Microsoft is fucking butthurt no one wants Windows 11 so they're stopping the sale of Windows 10 licenses this month

[The Ugly One]

He mentioned Windows S where Microsoft tried this already and they will be doing it again once they work out the kinks.

It's still around. And so what? What you're describing is just an iPad with a keyboard, except Microsoft's general shittiness instead of Apple's general sexiness. Or it's an Xbox with a shitty GPU. Point is, these devices already exist, and they're not destroying computing. If it were feasible to abolish the general-purpose computer, Apple would have already dumped OSX and replaced it with iOS Desktop or something.

The reply was about your remark on data breaches where TPM won't have any impact based on current industry practice. Breaches don't come from stolen encrypted drives.

Current industry practice is to store the drive keys in the TPM. It's not a new thing. The example I had in mind was throwing away an old hard drive or losing an external backup drive. It's rare, but real. The other, and much more relevant, example is when your virtual drive gets stolen from cloud storage. In either case, TPM prevents brute-force password attacks.

Meanwhile, neither you nor anyone else has managed to come up with a single actual use case where being unable to disable TPM is stopping a Windows 11 Home user from doing something useful. The best we've got is that at some point, computers that are more than 10 years old will be unable to run brand-new software or install brand-new peripherals, which is hardly a new problem in computing or unique to TPM.

 

[Aidan]

If that's the case, then I guess I struggle to care that much.

The mere existence of a product I wouldn't like just doesn't have any relevance to me. And the fact that it's (as well as UWP and various related things) making so few inroads with consumers that I've never seen it in the wild makes it even less threatening.

It hasn't impacted you and likely never will because you're a technical user who can get around it. Microsoft is clearly building a Windows environment inspired by Apple and doing a terrible job of it.

It's still around. And so what? What you're describing is just an iPad with a keyboard, except Microsoft's general shittiness instead of Apple's general sexiness. Or it's an Xbox with a shitty GPU. Point is, these devices already exist, and they're not destroying computing. If it were feasible to abolish the general-purpose computer, Apple would have already dumped OSX and replaced it with iOS Desktop or something.

Frankly, you're deepthroating Microsoft at this point and I don't know why. People hate these things and begrudgingly find themselves putting up with it because they don't know how not to.

Current industry practice is to store the drive keys in the TPM. It's not a new thing. The example I had in mind was throwing away an old hard drive or losing an external backup drive. It's rare, but real. The other, and much more relevant, example is when your virtual drive gets stolen from cloud storage. In either case, TPM prevents brute-force password attacks.

You brought up breaches with regard to TPM when it's not really relevant. You're shifting the goal posts because you don't want to have said something wrong.

Spoiler: Context

The main reason for a TPM is so that encrypted data that gets stolen from your computer can't be decrypted. For example, if you use Bitlocker with TPM, if you lose the drive, or the image gets stolen somehow, you're safe. Hardly "maliciously or viciously anti-consumer."

This is retarded. If you lose a drive and it's encrypted, you're safe anyway. If someone has physical access to your computer to image the thing, you're fucked anyway.

Very few data breaches involve physical access to the machine. And lots of them involve targets with weak passwords.

Are you fucking retarded? TPM doesn't protect shit if the machine is running and the data is unencrypted.

In short, you refer to the basic functionality of a TPM then for some reason act like you were talking about data breaches where TPM doesn't matter due to how data breaches play out. The data isn't encrypted.

Meanwhile, neither you nor anyone else has managed to come up with a single actual use case where being unable to disable TPM is stopping a Windows 11 Home user from doing something useful. The best we've got is that at some point, computers that are more than 10 years old will be unable to run brand-new software or install brand-new peripherals, which is hardly a new problem in computing or unique to TPM.

It's not worth talking about this topic with you because you don't want to discuss, you want to browbeat. There are concerns people have with regard to the Microsoft TPM push but nothing to be gained from discussing them with you in this thread.

You need to chill out.

-----
I don't think anyone says TPM 2.0 is inherently bad technology. Microsoft's ulterior motives and the implications of widespread use are where concerns lie. @Kosher Dill covered this well enough.

 

[Matt Damon]

Microsoft is clearly building a Windows environment inspired by Apple and doing a terrible job of it.

Accidentally keeping the PC landscape open by sheer incompetence. It doesn't get any more Microsoft than that.

 

[HarblMcDavid]

...
If you want a bespoke nigger-rigged machine with all the classic vulnerabilities of a mid-2000s PC, cracked copies of Windows XP are easy to come by. You're probably using Slackware anyway.

A bespoke nigger rigged machine is the entire point of building your own computer.

But muh industry, okay, again industry has to corral mongoloids as well as figure out how they fucked their shit up, but the fact there's a way to disable the requirement created by the very nigger-riggers this annoys tells me Microsoft could put a pre-filled checkbox in the installer with a trivial amount of work without needing to refactor the entire consumer OS.

Oh no, there's "no reason". We're having this conversation and you know I'm not the only one. There's your reason. Goodwill with the consumer.

A token fucking gesture keep the nigger riggers who still grudgingly use ever shittier OSes since the Apex of Windows 7 because of the gaming landscape. It's the very least they could do.

 

[The Ugly One]

Frankly, you're deepthroating Microsoft at this point and I don't know why. People hate these things and begrudgingly find themselves putting up with it because they don't know how not to.

"People" do not hate Xboxes and iPads. They're popular products. There are a handful of nerds who wish they could buy an Xbox and install Linux on it, but most people don't care.

You brought up breaches with regard to TPM when it's not really relevant. You're shifting the goal posts because you don't want to have said something wrong...

In short, you refer to the basic functionality of a TPM then for some reason act like you were talking about data breaches where TPM doesn't matter due to how data breaches play out. The data isn't encrypted.

I brought up 2 breaches where TPM is relevant. If you lose an encrypted drive and aren't physically securing the key, the key is stored on the drive itself, and the password decrypts the key, and thus the drive. And if somebody steals an encrypted image hosted somewhere, it's still encrypted. Those are the two general cases I had in mind. Without TPM or some equivalent, both cases are fucked if the drive is secured with p@ssw0rd123. I apparently did not make it clear enough that I was talking about some kind of hosted image, not a 1337 h4xx0r logging into your machine while it's live and imaging your disk.

I don't think anyone says TPM 2.0 is inherently bad technology. Microsoft's ulterior motives and the implications of widespread use are where concerns lie. @Kosher Dill covered this well enough.

His post was a mix of speculative fiction and things that he didn't realize have been around for decades and have not done any harm. The irony here is that one of Microsoft's actual motives for driving TPM use is centered on something I find extremely annoying, the drive to Cloud Everything, but you're too wrapped up in speculation about Microsoft shutting down Steam or forcing Grandma to buy a new netbook. The drive to cloud means security can't be optional any more.

A bespoke nigger rigged machine is the entire point of building your own computer.

But muh industry, okay, again industry has to corral mongoloids as well as figure out how they fucked their shit up, but the fact there's a way to disable the requirement created by the very nigger-riggers this annoys tells me Microsoft could put a pre-filled checkbox in the installer with a trivial amount of work without needing to refactor the entire consumer OS.

Oh no, there's "no reason". We're having this conversation and you know I'm not the only one. There's your reason. Goodwill with the consumer.

A token fucking gesture keep the nigger riggers who still grudgingly use ever shittier OSes since the Apex of Windows 7 because of the gaming landscape. It's the very least they could do.

Same question I keep asking - what is it you do with a computer that TPM breaks?

 

[Pissmaster]

Frankly, you're deepthroating Microsoft at this point and I don't know why. People hate these things and begrudgingly find themselves putting up with it because they don't know how not to.

They're computers for people who aren't computer people. I'd imagine they see them the way I see my microwave and air fryer - things I'm grateful to have because I don't know much about cooking, never desired to become a chef, but they still get done what I need them to do.

 

[Aidan]

They're computers for people who aren't computer people. I'd imagine they see them the way I see my microwave and air fryer - things I'm grateful to have because I don't know much about cooking, never desired to become a chef, but they still get done what I need them to do.

That's probably the idea but Microsoft isn't Apple and people who use Windows aren't used to it at all because Windows has never worked that way.

 

[Puff]

Linux fags making me want to spend money on windows. I might just do it.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

I brought up 2 breaches where TPM is relevant. If you lose an encrypted drive and aren't physically securing the key, the key is stored on the drive itself, and the password decrypts the key, and thus the drive. And if somebody steals an encrypted image hosted somewhere, it's still encrypted. Those are the two general cases I had in mind. Without TPM or some equivalent, both cases are fucked if the drive is secured with p@ssw0rd123. I apparently did not make it clear enough that I was talking about some kind of hosted image, not a 1337 h4xx0r logging into your machine while it's live and imaging your disk.

You cited 'breaches' where you're already breached if you're stupid enough to use them.

Only retards would use a Microsoft password manager like 'OneDrive Vault'. That's literally putting your data directly into the hands of the zionist enemies of mankind, the CIA and Mossad. A TPM doesn't 'protect' that data.

 

[The Ugly One]

You cited 'breaches' where you're already breached if you're stupid enough to use them.

Only retards would use a Microsoft password manager like 'OneDrive Vault'.

OneDrive Vault isn't a password manager. It's an encrypted virtual drive. You know, I'm amazed at just how little the Linux nerds in this thread actually know about computers.

That's literally putting your data directly into the hands of the zionist enemies of mankind, the CIA and Mossad. A TPM doesn't 'protect' that data.

I'm pretty sure the Jews know how to get hentai without stealing it from your vault.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

OneDrive Vault isn't a password manager. It's an encrypted virtual drive. You know, I'm amazed at just how little the Linux nerds in this thread actually know about computers.

I'm pretty sure the Jews know how to get hentai without stealing it from your vault.

So what you're admitting is that any Microsoft use of TPM is worthless.

 

[Pissmaster]

In honor of @byuu's passing, we should all band together and bully everyone who installs Windows on their Steam Decks, because that is some serious degeneracy.

 

[Hard Toothbrush]

In honor of @byuu's passing, we should all band together and bully everyone who installs Windows on their Steam Decks, because that is some serious degeneracy.

Real chads install TempleOS on their Steam Decks.

 

[Never Scored]

OneDrive Vault isn't a password manager. It's an encrypted virtual drive. You know, I'm amazed at just how little the Linux nerds in this thread actually know about computers.

Come on now, not knowing the gay little name Microsoft puts on something for marketing purposes isn't the same as not knowing about computers. Don't be a retard like @Samuel Hyde here.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

In honor of @byuu's passing, we should all band together and bully everyone who installs Windows on their Steam Decks, because that is some serious degeneracy.

Who in the name of Allah would do something like this? Holy shit.'

You know, having read through the thread I can't help but notice a fundamental difference in the Linux advocates and Windows apologists.

Linux people are constantly demanding the user should know more, improve themselves and apply what they learn to the machine they use. They should be the ones making the final decisions and choosing how things are done, even if it makes it more work for them.

Windows meanwhile keep deferring back to the idea the computer should just work. That expecting users and final customers to improve is a complete crapshoot and instead the software should just work as expected and that's it.. Compatibility, simplicity and functionality should come first.

Quite interesting distinction.

 

[White Devil]

In honor of @byuu's passing, we should all band together and bully everyone who installs Windows on their Steam Decks, because that is some serious degeneracy.

I feel the ban was bullshit but still laughed.

 

[Aidan]

Who in the name of Allah would do something like this? Holy shit.'

You know, having read through the thread I can't help but notice a fundamental difference in the Linux advocates and Windows apologists.

Linux people are constantly demanding the user should know more, improve themselves and apply what they learn to the machine they use. They should be the ones making the final decisions and choosing how things are done, even if it makes it more work for them.

Windows meanwhile keep deferring back to the idea the computer should just work. That expecting users and final customers to improve is a complete crapshoot and instead the software should just work as expected and that's it.. Compatibility, simplicity and functionality should come first.

Quite interesting distinction.

Most people really do not give a shit about their computer just like they don't give a shit about their car, it just needs to work. If it doesn't work, you pay some professional to make it work or get a new one.

For there to ever be a Year of the Linux Desktop (which is 2023, I feel it) then you need a distro that is intuitive enough for people to migrate to, has most of the software readily accessible and works without issue on most of whatever people are buying. Nowadays that'd be laptops.
One major fault with linux use on laptops is battery power, it requires tweaking to get the battery power where people expect it to be and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

---
A zoomer in a chat I was lurking in not too long ago was asking for help with getting a new laptop with a budget of $100. People said he could get a chromebook and an irl friend of his said he could repurpose his original laptop or buy an old thinkpad which he'd help with.
No options were acceptable and he said he'd rather go without a laptop entirely if he couldn't use Windows since he needed Microsoft Word for school. As far as I know he never ended up getting a new laptop and kept insisting he needed Word and Powerpoint for his classes.

I found it funny how adamant a young person was about needing a Windows computer for Word and Powerpoint of all things, the way he talked it was like Solidworks or something. That said, he is probably how most people are with whatever their OS of choice is.

 

[White Devil]

A zoomer in a chat I was lurking in not too long ago was asking for help with getting a new laptop with a budget of $100. People said he could get a chromebook and an irl friend of his said he could repurpose his original laptop or buy an old thinkpad which he'd help with.
No options were acceptable and he said he'd rather go without a laptop entirely if he couldn't use Windows since he needed Microsoft Word for school. As far as I know he never ended up getting a new laptop and kept insisting he needed Word and Powerpoint for his classes.

I found it funny how adamant a young person was about needing a Windows computer for Word and Powerpoint of all things, the way he talked it was like Solidworks or something. That said, he is probably how most people are with whatever their OS of choice is.

So when I was in high school, in the early 2000s, we had an elective class called Business Technology. This class *only* taught the Microsoft Office suite, i.e. Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.

I can't imagine this has changed in 20 years because even now when I see the odd office job listing, they want proficiency in the Microsoft Office suite.

 

[Aidan]

So when I was in high school, in the early 2000s, we had an elective class called Business Technology. This class *only* taught the Microsoft Office suite, i.e. Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.

I can't imagine this has changed in 20 years because even now when I see the odd office job listing, they want proficiency in the Microsoft Office suite.

He's in college, I'm not sure what major or classes. I highly doubt he needs Office but I know professors probably say to use it since that's what they will open up the files in.
When I was in middle and high school we got taught to use MS Office but I made sure to get everything done on school computers, my family has probably never paid for Office to this day and I didn't have it until I stole it in high school. Nowadays a lot of kids I've seen have Chromebooks but MS Office can be accessed in the browser so perhaps that's what they do.

I wish we were taught Excel properly as a kid because that's the one that can do a lot of work for people and jobs always appreciate an "excel wizard."

Younger kiwis chiming in on more modern public school computing setups with regard to Windows would be informative. My high school briefly trialed Mac, presumably as part of an Apple initiative, but it failed miserably.
I wonder if high schools can even assume people have Windows at home these days since some families are all in on Apple. Some people do everything on their phones and don't even have a computer at home.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

I find that fascinating because Linux does work out of the box on the simpler distros perfectly fine, especially for most basic shit normies do of merely browsing the web. I know this because my mom got along with Mint perfectly fine. I got the old laptop of hers, put Mint with XFCE, and she was away. The only thing I had to actually teach her was not related to Linux at all but related to her job which she would have had to learn even if it had been running windows (remote access of a computer).

The Office suite is a good point in that most business settings are completely tied to the MS ecosystem so it makes some sense but I cannot help but feel most zoomers are not learning it. Most of the things asked from people in office settings nowadays are pretty basic typing and such, though there are types and positions that want Office proficiency and Excel mastery. I actually thought Office had a version for Linux but that is the macOS one. The entire issue of "you have to send the files to the teacher to open it on his MS school PC" is literally a case of taking 0.2 seconds to choose to save the shit you do as .docx and .pptx.

It might be my own bias but it sounds to me that this zoomer was so insistent on Word and PowerPoint because he simply did not want to bother considering much less learning any of the alternatives at all. I say this mostly because of the focusing on PowerPoint. I cannot think of anyone who actually uses it nowadays outside school project (though it also applies for university ones) as every job I have had on the last 10 years I never even saw it be mentioned. If he had said "Excel" that would have made a lot more sense to me and would sound like a actual requirement.

So yeah I am forced to pull the smug neckbeard Linux user stereotype and say that most normies are literally sheep who cannot be bothered to lift a finger to even try. If I was feeling particularly autistic I would go on a tangent of how this seems to be a part of a larger issue with society itself of trading people's entire autonomy and self-preservation for convenience but I digress.