles is "BUT MUH CHURCH NO PEDOPHILES"
Another fun little factoid. Click the wikipedia she had - ctrl-f "Christian"
Realize that the statistic she claims has a big percentage of it as her own religion.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Religion is not the state. Catholicism is not the state. If you want them to be part of it, be my guest, I'm not complaining.

What I mean is that a religion cannot be absolutely subjected by the law or work for it. Sure, if a priest knows of a crime to happen, he's as obligated as any other citizen to report it. Specially if a fellow priest is doing the crime.

But what morons don't understand is that confession is not some random act, it's a SACRAMENT of the Catholic Church, next to Baptism, Communion, Confirmation, Priesthood, Marriage, and Anointing of the Sick. These rituals cannot be forced by the Church and they shouldn't be either forced or stopped by the state either.

Confession requires an specific ritual that can only be made by a priest in order to happen. If you want to be pardoned, not only you need to repent: you need to make amends. Meaning, unless you want to spend eternity in hell, you need to repent and confess your crime to justice. If you tell the sinner that you will accuse them, you're manipulating a sacrament and that's forbidden by the church too. You cannot force a sacrament on people. If a priest knows that someone's been forced into it, he's in obligation to not going on with it.

 

[Mothra1988]

Exactly.

The fact that a Catholic priest wouldn't act to stop a serial killer does not reflect well on that priest or the institution of Catholicism as a whole. I have yet to see a Biblical rationale for why the priest can't report crimes like child molestation and murder to the police.

It's Wikipedia, a long enough article, are you really claiming it's entirely free from error?

You're free to point out any inaccuracies you find. I don't think this article has any though. The history of sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church hierarchy is extremely well known. I shouldn't even have had to post a source for something that is so common knowledge. The sex abuse and cover ups by the Catholic Church moving priests around, etc. who continued to victimize more children was one of the biggest news stories of the past 50 years. It's like disputing the idea that JFK was assassinated.

 

[vomitusdeux]

It's like disputing the idea that JFK was assassinated.

JFK wasn't assassinated. Like the moon landing it was faked.

 

[Balalaika Z Bree]

The fact that a Catholic priest wouldn't act to stop a serial killer does not reflect well on that priest or the institution of Catholicism as a whole. I have yet to see a Biblical rationale for why the priest can't report crimes like child molestation and murder to the police.

I am not an expert, but even I know that a Bible alone approach is not the tradition of the Catholic Church. A priest is not free to break the seal of the confession, if that does not reflect well on the institution or the individual, but helps to save souls, so be it. As was already mentioned by Tasty Tatty if the person is truly repentant, they will confess their crimes and make amends to the best of their ability anyway, no breaking of the seal needed, no need to criminalize faithful priests obeying their God through his Holy Church.

You're free to point out any inaccuracies you find. I don't think this article has any though. The history of sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church hierarchy is extremely well known. I shouldn't even have had to post a source for something that is so common knowledge. The sex abuse and cover ups by the Catholic Church moving priests around, etc. who continued to victimize more children was one of the biggest news stories of the past 50 years. It's like disputing the idea that JFK was assassinated.

So you don't think it has any errors, that's different. I was just contrasting the mess and blatantly biased site with your claim of it being "factually correct". I didn't bother to click through, perhaps it really is error free, perhaps it's riddled with mistakes, it makes no difference, the site has little credibility.
I'm not denying the abuses and disappointing, tragic, and perverse decisions taken, particularly by those responsible for protecting the vulnerable. It certainly was a major news story, meanwhile other professions/vocations (like teaching, coaching etc.) had horrifying case after case and get far less media attention, with a handful of exceptions of course.

 

[Mothra1988]

I am not an expert, but even I know that a Bible alone approach is not the tradition of the Catholic Church. A priest is not free to break the seal of the confession, if that does not reflect well on the institution or the individual, but helps to save souls, so be it. As was already mentioned by Tasty Tatty if the person is truly repentant, they will confess their crimes and make amends to the best of their ability anyway, no breaking of the seal needed, no need to criminalize faithful priests obeying their God through his Holy Church.

If there's zero Biblical evidence for this rule and it's just a "tradition," I don't see why the pope can't make an exception for priests that act on their conscience and report those kinds of heinous crimes especially in light of the church's history of abuse. If that happened, there would be no need for legislation. The huge problem with this is people like child molesters and serial killers are almost guaranteed to act on their predatory instincts again, so the priest in this scenario would be condemning future children to be molested or people to be tortured and murdered. I can't really buy that as a moral stance at all.

So you don't think it has any errors, that's different. I was just contrasting the mess and blatantly biased site with your claim of it being "factually correct". I didn't bother to click through, perhaps it really is error free, perhaps it's riddled with mistakes, it makes no difference, the site has little credibility.
I'm not denying the abuses and disappointing, tragic, and perverse decisions taken, particularly by those responsible for protecting the vulnerable. It certainly was a major news story, meanwhile other professions/vocations (like teaching, coaching etc.) had horrifying case after case and get far less media attention, with a handful of exceptions of course.

It's not the GamerGate article or something that is being actively fought over. I haven't seen many cases of the maisntream reporting on Catholic child abuse cases being objected to on a factual basis, and those are the citations used in the article.