Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

If it can stop MG fire, its less dumb than you think. Might be the only thing Putin can build that's cheaper than an NLAW.
an old and obsolete tank is at the end of the day still a tank, so if you can get it in working condition you can probably still get some utility out of it.
the armor is obsolete against modern tanks and anti tank weapons, but it still deflects small arms fire and shrapnel perfectly fine.
the cannon is worthless against modern tanks too, but it can still punch holes in building walls and annihilate unarmored vehicles without issue (if it can hit its intended target lol)

probably the biggest downside would be the slow speed and horrendously bad fuel efficiency of 80+ year old engine designs, and reliability is probably not the best either with transmission systems and tracks that were made four generations ago.
A tank needs to do more than stop small arms fire though. Anti-armor is basically one of the main roles of a tank in the modern battlefield (from what I understand). If you want to provide infantry support, use an IFV.

The T-62M is probably the oldest they can get away with as far as tanks are concerned, and even that is stretching it as Ukraine gets its hands on more and more modern Western armor.
 
A tank needs to do more than stop small arms fire though. Anti-armor is basically one of the main roles of a tank in the modern battlefield (from what I understand). If you want to provide infantry support, use an IFV.

The T-62M is probably the oldest they can get away with as far as tanks are concerned, and even that is stretching it as Ukraine gets its hands on more and more modern Western armor.
Sure, but we were talking tankettes, not tanks, which Russia might very well be dumb enough to build considering a tiny-ass tractor that can stop .50 cal fire isn't exactly hard to make. A few of them got jury-rigged up in Syria, and I saw the inside of one that had an unmanned turret with the gunner using a gamepad to control it and a portable LCD screen and some sort of video camera to see outside. Probably better quality than anything Russia could make given their lack of access to Western consumer goods.
 
A tank needs to do more than stop small arms fire though. Anti-armor is basically one of the main roles of a tank in the modern battlefield (from what I understand). If you want to provide infantry support, use an IFV.

The T-62M is probably the oldest they can get away with as far as tanks are concerned, and even that is stretching it as Ukraine gets its hands on more and more modern Western armor.
For infantry support an obsolete tank will probably do about as well as any IFV that doesn't have significantly better sensors and FCS imo.
 
seriously niggers.png


T-80B's without ERA have in fact been spotted moving towards the front. Obr 1978, from what I can tell. Russian obviously.
 
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The current cope from our vatnik contingent is that the video is obviously fake. Because reasons.

(Thanks for the better archive)
Weren't the Russians supposed to be having great success rounding up and killing all the Banderites? We should be seeing dozens of videos like that. Whole platoons of Azov-Nazis shouting "Slava Ukraini" before being gunned down.

Oh nevermind, it makes the Hohols look too brave, we can't have that.

Zelenskyy has decided to "further strengthen" positions in Bakhmut.

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An interesting thing to say. A few days ago we thought they were finally giving up, now they're talking about pushing back. I do wonder how they plan to do such a thing. As I recall, there were rumours of a pincer attack a few days ago that didn't materialize.
 
Weakest and most degenerate Hohol
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Strongest and most based and tradpilled russian orthodox warrior

>Strongest and most based and tradpilled russian orthodox warrior


Remember early in the war when that one Ukrainian soldier (a low ranking officer iirc) ran off and fucked a tranny when he was supposed to be on duty?

His bros didn’t seem too happy about it tho. They beat up both him and the troon.
 
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Well, the M113 is from the 1960's. Only difference is the M113 has been a bitch and a half to find a replacement for because its as utilitarian and cost-effective as the Jeep. Can go just about anywhere and do just about anything and it won't break your budget. Hell, the US Army is using them in roles not expected to see direct combat such as mortar carrier and medevac, not to mention how many other nations still have it in front-line roles. The Australians and Israelis fucking love it considering it handles the deserts better than just about anything else in the world would.

Not sure if this was a simple reflection on old systems or a counter-point, but there is a huge difference between employing old ass systems as a battle taxi compared to using old ass systems for battle and offensive action

For battle taxis not much is needed lol, protection against shrapnel and small arms combined with mobility and space
 
For infantry support an obsolete tank will probably do about as well as any IFV that doesn't have significantly better sensors and FCS imo.
Maybe if they wanted to ship troops to the front line desant. Though maybe Russia will figure that's a great way to save on ERA.
And old tanks are being rolled out to make up for tank losses, not IFV losses.
>Strongest and most based and tradpilled russian orthodox warrior


Remember early in the war when that one Ukrainian soldier (a low ranking officer iirc) ran off and fucked a tranny when he was supposed to be on duty?

His bros didn’t seem too happy about it tho. They beat up both him and the troon.
I genuinely believe the Russian government's lip-service to Orthodoxy is a grift and propaganda tool, but tbh the "discussion" about what side is based and tradpilled is pointless and stupid. Both sides have their shares of doubtlessly devout Christians and degenerate atheists, neither side seems to be ruled by a particularly devout or religiously committed government (outside of some token grifting), and culture war BS is honestly the last thing the war is about (despite what vatniggers seem to think).

I am perhaps more pissed at Russia/Patriarch Kirill for actively corrupting the church into a mouthpiece for the Russian Government, I'm not going to pretend that Ukraine's goal is to save the church or whatever.
 
Not sure if this was a simple reflection on old systems or a counter-point, but there is a huge difference between employing old ass systems as a battle taxi compared to using old ass systems for battle and offensive action

For battle taxis not much is needed lol, protection against shrapnel and small arms combined with mobility and space
A bit of both, mostly. A cheap, reliable, multi-role tracked platform is pretty much the military's holy grail in terms of the capabilities it allows, which is why Uncle Sam (and the whole West, really) has struggled to come up with a replacement for the M113 because as Todd Howard might say, "It just works". The MT-LB is not that, which is why Russia had so many hulls in storage for them to mount those old turrets also in storage on, and why the entire thing is a hilarious joke, unlike the many M113's that have been successfully converted into weapons carriers of one sort or another.
 
Maybe if they wanted to ship troops to the front line desant. Though maybe Russia will figure that's a great way to save on ERA.
And old tanks are being rolled out to make up for tank losses, not IFV losses.

I genuinely believe the Russian government's lip-service to Orthodoxy is a grift and propaganda tool, but tbh the "discussion" about what side is based and tradpilled is pointless and stupid. Both sides have their shares of doubtlessly devout Christians and degenerate atheists, neither side seems to be ruled by a particularly devout or religiously committed government (outside of some token grifting), and culture war BS is honestly the last thing the war is about (despite what vatniggers seem to think).

I am perhaps more pissed at Russia/Patriarch Kirill for actively corrupting the church into a mouthpiece for the Russian Government, I'm not going to pretend that Ukraine's goal is to save the church or whatever.
It's not pointless to mock the ziggers for being hypocrites though. It's funny as fuck, actually. Moreover, there really isn't much hypocrisy on the Ukrainian side because they just want the invaders out and their land back. So it really doesn't matter how many "degenerate atheists" the Ukrainian military has.
 
You guys have probably heard about the new wrongthink laws in Russia, specifically "discreditation of Russian armed forces"
There's already been multiple cases where children who expressed anti-war sentiment are taken away from their parents, who's bearing responsibility for it as a result.
In this specific case, in the drawing class girl made a picture featuring Russian and Ukrainian flags, saying "No to war" and "Glory to Ukraine"
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Her teacher called the police, they summoned her father to school, they filed the complaint with other teachers as witnesses, then they were taken to police station. His house was "searched", they seized his cash among other things. Even FSB got involved over a fucking drawing. Absolutely horrifying shit.
You can read the full story here:

You're a bad parent for not brainwashing your child. Ziggers would want you to believe that this is somehow better than what's happening in American schools.

This was brought to my attention earlier today. Just when I think that I'm too tired to be any angrier, I'm instantly proven wrong.
This shit reminds me of the kids in the USSR who would end up orphans because their parents were "wreckers" or other made up shit. They would understandably turn to theft to feed themselves, then the NKVD would arrest and torture the kids. Force them to point out "co-conspirators", since there obviously was none the kids would point out random people to save their own hides. Why the fuck can Russia seemingly not have a non-psycho government outside Gorby and a few Tsars throughout history?

Slightly off topic but I would recommend reading The White Pill for a good history on the USSR and their faggot friends in the west. Michael Malice may be a retard in alot of fields but he backs up pretty much everything in that book with ironclad evidence.
 
Also as much as i enjoy the talk about T-34s and WW2 stuff, that wont happen.

Never be sure.

ruzzia recently (ok, five years ago) purchased two and a half dozen of T-34 from Laos. They also have few other T-34 used ona public ocasions like history events celebrations.

And... this shit is ALWAYS operated by actual military personel. They also on each 'tankodron' (something like olimpics, but with tanks) they use few T-34's.

It will be extreme stupid to send T-34 on frontline, but... this is ruzzia. Some idiot can think that using a one o 20 T-34 for propaganda on frontline ('we wuz kangz, I mean: we are fighting with nazis with equipment designed to fight nazis!').
 
The head Wagner guy is claiming the Russian military has "betrayed them" so it's safe to say that they are getting their shit pushed in by the superior weaponary Ukraine has but aren't allowed to retreat.

Basically, the Russian military brass simply doesn't understand how modern wars work.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they are getting their shit pushed in by superior weaponry as much much as Russian tubes aren't supporting them (talk shit about the army, they don't provide arty), they spent their supply getting as far as they did, and now they don't have the ammo to push further, and probably are having issues holding what they got.

This is that logistics shit we've been talking about. It doesn't do you much good if you can't keep the assault going or hold what you've taken.

an old and obsolete tank is at the end of the day still a tank, so if you can get it in working condition you can probably still get some utility out of it.
the armor is obsolete against modern tanks and anti tank weapons, but it still deflects small arms fire and shrapnel perfectly fine.
the cannon is worthless against modern tanks too, but it can still punch holes in building walls and annihilate unarmored vehicles without issue (if it can hit its intended target lol)

probably the biggest downside would be the slow speed and horrendously bad fuel efficiency of 80+ year old engine designs, and reliability is probably not the best either with transmission systems and tracks that were made four generations ago.
You got it there at the end:
Its a tank, but its vulnerable to RPG-7s, and its going to be sucking fuel.

Is more or less the conclusion I came to - they'd be more effective than a technical at any rate
This is the post: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/invasion-of-ukraine-news-megathread.113457/post-12900609

On the contrary: due to its lower mass than modern tanks, even relatively ancient ones like the t-62 or t-55, the t-34 would probably get more miles per gallon. I'd probably also think about the relative difficulty of modernizing them, possibly lacking mounting points for reactive armor or battery power for modern systems like thermal sights. There's probably also soft factors like ergonomics too.
Old tank vs. Technical is a doctrine question; the most effective armor is to be out of range. A technical would be able to move faster and require less supply.

Unless crew will be in need for service of their vehicle - probably it is easier to find someone who can do something with a technical than a T-34.
A tank needs to do more than stop small arms fire though. Anti-armor is basically one of the main roles of a tank in the modern battlefield (from what I understand). If you want to provide infantry support, use an IFV.
You can say "it doesn't matter if its from 1920 or 2020 if it hits you" but that really covers up a point.
Sure, if you are in a trench and T-62 rolls up and starts blasting, you wish you had your own T-62 to blast back. But this really discounts how shitty a T-62's sights are, and the drain on Russian logisitics. That is, while life sucks if you have a 115mm aimed at you, its going to be inaccurate, needing a separate shell that isn't used in anything else, and attached to a heavy, fuel guzzling vehicle. That tank also needs spare parts and more time under the wrench; putting that tank into position cost a disproportionate amount.

Now yes, there's a Russian modernization program that's putting better optics on their T-62s, and it seems to actually be doing it, but its still hardly modern.

Firstly, the the T-62 uses a different caliber gun, logistics have never been a Soviet strong point - one of the reasons T-72 doctrine at the start of the war was "cram the crew compartment with rounds" - the crew doesn't know when they're getting more.

I don't personally consider it in poor taste to share the video, as if I was the dude getting shot I'd want people to see me going out on my feet with those as my last words. But that's just me and nobody's obligated to watch.
I don't think its in poor taste, but do appreciate spoilering it. Text descriptions are fine for me, but I appreciate posting the video if folks want to validate.

Strongest and most based and tradpilled russian orthodox warrior
Russia truly defending the world from globohomo by having its manly trad men of values fuck each other all the time
Only weak sissy faggots have sex with women.
 
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Russia truly defending the world from globohomo by having its manly trad men of values fuck each other all the time

In country infested by HIV-givers it is logic to only put your dick in someones mouth (smaller chances of transition in most cases). At the end of the day it didn't matter what was in panties attached to such mouth.

Another win of ruzzia.
 
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Good morning bakmut still holds, anyways I saw a video of a wagner CEO pregozin sperging to russian MOD about the shortage of ammo for his troops and if they don't get any it chould lead to a front collapse at best local at worst straight at russian border and with chances of even crimia being threatened.

Sure that's a bit of copium but aperanly bakmut did its job wonderfully due it was supposed to hold for a week tops to slow down russian offense, now if rumors are true that at spring ukies launch a counteroffence to retake metiopul we chould atcualy see the collapse of russian army as a structure collapse in ukrane
 
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